have2fly - Standards of Beauty in Ukraine

polya · Post by **polya** » September 27th, 2011, 12:25 pm

This thread has made me doubt there's much hope for US men: there's not going to be any men's movement appearing anytime soon to further the trampled rights of US men.

Why do men have this attitude of putting down other guys & not being supportive to eachother?? From what I've seen of women's TV shows (like Oprah) and feminist groups they never put other women down or call them "dykes", but here guys call each other homosexual or fags and generally fight eachother every chance they get.

Guys are going to have to copy women because they've been so successful in creating laws to help women - we are going to have to organise and support one-another or women WILL take even more of our rights and men will just be "walking-wallets" for their divorced wife & children with no rights.

eurobrat · Post by **eurobrat** » September 27th, 2011, 1:29 pm

LarryLaffer · Post by **LarryLaffer** » September 27th, 2011, 3:20 pm

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I have developed 3 theories as to possible differences between how American men and Ukrainian men view women. I want to test these theories by seeing how the Ukrainian men, have2fly, Google, and ladislav, view the below photos.

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1. American men have a strong preference for blond hair.

American men strongly prefer women with blond hair while Ukrainian men either care little for blond hair or not at all.

2. American men are less bothered by large noses.

American men are less bothered by large, long or pointy noses than Ukrainian men. That isn't to say that American men like large, long, or pointy noses. Men in general prefer smaller noses. It is just that we aren't bothered by them as much.

3. American men are less bothered by masculine features.

Ladislav pointed out that American men aren't as bothered by women who look somewhat more masculine:

ladislav wrote: I guess American women do not look masculine to most American guys as the butch look is all they know and see and they have no point of reference.

While American men obviously would prefer more feminine looking women, I think that ladislav is correct that American men aren't as bothered by somewhat masculine looking women. I think that is because the few women who aren't overweight in the US are usually the ones who are very athletic, and extreme athleticism seems to make women look less feminine. But since athletic women are among the few women of normal weight, American men tolerate jock type girls and are even attracted to them as they are at least not fat.

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To test these theories, here are some pictures of two women who, by American eyes, are attractive, like an 8 or higher despite having some flaws: Barbra Streisand when she was young and Swedish athlete Carolina KlÃ¼ft.

Barbra Streisand
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Barbra_Streisand

Carolina Kluft
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Carolina_Kl%C3%BCft

When Barbra Streisand was young, most American guys found her attractive despite having a somewhat large nose.
She was in the movie "The Way We Were" alongside Robert Redford.

The Way We Were
http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0070903/

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Pictures of Barbra Streisand when she was young
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http://cigalemistralavande.c.i.pic.cent ... bi080q.jpg

http://content8.flixster.com/photo/13/6 ... 10_gal.jpg

http://www.cornel1801.com/1/b/Barbra_St ... d_1942.jpg

Trailer of the movie "The Way We Were" with Barbra Streisand:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8BJFwzls8-s
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Pictures of Carolina Kluft
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http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AfMYfp8_0Q0

http://img.dailymail.co.uk/i/pix/2007/0 ... 68x529.jpg

http://static.blogstorage.hi-pi.com/pho ... -Kluft.jpg

http://newsimg.bbc.co.uk/media/images/4 ... tty416.jpg

http://www.malextra.com/image-library/p ... t-wi07.jpg

http://www.runnerslife.co.uk/uploads/Ro ... ft_003.jpg

http://2.bp.blogspot.com/_ov6z2TwdHKg/T ... 00-257.jpg

http://www.dn.se/images/2011/08/26/Caro ... ft-416.jpg

http://200.mywallpapers.org/files/wallp ... ft-013.jpg

http://img002.lazygirls.info/people/car ... .thumb.jpg

http://wheretruthlies.com/drupal/sites/ ... review.jpg

http://newsimg.bbc.co.uk/media/images/4 ... tty416.jpg

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To Ukrainians have2fly, Google, and ladislav, please tell me how you would rate the young photos of Barbra Streisand and Carolina Kluft.

To an American guy they are both 8 out of 10. To what extent is my theory correct? Both women have flaws but the flaws they have are tolerable flaws to American guys. Barbra has a large nose and Carolina's features seem to have been affected by vigorous exercise. Women who exercise a great deal seem to develop these jocklike facial features which somewhat reduce their attractiveness. However, it is a flaw that most American men would be willing to live with. Plus, Carolina Kluft has naturally light blond hair which most American men find very attractive. The hair color that Carolina Kluft has is ideal. She even has natural light blond eyebrows which is very attractive. To my eyes, both women are very attractive despite their flaws, at least an 8 out of 10. If I found women in Eastern Europe who looked like them, what would the Eastern European guys think of them? Would they be hard to get and in high demand or would the Ukrainian or other East European guys not like them?

Please rate them:
RATINGS ADDED
Barbra Streisand young__(have2fly rating 2.0) (Google rating 7.0 to 7.5) (ladislav rating 4.0) My Rating: 8.0

Carolina Kluft__________(have2fly rating 1.0) (Google rating 3.0 to 3.5) (ladislav rating 3.5 to 4.0) My Rating: 8.5

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Google · Post by **Google** » September 27th, 2011, 6:01 pm

LarryLaffer wrote: To Ukrainians have2fly, Google, and ladislav, please tell me how you would rate the young photos of Barbra Streisand and Carolina Kluft.

To an American guy they are both 8 out of 10. To what extent is my theory correct? Both women have flaws but the flaws they have are tolerable flaws to American guys. Barbra has a large nose and Carolina's features seem to have been affected by vigorous exercise. Women who exercise a great deal seem to develop these jocklike facial features which somewhat reduce their attractiveness. However, it is a flaw that most American men would be willing to live with. Plus, Carolina Kluft has naturally light blond hair which most American men find very attractive. The hair color that Carolina Kluft has is ideal. She even has natural light blond eyebrows which is very attractive. To my eyes, both women are very attractive despite their flaws, at least an 8 out of 10. If I found women in Eastern Europe who looked like them, what would the Eastern European guys think of them? Would they be hard to get and in high demand or would the Ukrainian or other East European guys not like them?

Please rate them:

Barbra Streisand young__(have2fly rating ___) (Google rating ___) (ladislav rating ___) My Rating: 8.0

Carolina Kluft__________(have2fly rating ___) (Google rating ___) (ladislav rating ___) My Rating: 8.5

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I would put Katerina 6.5 instead of 3 if she had such eyes like in Barbara

Nose isn't important, if a woman has a beautiful all the rest (and something inside that attracts) Ugly shape of the nose goes to the background.
So..Barbra Streisand young - 7.0- 7.5
Carolina Kluft - 3.0 - 3.5

jamesbond · Post by **jamesbond** » September 27th, 2011, 6:20 pm

eurobrat wrote:And who the hell is not attracted to blonde women. That should be a sin...

How true! LOL

ladislav · Post by **ladislav** » October 1st, 2011, 9:47 am

Barbara Streisand looks too Jewish even if blond. Americans do not see her Jewishness because their eyes are not trained. Eastern Slavs, on the other hand, pick up on it immediately. Even after the significant " fall" in the degree of anti-Semitism in E. Europe, the Jewish look, to Slavs, is somewhat attractive in men but not so in women.
Barbara Streisand- 4. Barely so.
Ms. Kluft- she looks Teutonic, harsh, with male-like Germanic features and a scowl that can only be compared to the Alien in the movie by the same name. Sinewy and muscular. Another unpopular look in the E. Slavic eyes.
Most Slavs do not think that either Germanic or Semitic/Ashkenazi women look good. They would even find a Gypsy woman sexier than these two he-females.
Kluft also barely makes 4. More like 3.5
Neither one nor the other would have many guys wanting to date them. They are lucky they are not living in Eastern Slavic lands.

Mr S · Post by **Mr S** » October 1st, 2011, 1:33 pm

Can I give a loud UGH for both? The blonde chick looks like a dude in drag to be honest...Streisand is at least tolerable when younger but still not that hot. Maybe a 5-6 range or so...

Hero · Post by **Hero** » October 1st, 2011, 1:46 pm

I don't like big noses on women or noses that are curved like a bird's beak.

I keep meeting women who look attractive at first, but then I catch their profile and notice their ugly beaky noses and it just ruins their appearance. Plus, I think those noses just get bigger as they age. At least you don't see that in the Philippines.

djfourmoney · Post by **djfourmoney** » October 3rd, 2011, 2:26 pm

Barbra Streisand attractive????? Okay I'm 41 and during Streisand's heyday (mid to late 70's) I don't think many in the media considered her "hot". She was mostly portrayed in movies as the sensible sort of woman you would date/marry. Her nose is pronounced and hurt her attractiveness. There are much better looking women of that era -

Cheryl Tiegs for one

Just as Jane Kennedy was very much the high standard of Black America in those days

Even today, their beauty endures...

I have been to Ukraine (Kiev) and I have spent time on local transportation, in super markets, etc. Sure you saw Babushka and women that aren't that attractive. But I do recall seeing women that would easily get most American men hot and bothered, but don't register a blip in general on native soil.

I call this the widening of the middle... In other words, there is a wider selection of women that most men in America would say "I'm perfectly okay with this". Not the best looking woman, but a woman that's by all other measurement = Attractive (Thin, Average Height, etc)

This why even with estimates of only 20K to 30K women being in the MOB dating pool, matched with only 2-3% of men that actually get on the plane, there plenty of women to choose from.

I've been on quite a few of FSU web sites and you can always find attractive women, young(er) than what you'll be able to date in your home country, attractive and without baggage (children, divorce, etc). Its quite shocking actually. Even if you'll accept children or women that have been divorced, you're pool just opens up just that wider.

I don't know why there's an analyst on beauty in FSU, its a given the women are going to be attractive. I say save your money, get your passport and go. There of plenty of good web sites that you can trust, you don't need to go with a tour, its just a bit harder if you don't and your trusting your instincts more.

have2fly · Post by **have2fly** » October 9th, 2011, 12:24 am

So..Barbra Streisand young - 7.0- 7.5
Carolina Kluft - 3.0 - 3.5

LADISLAV - you hit it right on the spot describing how Slavic people feel about Jewish and Germanic look!

So to me - Barbara Streisand is a 2.
Carolina Kluft is 1, barely so. She is extremely ugly in my opinion. There are girls with similar face that are pretty though, but exactly this one is very ugly for me.

Slavic look is very refined though. Wide positioned eyes, good mouth with full lips, nice hair, blue or green eye color, high cheek bones etc. In general, natural look is a mix of 20% Asian, 40% Swedish, 20% Greek-Middle Eastern and 20% Germanic - ALL combined! Somehow America is supposed to be a melting pot that breeds the most beautiful people because of the wider mix here, but its the OPPOSITE, as we all know.

LarryLaffer · Post by **LarryLaffer** » October 14th, 2011, 6:26 pm

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@ Google

Google wrote: I would put Katerina 6.5 instead of 3 if she had such eyes like in Barbara Nose isn't important, if a woman has a beautiful all the rest (and something inside that attracts) Ugly shape of the nose goes to the background.
So..Barbra Streisand young - 7.0- 7.5
Carolina Kluft - 3.0 - 3.5

Thanks Google! That is good to know that I'm right about Ukrainians disliking Carolina Kluft.

@ jamesbond

jamesbond wrote:
eurobrat wrote: And who the hell is not attracted to blonde women. That should be a sin...
How true! LOL

I know! I don't understand guys who don't like blonde women. How can you not love long golden hair?

@ ladislav

ladislav wrote:Barbara Streisand looks too Jewish even if blond. Americans do not see her Jewishness because their eyes are not trained. Eastern Slavs, on the other hand, pick up on it immediately. Even after the significant " fall" in the degree of anti-Semitism in E. Europe, the Jewish look, to Slavs, is somewhat attractive in men but not so in women.
Barbara Streisand- 4. Barely so.
Ms. Kluft- she looks Teutonic, harsh, with male-like Germanic features and a scowl that can only be compared to the Alien in the movie by the same name. Sinewy and muscular. Another unpopular look in the E. Slavic eyes.
Most Slavs do not think that either Germanic or Semitic/Ashkenazi women look good. They would even find a Gypsy woman sexier than these two he-females.
Kluft also barely makes 4. More like 3.5
Neither one nor the other would have many guys wanting to date them. They are lucky they are not living in Eastern Slavic lands.

Thank you ladislav! That is very good to know. When I go to Eastern Europe I'll be sure to check for those types of appearances as it is nice to know they are in low demand.

@ djfourmoney

djfourmoney wrote: Barbra Streisand attractive????? Okay I'm 41 and during Streisand's heyday (mid to late 70's) I don't think many in the media considered her "hot". She was mostly portrayed in movies as the sensible sort of woman you would date/marry. Her nose is pronounced and hurt her attractiveness. There are much better looking women of that era -

Yes, but my point was that she is still attractive. I didn't mean that she was super hot like Daryl Hannah. But she was certainly a pretty woman when she was young.

djfourmoney wrote: I call this the widening of the middle... In other words, there is a wider selection of women that most men in America would say "I'm perfectly okay with this". Not the best looking woman, but a woman that's by all other measurement = Attractive (Thin, Average Height, etc)

This is probably true.

djfourmoney wrote: I don't know why there's an analyst on beauty in FSU, its a given the women are going to be attractive.

The reason why there is an analysis is because there is a difference not just in how highly women are rated by the Ukrainian men but there is also a difference in the ORDER in which they are rated. To me, it is the ORDER that I'm interested as that is more instructive. Don't you find it quite surprising that Oksana is considered LESS attractive than Katerina or Carolina Kluft? Katerina, the woman who is now in my updated avatar, is MUCH prettier, in my eyes, than Oksana. Yet one of our Ukrainian members, Google, rates Oksana a 4 and Katerina a 3. Both Google and have2fly consider the BEAUTIFUL woman in my avatar to be UGLY. So there isn't just a difference in how harshly the women are rated but a difference in flaws they can tolerate versus flaws they can't tolerate, although I don't see what they could possibly find wrong with Katerina.

The point is, if you can find women that the Ukrainian men DISLIKE the most but that you still find attractive, then you improve your chances.

@ have2fly

have2fly wrote: LADISLAV - you hit it right on the spot describing how Slavic people feel about Jewish and Germanic look!

So to me - Barbara Streisand is a 2.
Carolina Kluft is 1, barely so. She is extremely ugly in my opinion. There are girls with similar face that are pretty though, but exactly this one is very ugly for me.

Slavic look is very refined though. Wide positioned eyes, good mouth with full lips, nice hair, blue or green eye color, high cheek bones etc. In general, natural look is a mix of 20% Asian, 40% Swedish, 20% Greek-Middle Eastern and 20% Germanic - ALL combined! Somehow America is supposed to be a melting pot that breeds the most beautiful people because of the wider mix here, but its the OPPOSITE, as we all know.

Thanks have2fly. That is WONDERFUL to know that Kluft is only a 1 by Ukrainian standards.

How common are women who have the same very light blond hair color that she has in Ukraine? I mean, is it very rare in Ukraine to find women who have natural light blond hair? Because I can usually tolerate a lot of flaws in a woman if she has the same long, straight, naturally light blond hair that Carolina Kluft has. I LOVE NATURAL BLOND HAIR and so long as the woman isn't old or very obese, I'd be pretty happy with almost any woman with Carolina Kluft's hair. I'd be quite happy with a woman who looked like Carolina Kluft.

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@ Everyone

I notice that the Ukrainians don't just rate the girls lower than the Americans would.

They also seem to have a different order.

Below is the list of ratings so far compiled for easy reference.

The largest difference in the ratings so far seem to be for Katerina and Carolina Kluft.

So, American men should target women who look like them when going to Eastern Europe.
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Name of Girl_|_Ukr Google's Rating_|_Ukr_have2fly's Rating_|_Ukr_ladislav's Rating_|__Amer_Man's_Rating

Natalia ______________8.5__________"Very Below Average"________NA____________________10.0

Alexandra ____________5.5______________"Average"_____________NA_____________________9.0

Anna ________________7.5_______________"Average"____________NA_____________________9.5

Katerina______________3.0____________"Plain Ugly"______________NA_____________________9.0 (6 PT GAP)

Irina_________________4.5____________"Plain Ugly"______________NA_____________________6.0

Oksana______________4.0_____________"Plain Ugly"______________NA_____________________6.0

Barbra Streisand______7.0-7.5_____________2.0_________________4.0______________________8.0

Carolina Kluft_________3.0-3.5_____________1.0________________3.5-4.0____________________8.5

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Hero · Post by **Hero** » October 26th, 2011, 8:14 am

ladislav wrote:Ukrainian guys look feminine to American eyes as do French guys. It is all relative. The guys there simply try to look refined and cute to attract girls because that is what the girls there like. They still look masculine enough to the girls there. Girls there love the boyish look of a guy and fancy clothes. To American eyes that looks gay and the rough look with subdued no pattern clothes - denim, black, blue, grey is the accepted way to dress, otherwise you are declared gay. Bangs, long hair, any kind of cuteness is gay in the US.

Well that explains something that's been baffling me. I know a couple of attractive girls (one of them is in fact smoking hot) who are in serious relationships with a couple of incredible pansies. The explanation, of course, is that the girls are Eastern European.

Repatriate · Post by **Repatriate** » October 26th, 2011, 8:48 am

I have noticed an interesting phenomenon. Whenever you have a country that has a high proportion of attractive women the men tend to be more metrosexual and the girls often prefer this look. The boyish metro look that Ukrainian men have is very common in Asia as well.

In the U.S. "attractive" men look roided out with fake tans and beefcake dress style. The attitudes are often aggressive and rude. American men are very confrontational and uptight. Most women in the U.S. seem to like these types of douchebags and Jersey Shore is a "model" of what's popular.

Btw Carolina Kluft is f***ing ugly. She resembles a pre-op trannie. Her teeth are especially weird looking. Definitely 1/10

Streisand isn't all that great either. She's merely average at best. 3/10

jamesbond · Post by **jamesbond** » October 27th, 2011, 3:33 am

Repatriate wrote:In the U.S. "attractive" men look roided out with fake tans and beefcake dress style. The attitudes are often aggressive and rude. American men are very confrontational and uptight. Most women in the U.S. seem to like these types of douchebags and Jersey Shore is a "model" of what's popular.

American women love guys who are jerks and assholes, they DO NOT like nice guys, because nice guys are seen as being boring.

Men in America can sometimes be confrontational and uptight. I think this has to do with the competitive nature of dating here. It's so hard to meet women in the US, that if a guy sees another guy just saying hi to his girlfriend, he may become upset thinking the guy is trying to steal his girlfriend away from him.

Repatriate · Post by **Repatriate** » October 27th, 2011, 3:39 am

jamesbond wrote:
American women love guys who are jerks and assholes, they DO NOT like nice guys, because nice guys are seen as being boring.

Men in America can sometimes be confrontational and uptight. I think this has to do with the competitive nature of dating here. It's so hard to meet women in the US, that if a guy sees another guy just saying hi to his girlfriend, he may become upset thinking the guy is trying to steal his girlfriend away from him.

That's why violence is so common in U.S. nightclubs and public nightlife spots. You have extreme scarcity and unavailability of women and lots of middle/upper middle class men competing for low quality women. The decent quality women are few and far between. So men engage in one upsmanship to vent their hostility.

It's an unhealthy and unproductive environment. I think most of the deeper issues with American male masculinity is tied to this.

It would be an extremely interesting social experiment if you took a typical repressed anglo society and lifted immigrant quotas for single young women (age 18-30) from EE, Latin America, and Asian countries and made it extremely easy for those girls to immigrant for residency. I bet the social dynamic would change dramatically overnight. A lot of the American male angst would disappear.

have2fly - Standards of Beauty in Ukraine

I've been thinking...

Specific Differences between what men in US and Ukraine like

Re: Specific Differences between what men in US and Ukraine