About the Philippines...

[chanta76]

OK..I never visited the Philippines but I like to in the future. I just have some questions about that country.

It's kind of well known that many expat men go to the Philippines because of the low cost of living and also for the women. Is there allot of expats living in the Philippines? And since they frequent the bars and chase girls (I could be wrong) don't the expats there kind of spoil the girls there?

I have another question. I really think it's all social economics . I mean if the Philippines became just as rich and develop like South Korea or even Japan. Than the filipina girls have more options and the night life or filipina wanting to be with an older western men will diminish.

This is what happened to South Korea. I mean it's good that Korea became richer and as it did Korean women became less incline to seek a western men( but there is some Korean women who seek non-Koreans) .

[chanta76]

Also being Asian (I'm not white but actually Korean descent) how well would I do there in the Philippines? I'm not interested in the bar scene or sex tourism.

I mean if I could take some time off and live in the Philippines for 2-3 months can I find a nice decent local girl? I hear that white western guys have it made over there and could just go to a mall and find someone to date. But because I look Asian ( the local girls might think me being Filipino) I would think I have disadvantage.

I read some of Winston travels in the Philippines but no offense he focus allot on the bar scene. I'm talking about regular girls. If I was in a mall would I be able to have some success if I do approaches there?

[Taco]

Also being Asian (I'm not white but actually Korean descent) how well would I do there in the Philippines? I'm not interested in the bar scene or sex tourism.

I mean if I could take some time off and live in the Philippines for 2-3 months can I find a nice decent local girl? I hear that white western guys have it made over there and could just go to a mall and find someone to date. But because I look Asian ( the local girls might think me being Filipino) I would think I have disadvantage.

I read some of Winston travels in the Philippines but no offense he focus allot on the bar scene. I'm talking about regular girls. If I was in a mall would I be able to have some success if I do approaches there?

Your ethnicity will not be an obstacle for you in PI. As long a you have a pulse you'll have no problem getting dates in Cebu at least.

[Winston]

Your race is not a problem. There are tons of Koreans here, everywhere. I don't know why they come here. But they tend to get hotter Filipinas than the white guys here do. So that works in your favor.

I date a lot of non-bar girls too, even off of http://www.dateinasia.com

The problem isn't that you can't date non-bar girls. The problem is that pretty much all the girls you date will be very poor and low class and not even be able to buy a coke around you, unless you pay for it.

When I say poor, I don't mean "I only have a few thousand dollars in the bank" or "I only have a few hundred dollars in the bank". No. I mean so poor that "I can't even buy a burger unless you pay for it, or I borrow money from someone".

That is just insane. What it means is that you will be leeched off of like crazy. You will have to foot the bill for everything. It's VERY UNFAIR of course, but that's the way it is. The middle class girls tend to only date Filipinos and are closed and cliquish. You will sense a wall between you and them.

What this means, unfortunately, is that the friendship between the foreigner and Filipino is not really a true friendship. Think about it. If someone only wants to be with you when they are so poor that they can't buy a burger or coke unless you pay for it, then how genuine is that? It's not. Such a friendship is motivated by need or survival instinct. It cannot be true, for as soon as they have money, they will prefer their own kind and have no interest in you.

See what I mean? Think about it and it becomes obvious.

Those are the grim facts. But yes you can get tons of dates and fun and attention and phone numbers, etc. but they will all be with very poor girls who can't even pay for a burger.

Plus you will be assigned a Santa Claus role in that you will be expected to be a giving generous foreigner who loves to GIVE, GIVE, and GIVE, and you will be treated like it. This means you will be totally stereotyped, whether you like it or not.

Typical poor Filipinas are simple, sweet and easy going. But they are also uneducated, unworldly, dumb, and cannot converse on many topics, understanding only the simplest practical things.

Some guys don't mind that and are happy with simple and dumb girls. But others get tired of that. In general though, there are a lot of retarded people here. In America, I'm never misunderstood by a waitress. But here, I'm misunderstood by them all the time.

All in all, yes girls are easy to get here, but they will all be low quality ones who are so poor that they can't even buy a burger unless you pay for it.

Rock and others here have reported the same thing.

[chanta76]

So what's so great about the Philippines.

And with the middle class filipina. Is it that hard to get with them? I imagine that American women are allot worst than they are.

I agree allot of it is social economics. That is why these girls want to be with foreign men for a better life. I think for some men they are OK with that because it is a trade off.

[Repatriate]

The reason why the Phillipines is attractive for a lot of expats is because there isn't much of a cultural barrier there for initial entry as an expat. Urban Filipinos are thoroughly westernized and the culture is very western-centric with American culture being popular and accepted into the mainstream. The downside is that Filipinos by and large have retained the worst aspects of American culture and also maintain a lot of annoying aspects of SE Asian culture as well. I find a lot of Filipinos I meet to be outwardly educated but unable to converse on deep topics or think independently.

SE Asians in general are all similar in this regard. You won't find very much intellectualism and relationships tend to be skin deep a lot of times.

On the other hand you won't have problems finding girls to date. But just be aware that it's a class orientated system there and they adhere to that.

[Winston]

So what's so great about the Philippines.

And with the middle class filipina. Is it that hard to get with them? I imagine that American women are allot worst than they are.

I agree allot of it is social economics. That is why these girls want to be with foreign men for a better life. I think for some men they are OK with that because it is a trade off.

Well not much. The girls are nice and smile a lot and seem very relaxed. But again, we are talking about the poor class. And like Repatriate said, there is less of a language barrier. But even with that, it is still hard to communicate if you have special needs, such as you are a vegetarian. Filipina waitresses hate answering questions and hate thinking. They just want to take your order and leave. But when I ask them to make sure that a certain dish doesn't have meat, it makes them confused and stressed. It upsets their routine. And if they can't understand my question, I have to repeat it over and over again while thinking of a simpler way to put it.

Ask Rock. He's seen it. He even asked a waitress one time, "Have you ever had a customer ask as many questions as him?" and she said, "No." But the truth is, I was only asking one or two questions. It's just that she wasn't getting it, so I kept trying to find another way to phrase the question. But she still wasn't getting it and had a clueless face on her.

This happens often in the Philippines, and it's annoying. In America, I never have that problem with waitresses. They always understand me and I only have to ask everything once. Filipinas only understand the simplest English at best. If you need to ask specifics on something, that's where the problem starts.

Yeah it's hard to get with middle class Filipinas. I mean it's possible. But it won't happen easily or anytime you want. Momopi's friend married a middle to upper class Filipina. So it's possible. But they met in the US. Some can be nice. But they still prefer their own kind.

American women are worse in that they are fake and have more complexes. But American women don't have as much of a class mentality as middle class Filipinas do.

Yes you can see it as a tradeoff. But really, it's a tradeoff where you DESCEND DOWN. In effect, you are lowering yourself when you become a sugar daddy to a poor girl just so you can have a partner. It's degrading. People look down on that too. Why would you want to do that though? Why not date someone of your own class? That's far more equal and complementary.

It's not just a tradeoff. The types of guys who become sugar daddies to Filipinas are the type of guys who ENJOY being one. They ENJOY giving free money to poor Filipinas and their families. It makes them feel good. Ladislav and Larry Elterman are two examples of such types of guys. They feel happy being sugar daddies. I'm not that type of guy at all. So in that sense, I don't fit the role like they do. To me, giving away free money is like losing blood. It hurts each time. Thus, I'm not a good fit here.

Btw, I would not say that many Filipinos are "outwardly educated" as Repatriate claimed. Perhaps he got lucky and met the bright ones, but I have met very few such types. They are good with practical things like home repair, fixing trikes and jeepneys, etc. But they can't share ideas and thoughts. Or discuss philosophy. Or take a position and support it. They cannot even give good directions. They aren't good at giving step by step instructions. But they are good at performing practical things like driving in heavy traffic or cleaning or fixing things in the home.

[chanta76]

Winston Wu,

Wow...So Philippines didn't measure up to what your looking for. I remember reading some of your exploits in Russia and how it didn't work for you.
Where do you go from here? If not RUssia , and soon the Philippines are no good. Where to? You don't like CHina , or even Taiwan. South America?

I imagine Philippines has all the problems you mention. I guess I hear stories of some western guys marrying filipina and being happy. I don't know...I mean maybe it work for them. I don't know.

[Winston]

Winston Wu,

Wow...So Philippines didn't measure up to what your looking for. I remember reading some of your exploits in Russia and how it didn't work for you.
Where do you go from here? If not RUssia , and soon the Philippines are no good. Where to? You don't like CHina , or even Taiwan. South America?

I imagine Philippines has all the problems you mention. I guess I hear stories of some western guys marrying filipina and being happy. I don't know...I mean maybe it work for them. I don't know.

Well it does measure up and give you what you want, in the short term. But long term is a different story. I don't know where I go from here. The unknown is the fun part, isn't it?

Yes there are many happy stories of western guys marrying Filipinas. But like I said, those type of guys are usually:

1) A lot older than their Filipina partners.
2) The type that enjoys being a sugar daddy and giving free money to his Filipina so that she can give it to her family. These types do not mind being used or treated like a walking ATM machine. I don't know why. But that type of guy is the norm here in Angeles City. I am a freak for not being like them. They also like to splurge and buy their Filipina dates expensive new cell phones and digital cameras.
3) Satisfied with simple dumb Filipinas with no opinions, and do not need a girl with brains.

You gotta ask yourself, do you fit into that type?

Amazingly, plenty of guys here do fit into that type, which surprises me cause in America I don't know any guy who fits that type. But in the Philippines, almost every guy does, so much so that I feel like a freak for not being of this type.

I don't know why. But some guys really do enjoy being walking ATM machines. It's really weird. I can't understand those guys. I've never seen them in America, but I see them here everywhere.

[Winston]

Winston Wu,

Wow...So Philippines didn't measure up to what your looking for. I remember reading some of your exploits in Russia and how it didn't work for you.
Where do you go from here? If not RUssia , and soon the Philippines are no good. Where to? You don't like CHina , or even Taiwan. South America?

I imagine Philippines has all the problems you mention. I guess I hear stories of some western guys marrying filipina and being happy. I don't know...I mean maybe it work for them. I don't know.

Where do I go from here? Maybe on a quest/crusade to find a Chinese princess/sweetheart who looks like this...

[Rock]

Winston Wu,

Wow...So Philippines didn't measure up to what your looking for. I remember reading some of your exploits in Russia and how it didn't work for you.
Where do you go from here? If not RUssia , and soon the Philippines are no good. Where to? You don't like CHina , or even Taiwan. South America?

I imagine Philippines has all the problems you mention. I guess I hear stories of some western guys marrying filipina and being happy. I don't know...I mean maybe it work for them. I don't know.

Yes, you have just hit on the real irony of Winston's website and the movement it supports.

Happier Abroad? Where abroad has the founder found total happiness? Russia/CIS? not really. Girls aren't physically attracted to him and P4P is expensive so not much sex or romance for him there, a sure deal breaker.

So how about one of the easiest places in the world - the PI? Well, it turns out the place is full of conservative (often prudish) class conscious girls who prefer their own kind. But, its so poor, you can still get plenty of 'dates' and 'romance' as long as you don't mind playing Santa Claus. But wait, the founder does not like playing the sugar daddy role. Moreover, he's an intellectual who thrives in a cool damp climates with clean air. In contrast, PI is a hot, humid and very dirty environment full of peasant like people who have no capacity or interest in deep thinking or discussions. So if abroad = PI and the founder is our case study, than perhaps "Miserable Abroad" would be a much more fitting title for the website.

This is why I sometimes play devil's advocate and poor cold water on over-enthusiasm. The bullet point comparisons you make between America and 'abroad' listed on the Home Page are extreme and idealistic over-generalizations which wrongly lump 'abroad' as one country. The reality is, all countries and cities have good and bad points which influence our overall mental state (happiness, misery, etc.) at a given point in time. Winston, I don't see how you can deny that currently, you are 'very miserable abroad'. Ironically, your solution is to go to the very country which has been so vilified on this site.

As the creator of the "Happier Abroad", ask yourself, what part of Abroad can I, Winston Wu, find long term happiness. Which country in the world would satisfy all my needs while being accessible and affordable to me? Is "Happier Abroad" just a fantasy which exits solely in my head?

[Winston]

Rock,
To be more accurate, it's "miserable in the PI", not "miserable abroad". As you said, abroad is a big place, not one country.

I was happier abroad at one point in the PI and in Russia. Don't forget that. One can be happier abroad in the short term, but the long term is another story. One can get tired of something after several years, you know. That's natural. There's no such thing as "happily ever after".

There's no such thing as total happiness. But one can be happier. The truth is that for approaching women, Russia and the PI are still much easier than in the US. It's just that there is more to life than women...

Which part of my comparison points on the home page do you feel is inaccurate? I'm pretty sure it is still accurate. I can name many countries that fit those comparison points.

Besides me, there are other expats here who are "happier abroad".

[Repatriate]

Btw, I would not say that many Filipinos are "outwardly educated" as Repatriate claimed. Perhaps he got lucky and met the bright ones, but I have met very few such types. They are good with practical things like home repair, fixing trikes and jeepneys, etc. But they can't share ideas and thoughts. Or discuss philosophy. Or take a position and support it. They cannot even give good directions. They aren't good at giving step by step instructions. But they are good at performing practical things like driving in heavy traffic or cleaning or fixing things in the home.

Just to clarify a bit, but what I meant by "outwardly educated" is that most Filipinas i've met abroad speak decent english and have a college education. This is in comparison to some middle class Thai college grads who can barely string together 5 words in english and act confused with the most rudimentary common sense issues. If you compare these two nationalities i'd say Filipinas are still way more educated.

[Winston]

Rock,
I love the way you put this about me and the PI. It's so hilarious, witty and ironic. I can't stop cracking up over it. LOL

"But wait, the founder does not like playing the sugar daddy role. Moreover, he's an intellectual who thrives in a cool damp climates with clean air. In contrast, PI is a hot, humid and very dirty environment full of peasant like people who have no capacity or interest in deep thinking or discussions. "

Alright, I do admit that it was a big mistake to get rooted in Angeles City. Places like this are like a vortex of misery that sucks you in and wants you to be miserable with it. Once you get sucked and rooted, it's hard to get out. The vortex finds all sorts of ways to get you trapped.

But I simply chose a bad place. It was fun for a while. But eventually, my tolerance ran out for all the negative things here. I am not a superhuman and my tolerance is limited, not unlimited. Rock, you should try spending a few months here and see how you like it.

Anyway, how many Chinese/Taiwanese guys do you know, Rock, who are compatible with Filipinos? There are many Chinese Filipinos here, so they must have interbred at some point. But the thing is, Asians are clannish. They resonate best with their own kind. With Filipinos I do not feel any closeness or resonance with them at an emotional or psychological level, like I do with Chinese. When I met a Chinese girl from CouchSurfing here one time, I immediately noticed that there was more of an immediate bond and resonance with her that I didn't have with Filipinos. You could call it a "natural closeness". It's hard to explain, but that's the best I can do with words.

So, I can play the clannish card and claim that I prefer my own kind as well. Even Dianne often says that it would have been better had she been with a Filipino guy, cause there would not be so many misunderstandings as there are with a foreign guy like me. A Filipino guy would have a cultural bond and understanding with her, she says, that a foreigner could never have.

Perhaps deep down, at a genetic level, we belong with our own kind?

What do you think?

[Rock]

Rock,
Alright, I do admit that it was a big mistake to get rooted in Angeles City. Places like this are like a vortex of misery that sucks you in and wants you to be miserable with it. Once you get sucked and rooted, it's hard to get out. The vortex finds all sorts of ways to get you trapped.

But I simply chose a bad place. It was fun for a while. But eventually, my tolerance ran out for all the negative things here. I am not a superhuman and my tolerance is limited, not unlimited. Rock, you should try spending a few months here and see how you like it.

Anyway, how many Chinese/Taiwanese guys do you know, Rock, who are compatible with Filipinos? There are many Chinese Filipinos here, so they must have interbred at some point. But the thing is, Asians are clannish. They resonate best with their own kind. With Filipinos I do not feel any closeness or resonance with them at an emotional or psychological level, like I do with Chinese. When I met a Chinese girl from CouchSurfing here one time, I immediately noticed that there was more of an immediate bond and resonance with her that I didn't have with Filipinos. You could call it a "natural closeness". It's hard to explain, but that's the best I can do with words.

So, I can play the clannish card and claim that I prefer my own kind as well. Even Dianne often says that it would have been better had she been with a Filipino guy, cause there would not be so many misunderstandings as there are with a foreign guy like me. A Filipino guy would have a cultural bond and understanding with her, she says, that a foreigner could never have.

Perhaps deep down, at a genetic level, we belong with our own kind?

What do you think?

I don't know. But even if its so, there are exceptions. For example, I've met white guys (and white girls) who fit in more naturally with the black community and vice-versa. Taiwan has a subset of people who are totally westernized in their thinking, even more so than a lot of ABCs. Some of them don't even have Chinese friends.

Based on what I know about you, I predict that if you go to China, you may be able to attract some cute or even hot local females, especially if you get your act together. But, the locals will probably annoy you even more than the Taiwanese do after you spend some time there. Your experience will of course vary depending on where you go but I think the people are generally on a different wavelength than you.

Your heart or spirit seems to fit in best with parts of Europe. But the problem there is that costs are high and women are generally not available to you. Perhaps parts of Latin American would suit you as well. Sometime, we should have a brainstorming session on the forum to figure out the best next happier abroad destination for Winston.

BTW Winston, you need to figure out a way to try out a place for a couple of months and if you see that its not good for the long term, bail before you get stuck in a rut there.