Poor Catholics Don't Know...

[Adama]

28. Some false versions of Christianity state that sacraments are necessary for salvation, even for grace. They have even forgotten that grace is unmerited and unearned.

Sacraments are nothing more than the commandments of men, similar (but not to the extent) to the Talmudic heresy of the Pharisees. Commandments do not save. Faith is what saves.

The word "sacrament" is not in the KJV Bible anywhere.

Sacrament

A sacrament is a Christian rite recognised as of particular importance and significance. There are various views on the existence and meaning of such rites. Many Christians consider the sacraments to be a visible symbol of the reality of God, as well as a means by which God enacts his grace. Many denominations, including the Anglican, Catholic, Lutheran, Methodist, and Reformed, hold to the definition of sacrament formulated by Augustine of Hippo: an outward sign of an inward grace that has been instituted by Jesus Christ.[1][2][3][4] Sacraments signify God's grace in a way that is outwardly observable to the participant.[4]

The Catholic Church recognises seven sacraments: Baptism, Reconciliation (Penance or Confession), Eucharist (or Holy Communion), Confirmation, Marriage, Holy Orders, and Anointing of the Sick.[4]

Some traditions do not observe any of the rites, or hold that they are simply reminders or commendable practices that do not impart actual grace—not sacraments but "ordinances" pertaining to certain aspects of the Christian faith.[13]

[Adama]

29. Mortal vs Venial Sins.

Also in Catholicism is some absurd concept of mortal vs venial sins and absolution. Somehow they think confession to a priest and purgatory washes a person clean from their sin. First we know that confession to a priest is nonsense and heresy, which is not in the Bible. Purgatory is a fiction that is also not in the Bible. And this also means that the person doesn't believe or trust in Christ for salvation, because faith in Christ is what cleanses the person from past, present and future sins.

And of course such people are always in constant danger in their false religion, of losing salvation. They even think going to purgatory to be cleansed is a blessing, when the place doesn't even exist.

There is no such distinction between sin in Christianity.

[Adama]

30. The priest, Mary and purgatory replace God the Father and Christ in Catholicism, in that forgiveness of sins is made by confession to the priest, instead of by faith in Christ.

In Catholicism, when a person goes to the priest to confess, this man, as the "Father", forgives the person of their sins, and then tells them a certain number of "Hail Mary"s to perform. Thus the priest has the power to forgive sins, along with directing the person to worship Mary, the "mother of God".

This is worship of the priest as God and Mary as God.

Even the scribes and Pharisees, who wanted to murder our Lord, knew more than the Catholic church, in that they at least knew that only God can forgive sins:

Mark 2:7 KJV Why doth this man thus speak blasphemies? who can forgive sins but God only?

In Christianity, the pastor has no role whatsoever in forgiveness of sins. Faith in Christ / Belief in Christ is what washes a person from their sins (through the blood and Christ's sacrifice).

If a person has sinned grievously, or feels they need to for some other reason, the Christian believer can fast and go without food, taking in only water for three days, to give glory to God and Christ, but this fasting doesn't save the soul. It gives glory to God in that it humbles the soul of the person.

31. In Catholicism, Mary and "the Saints" receive praise, glory, worship and prayer.

In Christianity, no prayer is ever made to Mary, Peter or any other saint for any reason whatsoever.

[acrossthepond101]

You do realize the Bible is simply a collection of several different books. Who do you think decided which books were to be included in the cannon and which were not? A lot of protestants like to quote the bible all day long, as if it literally fell out of the sky one day. Completely clueless to the ecumenical councils.

[Adama]

You do realize the Bible is simply a collection of several different books. Who do you think decided which books were to be included in the cannon and which were not? A lot of protestants like to quote the bible all day long, as if it literally fell out of the sky one day. Completely clueless to the ecumenical councils.

So in other words, the Catholic church approved books that blatantly deny everything that is Catholic? The Bible is God's Word. Those who belong to God can read it and determine that it is God's Word. Those who do not belong to God read it and think it is nothing special.

Hasn't Isaiah prophesied of such people?

Mark 7 KJV
7 Howbeit in vain do they worship me, teaching for doctrines the commandments of men.
8 For laying aside the commandment of God, ye hold the tradition of men, as the washing of pots and cups: and many other such like things ye do.
9 And he said unto them, Full well ye reject the commandment of God, that ye may keep your own tradition.

Just like the fake religion of Talmudism, Catholicism is the vain doctrine of men. The Catholic church is filled with idolatry. The Bible explains this. How can a house divided stand? Because if the Catholic church compiled the Bible, then why does the Bible deny the Catholic church?

[Adama]

You do realize the Bible is simply a collection of several different books. Who do you think decided which books were to be included in the cannon and which were not? A lot of protestants like to quote the bible all day long, as if it literally fell out of the sky one day. Completely clueless to the ecumenical councils.

By the way, I am not a protestant. I am not a Lutheran. I am a Christian. I am not protesting against the Catholic church. The whole thing is idolatry. There is no reform to me made. From top to bottom, through and through, it is not about Christ, but about Mary, dead saints, statutes, sacraments, the Pope, priests, the worship of dead bodies, and on and on and on. These are all things that have nothing to do with faith in Christ or salvation by faith in Christ.

Grace is free in Christianity, as in it is unearned, unmerited,and by faith alone; not by works, prayer, sacraments or confession or purgatory.

[Adama]

How could the Catholic church approve a doctrine that states that salvation is by faith alone, when Catholicism says salvation is by a vastly different means?


John 6:47 KJV
[47] Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that believeth on me hath everlasting life.

Acts 16:30-31 KJV
[30] And brought them out, and said, Sirs, what must I do to be saved? [31] And they said, Believe on the Lord Jesus Christ, and thou shalt be saved, and thy house.

1 John 5:13 KJV
[13] These things have I written unto you that believe on the name of the Son of God; that ye may know that ye have eternal life, and that ye may believe on the name of the Son of God.

Yes, that is all. Just believe in the Lord: that He is the Son of God and that He has done all the work to save you.

Most people know that Christ died for our sins, but what they always forget is just as important. That is that He also kept all the commandments of God. He fulfilled the entirety of the law. By completing all the commandments of God, He thereby overcame and conquered the commandments for everyone to be saved. He has overcome the law. All we must do is believe in Him! This is why salvation is not by works.

Romans 10:4 KJV For Christ is the end of the law for righteousness to every one that believeth.

Philippians 3:9 And be found in him, not having mine own righteousness, which is of the law, but that which is through the faith of Christ, the righteousness which is of God by faith:

Do you still think there must be some works? There aren't any. Salvation is outside the commandments:

Romans 3 KJV
[21] But now the righteousness of God without the law is manifested, being witnessed by the law and the prophets;[22] Even the righteousness of God which is by faith of Jesus Christ unto all and upon all them that believe: for there is no difference:

Salvation is by faith alone, outside of keeping the commandments:

Romans 3:28 Therefore we conclude that a man is justified by faith without the deeds of the law.

It is the free gift of God to all those who believe in His Son:

Romans 6:23 KJV
[23] For the wages of sin is death; but the gift of God is eternal life through Jesus Christ our Lord.

Ephesians 2:8-9 KJV
[8] For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God: [9] Not of works, lest any man should boast.

Romans 3:24 KJV Being justified freely by his grace through the redemption that is in Christ Jesus:

All you must do is believe. Then you're saved from that moment.

Salvation can never be lost:

John 6:37 KJV
[37] All that the Father giveth me shall come to me; and him that cometh to me I will in no wise cast out.

John 10:28 KJV
[28] And I give unto them eternal life; and they shall never perish, neither shall any man pluck them out of my hand.

Ephesians 4:30 KJV
[30] And grieve not the holy Spirit of God, whereby ye are sealed unto the day of redemption.

[Kaleras]

Very interesting. I never knew there was so much about Catholicism that was against the New Testament. I have always disagreed with their belief in purgatory and worship of Mary, though. So do you think Catholics go to hell because of how much they go against the New Testament? Or would they just suffer consequences in life such as disease or early death?

What about Orthodox Christianity? It seems to be very similar to Catholicism. From what I understand, Orthodox Christians believe salvation is gained through faith and works, and they also believe in purgatory. They seem to only disagree with Catholics about how the Holy Spirit proceeds from the Father and the Son. I would need to learn more about it to be sure, though.

[Adama]

Very interesting. I never knew there was so much about Catholicism that was against the New Testament. I have always disagreed with their belief in purgatory and worship of Mary, though. So do you think Catholics go to hell because of how much they go against the New Testament? Or would they just suffer consequences in life such as disease or early death?

What about Orthodox Christianity? It seems to be very similar to Catholicism. From what I understand, Orthodox Christians believe salvation is gained through faith and works, and they also believe in purgatory. They seem to only disagree with Catholics about how the Holy Spirit proceeds from the Father and the Son. I would need to learn more about it to be sure, though.

Salvation is either completely by faith alone or completely by works alone. The two cannot be combined. If a person trusts on their own works at all, even the slightest bit, then they are trusting in themselves and not in Christ. In other words, if a person can save himself or herself, then there would have been no need for Christ to keep all the commandments and then die for our sins. Christ has done all the work. All we must simply do is trust in Him.

If a person believes in faith plus works, then that person is trusting in himself and that will not be counted for salvation. Therefore such a person is probably not saved. Because if we could be righteous enough on our own to get to heaven, then there would have been no need for Christ's sacrifice.

Any religion that preaches works or faith plus works is a diversion meant to take people straight to Sheol.

[Adama]

Very interesting. I never knew there was so much about Catholicism that was against the New Testament. I have always disagreed with their belief in purgatory and worship of Mary, though. So do you think Catholics go to hell because of how much they go against the New Testament? Or would they just suffer consequences in life such as disease or early death?

What about Orthodox Christianity? It seems to be very similar to Catholicism. From what I understand, Orthodox Christians believe salvation is gained through faith and works, and they also believe in purgatory. They seem to only disagree with Catholics about how the Holy Spirit proceeds from the Father and the Son. I would need to learn more about it to be sure, though.

Anyone who believes in Christ, by faith alone, will go to heaven. The priests themselves though, may be the ones who are possibly in deep trouble, as preaching a false doctrine intentionally would make a person a false prophet and a ravening wolf.

There is very little difference between the Orthodox and Catholic religions. They are basically the same, except for a few minor points that are mostly irrelevant from a true Christian perspective. Once a single doctrine of work salvation is introduced, the entire religion is then a diversion. The majority of the heresies which Catholicism subscribes to, Orthodox Christianity also subscribes to, and those are too many to count, aren't they?

It may take some work to find a Christian church that doesn't believe in false doctrines of salvation. A good way to find one would be to google Bible believing churches, and then investigate their doctrine to see if they believe in faith alone with eternal security. If they believe salvation can be lost or that salvation is by faith and works, then it is not a Christian church but one of the many deceptive diversions.

Unfortunately Satan is the god of this world, and there are many diversions to lead people away from the truth. Some people have a hard time believing that Satan has influence for some reason, as if none of this is real.

[Kaleras]

Very interesting. I never knew there was so much about Catholicism that was against the New Testament. I have always disagreed with their belief in purgatory and worship of Mary, though. So do you think Catholics go to hell because of how much they go against the New Testament? Or would they just suffer consequences in life such as disease or early death?

What about Orthodox Christianity? It seems to be very similar to Catholicism. From what I understand, Orthodox Christians believe salvation is gained through faith and works, and they also believe in purgatory. They seem to only disagree with Catholics about how the Holy Spirit proceeds from the Father and the Son. I would need to learn more about it to be sure, though.

Anyone who believes in Christ, by faith alone, will go to heaven. The priests themselves though, may be the ones who are possibly in deep trouble, as preaching a false doctrine intentionally would make a person a false prophet and a ravening wolf.

There is very little difference between the Orthodox and Catholic religions. They are basically the same, except for a few minor points that are mostly irrelevant from a true Christian perspective. Once a single doctrine of work salvation is introduced, the entire religion is then a diversion. The majority of the heresies which Catholicism subscribes to, Orthodox Christianity also subscribes to, and those are too many to count, aren't they?

It may take some work to find a Christian church that doesn't believe in false doctrines of salvation. A good way to find one would be to google Bible believing churches, and then investigate their doctrine to see if they believe in faith alone with eternal security. If they believe salvation can be lost or that salvation is by faith and works, then it is not a Christian church but one of the many deceptive diversions.

Unfortunately Satan is the god of this world, and there are many diversions to lead people away from the truth. Some people have a hard time believing that Satan has influence for some reason, as if none of this is real.

Yes, many people are in denial of God. It seems that there are more atheists than believers these days, at least where I live. Do you think Satan is able to influence certain areas of the world more than others? For instance, are people in America more influenced by Satan and therefore less likely to reach heaven compared to people in other countries? Particularly because those who rule our country are Satanists and because advancement in technology, especially in media, has led most people astray?

It seems like it would be easier to connect with God in more peaceful countries that don't have such a heavy emphasis on materialism. Do Christian churches in other countries feel more spiritual because of this, especially in countries that are not as technologically advanced? That's something I've wondered about, but I've yet to go abroad, so I don't know for myself.

[Kaleras]

Very interesting. I never knew there was so much about Catholicism that was against the New Testament. I have always disagreed with their belief in purgatory and worship of Mary, though. So do you think Catholics go to hell because of how much they go against the New Testament? Or would they just suffer consequences in life such as disease or early death?

What about Orthodox Christianity? It seems to be very similar to Catholicism. From what I understand, Orthodox Christians believe salvation is gained through faith and works, and they also believe in purgatory. They seem to only disagree with Catholics about how the Holy Spirit proceeds from the Father and the Son. I would need to learn more about it to be sure, though.

Anyone who believes in Christ, by faith alone, will go to heaven. The priests themselves though, may be the ones who are possibly in deep trouble, as preaching a false doctrine intentionally would make a person a false prophet and a ravening wolf.

There is very little difference between the Orthodox and Catholic religions. They are basically the same, except for a few minor points that are mostly irrelevant from a true Christian perspective. Once a single doctrine of work salvation is introduced, the entire religion is then a diversion. The majority of the heresies which Catholicism subscribes to, Orthodox Christianity also subscribes to, and those are too many to count, aren't they?

It may take some work to find a Christian church that doesn't believe in false doctrines of salvation. A good way to find one would be to google Bible believing churches, and then investigate their doctrine to see if they believe in faith alone with eternal security. If they believe salvation can be lost or that salvation is by faith and works, then it is not a Christian church but one of the many deceptive diversions.

Unfortunately Satan is the god of this world, and there are many diversions to lead people away from the truth. Some people have a hard time believing that Satan has influence for some reason, as if none of this is real.

One thing I have noticed about some churches today is that they don't feel very spiritual. They don't feel much different from other buildings. I'm not sure if it's just me or if it's because of all the commercialization, the new technology, the music, the architecture, lack of community, or because Americans in general have become more materialistic and robotic. I don't understand why a church would allow Starbucks to operate inside of its walls when Starbucks supports gay marriage. Doesn't make sense to use church services as a means to enrich a company that goes against Christian values.

How sad that churches feel they have to lure visitors in with coffee and other treats, and have concert-style music, as if these things are the main attraction. Many churches no longer feel like an escape from materialism and consumer culture because they have to cater to the wishes of the congregation in order to survive.

Also, it seems like many Christians aren't really Christians anymore, as most people have become liberalized. Most Christians even support gay marriage now. I won't mention that I disagree with homosexuality even to Christians because most of them would be offended. I have to walk on eggshells all the time around everyone, so I started to avoid institutions, including churches. I would really like to start going regularly again. I just need to find the right place.

[Adama]

Very interesting. I never knew there was so much about Catholicism that was against the New Testament. I have always disagreed with their belief in purgatory and worship of Mary, though. So do you think Catholics go to hell because of how much they go against the New Testament? Or would they just suffer consequences in life such as disease or early death?

What about Orthodox Christianity? It seems to be very similar to Catholicism. From what I understand, Orthodox Christians believe salvation is gained through faith and works, and they also believe in purgatory. They seem to only disagree with Catholics about how the Holy Spirit proceeds from the Father and the Son. I would need to learn more about it to be sure, though.

Anyone who believes in Christ, by faith alone, will go to heaven. The priests themselves though, may be the ones who are possibly in deep trouble, as preaching a false doctrine intentionally would make a person a false prophet and a ravening wolf.

There is very little difference between the Orthodox and Catholic religions. They are basically the same, except for a few minor points that are mostly irrelevant from a true Christian perspective. Once a single doctrine of work salvation is introduced, the entire religion is then a diversion. The majority of the heresies which Catholicism subscribes to, Orthodox Christianity also subscribes to, and those are too many to count, aren't they?

It may take some work to find a Christian church that doesn't believe in false doctrines of salvation. A good way to find one would be to google Bible believing churches, and then investigate their doctrine to see if they believe in faith alone with eternal security. If they believe salvation can be lost or that salvation is by faith and works, then it is not a Christian church but one of the many deceptive diversions.

Unfortunately Satan is the god of this world, and there are many diversions to lead people away from the truth. Some people have a hard time believing that Satan has influence for some reason, as if none of this is real.

Yes, many people are in denial of God. It seems that there are more atheists than believers these days, at least where I live. Do you think Satan is able to influence certain areas of the world more than others? For instance, are people in America more influenced by Satan and therefore less likely to reach heaven compared to people in other countries? Particularly because those who rule our country are Satanists and because advancement in technology, especially in media, has led most people astray?

It seems like it would be easier to connect with God in more peaceful countries that don't have such a heavy emphasis on materialism. Do Christian churches in other countries feel more spiritual because of this, especially in countries that are not as technologically advanced? That's something I've wondered about, but I've yet to go abroad, so I don't know for myself.

In my personal opinion, the USA is the best and probably the easiest place to get saved, because two things are on our side here: Freedom of religion and freedom of speech. That's why there are so many non-Catholic, non-Anglican religions in the USA. And preachers can talk to people without being censored, mostly.

Unfortunately, most of the peaceful nations have forgotten God altogether. For instance, places like Japan, Thailand, and India and even Western Europe, because of their false religions and apostate forms of Christianity.

[Adama]

Very interesting. I never knew there was so much about Catholicism that was against the New Testament. I have always disagreed with their belief in purgatory and worship of Mary, though. So do you think Catholics go to hell because of how much they go against the New Testament? Or would they just suffer consequences in life such as disease or early death?

What about Orthodox Christianity? It seems to be very similar to Catholicism. From what I understand, Orthodox Christians believe salvation is gained through faith and works, and they also believe in purgatory. They seem to only disagree with Catholics about how the Holy Spirit proceeds from the Father and the Son. I would need to learn more about it to be sure, though.

Anyone who believes in Christ, by faith alone, will go to heaven. The priests themselves though, may be the ones who are possibly in deep trouble, as preaching a false doctrine intentionally would make a person a false prophet and a ravening wolf.

There is very little difference between the Orthodox and Catholic religions. They are basically the same, except for a few minor points that are mostly irrelevant from a true Christian perspective. Once a single doctrine of work salvation is introduced, the entire religion is then a diversion. The majority of the heresies which Catholicism subscribes to, Orthodox Christianity also subscribes to, and those are too many to count, aren't they?

It may take some work to find a Christian church that doesn't believe in false doctrines of salvation. A good way to find one would be to google Bible believing churches, and then investigate their doctrine to see if they believe in faith alone with eternal security. If they believe salvation can be lost or that salvation is by faith and works, then it is not a Christian church but one of the many deceptive diversions.

Unfortunately Satan is the god of this world, and there are many diversions to lead people away from the truth. Some people have a hard time believing that Satan has influence for some reason, as if none of this is real.

One thing I have noticed about some churches today is that they don't feel very spiritual. They don't feel much different from other buildings. I'm not sure if it's just me or if it's because of all the commercialization, the new technology, the music, the architecture, lack of community, or because Americans in general have become more materialistic and robotic. I don't understand why a church would allow Starbucks to operate inside of its walls when Starbucks supports gay marriage. Doesn't make sense to use church services as a means to enrich a company that goes against Christian values.

How sad that churches feel they have to lure visitors in with coffee and other treats, and have concert-style music, as if these things are the main attraction. Many churches no longer feel like an escape from materialism and consumer culture because they have to cater to the wishes of the congregation in order to survive.

Also, it seems like many Christians aren't really Christians anymore, as most people have become liberalized. Most Christians even support gay marriage now. I won't mention that I disagree with homosexuality even to Christians because most of them would be offended. I have to walk on eggshells all the time around everyone, so I started to avoid institutions, including churches. I would really like to start going regularly again. I just need to find the right place.

The Bible never has anything good to say about homosexuals. You hear of Jesus being nice to the adulteress, prostitutes and tax collectors, but you never hear about Him preaching salvation to homosexuals. The woman was created for the man. Man is supposed to go with women. It may be possible that a small portion of them can be saved, but it is entirely against what God demands, and there is a horrible penalty for people who give themselves over to it.

Those who take pleasure in unrighteousness are at risk of never getting saved, especially when it comes to intercourse. There is probably no worse crooked pleasure than homosexuality except murder.

Anyone who approves of homosexuality is confused.

As for selling things, nothing can be bought or sold within church. Christ rebuked the money changers at the temple, and He forbid men to carry in their vessels (probably containers they were using to sell things).

[Adama]

Yes, many people are in denial of God. It seems that there are more atheists than believers these days, at least where I live. Do you think Satan is able to influence certain areas of the world more than others? For instance, are people in America more influenced by Satan and therefore less likely to reach heaven compared to people in other countries? Particularly because those who rule our country are Satanists and because advancement in technology, especially in media, has led most people astray?

It seems like it would be easier to connect with God in more peaceful countries that don't have such a heavy emphasis on materialism. Do Christian churches in other countries feel more spiritual because of this, especially in countries that are not as technologically advanced? That's something I've wondered about, but I've yet to go abroad, so I don't know for myself.

By the way, any religion that isn't Christianity is basically a form of Satanism. If the worship isn't going to Christ, it is going to Satan. That's why there are so many false religions: all meant to divert worship from Christ to Satan, and to destroy their souls in the process.

As for technology and materialism, any form of great riches can cause excessive pride, which can make people think they don't need God. It's a matter of whether or not the person can humble himself to believe in Christ. Many people are simply too arrogant.

There were always examples of rich people who weren't saved in the Bible. That's why Christ said it's easier for a camel to go through the eye of a needle (as in sewing), than for a rich man to enter into heaven. That's partially because of excessive pride. They feel they don't need God. They trust in their riches to deliver them. This is why God says His people are the poor.

Most people will always be idolators or atheists. Even back in the OT days of the Hebrews, many if not most of them didn't believe the Lord one bit, although He had shown them miracles in the desert and in Egypt. That's why they had to wait 40 years, so all the unbelievers could die off, because God did not deem them worthy to enter into His promised land. Also, even after the Israelites got back on track, usually within just a few years, they or their king would go astray and start worshiping false gods. Most people will never believe, or they will just pretend.