Why did it happen? How did it get like this?

[jsmith]

i accept the fact that the june cleaver era is over.



i am all for equal rights too. Some of what feminists have to say i agree with.

but after seeing winstons videos overseas with the euro women and reading his commentaries. we have to ask how did it get this way in America.

is it the fault of men? the history of men is not a good one.

http://online.wsj.com/article/SB1000142 ... 89448.html


that women have evolved into where they are now? i admit there is a problem. just now i ran into a clique of divas. chatting in their group. it looked something like this.





but they were so stuck up


Life is about making choices and we now that we have a global economy and free trade and passports and vacation time, we can CHOOSE to not deal with this.

just why? how did it get like this?

[Truthville]

jsmith?

How did this happen? Easy! It's called social conditioning! Turn everyone into a consumer and everything, including people, into mere consumable "goods," throw in an almost totally negative and paranoid mass media, condition everyone to think of themselves first, instead of the common good, tease and taunt people with the idea the the "grass is always greener," stir in a little manufactured desire for "excitement," and voila! You have the smelly, rotten tasting stew that is American culture!

You are kind of right, the history of men isn't a good one. BUT isn't interesting that the NEGATIVE always seems to be what people focus on?

What about all those nameless men whom did right by themselves, their families and their societies? Do you ever hear about them?

Almost everything we use in our daily lives was created by MEN! The first washing machine was created by a man for his wife, so she wouldn't have to break her back anymore!

I refuse to believe that everything ever created through-out history had a profit motive.

The facts jsmith, as i see them, is that people are not only tolerated but ENCOURAGED to act selfishly in this culture. To not act as such, labels you as a "wimp," a "sucker," a "loser," and a "failure". The culture encourages this, it encourages people to be low-grade sociopaths.

And you know IMHO the saddest part? We are IMPORTING this culture to other countries! Watch China, jsmith! I just read an article today on the NYTimes website about successful Chinese men not being able to marry because they don't own property. Shades of Old Rome! Welcome to Capitalism China!

TruthVille

[fschmidt]

jsmith, it got this way because women got the vote. This was men's fault for giving women the vote. If you support women having the vote, then it is your fault too.

[Adama]

They told women that men have held them down since the dawn of civilization and that all men are pigs. In the Anglo world, women do not like men. So unlike French or German cultures where women actually will have sex with you, American women are just looking to cocktease you and then look for numerous reasons to reject you.

Besides that, they were also told that having a career equals freedom from their real oppressors - men. Strangely, I consider the real oppressor to be the man who runs the system. How could it possibly be freedom to enslave yourself to some job that dictates your schedule / freedom? Somehow they think being enslaved to the man = freedom, while caring for husband and family = slavery.

When you have people this f***ed up, they dont deserve good men in their lives.


Also, they now believe they should have the benefits of chivalry (men taking all the risks, paying for everything), while maintaining all the benefits of equality (taking men's jobs, leading men in marriages and relationships rather than equality or submitting). This I blame on a long history of Anglo tradition, Victorian and Puritanical attitudes, chivalry, and the frontier attitude of scarcity of females during the settlement of the American colonies.

[jsmith]

They told women that men have held them down since the dawn of civilization and that all men are pigs. In the Anglo world, women do not like men. So unlike French or German cultures where women actually will have sex with you, American women are just looking to cocktease you and then look for numerous reasons to reject you.

Besides that, they were also told that having a career equals freedom from their real oppressors - men. Strangely, I consider the real oppressor to be the man who runs the system. How could it possibly be freedom to enslave yourself to some job that dictates your schedule / freedom? Somehow they think being enslaved to the man = freedom, while caring for husband and family = slavery.

When you have people this f***ed up, they dont deserve good men in their lives.


Also, they now believe they should have the benefits of chivalry (men taking all the risks, paying for everything), while maintaining all the benefits of equality (taking men's jobs, leading men in marriages and relationships rather than equality or submitting). This I blame on a long history of Anglo tradition, Victorian and Puritanical attitudes, chivalry, and the frontier attitude of scarcity of females during the settlement of the American colonies.

very good points. i love the "cocktease" comment.

i'm actually learning german right now, so its nice to hear that complement to their culture. thanx

that is right. Euro men and men from other cultures who come over the states must be completely floored when the see how the dating scene is. It must make them want to go jump off a roof or something. They have it so very good. they're lucky to have what they have when they're young. so many of us men in america get handicapped when we are young. And it affects our manhood.

the chivalry vs equality comment is spot on too. again atleast we have a choice in 2011. we can fight back and travel. We can do something about this.

but we can't do anything about it, the problem is to pervasive. This problem is deeply rooted in our culture and its not gonna change. Infact i think it will get worse. but we men have a choice.

[globetrotter]

It was all very gradual, and you would have to be dating for decades, never married, to notice it. If you did notice it, the differences were attributed to you being older.

From myself and friends ages 20-73:

1960. You could find a girl in HS or college, no problem. All you normal guys here who complain, you all had access to sex, a wife and a life with a good job.
1970. Women's Lib has made some changes, but for the most part everyone is still able to date. The Sexual Revolution and Hippies freed everyone to f**k, and the alphas and predators went after every woman they could. As a result between 1960 and 1981 American women become very very distrustful of men when they were not in 1960.
1981. College girls would date you, f**k you, make out with you, go back to your room, ask you out on dates. This lasted from Jan 1980 to Sept 1981.
1979-83. The one-two punch of herpes/Aids stops the sexual revolution dead.
1984. Two things, one I cannot find now - a financial metric - and the other OPRAH. Within a year she is spewing her manhate and women across North America suck it up.
1986. Girls in clubs still put out and f***ed even with AIDS known.
1989. It's changed and scaled back. Colleges have rape nights, condom giveouts, etc. The new college girls are totally brainwashed by feminist crap.
1991. The Clarence Thomas hearings put the hysteria at it's highest. Anita Hill, who kept following Thomas to further her career, decided after years that all of a sudden she did not like how he treated her though her career took off due to him.
1989-1994. Tattoos and odd piercings show up with the Alterna-Set. When Nirvana breaks out those tats and body mods begin to creep in to the rest of society. in 2011 60% of all under 25 have a tattoo.
1995. The internet begins to shape people's attitudes.
1999. The greed and avarice is beginning to bloom in Socal, NV and PHX - the big 3 sandboxes experiencing massive growth. It spreads to the rest of the USA.
2006. The RRE run up has so much money flowing around that all women expect the Moon. Many Men's Sites begin to show up on the net around this time.
2011. We get to where we are now.

[jsmith]

It was all very gradual, and you would have to be dating for decades, never married, to notice it. If you did notice it, the differences were attributed to you being older.

From myself and friends ages 20-73:

1960. You could find a girl in HS or college, no problem. All you normal guys here who complain, you all had access to sex, a wife and a life with a good job.
1970. Women's Lib has made some changes, but for the most part everyone is still able to date. The Sexual Revolution and Hippies freed everyone to f**k, and the alphas and predators went after every woman they could. As a result between 1960 and 1981 American women become very very distrustful of men when they were not in 1960.
1981. College girls would date you, f**k you, make out with you, go back to your room, ask you out on dates. This lasted from Jan 1980 to Sept 1981.
1979-83. The one-two punch of herpes/Aids stops the sexual revolution dead.
1984. Two things, one I cannot find now - a financial metric - and the other OPRAH. Within a year she is spewing her manhate and women across North America suck it up.
1986. Girls in clubs still put out and f***ed even with AIDS known.
1989. It's changed and scaled back. Colleges have rape nights, condom giveouts, etc. The new college girls are totally brainwashed by feminist crap.
1991. The Clarence Thomas hearings put the hysteria at it's highest. Anita Hill, who kept following Thomas to further her career, decided after years that all of a sudden she did not like how he treated her though her career took off due to him.
1989-1994. Tattoos and odd piercings show up with the Alterna-Set. When Nirvana breaks out those tats and body mods begin to creep in to the rest of society. in 2011 60% of all under 25 have a tattoo.
1995. The internet begins to shape people's attitudes.
1999. The greed and avarice is beginning to bloom in Socal, NV and PHX - the big 3 sandboxes experiencing massive growth. It spreads to the rest of the USA.
2006. The RRE run up has so much money flowing around that all women expect the Moon. Many Men's Sites begin to show up on the net around this time.
2011. We get to where we are now.

wow. that is a nice chronology. very well done. i see it was a very gradual process.

Like i said what has happened now (my generation of 28 year olds) is extreme Lookism. I'm African-American. I know i keep bringing that up, but within the american black race there is a civil war going on. simply put if you don't have what is considered pretty looks or a 'personality' you don't get to have friends or dates.

Cornell West has talked alot about teen suicide rates among black teens in america. Simply put alot of us learn to hate ourselves very early in life and we feel like we are not good enough (male and female)

when i was growing up the social scene was extremely toxic. Like winston has said, the environment (family included) tried to make it my fault that i wasn't enjoying growing up, instead of it taking responisbility.

In america - Lookism destroys alot of average mens lives. All women aren't super model - porn star looking beauty queens. And all meen aren't male models with a sports car.

so i look at what is happening as a byproduct of american prosperity. Sure we have great prosperity here, but we see now that even rich people kill themselves. Even a average looking guy who makes good money can go crazy, buy a rifle and go into a LA fitness and kill women, because he was so frustrated.

So again i'm glad the winston and men like him have started a movement. we don't have to deal with this diva culture that exists.

right now i'm learning german and because of the fact that i've heard great things about germany, i really want to go there.

[zboy1]

You can thank the progressives for all the liberal social policies that have led to the moral degradation of this country. Think about how this country went from the 50s to today's society and tell me this is the fault of conservatives like most libs want you to believe.

[Think Different]

It was all very gradual, and you would have to be dating for decades, never married, to notice it. If you did notice it, the differences were attributed to you being older.

From myself and friends ages 20-73:

1960. You could find a girl in HS or college, no problem. All you normal guys here who complain, you all had access to sex, a wife and a life with a good job.
1970. Women's Lib has made some changes, but for the most part everyone is still able to date. The Sexual Revolution and Hippies freed everyone to f**k, and the alphas and predators went after every woman they could. As a result between 1960 and 1981 American women become very very distrustful of men when they were not in 1960.
1981. College girls would date you, f**k you, make out with you, go back to your room, ask you out on dates. This lasted from Jan 1980 to Sept 1981.
1979-83. The one-two punch of herpes/Aids stops the sexual revolution dead.
1984. Two things, one I cannot find now - a financial metric - and the other OPRAH. Within a year she is spewing her manhate and women across North America suck it up.
1986. Girls in clubs still put out and f***ed even with AIDS known.
1989. It's changed and scaled back. Colleges have rape nights, condom giveouts, etc. The new college girls are totally brainwashed by feminist crap.
1991. The Clarence Thomas hearings put the hysteria at it's highest. Anita Hill, who kept following Thomas to further her career, decided after years that all of a sudden she did not like how he treated her though her career took off due to him.
1989-1994. Tattoos and odd piercings show up with the Alterna-Set. When Nirvana breaks out those tats and body mods begin to creep in to the rest of society. in 2011 60% of all under 25 have a tattoo.
1995. The internet begins to shape people's attitudes.
1999. The greed and avarice is beginning to bloom in Socal, NV and PHX - the big 3 sandboxes experiencing massive growth. It spreads to the rest of the USA.
2006. The RRE run up has so much money flowing around that all women expect the Moon. Many Men's Sites begin to show up on the net around this time.
2011. We get to where we are now.

wow. that is a nice chronology. very well done. i see it was a very gradual process.

Like i said what has happened now (my generation of 28 year olds) is extreme Lookism. I'm African-American. I know i keep bringing that up, but within the american black race there is a civil war going on. simply put if you don't have what is considered pretty looks or a 'personality' you don't get to have friends or dates.

Cornell West has talked alot about teen suicide rates among black teens in america. Simply put alot of us learn to hate ourselves very early in life and we feel like we are not good enough (male and female)

when i was growing up the social scene was extremely toxic. Like winston has said, the environment (family included) tried to make it my fault that i wasn't enjoying growing up, instead of it taking responisbility.

In america - Lookism destroys alot of average mens lives. All women aren't super model - porn star looking beauty queens. And all meen aren't male models with a sports car.

so i look at what is happening as a byproduct of american prosperity. Sure we have great prosperity here, but we see now that even rich people kill themselves. Even a average looking guy who makes good money can go crazy, buy a rifle and go into a LA fitness and kill women, because he was so frustrated.

So again i'm glad the winston and men like him have started a movement. we don't have to deal with this diva culture that exists.

right now i'm learning german and because of the fact that i've heard great things about germany, i really want to go there.

Forgive me for asking, as I'm not African-American and in the interest of us all mutually helping each other out, I am curious why more African-American men do not seek the beautiful black women from the Caribbean, South America, or Africa. So many of the African ladies I met living in Europe were just drop-dead gorgeous with lilting accents that make you melt. They also tended to be very smart, polite, and feminine. Are there interest groups, such as Meetup.com, where these ladies can be found here in the States? That's the first place I'd go to look for foreign ladies. Forget the clubs. That scene sucks. I might add that outside the US, interracial hookups are totally normal. I saw plenty of that at least in Western Europe, for those that are interested.

[djfourmoney]

Well Red to answer your question as best I can.

We were told to hate Africa and never were told why really other than we were better off in a White Man's world. You hear that quite a bit from racist folk, saying we would be savages in Africa if it had not been for Slavery, I fail to see the logic in that but whatever.

As for Caribbean women, many Black Men venture down to Jamaica and Dominican Republic for various reasons. I think you'll find more marriages between Caribbean Women and African-American Men on the east coast, more than the West Coast and that's a location thing I believe.

South America I'd say its a language barrier more than anything else, but more Black Men are going down to Colombia looking for brides...

[Think Different]

Well Red to answer your question as best I can.

We were told to hate Africa and never were told why really other than we were better off in a White Man's world. You hear that quite a bit from racist folk, saying we would be savages in Africa if it had not been for Slavery, I fail to see the logic in that but whatever.

Wow, that's shocking to hear. I'd never heard about that before. The sub-saharan Africans I've met have been wonderful people. I guess the establishment has been lying to the African-American community about that too, just like they've been lying to everyone else in the US about the "outer world". I've traveled the world enough and have worked "insider" jobs in the US enough to know that much of what the press and goobermint tell us is a pack of lies. I'm convinced it's to keep us dumb and enslaved to do their bidding. I've had enough. I'll be out of here in a month or so anyway. There's a "virtual Berlin Wall" around the US, and it's getting higher, faster.

[The_Adventurer]

Forgive me for asking, as I'm not African-American and in the interest of us all mutually helping each other out, I am curious why more African-American men do not seek the beautiful black women from the Caribbean, South America, or Africa. So many of the African ladies I met living in Europe were just drop-dead gorgeous with lilting accents that make you melt. They also tended to be very smart, polite, and feminine. Are there interest groups, such as Meetup.com, where these ladies can be found here in the States? That's the first place I'd go to look for foreign ladies. Forget the clubs. That scene sucks. I might add that outside the US, interracial hookups are totally normal. I saw plenty of that at least in Western Europe, for those that are interested.

I can tell you, from my point of view, that I considered it. Before making my exodus from the US in 2008, I had considered Ghana and Kenya as possible destinations. They are, in some aspects, as cheap as or cheaper than Philippines. What did it, in the end, for me, aside from reading this site which focused on Philippines, was reading about the lack of quality internet services in those countries, which was crucial to my supporting myself. Also, the Philippines proximity to Japan, where I expected to be selling my work, and its very lax visa issues, made it the winner.

DJ is right, though, that we are taught to hate Africa and anything African. The US media will never show any real cities with real life , people driving nice cars, and living in real houses. When I was growing up, calling someone African was an insult. American, and much of the world is still totally uneducated about Africa. It is huge and contains many separate and unrelated countries, yet it is always referred to as one place with one overall image.

In traveling I have met many Africans. In fact, out here, when I meet a black person it is rarely an American. The guys are meet wear suits, are often very educated, speak English better than most guys I went to school with, and are out to achieve something in life.

[djfourmoney]

Forgive me for asking, as I'm not African-American and in the interest of us all mutually helping each other out, I am curious why more African-American men do not seek the beautiful black women from the Caribbean, South America, or Africa. So many of the African ladies I met living in Europe were just drop-dead gorgeous with lilting accents that make you melt. They also tended to be very smart, polite, and feminine. Are there interest groups, such as Meetup.com, where these ladies can be found here in the States? That's the first place I'd go to look for foreign ladies. Forget the clubs. That scene sucks. I might add that outside the US, interracial hookups are totally normal. I saw plenty of that at least in Western Europe, for those that are interested.

I can tell you, from my point of view, that I considered it. Before making my exodus from the US in 2008, I had considered Ghana and Kenya as possible destinations. They are, in some aspects, as cheap as or cheaper than Philippines. What did it, in the end, for me, aside from reading this site which focused on Philippines, was reading about the lack of quality internet services in those countries, which was crucial to my supporting myself. Also, the Philippines proximity to Japan, where I expected to be selling my work, and its very lax visa issues, made it the winner.

DJ is right, though, that we are taught to hate Africa and anything African. The US media will never show any real cities with real life , people driving nice cars, and living in real houses. When I was growing up, calling someone African was an insult. American, and much of the world is still totally uneducated about Africa. It is huge and contains many separate and unrelated countries, yet it is always referred to as one place with one overall image.

In traveling I have met many Africans. In fact, out here, when I meet a black person it is rarely an American. The guys are meet wear suits, are often very educated, speak English better than most guys I went to school with, and are out to achieve something in life.

Well in the African-American Community there is much Crab theory, you don't want to see others succeed because then you'll be forced to succeed.

I see willful ignorance everyday I spend in places like Long Beach, Compton, Carson (to a lesser extent) and South Los Angeles. Our society is designed to keep poor people poor without extraordinary circumstances. It is very much the crab theory, if you are born poor I think you have a better than 60% of being poor yourself, making the same mistakes other have.

Not finishing high school, having children as a teenager happens at such a rate its staggering.

Its going to take a ground up changing to move forward. But it starts and ends with Black Women. They have to be more responsible and not let off the hook. You're going to have men that are irresponsible, that's a given but women can keep their legs shut... It will take another great leader from our community, not from a middle class background like Obama. Who or when that comes, who knows.

[globetrotter]

Well in the African-American Community there is much Crab theory, you don't want to see others succeed because then you'll be forced to succeed.

I honestly do not understand this.

When I was 14 I told my mother that I no longer wanted to go to church or CCD {Confraternity of Christian Doctrine}. I nagged her for 3 months. She relented.

When I was 15 I began to listen to Punk Rock. I would wear punk t-shirts to school. I also listened to Marley and P-Funk. This was 1976/77. In Northern Virginia. I had friends who hung Confederate flags on their bedroom wall.

It was not an ironic gesture.

I would get punched in the hall for listening to 'that new wave punk rock faggot shit' and to 'nigger music'.

I simply don't understand this conformity thing. I was a weak, tall, skinny kid and had bruised arms because of my choices, yet I did not cave to peer pressure, and I was 14/15.

It doesn't take much for someone to look around, decide that everyone is full of shit, that the local values are bullshit, and for one to think, act and live for themselves.

[odbo]

the peer pressure gets worse every year. children today have no chance. maybe 1 out of every 100 will make it out 12 years of public education "alive".