Japanese women?

[JesseL26]

How would Japan be nowadays for either dating or wifey material? How does it compare to South East Asia?

[chanta76]

Miss the boat by 10 years...and it's soon be like that for South Korea and give it a few years China. Developed Asian countries the women there are starting to become more independent and materialistic.

Now compare still to a feminist over weight American women the women in Asia is still better but as a country gets richer you have to understand that the women gain independence too.

[JesseL26]

Yeah just as I figured. Sucks tho. An old man who was a Viet vet told me Japanese women in the 70's were awesome. So 10 years ago it was better in Japan? Hell even in the SEA 3rd world countries women have this Western attitude it's getting bad, At least Japan seems like there's more respect overall though but maybe I am wrong?

[Contrarian Expatriate]

There is a reason why the Japanese are disappearing into history. The woman there have become too Westernized and focused on career so very few want to marry or even have children.

They are very attractive, but steer clear if you want to find wife material.

[Cornfed]

The sheer practicalities would be a problem in dating Japanese women. If she is working 10 hours a day, six days a week, has to take the subway home within operating hours and has all manner of demands on her free time, when do you even get to see her?

[JesseL26]

Wow that explains why their population is decreasing. What countries do you guys recommend for down to earth wifey material women other than The Philippines?

[Contrarian Expatriate]

Wow that explains why their population is decreasing. What countries do you guys recommend for down to earth wifey material women other than The Philippines?

It is less about countries, and more about tapping into female hypergamy. You can go to whichever country you like, but focus on the smaller and less prosperous towns where there is little opportunity for women to become careerists or marry up.

I love meeting women online from the smaller towns and inviting them to the big cities where they feel freer and enjoy painting the town with a rich foreign guy.

[MrMan]

There is a reason why the Japanese are disappearing into history. The woman there have become too Westernized and focused on career so very few want to marry or even have children.

They are very attractive, but steer clear if you want to find wife material.

Good to see you softening up on the hard-line ideology. Its not good for keeping the population going.

[MrMan]

I'm no expert on Japan. In my interactions with the Japanese, they seem to be kind of like Koreans (who I've had more interaction with in the US, abroad, and from living in Korea) in that they have a 'tight' culture. I have spent very little time in Japan, but I've gotten to know a people from there who were living or staying in the US. That is, cultural expectations are more uniform and deviations from the norm are less acceptable. Koreans talk in code. "Let me think about that" means no. They don't want to be direct.

I spent many years in Indonesia. Indonesia has many people-groups and is multi-cultural. If you live in a city and even in many towns and villages, most people are used to interacting with other people who have other customs. The people tend to be laid back and easy going. I get the same vibe from Filippinos. Japan and Korea seem to be more high stress cultures. Japanese and Koreans work really long work hours. Japanese are known for a lack of work-life balance. It used to be the salarymen worked crazy long hour and hardly saw their wives. Now,women are in the workforce, and marriage rates have declined. They need more younger workers to support their version of the baby boom generation.

There are sex-related services, digital girlfriends, girls who pretend to be a man's girlfriend, porn, etc. for nerdy young men who cannot get girlfriends in a cold culture where it is hard to find a girlfriend (this is from watching stuff on the 'net which may deal with a niche of society there rather than paint a picture of the average person. So it sounds like they've got some of our social challenges for young singles on steroids, mixed with an uptight, hard-to-understand culture. It sounds pretty bleak.

Just like over hear, though, my generalities do not apply to everyone. Not every guy here is using porn. Not every young woman is cold and distant in the US, or only wants to date thugs, though you may read posts from posters complaining that many women are like this.

For serious Christians, though, I hear there tend to be a lot of women in church looking for Christian husbands. The same is true in some parts of China, I hear. Churches tend to be at least somewhat marriage oriented, and if the women want to marry men of the same faith, their options in Japan are limited.

I also hear virginity is rare there, the same sort of thing as the US.

That being said, that is not to say that if the culture is not the most marriage friendly that you cannot find one woman suitable to be a wife in terms of character, values, looks, etc. out of the millions there. It's the same with the US. You can think of it as a bell curve where you might want to within that 5% of singles instead of within that 10 or 20% of singles in another country. If pickings are slimmer, that doesn't mean there aren't any pickings.

Since Indonesia is in Southeast Asia, and I have spent many years there, including some time last year and the year before, I'll share about that. In general, I think Indonesian culture is a pretty good culture for preparing women to be wives compared to ours in the west in many ways. Women there think of it as their duty and responsibility to take care of the home, cook, etc. There seems to be more respect for men, even husbands who do not behave that respectably sometimes. There are multiple cultures there, and all are a bit different, but from what I can say of the general national culture, it is not like Saudi Arabia where the women are in a very low position. They can work and all that kind of stuff, but I haven't heard feminist ideology there, except from one Chinese Indonesian girl who'd picked it up studying abroad. I haven't encountered a culture where the women bow and say 'Yes master' to their husbands like the genie in "I dream of genie.' It's not like that, but definitely more traditional in a lot of ways than here.

Sexual ethics are more conservative, too. There are women going to the city and losing their virginity. I spoke Malaysian with a taxi driver who lamented about the same thing, there. But there is a general expectation that men and women be virgins until marriage. It seemed like 23 give or take a year was marrying age for women, based on the weddings I went to, and a few years older for men. I just looked it up-- 22.3 for women and 25.7 for men. I overheard my wife and her village-raised cousin lamenting about a relative who had lost her virginity before marriage. It's not the norm like it is here. Marrying a virgin is good for lowering chances of divorce, for marital happiness and probably for her not cheating (though I haven't looked up research on that last one.)

There are challenges if you marry an Indonesian. If she comes from the village, she may be more traditional, but you could end up with a girl who learned to wash dishes on the bathroom floor. She might be able to scrub clothes by hand, but doesn't know how to use a washing machine. Washing machines seem more common in Jakarta now than in the '90's. She may not have had the same education in biology and the sciences that you got in high school. That is probably improving, though. If she's college educated, she probably studied subtopics of her discipline (e.g. all accounting, finance, management, marketing for business majors) without general education, so their education may be a bit less well-rounded than our US system.

If you marry the girl, you marry the family. Every culture has it's own 'adat', like a system of rules. A family meeting can resemble a business meeting discussing how to proceed using Robert's rules of order, except they discuss their adat of what to do next. Adat grounds them to traditional family roles, but it can be burdensome.

I had a co-worker whose husband worked with the president. He had a high ranking military role for his field. I guess he was the rich guy in the family. She said his relatives would show up out of the blue and want them to take them around the city, feed and provide for them. There could be hospitality obligations like that. I haven't experienced too much along those lines that I found burdensome, but my wife and I both value hospitality anyway, and we have voluntarily had some of her relatives come stay with us for months at a time a few times during our marriage for different reasons. She was from a different people-group than my wife.

My wife's female relatives are helpful with the housework, which makes it easier to let them stay with you. Otherwise, you kind of get addicted to having a maid over there. Relatives tended to be a bit more reliable, since maids come and go when you have small kids that make messes. They stuck around more when it was just the two of us and when our kids got older and more independent.

When my wife's female relatives came over on occasion, they head right for the kitchen to clean up. It's the culture there. Invite Filippinas over to your house to eat and they will clean your kitchen, too, just like Indonesians. The men, not so much, but the nephews and in-laws will chop pork up if you happen to roast it. Gender roles are defined by culture.

My wife sends her dad money from time to time. We may have him on a regular stipend. He's got other kids, too, one who is actually doing okay financially also living abroad. So it is not just us supporting him. They money we send isn't that much in the US economy, but it really helps him up in the small town he lives in. I do not object to this since I see children supporting parents as part of the natural order of things. I would want my children to do the same if it were needed.

If you marry an Indonesian or Filippina, you should discuss sending money to parents. Yours might have retirement. Their retirement is her and whatever other siblings she has. If she has a brother or sister doing drugs, drinking, not responsible, etc. that's something to factor in. You and your wife could end up being the pension plan. If you marry a girl whose brother is hard-working in law school, you might split the burden or he may take the whole thing. (I'm not sure about which child provides in the Philippines.) I think the oldest son is supposed to provide in Korea and get the inheritance. I"m not sure about Japan. Discuss caring for parents before you marry an Asian woman. Expectations are different.

Ask about marriage couples, what getting married involves, costs, etc. You don't ask to ask her, just a member of her people-group before broaching the topic with the woman you are considering. Indonesian culture requires feeding hundreds of people a big meal. A few dozen come to the wedding, and the three hundred you invite ask their friends to tag along. My wife's people-group has a lot of rituals involving dividing up meat from the pig or water buffalo slaughtered for the event. We did two weddings, one in the village. This was during the financial crisis when stuff was dirt cheap. It would be several thousand dollars to have a wedding there. But it could still be cheaper than a much smaller party in the US.

As far as looks go, I would say if you took 100 girls in the 20-something age range girls from Japan and put them in a room with the same number of 20'something girls from Indonesia, there would be a lot more pretty Japanese girls than Indonesian. That's my perception, though, and a lot of guys go for the more typical Indonesian looks, too. My wife had dozens of first and second cousins. I can think of maybe 8 that are really good looking or were in their prime. But there are still, numbers wise, there are a lot of really attractive Indonesian girls. I get the impression that the Philippines tends to have a higher percentage of good-looking women. If you are looking for a wife, though, you are looking for an individual, not country statistics.

I went to Korea in my early 20's. I dated a little there. One girl I dated there was actually Indonesia. But it seemed like some Korean girls were interested in me too. But in Indonesia, I could see a spark of interest in the eyes of women there. When I got there one young professional gave me her business card after a very brief conversation, which seemed a bit odd. Oh yeah, it's got her number on it. She wasn't my type. I visited home for Christmas, and a couple of young women gave me gifts to give my mom. That was strange. Someone later explained maybe they were thinking in terms of getting in good with the mother-in-law. I hadn't asked them out or anything. Some girls were outright flirtatious. Most were kind of more innocent and middle-schoolish about it. But it was like I'd gone up a couple of points for looks. Some Indonesian women like western men.

If you are a white western man there, you are automatically considered to be rich and reasonably high status (depending on the status of the person doing the considering.) This might be decreasing as Indonesians are more affluent. It was good this last time over there for my wife to have relatives richer than we were, picking us up in their caravan of minivans when our company car and driver wasn't available. Asians from developed countries might also be considered high status there, too. I think the Indonesians like the 'pointy nose' that whites have and think white-Indonesian babies look good. They don't have the same concerns about preserving pure ethic/national identity that some Koreans had. You can be mixed and be Indonesian there. It's probably the remnants of colonialism combined with the fact that many people there are ethnically mixed among native people-groups.

I had a friend from Nigeria. Back in the 1990's, when there was a problem with Nigerians running scams, even robbing banks, empty taxis would pass him by. I got the impression that being black in Indonesia wasn't an advantage. I did know some Africans who had married local Indonesians, though.

[Cornfed]

I love meeting women online from the smaller towns and inviting them to the big cities where they feel freer and enjoy painting the town with a rich foreign guy.

And then at some point (not necessarily because of you) they end up as charred corpses. Serves them right.

[Contrarian Expatriate]

There is a reason why the Japanese are disappearing into history. The women there have become too Westernized and focused on career so very few want to marry or even have children.

They are very attractive, but steer clear if you want to find wife material.

Good to see you softening up on the hard-line ideology. Its not good for keeping the population going.

I am not softening anything dumbass. I am stating fact so to address the young man's reasonable question.

[Contrarian Expatriate]

I love meeting women online from the smaller towns and inviting them to the big cities where they feel freer and enjoy painting the town with a rich foreign guy.

And then at some point (not necessarily because of you) they end up as charred corpses. Serves them right.

Serves them right because they chose to be with me instead of an incredible, accomplished, handsome, masculine, and intelligent man like you? OK, whatever makes you feel better about yourself champ. You need all the help you can get in that area...

If it makes you feel better, none of these girls ever met black men before me and they don't even fancy black man in general. For some reason, they feel I am just different which I think means that I don't embody the stereotype of an American let alone a black one.

To be fair, the charred corpse theory you fling around DOES have some merit. But that is only true with DAMAGED women who are hybristophiliacs (look it up). Damaged women of that type have no attraction to me whatsoever.

[E Irizarry R&B Singer]

I love meeting women online from the smaller towns and inviting them to the big cities where they feel freer and enjoy painting the town with a rich foreign guy.

And then at some point (not necessarily because of you) they end up as charred corpses. Serves them right.

Serves them right because they chose to be with me instead of an incredible, accomplished, handsome, masculine, and intelligent man like you? OK, whatever makes you feel better about yourself champ. You need all the help you can get in that area...

If it makes you feel better, none of these girls ever met black men before me and they don't even fancy black man in general. For some reason, they feel I am just different which I think means that I don't embody the stereotype of an American let alone a black one.

To be fair, the charred corpse theory you fling around DOES have some merit. But that is only true with DAMAGED women who are hybristophiliacs (look it up). Damaged women of that type have no attraction to me whatsoever.

Such the elaborate term to demystify what AW are. Thank you!!!!

[flowerthief00]

As with so many things Japan follows the trends set by the US, behind by a few years. Marriage rates are dropping, though not yet at US levels. Divorce is increasing, though not yet at US levels. People are delaying the age at which they marry, though not yet to the extent in the US.

Most women in Japan and most women in the US as well DO still want to marry. But now that it is no longer an economic necessity they have become particular about it. The age at which they want to marry increases. The standards they expect in a man rises (high income, tall and good-looking, common national/cultural/ethnic background).

[MatureDJ]

Do they bodies like anime gals? I had a P2P in Russia once that had a body like one.