Is PUA the best we can do?

[MrPeabody]

I have been going through a reevaluation of PUA after discussing it here. I took one of the first courses in this many years ago, before the "PUA" was even a word and then left just before it started to become a serious movement. I have since been reading some of the material to see how it has progressed.

Let's look at the alternative - MGTOW. I find this movement to be hugely negative with just a lot of whining and complaining, and no action. Even worse, they have become anti-female. I have participated in some of these sites because I am "anti feminist" , however I have never been anti female. Much of this negativity has even spilled over to this site which is suppose to be the "Happier Abroad" solution. It is really weird to see a post on how evil women are and the poster's avatar is a naked bimbo with bouncing boobs. This almost suggests a split personality. I mean, if someone hates Hitler, it would be incongruent for him to have Hitler as his Avatar.

The thing I find good about PUA is that it is a positive solution. The men concentrate on removing their own limitations and strengthening their minds. Reducing one's approach anxiety is valuable even if you don't get a woman. They are focused on solutions and don't wallow in negativity. This is a manly solution. Men are building skills and confronting their fears rather then complaining. So, how can one argue with this?

Furthermore, even if you go abroad, PUA will be useful to you. If you are shy and socially incompetent, when you go abroad you will end up with the most aggressive woman, rather than the woman you chose. And this will not be likely to end up good for you. You can also get in a bad situation where you are being used as an ATM by an extended family. I married a Colombian woman and divorced. I had a huge advantage in Colombia and the situation eventually equalized and changed when we came to the US. I now realize that a man always has to be on top of his game and have a strong, disciplined, and purified mind to survive in any situation.

The main advantage of going abroad is in the area of "social proofing". The Mystery method, which focuses on social dynamics, talks about the necessity of "social proofing" , demonstrating to a woman that you are valuable in the social hierarchy. In many third world countries you will have met "social proof" with many women just because you are a gringo. This is your main advantage. However, if you want to meet high quality middle and upper class women, you still will need to find someway of getting into the social networks. Going abroad can actually end up being harder then dating in America because of 1) problem of filtering out women with agenda, 2) language barriers, 3) being an outsider, and 4) in some countries, overcoming the negative social proof of being suspected of being another sex tourist.

I find that the "Mystery Method" with its emphasis on social dynamics to be informative, because this is how the world really works. I recommend staying away from the NLP based seduction stuff because NLP is bullshit, and sticking with some of this new material which focuses on common sense. Also, try to make it cheap, because PUA is full of shysters, but you can buy books and find ways to get stuff free or high quality inexpensive products. I also strongly recommend, for serious mind training, that men start a meditation practice. Meditation is powerful and there is now a ton of scientific evidence that it restructures the brain is a positive direction. Many meditation places are free, but accept donations.

[DarrenFW]

Your original question "Can we do better?" I believe strongly that the answer is yes.

I told Steve Neese this as well. We have something here. And with people from diverse backgrounds and ideas, we can build something that works and lasts.

Winston has a wealth of knowledge and was early to recognize the this idea.
I am really impressed with Steve (Steve55)'s research and he's very organized.

What does HA/Global Dating offer?

- First Results. Unlike PUA, HA offers long term and short term relationships.
PUA offers sex but is unable to deliver on it.

- With HA, we also have increased survival of long term dating/marriage *(20% divorce rate per Steve's article)

- We have a secret that not many people know about.

- We have a unique view of the world.

- There is a DIRECTION to HA (and that is to get with foreign women) as opposed to other movements where all the men do is complain and grumble.

- You can still do PUA type approaches but you don't need their philosophy. Their philosophy is junk because it is based on the assumption that ALL women are the same and based on American female stereotypes.
Mystery's Survival and Replication stuff still applies but in a truer sense.
(Men overseas have value).
So alot of the philosophy can be thrown out because it just doesn't work or isn't true in a global sense.

- We also offer a Simplification on the dating problem of the U.S. And that can be expressed simply: Go overseas and find better, sweeter, more sexy girls who will love you for who you are!

So Yes we can do better.

-D

[Grunt]

Well, 10 years ago I was on fire with righteous indignation and hungry for justice. Now I am happily married, to a foreign girl of course, and I have had more time to review the statistics. All in all, feminism is a monumental failure not only for men, but for women as well. Take a peek at the spiraling marriage rates and you will see how dire things are for the ladies, but how awesome they are for us guys.

But of course in every subculture we have the good ole' lunatic fringe. On the right, we have the MGTOW nutters. Women being the enemy and all. Every single one of them, apparently. The MGTOW philosophy is to plant your head firmly in the sand where you can peruse the gay porn selection in peace.

On the left we have the PUA clowns. The PUA crowd is living proof that when the going gets weird, the weird turn pro. (kudos to the late, great Hunter S. Thompson for that one). The mentality of the entire PUA set is essentially identical to that of the Special Olympics. Even if you win, your still retarded.

I am in my early 40's now, so the best I can muster is sitting in my easy chair with a 6-pack and a bowl of popcorn. I have found that there is little point is giving advise to people who are genetically incapable of understanding it. So I subscribe to the notion that life will teach you everything you need to know. I graduated from the school of hard knocks. I paid the price, but I would not exchange my "education" for anything.

In the end, any damn fool can get a college degree. Yet it is a rare man indeed that truly knows what end goes up.

[Jackal]

The thing I find good about PUA is that it is a positive solution. The men concentrate on removing their own limitations and strengthening their minds. Reducing one's approach anxiety is valuable even if you don't get a woman. They are focused on solutions and don't wallow in negativity. This is a manly solution. Men are building skills and confronting their fears rather then complaining. So, how can one argue with this?

I agree with the general direction of your thoughts, but there's no need to call all this "PUA"--we can just go back to the good old days and call this "self-improvement" or "self-help."

I am all for self-improvement. Nothing happens without a cause. And to achieve a specific goal, you must first create the causes to achieve it.

The thing I dislike about PUA is the hype. For example, getting in shape will improve your odds with women somewhat, but it won't them all magically fall in love with you, and the same goes for many other techniques.

I think what is needed is realistic self-improvement ideas and strategies combined with a realistic outlook.

[MrPeabody]

The thing I find good about PUA is that it is a positive solution. The men concentrate on removing their own limitations and strengthening their minds. Reducing one's approach anxiety is valuable even if you don't get a woman. They are focused on solutions and don't wallow in negativity. This is a manly solution. Men are building skills and confronting their fears rather then complaining. So, how can one argue with this?

I agree with the general direction of your thoughts, but there's no need to call all this "PUA"--we can just go back to the good old days and call this "self-improvement" or "self-help."

I am all for self-improvement. Nothing happens without a cause. And to achieve a specific goal, you must first create the causes to achieve it.

The thing I dislike about PUA is the hype. For example, getting in shape will improve your odds with women somewhat, but it won't them all magically fall in love with you, and the same goes for many other techniques.

I think what is needed is realistic self-improvement ideas and strategies combined with a realistic outlook.

I agree. The things that PUA added to the old style “how to pick up a girl� approach is 1) a greater emphasis on inner game and mind training along with a more sophisticated analysis of social dynamics, and skill building and 2) forming groups of men to go out and practice with each other. The big negative is the marketing – they have to overpromise and make ridiculous claims to get customers in a competitive field. I think the emphasis on eliminating “approach anxiety� in highly valuable and will benefit a man in all areas of his life. The danger of PUA is that it can harden the false mask and ultimately separate a man from his power. I think this can be counterbalanced with a meditation practice to move the mind more into Being mode where prepared material can eventually be abandoned.

“Until there is surrender, unconscious role-playing constitutes a large part of human interaction. In surrender, you no longer need ego defenses and false masks. You become very simple, very real. ‘That’s dangerous’, says the ego. ‘You’ll get hurt. You’ll become vulnerable’. What the ego doesn’t know, of course, is that only through the letting go of resistance, through becoming ‘vulnerable’ can you discover your true and essential invulnerability... What the ego sees as weakness is your Being in its purity, innocence, and power. So the ego exists in a continuous resistance-mode and plays counterfeit roles to cover up your ‘weakness’ which in truth is your power�

Eckhart Tolle

[Sexter]

there are plenty of other options other than PUA.

PUA is nearly useless in the USA, if you don't mind getting flaky numbers/bf objections/cockblocks/girls losing attention span/etc. do PUA

Do PUA sparingly(it's friday/saturday night, you aint got shit to do, so you might as well go out grab a beer and meet girls)

BUt when it comes to doing it on a daily basis, you be frustrated. TRUST ME ON THIS.

PUA doesn't work in the USA as much as other countries.

[Bane]

I agree with Mr. Peabody here. I think PUA gets a bad rap on these forums (for good reason in many cases) but I find that certain parts of it (especially the Inner Game/AA material) is absolutely essential for a man to have greater success with women. I mean, if you don't believe in yourself and have confidence in your abilities, what can you expect to accomplish?

I do think that other aspects of PUA, such as "peacocking" and the rehearsed canned openers, are ridiculous and almost never work. These types of techniques at most will attract certain types of women (the drunk/slutty/loud mouthed party types) that I wouldn't touch with a 10 foot pole.

I've read several PUA books, my favorite is John Alexander's "How to Be an Alpha Male." The material in this book doesn't sound fake or canned, it talks about acceptable, non-cheesy things you can do to improve your interactions with women, and I don't think the author tries to scam you by buying more of his products, unlike people like David DeAngelo. I could be wrong, but I think HTBAAM is the only book Alexander ever wrote.