What income level guarantees success with women(by country)?

[Winston]

Hi all,
Someone wanted me to post these questions for him. His reasons are below.

--------------------------------------------------------

Hi Winston,

Yes I have a computer at home but am somewhat paranoid, I guess you could
say. I love your site but want to post anonymously. I can read the site but
can't post. The public terminals won't let me post to your forum and I've tried
a couple.

Because of your site I'm considering moving overseas and I was hoping that
others on your site could tell me if my line of reasoning about 8 times the per
capita GDP was correct. I would really appreciate it if you could post it to
the Ask a Question and Get Advice forum. I need to start making plans and I'm
trying to figure out what language to learn. Thanks!

***********************************************************
SUBJECT: What income level guarantees success with women (by country)?

MESSAGE BODY: I have read postings by others on this forum about attribute
trade offs (between height, race, and income) in dating and I also did some
online research into this topic. One interesting statistic that I found was
that if a man is 5ft 0in he needs to make $387,500 to be as desirable as a man
who is 6ft 0in and makes an average mans income of $62,500 per year. In all the
statistics I have read it seems that regardless of the physical disadvantage,
whether it is a height disadvantage, ugliness, or some other problem, once a guy
makes about $400,000 per year in the US he can usually find plenty of women that
will want him. I think that this is because there are a certain percentage of
women who will just look at income to the exclusion of any other
characteristics. Therefore, once you get to that income level you can have
those women regardless of what other qualities you lack.

Please bear in mind that I'm not referring to prostitutes. What I'm
referring to are women looking for either a husband or a long term
relationship. Obviously prostitutes carry an unacceptable risk of disease
because of the number of partners that they have. Women who marry for money, on
the other hand, often only have a few partners or one partner in their life and
therefore have a much lower disease risk.

Now in the US, the per capita GDP is approximately $50,000 per year.
Therefore, a man who makes $400,000 per year in the US is making 8 times the per
capita income. What I'm trying to figure out is if this is true:

*****
WOULD MAKING 8 TIMES THE PER CAPITA GDP IN OTHER COUNTRIES WHILE LIVING IN
THOSE SAME COUNTRIES ALSO VIRTUALLY GUARANTEE SUCCESS WITH WOMEN AS IT DOES IN
THE US?
*****

For example, according to Wikipedia, Ukraine has a nominal per capita GDP of
about $2,800. Does this mean that if you live in Ukraine and, through some web
based business, make 8 times that much, or $22,400 per year, you would be as
desirable to the women living there as a man living in the US and making
$400,000 per year is to American women?

The reason that I think this might work is:

1. The female preference for rich men appears to be universal.

Reasons it might not work / possible pitfalls are:

1. Perhaps women in other countries are less materialistic and would
therefore be less interested in money than American women.

2. Perhaps the per capita GDP figures in other countries are understated
because of such factors as bartering and the underground economy. When someone
grows and eats their own food, or mows their own lawn, it isn't included in the
GDP figures.

3. Perhaps corruption in other countries might reduce the amount of money an
American living there might be able to actually keep. I have heard that in
other countries, the police demand bribes even when you have done nothing
wrong. You are just basically paying a street tax. I have also heard that
American living in some overseas nations have to either hire their own security
guards or risk a very high probability of robbery or kidnapping. If you make
$30,000 a year overseas but have to pay out $20,000 to hire several security
guards for protection then obviously you won't have much of an advantage.

NOTE: When you want to see how rich you are compared to others in a country
that you are considering moving to look at the NOMINAL per capita GDP figures,
not the PPP per capita GDP figures. The PPP (Purchasing Power Parity) figures
are adjusted for cost of living. So if a country has a low NOMINAL per capita
GDP and a much higher PPP per capita GDP this is actually a good thing because
it means the cost of living is very low.

Sugar Relationships between Sugar Daddies and Sugar Babies

In the US, there are many relationships that are known as 'Sugar
Relationships' between Sugar Daddies and Sugar Babies. In order to have such a
relationship in the US, a guy has to make an extremely high income, probably at
least $400,000 to be considered rich enough to be a Sugar Daddy. Some people
might consider this to be the same as prostitution. However, as mentioned
before, this obviously has a much lower disease risk since Sugar Babies are
usually exclusive with their Sugar Daddy and therefore Sugar Relationships are a
more logical alternative to prostitution for those who can afford them.

Risks in Foreign Countries

Men, who appear rich, whether they are in the US or in any other country,
obviously run the risk of extortion, kidnapping, and other scams. For example,
in the US, there was a case of the Duke Lacrosse players, where a stripper
accused them of rape to extort them for money. Even after the prosecutor
discovered exculpatory evidence that proved the Duke Players innocence, he
continued to press charges against them for political reasons. It is common for
women to accuse men that they think are rich of a crime so that they can file a
civil suit against them If they win in criminal court, winning in civil court
is easy. Is seems that a rich appearing foreigner would be a prime target for
such a scam. Also, in some places there may be a risk of being kidnapped and
held for ransom. If a guy were able to live overseas and earn a high enough
income there how would he defend against these risks? It seems like a
Catch-22. If you don't appear to be rich, the Sugar Babies won't be interested
in you. If you do appear rich, you will likely face extortion scams.

To summarize, what I need to find out is:

1. How much would a guy, who is ugly and awkward socially, need to be able
to earn in a given country to be a Sugar Daddy and attract a Sugar Baby? Is 8
times per capita GDP a good rule of thumb? Or would one need to make more than
8 times per capita GDP in a poor country?

2. If one were able to earn a high enough income overseas through some web
based business or by living overseas and telecommuting to a job in the US, how
would such a person minimize the risks of extortion, kidnapping, and other
safety issues while at the same time appearing rich enough to attract Sugar
Babies?

3. Also, I would like to know if there is anyone who has worked out
telecommuting arrangements with employers based in the US and is living
overseas. It seems logical that much of the work people do in the US can be
done through telecommuting so a person might be able to keep their job in the US
and move overseas where their income would be more impressive. It seems this
would be the ideal arrangement because one wouldn't have to find another job and
an overseas based job would probably be much lower paid.

4. If a guy has the following characteristics:
a. Can earn a steady income of about $30,000 while living anywhere in the
world that he has reliable internet access because he can do all of his work by
telecommuting.
b. Is short and not good looking.
c. Is socially awkward and lacks social skills.
d. Appearance in later thirties
e. Caucasian
d. Is willing to learn a foreign language and adapt to the foreign culture.
What country would give him the best chance of finding a Caucasian wife?
Ukraine? Russia? Moldova? Kazakhstan? Argentina? Hungary? Some other country?

I’ve seen lots of people on this site saying that they have had success moving
to the Philippines and finding a wife or long term relationship. I’ve also
heard of others that have brought wives from Russia and Ukraine over to the US.

However, I haven’t seen success stories of people moving to Russia or Ukraine or
some other predominately Caucasian country and living in the overseas country
and finding a wife there. It seems all of the Americans moving overseas who
find success with relationships are going to the Asian countries and finding
success there. I want to find a Caucasian wife and I’d like to hear from anyone
who has had success with LONG term relationships with Caucasian women BY MOVING
OVERSEAS and living there permanently, not by bringing a wife back to the US.

[Winston]

To respond to him:

Hmmm I think you might be overanalyzing a bit. Just pick a country you're interested in and go with the flow. Things rarely work out as planned. You gotta go with the flow.

A lot of it is about chemistry too. Sure you can attract women with your money, but those types of relationships are not genuine and do not last.

Question for you: You say that a guy making $400,000 a year in America and is ugly can still get some girls. Maybe but here's a question for you. If he's ugly and women there are cliquish and don't talk to strangers, how will they know he is even rich? By his car and clothes?

If you just tell American women directly "I'm rich" they will say "I'm not impressed". So how can it matter? Most people mind their own business and don't talk to strangers unless it's business related.

[momopi]

Question for you: You say that a guy making $400,000 a year in America and is ugly can still get some girls. Maybe but here's a question for you. If he's ugly and women there are cliquish and don't talk to strangers, how will they know he is even rich? By his car and clothes?
If you just tell American women directly "I'm rich" they will say "I'm not impressed". So how can it matter? Most people mind their own business and don't talk to strangers unless it's business related.

At that income (or socio-economic) level, doors open for you.

[Peter_Gibbons]

W: Is your question
A: Is my reply

W: If he’s ugly and the women there are cliquish and don’t talk to strangers?

A: They could find out that he is rich any number of ways. He could buy an
ultra luxury car like a Ferrari. With a $400k income he could get a mortgage on
a million dollar home. Also, women often ask questions indirectly to try to
gauge a man’s income. As long as he is able to communicate and successfully
display his income there would probably be plenty of women after him. The
online dating statistics reveal this to be the case. Even in a closed culture
such as the US I think it wouldn’t be difficult for a guy who is truly rich to
get women.

W: If you just tell American Women directly “I’m Rich�, they will say “I’m not
impressed�.

A: Yes, that is true. But that is because she will assume you are lying.
However, if you really are rich and have a way of proving it, like by driving a
Ferrari, then she will probably be impressed.

W: A lot of it is about chemistry too. Sure you can attract a woman with your
money. But those types of relationships are not genuine and do not last.

A: Yes, correct again. However, my problem is with attracting women. My plan,
if it is possible, would be to first attract women with money and then from that
group of women try to find one that I’m compatible with. A relationship can
start from superficial things like money and in some cases might develop into
something more. Since I’m very awkward socially and have Aspergers, and am not
good looking, money is the only thing I could possibly use to attract women. So
it is the only way a relationship could ever get started.

Now in the US, an ugly guy probably needs a ridiculously expensive car, like a
Ferrari, to impress a woman. BMW’s and other similarly priced cars are common
and probably aren’t good enough for an ugly guy to get a woman.

I would not be able to afford a Ferrari, much less a BMW, in the US. However,
since some countries, like Ukraine, have a per capita GDP of less than a tenth
that of the US, it might be the case that a relatively normal priced car here in
the US, like a Ford Mustang, would be as impressive to a Ukrainian woman living
in Ukraine as a Ferrari is to American women. If I lived in Ukraine and bought
a sports car that I could afford, such as a Mustang or Scion TC, would that make
me look rich? Would that be very impressive to the women living there? Would a
$30k income, which is pathetic in the US, really be rich in Ukraine or some
other poor country? Or is there something wrong with my analysis or the per
capita GDP statistics?

W: Just pick a country and go with the flow.

A: Because it costs money to travel and time to learn a language, I think it
makes sense to spend some time trying to analyze the situation. I don’t think
it makes sense to go overseas without at least knowing some of the language. In
your videos, you clearly knew some Russian when you went to Russia. So there is
a considerable investment of time and money just to try out a country. I want
to try to choose the right country first so I don’t waste money and time in the
wrong country.

A Comparison of Three Countries

Now there are 3 countries that I’ve considered and did a little research into.
They are Latvia, Ukraine, and Peru.

Latvia has a VERY high percentage of attractive women. I think this is because
it is near Scandinavia and the women look Scandinavian. However, the people are
tall (average male height is 5ft 11in) and the per capita income is $11,700.
Part of me wants to go to Latvia because it seems to have so many attractive
women. I LOVE PALE NATURAL BLONDE WOMEN and according to the blonde map of
Europe Latvia has over 50% natural blondes. However, my income of $30k would
only be 2.56 times the average, so I would only be comparatively as rich as a
man in the US is who making $128k is. Also, since the people are tall my height
disadvantage would be even greater than it is in the US.

So Latvia = Lower Chance of Success but a VERY HIGH value if successful.

Ukraine has attractive women but it seems they are less attractive than the
Latvians. Many are still very good looking though. The average height of men
in Ukraine is 5ft 9in so I would still have a significant height disadvantage.
The per capita income, according to the CIA World Fact book statistic in
Wikipedia, is only $2,600. This means I would have a HUGE income advantage. I
would have an income of 11.5 times the per capita income in that country. It
would be the equivalent of making $575,000 per year in the US. If I were making
$575,000 in the US I don’t think I would have a problem getting chicks.
However, I would still have the height disadvantage and I don’t know how
reliable the per capita income statistic is, or how impressive my income would
really be in Ukraine.

So Ukraine = Medium Chance of Success and Medium Value if successful.

Peru has a much smaller percentage of attractive women. I prefer women who are
fair skinned. Mixed race women are ok but only if their appearance looks mostly
Caucasian. Nonetheless, there are some women there that are ok looking. The
average height of men in Peru is only 5ft 4.5in therefore I would actually be
SLIGHTLY TALLER than average. The per capita GPD is $4,400, so my income would
be 6.82 times the per capita GDP there. Therefore, that would be the equivalent
of making 6.82* $50,000 = $341,000 in the US. So in Peru, I would be rich and
slightly taller than average. However, I’ve looked through the ads of women in
Peru and only a few of them are attractive. Therefore, if I did find someone
there she would at best be marginally attractive. Nonetheless, my practical
side says this might be the right choice since it would probably give me the
best chance of me at least finding someone.

So Peru = Higher Chance of Success but Low Value if successful.

Many on this forum have said that the Philippines is the easiest country. But
for some reason I just don’t find Asian women attractive so it really isn’t an
option. To be clear I don’t have anything against other races. I’m not
racist. I just don’t find women that don’t look Caucasian to be at all
attractive.

I’m not sure how to assess my chances of success in finding a wife. If my
chances are good in all of the three countries then I would choose Latvia. If
Ukraine gives me at least a 50% chance of finding a wife then Peru is out of
consideration. If my chance in Peru is more than double my chance in Ukraine
and more than triple my chance in Latvia then I would choose Peru. If Ukraine
has at least a 50% greater chance of success than Latvia I would choose Ukraine
over Latvia.

[Jackal]

Hi Peter,

All this "8 times the GDP stuff" can wildly overestimate the amount of money you need in a poor country. I think it's wiser to look at the average salary in a country. If you're making 2 to 4 times the average salary in a poor country, that should be plenty.

For example, in many Eastern European countries, average salaries are only around 600 USD per month (the median would probably be lower still...). If you're making 1200 USD a month, you will already feel quite rich.

Take Hungary for example. The GDP per capita was 18506 USD according to one list. Divide that by 12 and that's equal to 1542 USD per month, which is a hell of a lot more than most people here make. So in poor countries, just having a salary equal to the GDP per capita itself can already be plenty. There's no need to have eight times that amount. Only economic superpowers require such ridiculous amounts of money.

While it's true that you get more out of a country when you speak the language, this takes a long time and you don't want to waste your time learning the language of a country which you don't really end up liking. The best thing in my opinion is to visit each of the countries you're interested in and see how they feel. Sure, you could learn a few useful phrases in these languages when you visit them for the first time (please, thank you, I'd like the beef and dumplings, etc.), but you don't need to do anything major. If people are already kind to you when don't know the language or only speak a little bit of it, then that will motivate you to learn more of their language. If on the other hand people are rude to you when you visit and dislike Americans or Brits, then you probably don't want to bother settling there and learning their language.

You can make calculations all day long, but in the end, you just need to visit a few countries and see how they feel.

I wouldn't recommend Hungary for a shy person. People here are generally very kind and the women are very beautiful, but success with women here requires initial boldness (unless perhaps you speak perfect Hungarian and use the internet, but this is not worth the effort for a shy foreign man).

You can't generalize about corruption in Eastern European countries. In Hungary, things are pretty civilized and bribes are not required except to give to doctors before operations. In contrast, bribes are required all the time in Romania to get things done. So everything varies by country.

[globetrotter]

There is NO income level that guarantee's success with women.

You can have millions and be a total idiot with women and you can be homeless and have them lined up.

The RP are best if one thinks like that. With just a few hundred dollars a month you can get a steady.

[zzzz]

Just using GDP and income comparisons fails to take into account many things. All around the world many things are similar prices for goods. Services and human labor is the main thing which is less expensive. Good such as cars and computers are expensive everywhere and you can probably find better deals in Western countries. Maybe I'm wrong but often my impression has been even in low GDP countries if you want to live at Western standards you pay a big premium for it since their standard is much lower.

[Winston]

Peter, well true, you can't go to every country. I mean pick a few or narrow down to a few and go from there. Nothing wrong with research but the bottom line is that you can't know how something will work out unless you try it yourself.

So you've narrowed it down to Latvia, Ukraine and Peru?

I've been to Latvia and the girls are very feminine, friendly and approachable. It was the closest thing I've ever experienced to a "happy village" like they show in Disney movies of old.

I'm sure you'd have great experiences in all three countries though.

[globetrotter]

'Since I’m very awkward socially and have Aspergers, and am not
good looking, money is the only thing I could possibly use to attract women.'

No, you have just convinced yourself that is the case.

Since you have Asperger's, which when I was growing up was called 'He's a Geek/Nerd/Introverted/Bookworm', you will rationalize this away.

That's was Aspies do. They discard information because their minds are closed systems that convince themselves that they are right, when you have flaws in your assumption base.

You live in your head. Stop living in your head.

That's the fix.

Go to http://www.steelballs.com and contact Don Steele for a consultation. He knows how to get super smart guys like you out of your infinite positive feedback loop of self-justified failure.

[NorthAmericanguy]

There is NO income level that guarantee's success with women.

You can have millions and be a total idiot with women and you can be homeless and have them lined up.

The RP are best if one thinks like that. With just a few hundred dollars a month you can get a steady.

I agree.

[ladislav]

Sugar Daddy relationships are great when you get older and are still unmarried. I blew my Saudi salary on some 11 girls whom I sugardaddied. All but two are no longer in touch with me. Remember that as soon as the money current dries up, many such relationship putter to an end. Make sure that not only you have a good income but that you keep on having it and increasing it. Because if you go bust, your models will start pouting and stomping their feet. Then many will just dump you. And it hurts.
Those are the risks of the "trade". But the rewards are also great provided the money keeps coming and you can juggle your sugar babies without them getting jealous of each other.

Incomewise, in the US, the average is $39K per person. But that was in 2009. How is it now in the recession?

http://www.infoplease.com/ipa/A0104652.html


Not sure how they arrived at that figure. And also, taxes will be some 24%. So, that means some 30K a year take home per person on the average or USD 2500 a month. That is what an average American brings home every month.

[Rock]

Sugar Daddy relationships are great when you get older and are still unmarried. I blew my Saudi salary on some 11 girls whom I sugardaddied. All but two are mo longer in touch with me. Remember that as soon as the money current dries up, many such relationship putter to an end. Make sure that not only you have a good income but that you keep on having it and increasing it. Because if you go bust, your models will start pouting and stomping their feet. Then many will just dump you. And it hurts.
Those are the risks of the "trade". But the rewards are also great provided the money keeps coming and you can juggle your sugar babies without them getting jealous of each other.

Incomewise, in the US, the average is $39K per person. But that was in 2009. How is it now in the recession?

http://www.infoplease.com/ipa/A0104652.html


Not sure how they arrived at that figure. And also, taxes will be some 24%. So, that means some 30K a year take home per person on the average or USD 2500 a month. That is what an average American brings home every month.

What you describe above is just a form of P4P. No wonder some of the newbies are put-off by the Philippines. If my only relationships in life were with girls who disappear as soon as my cash flow resources are depleted, I would be quite lonely.

Ideally, one can have an girlfriend who truly loves him and sticks by his side even when he is poor while letting him have some fun on the side to break the monotony. This type of girlfriend is a rare find. Moreover, decent guys would probably feel too guilty to take advantage of her generosity and fall into a monogamous lifestyle.

[momopi]

Sugar Daddy relationships are great when you get older and are still unmarried. I blew my Saudi salary on some 11 girls whom I sugardaddied. All but two are no longer in touch with me. Remember that as soon as the money current dries up, many such relationship putter to an end. Make sure that not only you have a good income but that you keep on having it and increasing it. Because if you go bust, your models will start pouting and stomping their feet. Then many will just dump you. And it hurts.
Those are the risks of the "trade". But the rewards are also great provided the money keeps coming and you can juggle your sugar babies without them getting jealous of each other.

Incomewise, in the US, the average is $39K per person. But that was in 2009. How is it now in the recession?

$39k * 11 = $429,000 USD @_@?!

[NorthAmericanguy]

Sugar Daddy relationships are great when you get older and are still unmarried. I blew my Saudi salary on some 11 girls whom I sugardaddied. All but two are mo longer in touch with me. Remember that as soon as the money current dries up, many such relationship putter to an end. Make sure that not only you have a good income but that you keep on having it and increasing it. Because if you go bust, your models will start pouting and stomping their feet. Then many will just dump you. And it hurts.
Those are the risks of the "trade". But the rewards are also great provided the money keeps coming and you can juggle your sugar babies without them getting jealous of each other.

Incomewise, in the US, the average is $39K per person. But that was in 2009. How is it now in the recession?

http://www.infoplease.com/ipa/A0104652.html


Not sure how they arrived at that figure. And also, taxes will be some 24%. So, that means some 30K a year take home per person on the average or USD 2500 a month. That is what an average American brings home every month.

I'm not trying to educate you ladislav, this is more for anybody else that reads this, but it's is no different when you have a girlfriend or you're married in that once the money runs out, so does the "love."

I really don't understand why men even have GF/wifes once you find out how women are. Just save your money so you can afford care when you're older and rent women for fun along the way.

[Rock]

I'm not trying to educate you ladislav, this is more for anybody else that reads this, but it's is no different when you have a girlfriend or you're married in that once the money runs out, so does the "love."

I really don't understand why men even have GF/wifes once you find out how women are. Just save your money so you can afford care when you're older and rent women for fun along the way.

I've seen refreshing exceptions to what you say. There are plenty of girls, at least from what I've seen, who will stick with the dirt poor boyfriend/fiance/husband even when the rich suitor comes calling. Perhaps the US is different, I don't know.

I've seen this dynamic play out many times in Taiwan, China, and even Thailand. In the worst cases, the girl will work just to support a lazy deadbeat boyfriend. In other cases, the guy tries hard but because of limitations (education, business sense, etc.) is stuck with minimum wage work. If the girl is a pure type, in love with her poor man, and has no special family pressure (poor parents who desperately need money), the rich guy who tries to win her over will probably get nowhere.