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Hi everyone. I just want to lay this on the table for discussion. I like intelligent arguments and ideas that can explore the heights and depth of this subject. There are a lot of intelligent guys here, so let's begin.
If you put a group of women in a room with a comparable amount of males, the women will start gravitating to the aggressive macho male. Soon he will have a few women competing for him, and the other males will have to join the alpha male to get some of the attention. The alpha male soon has the pick of who he wants, and if he is unscrupulous, he dates them all at the same time, and still he never runs out of option. The females disregard the beta males, in a bid to get the alpha. He treats them badly and they like him even more and see it as a challenge.
She goes over to complain to the beta about her plight, when the alpha has abused her enough. He buys her dinner, listens to her, she cries on his shoulder, and the next day she is back with the alpha. The alpha gets rewarded for his bad boy behavior with a bevy of beautiful women. The beta has to wait and wait.
The more nice the beta is, the worse she will treat him. You guys, here, know what I am talking about. Is it biology or is it that women get together in the morning and plan how they are going to get the alpha man and ignore the beta?
When a woman is alone, she is probably daydreaming how she is going to capture the perfect man. He'll have the beta qualities to provide and stick with her through thick and thin. She will spend the rest of her life with him. He'll be there for her when she needs to talk and cry. But she also envisions him tall and strong and able to protect her from the harsh world. A leader among men. He will have enough to provide for her and her children, and he will be able to be her man and secretly she may want him to dominate her. So if she is strong willed, he will have to be stronger and able to wrestle her to submission.
Very few men in real life will measure up to that. In fact I don't think any man will measure up to that. So unconsciously she looks for this man as she goes about her day at work or wherever she is. She, unconsciously, has to test each suitor to see if he qualifies. That is why she has such a shield up. Climb up, my tower, she says. I'll send all my slaying words and stares at you and if you survive, you may get my attention.
If she gets interested in you, you will have to go through a series of tests. Her scorn; things you have to achieve, to see if you are worth her while.
Then, when you are face to face with the queen, you will have to conquer her, before she becomes yours.
It isn't easy being a man.
Beta males find this extremely hard, and take a lot of bruising. Beta males are more law abiding, responsible, kind sensitive, intelligent, family oriented, many have high morals.
A beta male makes a better husband, father and provider.
They are more likely to stick to one woman, and be there for you during the worse.
When a woman finally hooks or marries an alpha, she forever has to look over her shoulder, to see if there is another woman who might overthrow her.
With a beta she can sleep in peace. He will come home every evening.
Every week he will bring home the paycheck. He is so appreciative of his wife, he seldom complains.
I love betas, myself, but I am attracted to alphas. An alpha seem to work from chemistry, even lust.
A beta, from heart and conscience.
Chemistry may die, but heart and conscience last forever.
Anyway the competition in America seems to involve the adventuresome alpha and the "nice guy" beta. The beta will probably win in the long run.
I think in the end, beta males will develop a coronary. My sister was exactly as described in your scenario above, however, she married a Beta & as a result of her intrinsic lack of respect for him (or herself, since she didn't get Mr Alpha w/ investment banking profile), today, he's browbeaten, overweight, and consistently exhausted. He's basically an abuse victim and won't end the marriage because he's accepted his *divine* destiny.
Remember, time/energy is money and there's no point in wasting any. I see this as a situation where the Beta male should increase his earnings' potential, develop his own inner qualities, but find a woman elsewhere. Yes, he can put on a show where he's a type of listener to the Histrionic personalities of various alpha seeking women but he should never truly care for them as that's a waste of his precious energy. But of course one should always engage in conversation because one may never know if there's a business lead or potential client in the works.
S_Parc, there are really no winners in this scenario that you describe. I pity her poor husband, as there is probably no way he can win. If he does good or he does bad, he loses. She sounds like a nightmare, where there is no waking. This should be a lesson to all to be careful who you marry, because it's so hard to change things when the wedding is over.
I personally don't believe in the whole "beta/alpha" male genetic nonsense.
Because I can be a Beta or I can be Alpha depending on my mood or the women. Sure I've been the "crying shoulder" and I've been the "stud" and, honestly, I was still the same person. I'm a good person whom treats people how I want to be treated. If, and I have, I meet a woman whom insists on be treating like dirt in order to be attracted to me, I quickly get the hell away from her. Such people are disasters just waiting for you to create. You can talk about "challenges" all you like, but in the end, most women end up unfulfilled, empty and alone.
Alpha/Beta male behavior is simply:
Here in the West though, "Alpha" behavior can get your fired or it can get you sex. It all depends on the man and what mood the women is in that SPECIFIC time! I think ssjparris said something about getting tagged for sexual harrassment and the women later saying "she liked him." I've had somewhat similar experiences. One in which an attractive woman complained to me about a co-worker "checking her out" and when I replied "Well, sometimes I'm checking you out too!" To which she replied "Oh, that's alright, you are cute!"
My point being that any MAN can be a so-called Alpha or Beta. One thing I have noticed though is that alot of the so-called always Alpha males usally don't have anything to lose, such as jobs, assests, families, community standing or whatnot, and so they really can be aggressive to women without losing anything, since they have nothing. Most get rejected quite a bit, but, of course, they only brag about their successes.
I left my wife for a number of reasons, but one of the biggest was that she was not prepared to accord me a role of head of the household. Her basic idea of 'equality' was "What's mine is mine, and what's yours is mine." Worse, she deliberately got herself fired from a good job so she could try tp stay at home and not work, just like her mother and sisters have done - yet she still wanted to be the one who called the shots in the household.
Put more simply, I was not prepared to be a sub-beta male and put up with that kind of bullshit.
Hypergamy (colloquially referred to as marrying up or gold digging) is the act or practice of seeking a spouse of equal or higher socioeconomic status, or caste status than oneself.
The term is often used more specifically in reference to a perceived tendency amongst human cultures for females to seek or be encouraged to pursue male suitors that are comparatively older, wealthier or otherwise more privileged than themselves. Hypergamic behaviours can be explained in terms of genetic economic necessity, in which societies with high levels of gender inequality are more likely to have women who "marry-up" for the benefit of their children, and more likely to have men who "marry-down" to ensure that their mates have a higher incentive to remain faithful.
I am not sure if the dog pack mentality is valid in human relationships. It may be a way for some that presume they are "alpha" to puff their fragile egos, but in the end wolf packs dont normally engage in wildly self destructive behavior. In that way, they may be superior to humans.
Of the two guys I know that used the "beta male" epithet liberally, one got his ass handed to him in divorce court then married a vile bottom-of-the-barrel high school dropout hyper-skank and the other hooked up with a divorced mother of 2 in the Dakotas, then he murdered her and raped her daughter and is now doing life in Club Fed.
As I said, both were very convinced they the top of the food chain, and I always knew they would end up on the fuzzy end of the lollypop.
I spent my youth exploring the world and engaging in all sorts of military misadventure. I married a foreign girl 7 years ago and its been smooth sailing for the most part. Best part is, if you were to ask the two losers stated above, and anyone I went to high school with for that matter, they would swear I was the biggest loser in the world...as they filled out their alimony and child support check.
The path I chose is that of the lone wolf, and its paid off pretty well.
alpha male is a myth
people aren't dogs, and men don't live in wolfpacks.
there are such things as a natural born leaders, etc but that has nothing to do with fighting skill or just pure size
women probably laugh at how pathetic men are at choosing mates. how we only see the surface and don't see the "obvious"
well i laugh at how blind women are at picking mates or judging character
in the US we live in a controlled society. if you push someone, you might go to jail. it's another communist tactic where the only violence allowed is if you're wearing a badge or a uniform, in which case kill all you want and you'll just get a slap on the wrist if not a medal of honor..
what's my point? 90% of the thugs and alpha males you see are complete frauds. it's been at least 2 decades since people were punished for being frauds, because there were actual thugs around!! everyone was in shape. maybe 10% were nerds and 90% were jocks, (go watch Karate Kid or something), now its the opposite. are you getting this??
the guy who is genuine, or doesn't take a special interest in what he wears and how he acts, is ostracised. women pick the "confident" alpha male. with women unable to distinguish confident from pompous jackass desperately overcompensating for his deep insecurities. and unable to realize that to look the way he does he has to partake in very masculine metrosexual grooming, shopping..
often times a kid will watch something like Scarface or rap video on tv and in that instant decide he's of a different stock... and totally change his personality to fit that of what he saw portrayed on tv. it's utter bullshit. maybe back in the 1940s when every male at school dressed the same and before kids started playing with guns, you could see who the alpha male is. not anymore.
i read some psychology theories way back that said our family situation largely determined our personality
for example my father has two older sisters and he's fairly short. thus he over-compensates his masculinity
if he had a few older brothers instead, he might of acted like a p***y and been more interested in painting
something to consider i hope, even if i'm not the most eloquent when i come on this forum
Woman'sView, the person here in question is my flesh and blood older sister. When we were growing up, she got me into accepting a beta male role with the idea that I'd serve some great future business venture of hers. For years, she bragged about Gloria Steinem, Marie Curie, Susan Anthony, Patti Smith, Deborah Harry, and so forth, as if the spirits of these more accomplished women were in her body. In the end, she was a faux feminist, as she performed poorly in high school, (since my father couldn't pay for the upkeep of the lifestyle of the other elite preppies of our town), so she was always going through mood swings related to her HS pecking order. The reason why her hubby married her was 'cause she got him into believing that it was her parents fault and 'all that jazz' as oppose to something in her. Seeing that my father was in fact an intransigent type of lug, her BF played the role of the savior and did his best to lift her situation. Eventually, both her college and vocational plans fell apart and of course married and with kids, she became a closet alcoholic & long term abuser. The guy was then henpecked for life. For me, as I turned into an adult, I started to see through her. Sure, dad was a difficult person but it was just as easy to ignore him and to do ones' homework or get an internship in another city. I stopped paying attention and went on with my life. Eventually, we grew apart and she started hating me when it became apparent that I was more alpha (as a grown up) and less beta.
TruthVille, if you know a better terminology to replace "alpha" and "beta", feel free to introduce it, I am open to changing the paradigm if I find something better.
I, myself, have always been attracted to alpha males, the aggressive leader and somewhat insensitive man. Maybe I am wired that way. Maybe most women are wired that way. I know some women who go only for beta males, because of the women's personalities. They are usually aggressive or bossy type women, who do not like to be challenged. They want a man who could do what they want or control. Some simply like the quiet type and are not bossy at all, just good women. My mother belongs to the former, she prefers the beta male, who provides and don't intrude, that way she has better control over the family.
I have a friend who has a beta type husband, and she pulls all the punches. Neither of them are happy, and needless to say, it's a powder keg to just be at their house.
I probably will end up marrying a beta, because he will stay put and not stray.
ExpeditonSailor, I am sorry that you had a bad experience in your former marriage. What women have to realize, is that they can't have it both ways. If they choose to stay home, then, they should allow the man to lead, or at least confer together in the important decisions. Anyway, in all marriages, a man should be allowed to be man, and a woman a woman, whether the woman works or not. It allows for a happy flow in the relationships for all involved.
Kunold, that seems to be the observable pattern in history in most if not all cultures.
Grunt, the dogs are just doing what dogs do. Man has a choice to rise to his highest self. Unfortunately, many find freewill as a reason to make a fool of themselves and give manhood a bad name. Fortunately there are still gentlemen on this forum and out there in the real world.
Choosing to be the 'lonewolf' as you describe yourself, is a very American thing to do, when you go overseas, if you go overseas, you may have to change that, so can you fit in. Either way, I have always had respect for the lone wolves with a noble cause.
That was funny, lol.
Linux, "alpha male" may not be the best way to describe the phenomena of women choosing the most aggressive guy. But, women when left to their own feelings will choose over and over again the alpha type. Unfortunately, bad boys get the benefits of that predisposition in women.
For those women who chose bad boys over good guys, she will have to go through terrible suffering, letdowns, infidelities on his part, physical battering, broken promises, STDs, vices - like drinking, smoking, snorting, drugging, If he doesn't have a job, she'll have to support him and he will take all her money from her, even spending it on other women. Leaving her and coming back again when he needs her. And finally desertion after he has used her up and she has nothing left to give.
So women who chose the bad boy, pay a high price before they learn that the better guy for her might have been a beta all along.
If she gets a rich alpha, it still will not help much, because he has the power to court any women, and to hide it from her even better. She is trapped in her palace that he endows her, weeping because she is not high on his list of priorities. He can send her away anytime if she does not fulfill his dreams.
So alpha males are not the best to rely on.