Why women cannot understand or relate to us

[Winston]

Hi folks,
Correct me if I'm wrong, but I get the impression that since women experience a different world than we do, and get treated totally different as well, that they cannot accurately tell us what it's like to meet women in their country. And this applies even with sincere intelligent girls like BellaRuth.

The reason I say this is because most girls in most countries, as long as they are decent looking, consider people to be very friendly and approachable. The girls in Taiwan for instance, usually claim that their girls are approachable and easy to meet, while the Taiwanese guys give me a different story, since obviously, girls and guys are treated totally different. Of course when you are a girl, EVERYONE is approachable to you. Why wouldn't they be?

Therefore, a girl cannot understand what it's like to be a guy and how women treat us, cause they do not treat us the way they treat other women. Correct?

Thus, it stands to say that women cannot give men an accurate picture of what it's like to meet or approach females in her country, even if she's well meaning and intelligent, since she experiences a totally different world and treatment than we do.

Is this a correct conclusion?

[Repatriate]

Therefore, a girl cannot understand what it's like to be a guy and how women treat us, cause they do not treat us the way they treat other women. Correct?

Thus, it stands to say that women cannot give men an accurate picture of what it's like to meet or approach females in her country, even if she's well meaning and intelligent, since she experiences a totally different world and treatment than we do.

Is this a correct conclusion?

Whoa holy shit Winston you're finally starting to get it! In addition you can't rely on women for _any_ advice on how to date or approach women because they really don't know. They know what they think is right from a social or popular point of view but how they feel is a much different story and it is a different story for _every_ woman you meet.

There are some rare exceptions to this, if you're dating a girl's sister and if the sister is very supportive she can tell you a lot about what goes on in her head.

[Winston]

Yes that seems to be true Repatriate. Women usually only say what's popular or politically correct. Why is that? Why do they give bad advice about dating? Don't they understand themselves and other women? There are smart women in the world, so why don't they understand other women?

Plus they seem to have an overly rosy view of things in social arenas and give simplistic advice, whereas men tend to give more methodical and formulaic advice. Now I'm not saying that advice from men works either. It can be bad too, but at least it's not as rosy as the advice from women.

How many of you here have ever tried following advice from women about approaching/meeting women and found that it worked? I can't remember one instance where it did.

Even if you ask women who are super smart or intellectual for advice about dating, such as a female scientist or author, they will simply say "I don't know. I don't connect with a lot of people myself, so I can't give you advice on that." or they will say "I don't know. It depends on the individual." and leave it at that.

Are women's advice to other women about dating men just as bad?

It does seem though, that every decent or cute girl says that "people are so friendly" wherever she goes. I guess it's not hard to figure out why. Women have it easy in the social arena, so how can they relate to men? Plus women tend to be subtle and indirect, so how can someone who is indirect by nature give any "direct" advice to men?

[Winston]

What about Barbara DeAngelis? Is she an exception? She sounds very smart and knowledgeable about relationships and spirituality too. I've seen her on TV and she seems very wise and insightful.

http://www.barbaradeangelis.com/about.htm

But I think she specializes in helping couples who are already married, not in helping singles meet people.

[Rock]

Yes that seems to be true Repatriate. Women usually only say what's popular or politically correct. Why is that? Why do they give bad advice about dating? Don't they understand themselves and other women? There are smart women in the world, so why don't they understand other women?

Plus they seem to have an overly rosy view of things in social arenas and give simplistic advice, whereas men tend to give more methodical and formulaic advice. Now I'm not saying that advice from men works either. It can be bad too, but at least it's not as rosy as the advice from women.

How many of you here have ever tried following advice from women about approaching/meeting women and found that it worked? I can't remember one instance where it did.

Even if you ask women who are super smart or intellectual for advice about dating, such as a female scientist or author, they will simply say "I don't know. I don't connect with a lot of people myself, so I can't give you advice on that." or they will say "I don't know. It depends on the individual." and leave it at that.

Are women's advice to other women about dating men just as bad?

It does seem though, that every decent or cute girl says that "people are so friendly" wherever she goes. I guess it's not hard to figure out why. Women have it easy in the social arena, so how can they relate to men? Plus women tend to be subtle and indirect, so how can someone who is indirect by nature give any "direct" advice to men?

So which do you prefer, methodical and formulaic advice typical of many PU gurus or the overly rosy, simplistic, and impractical advice of women?

I think a lot of women are not even fully conscious of what they really want. Just compare what they ask for in personal adds to what they fall for. They're often 2 very different things. Trust me.

If you wanna get a sense about what makes women tick, you need to spend a lot of time watching them interact - with other women, with male friends, and with dates. Ideally, you should also interact with them a lot yourself. You can learn a lot if you are aware and sensitive enough. And its often quite interesting. That's the reason I stepped outside instead of sitting at the table with you when we were at that Indian Restaurant in Taichung, just to watch the group of foreigners and Taiwanese interact naturally while getting some air.

If you are with a male friend or group, you can take turns approaching and chatting to random women while the other observe and pick-up on all the non-verbal body language. If you do enough of this and your friends are good observers, you will figure a lot out just through trial and error.

[Winston]

I don't like either approach. The formulaic advice puts people into formulas and they often do not fit into them. And the overly rosy advice is just naive. Both are flawed. I prefer to just go with the flow, and adjust my actions in accord with it.

You've lived in Taipei for ten years. Haven't you had enough people watching experience there already?

[BellaRuth]

Obviously a woman cannot understand 100% how a man sees the world just as one person can't see how another sees the world. It goes with races, attractiveness, social status, and yes gender.

But with a bit of insight you can get a rough idea if you need to.

I wouldn't paint the picture that women live in a rosy wonderful planet where everyone is approachable and friendly. People are rude to women as they can be to men. The kinds of people that are intolerable to me are pretty much the same as those moaned about on this forum, it doesn't change just because I am a girl.

If you ask a woman if Filipina girls are the best wives, of course she won't be able to give you an answer like a man would, although she could think about what she would want in a wife if she was a man. It isn't all that difficult to imagine you are in another's shoes.

If you ask her what women are like in a country she has visited, if they are elegant or sweet, then she can answer just like anyone else because it is general observation independent of her gender.

As for dating advice I actually think listening to a woman is one of the best things you can do. I often get asked by men how they should approach this or that girl. I have the advantage of knowing what would make me interested and what wouldn't. As someone who works in a bar/as a waitress whilst I'm studying I get hit on as part of my job, so that gives me a viewpoint that men just wouldn't be able to get. I know what makes me cringe and what would make me see the man in a good light. I think the next best thing is observation and common sense.

[Jackal]

I think the reason why many American women give lousy advice is that they are more concerned with their own image and "sounding nice" than they are about giving accurate information.

It's like asking a student at Harvard what you should do to get in there and having him just reply with "Well, you just work really hard and everything will work out fine"--it sounds nice at the moment and allows that person to move on because they've given you some answer, but it's worthless advice.

Cultures promote a lot of myths. One classic American one is "You can do anything you want if you set your mind to it." Everyone can improve a bit, but the degree of this improvement is limited by one's talent and resources.

[Rock]

Obviously a woman cannot understand 100% how a man sees the world just as one person can't see how another sees the world. It goes with races, attractiveness, social status, and yes gender.

But with a bit of insight you can get a rough idea if you need to.

I wouldn't paint the picture that women live in a rosy wonderful planet where everyone is approachable and friendly. People are rude to women as they can be to men. The kinds of people that are intolerable to me are pretty much the same as those moaned about on this forum, it doesn't change just because I am a girl.

If you ask a woman if Filipina girls are the best wives, of course she won't be able to give you an answer like a man would, although she could think about what she would want in a wife if she was a man. It isn't all that difficult to imagine you are in another's shoes.

If you ask her what women are like in a country she has visited, if they are elegant or sweet, then she can answer just like anyone else because it is general observation independent of her gender.

As for dating advice I actually think listening to a woman is one of the best things you can do. I often get asked by men how they should approach this or that girl. I have the advantage of knowing what would make me interested and what wouldn't. As someone who works in a bar/as a waitress whilst I'm studying I get hit on as part of my job, so that gives me a viewpoint that men just wouldn't be able to get. I know what makes me cringe and what would make me see the man in a good light. I think the next best thing is observation and common sense.

Fair enough. Some women can and will give straight-up and useful advice to their male friends. I think these types tend to be emotionally mature and very much in touch with themselves and others. Those qualities are not so common with many young people.

In Colombia, even had a gal pal help me by approaching girls I liked on my behalf (she volunteered enthusiastically, lol). But since she thought a lot of me herself, she wasn't so good at picking-up on vibes of girls who were just being polite (not interested). I was better at detecting this myself.

I also grew-up with a very popular prom queen sister just one grade below me. That didn't really help me much. She didn't seem to know what would make me more attractive or popular with girls or if she did, never shared it with me. And the guys she fell for herself (in JH/HS) tended to be over-confident jerk types.

Whether your getting advice from other guys or girls, it takes a certain personality type to be able to logically analyze all the social dynamics involved and turn it into practical actionable advice. Many guys who are natural magnets to women don't even fully understand how they do what they do.

[globetrotter]

Winston,

Never listen to what any woman says.

Only look at what she does.

[Rock]

I don't like either approach. The formulaic advice puts people into formulas and they often do not fit into them. And the overly rosy advice is just naive. Both are flawed. I prefer to just go with the flow, and adjust my actions in accord with it.

You've lived in Taipei for ten years. Haven't you had enough people watching experience there already?

Has going with the flow and adjusting your actions in accord with it worked effectively for you in attracting women? Perhaps there are a few golden nuggets within all the PU philosophies, especially the self-improvement advice some of them include. There is nothing wrong with becoming a better more interesting version of yourself.

I've been in Taipei for a long time but travel abroad 3-6 months each year. And I enjoy watching people everywhere, I never get tired of it. If I'm lucky, I get a chance to join the interactions myself. With so many countries and cultures on the planet, I always learn new things. And even the relatively mundane people in Taipei are still interesting to watch and interact with.

[MrPeabody]

What’s worse is that if you ask advice of a man or a woman in America, you are highly likely to get the usual useless BS on how it is all in your head. Most advice is totally useless and asking for it is just asking to be abused.

[jamesbond]

Winston,

Never listen to what any woman says.

Only look at what she does.

That's true, actions speak louder than words!

[Enishi]

It has been my experience that women fervently believe (or simply WANT to believe) that dating for men is incredibly easy. When they give you advice to "be yourself, be confident" this is given with the unconscious assumption on their part that such things are as natural as skipping rope. Telling them that it isn't makes them perceive you in the same light that men perceive a bitchy 40 year old single mother who weighs 350 pounds.

Generally speaking, don't bother trying to explain it to them. They will only listen if you are already popular with the ladies and have a partner they envy.

I do think there IS benefits to listening to women's advice, but you need to learn to "read between the lines" as it were. They don't communicate like a man does.

[Repatriate]

As for dating advice I actually think listening to a woman is one of the best things you can do. I often get asked by men how they should approach this or that girl. I have the advantage of knowing what would make me interested and what wouldn't.

I've never heard any good dating advice offered by a woman ever. I'm not being misogynistic it's just the truth. Most of it falls under stuff like "Be yourself", "give her flowers", "tell her the truth", etc.. it's socially acceptable advice that will flop horribly and sabotage just about any early rapport building attempts.

The fact is women are initially judgmental and focus on details right off the bat making quick calls based on how the person appeals to their emotions. For example if a guy lacks confidence it's an instant turn off and he's shut out from that point onward and it's much more difficult to come back from that. Women are also far more susceptible to peer pressure or social trends. If the friends don't like you even just a little it's an uphill battle all the way. On the other hand women will also categorically write some people off as "undateable" beforehand but change their minds on a whim if the guy has loads of charm.

Men tend to feel attraction physically first and foremost and linger on her other personality traits as a secondary attribute. Most men couldn't care less about her career choices or relative social class as long as it's not destructive in some way.

You see just the natural attraction is very different. There are exceptions to this but it's rare.