What's the best non-Western country to live in?

[JohnDoeBigBaller]

cambodia? really?

under developed is putting it mildly, place was devastated by civil wars for decades and is nowhere near close to recovering, the infrastructure is terrible, and who said the food is better than vietnamese?

the girls are ok looking but less attractive than viets..... cambodia is the slums of southeast asia, it is good because the visa is easy and its very cheap, but as far as livability goes its near the bottom of the list

yea it's not as bad, at least Siem Reap. Siem Reap is a very clean city and has a lot of modern stuff. The women's faces are ugly but their bodies are smoking hot. I only mention it because of how easy it is to get and maintain a visa. Sihanoukville is pretty cool too, it's a chilled out beach city in the south.

Phnom Penh is over crowded and pretty disgusting.

[xiongmao]

So now I'm in Zhejiang Province China. It's very modern here, and reasonably clean. Wealth pours out of Shanghai into the surrounding cities. The cities are growing faster than I can visit the new neighbourhoods.

The ladies are beautiful here, although maybe they're not quite as friendly as they were in Guangdong.

Also there aren't so many people from other parts of China.

I think the countryside is beautiful here, but I've not done any travelling yet.

On the downside it's not that cheap here. And there aren't quite as many street vendors/hawkers and general chaos that was rife in Guangzhou.

The mosquitos are here. They seem to have learnt how to squeeze through the window mosquito grills.

[Yohan]

yea it's not as bad, at least Siem Reap. Siem Reap is a very clean city and has a lot of modern stuff. The women's faces are ugly but their bodies are smoking hot. I only mention it because of how easy it is to get and maintain a visa. Sihanoukville is pretty cool too, it's a chilled out beach city in the south.
Phnom Penh is over crowded and pretty disgusting.

Cambodia is not that bad and an interesting place if you want to see 'something different' for a short time.

It's a small country, not so many people living there, it's OK to travel around for one week or two, at least for me, but after I prefer to cross the border again to Thailand.

In Thailand I can live 1 month or 2 months or even longer, but not in Cambodia.

[MoreMinerals]

I would not suggest Japan for a number of reasons. It's interesting how Japan is the Asian country that Westerners seem to have a fetish for. I've never seen the same reception towards China, Viet Nam, etc. Yet the majority of Westerners are quite ignorant about the realities of living in Japan:
1. If you are a deep, introverted, feeling type, the societal pressure in Japan will make you feel extremely alienated. The Japanese as a whole tend to place a lot of emphasis on conformity to the group, on social niceties and rules, and on rituals. These things are the bane of my (textbook INFP) existence. I hate being told what to do, what to think, what to feel just because everyone else is that way. I maintain a general politeness but I won't go out of my way just to make someone feel like a god or goddess, especially if I despise them. If you work in Japan, you will be EXPECTED to attend drinking parties with your superiors and co-workers. It's an unwritten rule. I'm not a fan of drinking, I'm not a fan of most social gatherings, I'm not a fan of small talk, and I'm not a fan of hierarchy.

2. The Japanese are among the most workaholic / studyaholic people on earth. There's a reason why their suicide rates are so high. I'm the complete opposite of what Japanese society expects out of a guy. I'm not a fan of work (generally speaking) for the sake of $$, I despise the very concept of something so 'made-up' like the monetary system. I heard that if you're a family-oriented guy in Japan, which I am, and a guy who likes to enjoy live at a slow and relaxed pace (ALSO ME), you'll be viewed as the scourge of a society that paces extremely high importance on the cardinal sin known as productivity AND devoting your life to your company. Hell, women will look DOWN on you for being a family-oriented man. If you return home early every day, thinking that your wife and kids will be happy that you're trying to spend more time with them, your wife may not appreciate you but think you're useless / not well-respected. If you get invited to drinking parties by co-workers and your superiors all the time, your wife will think you have status. The Japanese education system is a training ground for obedient, subservient, corporate drones, though this applies to all formal education systems. It's an extremely high-stakes system where a couple of tests and exams may seal your fate. It's dehumanizing and merciless.

3. Japan has extremely high living costs. Your average salaryman struggles, having to earn the equivalent of like two or three salaries. You can't live comfortably as an English teacher in Japan, unlike in China / VN. Thinking about starting a business? It's almost IMPOSSIBLE for a foreigner.

4. Japanese society as a whole, due to #2 and #3, is in an extremely unhealthy condition. It has very low birth rates typical of developed Asian nations and of course Western nations, indicating a lack of prioritization in love, marriage, and family. The population is rapidly ageing and the youth aren't starting families. Heck, both genders are displaying a lack of interest in sex and relationships altogether. The women look for capable providers (and guys with status) above all, but many of the men simply don't make the cut. That's why the 'herbivore male' phenomenon is so prevalent, and I really can't blame them. In my opinion it's a better response than just giving in to the system and being enslaved for life, while your wife may think you're never 'good' enough. Now I'm sort of into anime and I'm a gamer, but whoa, dating sims as a substitute for real romantic relationships is just f***ed up. These strange obsessions adopted by male youth in Japan say loads about the circumstances they are living in, more than them as individuals.

5. I can appreciate East Asian beauty in general, but i don't like how Japanese females invest so much into cosmetics even at young ages (and increasingly young). It's fake, vain, and makes them look silly. I especially can't stand heavy makeup with lots of powder, cream, mascara, and eyeliner etc. Oh, and also clothes and handbags. It's also a thing of conformity, because the Japanese and Koreans place A LOT of importance on public image. It's so unnecessary and utterly detestable in my opinion. On the other hand, I can still find a number of women in mainland China who wear little or no makeup, and they are nowhere NEAR ugly by my standards. They seem to be a lot safer in their own skin compared to the Japanese. Unfortunately, even China is changing in this regard. If you haven't watched the SK-II commercial on leftover Chinese bitches, go do it. Just make sure you are near a toilet, as it will make you puke.

6. Japanese females tend to be more sexually experienced at younger ages. It may be a good thing if you're just looking for physical pleasure, but there's the phenomenon of schoolgirls going out with older men and offering their bodies in exchange for #5. It's unacceptable to me. Due to Japanese couples being essentially separated after marriage (because the man is usually not home), the women may initiate divorces after a while (or into middle age) and go on to pursue their own desires.



These are some of my reasons why Japan isn't a good choice. I do like Japan for some of its cultural offerings, cuisine, and I do appreciate their women at a physical level, but the numerous extremities and rigidity of a culture whose adherents are still warrior-like in many ways, and the general unhealthy state of Japanese society are huge turn-offs for me. Modern Japan is, for lack of better words, f***ing strange. It's no longer Eastern nor Western, but a decaying entity that has incorporated the worst of both (the same can be said of Singapore, Korea, Taiwan etc.). It is confused, repressive, and rapidly in deterioration. I used to fantasize about living in Japan and marrying a Japanese woman, but not anymore.

I'm an introverted type that feels deeply, that desires a simple and peaceful life, that refuses to be bound by dogma and expectations. I am what I am. What Japan as a nation believes to be right, is a physical and spiritual death sentence to me and those like me. Many people marvel at how polite the Japanese are, and how clean and orderly Japan is as a country. I know that these aspects are extremely superficial, and are no way indicative of a nation possessing real soul. In fact, these aspects may very well point to the opposite. Those who seem polite may often be the most dull, shallow, repressed, and SOULLESS individuals. I don't like such meekness. There's a difference between being gentle and soulful, and being meek as a cover-up for the lack of substance, thought, and soul within. Like Winston, I've also seen the same kind of meekness in a lot of Taiwanese. It is, quite frankly, annoying. I've noticed that this kind of person is actually extremely dogmatic and judgmental due to their conditioning. Their superficial kind of politeness, heck even their weak and shaky voices make me extremely uncomfortable. People pleasers. I've gotten out of that stage long ago.

Thanks, sounds like Japan is your typical Western country, unfortunately....

Japan is way too modern, man. What you want is a more traditional culture. So choose South Korea or Taiwan over Japan. Choose Cambodia or Vietnam over Thailand.

It's also much easier to get visas for the later-mentioned countries.

I've heard a lot of good things about Vietnam. I wonder why no one has mentioned Indonesia?

I can only comment about Japan, Philippines, Thailand, Cambodia and some other countries in this region.
I am living in Japan, have my second home in Thailand and a fosterdaughter in Philippines.

About myself, Japan is the No. 1 place, with good income, good health insurance, low criminality, clean streets, no tips - but this country is really not for everybody, as already explained by another member of this forum. I am living in Tokyo since about 40 years.

I would say it depends on the individual, if you are still young and have to work for a living, any low-cost country cannot be not recommended, you will face problems to earn money. Better try Japan, South Korea, Taiwan, Singapore - about jobs, it depends on your qualification.

Some members will surely recommend China too.

If you are financially secure for example with a retirement allowance, you might consider some place like Philippines or Thailand/Cambodia.

Malaysia might be a good choice for retirement, but it is not that cheap if you consider long-stay and to buy your own home.

What is your present situation, how old are you, how is your financial situation, what is your educational background?

Please tell us more about yourself.

About the choice of countries maybe you should create something like an Excel sheet, listing the countries and what they offer like easy visa, good pay, cheap entertainment with girls, language issues, possible to buy your own rooms as a foreigner etc.

You will see, there is not even one country which will fulfill all criteria for you, there is always something 'missing'...

I'm a millennial and an online entrepreneur. Thanks for the suggestions. Again, I wonder why no one has mentioned Indonesia....

cambodia? really?

under developed is putting it mildly, place was devastated by civil wars for decades and is nowhere near close to recovering, the infrastructure is terrible, and who said the food is better than vietnamese?

the girls are ok looking but less attractive than viets..... cambodia is the slums of southeast asia, it is good because the visa is easy and its very cheap, but as far as livability goes its near the bottom of the list

yea it's not as bad, at least Siem Reap. Siem Reap is a very clean city and has a lot of modern stuff. The women's faces are ugly but their bodies are smoking hot. I only mention it because of how easy it is to get and maintain a visa. Sihanoukville is pretty cool too, it's a chilled out beach city in the south.

Phnom Penh is over crowded and pretty disgusting.

Thanks

yea it's not as bad, at least Siem Reap. Siem Reap is a very clean city and has a lot of modern stuff. The women's faces are ugly but their bodies are smoking hot. I only mention it because of how easy it is to get and maintain a visa. Sihanoukville is pretty cool too, it's a chilled out beach city in the south.
Phnom Penh is over crowded and pretty disgusting.

Cambodia is not that bad and an interesting place if you want to see 'something different' for a short time.

It's a small country, not so many people living there, it's OK to travel around for one week or two, at least for me, but after I prefer to cross the border again to Thailand.

In Thailand I can live 1 month or 2 months or even longer, but not in Cambodia.

What's your favorite city in Thailand? Do you know of any nice, somewhat modern cities that aren't too touristy?

[Jonny Law]

yea it's not as bad, at least Siem Reap. Siem Reap is a very clean city and has a lot of modern stuff. The women's faces are ugly but their bodies are smoking hot. I only mention it because of how easy it is to get and maintain a visa. Sihanoukville is pretty cool too, it's a chilled out beach city in the south.
Phnom Penh is over crowded and pretty disgusting.

Cambodia is not that bad and an interesting place if you want to see 'something different' for a short time.

It's a small country, not so many people living there, it's OK to travel around for one week or two, at least for me, but after I prefer to cross the border again to Thailand.

In Thailand I can live 1 month or 2 months or even longer, but not in Cambodia.

God Bless Khmer Ladies!
Cambodian ladies even make fishing SEXY!
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9TpqO0-JXSw

[nomadphilippines]

cambodia? really?

under developed is putting it mildly, place was devastated by civil wars for decades and is nowhere near close to recovering, the infrastructure is terrible, and who said the food is better than vietnamese?

the girls are ok looking but less attractive than viets..... cambodia is the slums of southeast asia, it is good because the visa is easy and its very cheap, but as far as livability goes its near the bottom of the list

yea it's not as bad, at least Siem Reap. Siem Reap is a very clean city and has a lot of modern stuff. The women's faces are ugly but their bodies are smoking hot. I only mention it because of how easy it is to get and maintain a visa. Sihanoukville is pretty cool too, it's a chilled out beach city in the south.

Phnom Penh is over crowded and pretty disgusting.

maybe they have fixed it by now but last i knew sihanoukville would be without power for a few hours a day a few days a week and had a long period of time with no running water.... also no quality medical attention within hours

the easy visa and cost of living are nice, but the total package isn't

[nomadphilippines]

cambodia? really?

under developed is putting it mildly, place was devastated by civil wars for decades and is nowhere near close to recovering, the infrastructure is terrible, and who said the food is better than vietnamese?

the girls are ok looking but less attractive than viets..... cambodia is the slums of southeast asia, it is good because the visa is easy and its very cheap, but as far as livability goes its near the bottom of the list

yea it's not as bad, at least Siem Reap. Siem Reap is a very clean city and has a lot of modern stuff. The women's faces are ugly but their bodies are smoking hot. I only mention it because of how easy it is to get and maintain a visa. Sihanoukville is pretty cool too, it's a chilled out beach city in the south.

Phnom Penh is over crowded and pretty disgusting.

maybe they have fixed it by now but last i knew sihanoukville would be without power for a few hours a day a few days a week and had a long period of time with no running water.... also no quality medical attention within hours

the easy visa and cost of living are nice, but the total package isn't

[Jonny Law]

cambodia? really?

under developed is putting it mildly, place was devastated by civil wars for decades and is nowhere near close to recovering, the infrastructure is terrible, and who said the food is better than vietnamese?

the girls are ok looking but less attractive than viets..... cambodia is the slums of southeast asia, it is good because the visa is easy and its very cheap, but as far as livability goes its near the bottom of the list

yea it's not as bad, at least Siem Reap. Siem Reap is a very clean city and has a lot of modern stuff. The women's faces are ugly but their bodies are smoking hot. I only mention it because of how easy it is to get and maintain a visa. Sihanoukville is pretty cool too, it's a chilled out beach city in the south.

Phnom Penh is over crowded and pretty disgusting.

maybe they have fixed it by now but last i knew sihanoukville would be without power for a few hours a day a few days a week and had a long period of time with no running water.... also no quality medical attention within hours

the easy visa and cost of living are nice, but the total package isn't

"no running water"
Have a bucket of water ready you f***ing p***y!

"no quality medical attention within hours"
If you need medical attention you are a p***y and you should be ashamed of yourself.
In the US of Gay if you need medical attention you go bankrupt!
Furthermore, in the US of Gay they cannot cure anything they just take your money because you are a stupid fool!

[Bao3niang]

Avoid developed NE Asia and Singapore. These places tend to be very Westernized / materialistic / careerist / feminist.

It's not easy to just move to the Philippines for most foreigners. It would take time and connections before you can permanently relocate there.

Indonesia and Malaysia are heavily Muslim. Not my cup of tea. If you do English teaching Indonesia would be easier, as English has official status in Malaysia which means the entry barrier to teaching is set higher.

Thailand's really hit-or-miss. If you're the easygoing type that can put up with intellectual simplicity and many undesirable cultural / practical elements, it would be a better fit than if you were someone who tends to be intellectually / philosophically stimulated with a low tolerance for crap and drama (I'm the latter).

Viet Nam is definitely the most China-ish country in all of SE Asia. It has a combination of NE Asian and SE Asian traits. Vietnamese, especially the youth, tend to be quite worldly. From my conversations with them they definitely give off a Chinese kind of vibe, but aren't entirely the same. They also tend to be more warrior-like than most other SE Asian cultures, having fought off numerous invasions. It's a no-bullshit mentality that I admire. It's also not that difficult to find English teaching positions in Viet Nam, due to the high demand for teachers.

Cambodia, Burma, and Laos, I'm not so sure. I don't know any expats who's living or has lived in those countries. However, my adoptive dad's traveled to Cambodia and Laos and quite liked it there, due to the peace and simplicity. He felt that the people were genuinely happy. All three nations have a strong Buddhist influence, but my adoptive dad sensed a kind of devotion to the faith among Cambodians and Laotians that's perhaps more natural and authentic than what Thais subscribe to.

Then there's mainland China. Mainland China, simply put, isn't as easily accessible to foreigners when compared to a number of SE Asian countries and developed NE Asia. It's a country with a lot more depth, that really takes time and effort to understand and immerse yourself into. If you as a foreigner (at least a white one) think you can 'have it easy' in many ways when you're in SE Asia, China will be a splash of cold water on your face when you realize that you'll actually need EFFORT to truly adapt and 'sink in', so to speak. However, once you've truly made China your home (something the vast majority of foreigners fail to achieve), there's no going back. China has such a long history and rich culture, with unique ways of doing many things. It has great internal diversity, with major differences between provinces and regions. There's the well-known North-South comparison, and many others. One thing I really like about China is the 'organized chaos', a state of things that seems chaotic and undesirable to your average narrow-minded Anglosphere Westerner, but one that marches to the beat of its own drum and is surprisingly progressive / natural. A good example would be how the informal economy thrives in China, whereas everything in the Anglo-Saxon West is subjected to heavy regulation and restrictions. China's also not politically correct like the West, or even its developed NE Asian counterparts. Having praised China for retaining a much more natural state of society, I do have to mention that modern China has its fair share of complexities. Almost all of it comes from the rapid influx of capitalistic values in the past 30-35 years. I'm attracted to mainland women in general, technically they aren't even 'foreign' women for me. As I've mentioned in a previous post, whether you're a Chinese or a foreign man, it's imperative that you act fast as the women are rapidly becoming spoiled goods.

I don't know anything about the Middle East and Africa, and my interest in those places is exactly 0%.

I don't know much about Eastern Europe and I'm not interested, so I have no authority to comment.

[xiongmao]

I'm enjoying East China, but it's not as chaotic nor interesting as Guangzhou.

There are tonnes of jobs here and a lot of private tuition (but I can't really be bothered with that).

The food quality is better here. Even my school's canteen food is edible, which is more than could be said of my school in Guangzhou. It's also just 2RMB a meal. If you wanted to travel the world and save 99% of your wages, this is how to do it!!!

It's also less polluted here, except on certain days when the Shanghai smog cloud blows South.

On the downside dating has been rubbish so far. And the students have a Western style sense of entitlement while being super lazy in class. That doesn't bode well for the future.

[Winston]

Those who seem polite may often be the most dull, shallow, repressed, and SOULLESS individuals. I don't like such meekness. There's a difference between being gentle and soulful, and being meek as a cover-up for the lack of substance, thought, and soul within. Like Winston, I've also seen the same kind of meekness in a lot of Taiwanese. It is, quite frankly, annoying. I've noticed that this kind of person is actually extremely dogmatic and judgmental due to their conditioning. Their superficial kind of politeness, heck even their weak and shaky voices make me extremely uncomfortable. People pleasers. I've gotten out of that stage long ago.

Thats a brilliant point. You mentioned that in the WeChat group too. Very spot on.

It makes me uncomfortable as well when taiwanese act polite on the ouside in a fake forced way, while underneath their interior personality is super rigid, stern, strict, overly serious, judgemental, self hating, and unable to enjoy life or have fun, all of which rubs off on you. Thus you cannot relax, be yourself or have fun around them.

It feels toxic and makes me uncomfortable, because underneath the polite exterior is a lot of negative energy that rubs me the wrong way and makes me wonder WTF is wrong with these people? Geez. They seem so inhuman and abnormal.

You are right that such fake politeness seems to be a cover. If you have positive good qualities, why repress yourself? Why have a fake mask? I can be polite without being fake. Yet they cant. Makes me wonder why.

But not all Taiwanese are polite. There are many rednecks and bumpkins who are rude and crude and act like f***ed up troglodytes. You see them all the time in southern taiwan like in chiayi where my parents live. They are not polite at all. They cut you off in traffic and drive like pricks. My dad complains about them all the time. Ive flipped them off on a number of occasions. I wouldnt mind kicking their asses. Taiwanese piss me off so much. I can barely stand them and have nothing but disdain for them. Everything they are personality wise is revolting and disgusting to me. I swear. Why did God make such horrible qualities in people? They give Asia a bad name.

[Bao3niang]

You mentioned the redneck kind of Taiwanese. Now those can be a pain to deal with, just as much as the superficial and repressed kind. Anyway. This past weekend I met my aunt at a Taiwanese restaurant called Pearl Castle, located in Richmond Centre. As I sat at the table waiting for her to arrive, there was a Taiwanese mum who looked to be in her late 50s chatting with her friend. They sat at the table next to mine. The mum was telling her friend how her 20-something son went to China and married a mainland Chinese woman, settling down in a city / town with a slower pace of life. The mum was bitching to her friend about how critical she was of her son's life decisions, which in my opinion, makes him A LOT wiser than his mum. The mum definitely gave off your typical overseas Chinese / Asian 'tiger parent' kind of vibe, a way of raising your children that puts their happiness at low priority, if happiness even makes it into the list of priorities. I'm pretty much an outcast among overseas Chinese due to the way I am, and I really feel this mutual repulsion where I don't want to be near them for too long, and in their view, I'm the sum of everything broken and abnormal. There's also an increasing number of Anglophiles in China, who glamorize the West. The women who behave this way make me want to puke. If you are teaching English in China / Asia or have taught English in Asia, you'll get what I'm saying.

For a little on my own upbringing, my parents divorced when I was seven, and I was brought up by my mum and the relatives on her side. Long story short, they put me through a lot of emotional and psychological abuse of the feminist kind. They're messed up themselves, fraught with conflict, and they were messed up in trying to raise a child. My mum was far from your typical 'strict' overseas / careerist Chinese parent, in fact, she was negligent in a number of ways. However, when she TRIED to give a half-assed attempt at taking care of my well-being, she had absolutely no idea how to do it. There was constant belittling, threatening, criticizing, and...... it was downright ugly. This is not to say my biological dad's a good person and someone I can get along with. Sure he's less cruel, but he is calculating, repulsive, and petty in his own ways. He's from more of a rural background, being born in a county / satellite town near Chongqing. My mum's side are from the city, and in the 80s and 90s made quite a lot of money through less-than-acceptable means. Let's just say exploitative. I'm nothing like them. My dad, when he met my mum, wanted my mum's relatives to lend him a sum of money so he could start his own business. I don't know what exactly he wanted to do, and at this point I don't care. This shows that he was also a petty and materialistic kind of person, full of himself. Birds of a feather, flock together after all. Somewhere there has to be a set of similarities. My parents never really loved each other, they never had a real bond. I was born before they got married, and their marriage was only because of me being born out of wedlock. To wrap things up (for now), both of my parents (biological) have led vain and ultimately miserable lives. However, they were more similar than they'd like to believe about each other.

[nomadphilippines]

dont understand the 'time and connections' part about moving to the philippines, that is bollocks, you just show up and after 30 days go to immigration, no connections needed

indonesia being muslim isn't an issue, its a fine country, the problem is the visa is a major pain in the ass so there arent many expats