Unapproachable women in America

[polya]

AW are toxic spermbanks. They have no value to me & I have no interest in ever dating them. I suggest using them for speed bumps. Women think that making it hard for men to date them will cause the men to treasure them like a pot of gold. Hardly, it just repulses men and shows up women as greedy gold-diggers.

[udolipixie]

The case of insisting the unapproachables to change don't seem fixable since most people would prefer others to behave in a way that please them. The case of demeaning the unapproachables has some hope of fixing.

The demeaning of women chosing to be unapproachable seems to come from men's frustration, hurt feelings, and confusion.

1. Frustration fix = approach women you want who look approachable or move to an area where more women are approachable.

* It's not about male-shaming, emasculation, calling masculinity/sexual attraction bad/wrong, or telling me to talk or hit on a woman is wrong or bad. It's about telling men to approach those that look like they want to be approached over approaching those that don't want to be approached. Just like if you just want sex without strings go after girls who are open to that versus going for girls who want marriage and relationships. No shaming, emasculation bs in going after those that want the same that you want or are open to it just approach those who look approachable. If you approach a woman not seeing any of those cues/signals and it turns out she's not interested end it. If you approach a bust or otherwise engaged woman thinking “she won't mind� and it turns out she does mind end it. If when ending it she's rude your choice on how to handle it. *


2. Hurt feelings fix = it's not intended to be a personal attack it that they aren't interested in being approached and don't see you as having what they want.

* It's not saying you're not entitled to feel hurt it's just that it's about incompatibility more than your worth as a human being. Just like a girl shouldn't get upset of a lot of men don't approach her a guy shouldn't get upset that a lot of women don't want to be approached. It's just that the men don't find you attractive enough to be worth approaching for the girl & the women don't find you attractive enough to override their desire to not be approached for the guy.*


3. Confusion fix = understand why some women aren't interested in being approached.
In my experience the top five reasons are:
1. Low interest in men / Doesn't trust men

2. American society being highly individualistic & highly cliquish

3. Busy

4. Mood

5. Anti-social
(Some women are anti-social and struggle with it because “real women�/�feminine women� are supposed to be warm, friendly, open, and like socializing.)

*For those that think “who cares if she's busy or her mood she should/could engage a guy or give him a chance� she's not obligated to. If she thinks whatever she's doing is more important that's her choice. If she's not in the mood to talk to a guy that's her choice. If you think your need to talk to her or hit on her is more important then her need to be left alone and go approach her ignoring her face/body language of “leave me alone� attitude that's your choice. The difference being that your choice infringes on her since you're acknowledging she doesn't want to be approached & still do it. While her choice is just opting out of talking to others if she was insisting that you don't talk to her then she's infringing on you.*

[udolipixie]

In my experience the biggest reason on why American women are unapproachable is actually two reasons- low interest in men and/or they don't trust men.

Low interest in men
This is usually not some misandrist view on the male gender. The reasoning behind it really isn't that complex in my expereince.

A. They've had bad experiences making them think my experiences have been sh*t so why bother when it'll just probably happen again or why bother when I'm happy now aka don't fix it if it isn't broken. It's either defeatist attitude or life is good now why f*ck it up attitude.

B. They've had bad experiences making them all/most men are sh*t.

C. They want their ideal or close to and would rather be alone than not have it. Sort of like a guy who refuses to date a girl whose obese and if all the girls are obese he would rather be alone. It's an I'm not interested in men that don't offer what I want or close to it attitude.

D. They believe they are entitled/deserve their ideal or close to it.
Not uncommon since plenty of men also think they deserve an attractive girl or at the very least a girl who is more attractive than himself. Girls often validate their entitlement with their degree (I'm a doctor so I deserve someone with equal education) or having a hole (I'm a girl I can't be with someone who can't provide for me). Men often validate their entitlement with their personality (I'm a goody/nice guy I deserve an attractive girl) or having a stick (I'm a guy I can't be with someone I'm not attracted to).
Though men's stick validation is reasonable- not many want a relationship with someone they aren't attracted to .
Plus women's degree validation is reasonable- not unreasonable to ask the same in your partner. Too often people feel entitled to something they can't offer their partner- a nottie believing they are entitled to a hottie.

E. Most common reason I've seen is why lots of American women are increasingly opting out of marriage and relationships, have no to low interest in having a relationship, or would prefer sharing a guy of their “dreams� than being one-on-one with a guy who doesn't have most or all that they want. For them it's that they think the majority of men hate/view women negativity.

They think that most men just view them as toxic spermbanks only interested in money of no value and he has no interest in getting to know her but just f*ck her. They think that most men think women are incapable of being rational or that only 1 in 10,000 are rational. They think that most men think women are manipulative and just upgraders.

There are men who have this mindset that most women are whores, sluts, less than men, inferior to men, b*tches, evil, gold diggers, and just good for a hole. That there is only a minority of good women, that women who care/respect men are few, and that rational women are few. That men think they are superior to women basedo n the achievements of a minority of men and that men are more competent in worthwhile areas while women are competent in servitude areas.

Men like Tom Lyekis may be admired by men however sh*tloads of women just see him & his masses of followers as respresentation of the majority of how men view women.

Would you have much interest in a member of a group that thinks lowly of the majority of your group? Would you have much interest in a member of a group that thinks they are superior and better in areas that matter than the majority of your group? Most guys I know wouldn't have much interest in women if they thought women saw men as rapists/potential rapists, wallets, inferior to women, only interested in sex, care only about looks, and only 1 in 10,000 are incapable of deep emotions or emotional. In fact most guys I know think feminists have this mindset and they don't care too much for dating a feminist...so..yeah

Not too many people would be interested in dating much less engaging for any amount of time a member of a group that thinks lowly of them unless that person has what s/he wants & s/he trusts him to not have that mindset. Yes sh*tloads of women expect or think they deserve their ideal or close to it aka women like the D group girls. However sh*tloads of women have a low interest in men and think why bother talking, dating, or getting into a relationship with a gender that hates/views the majority of my gender negatively unless this guy is ideal or close to it. It's like C group girls attitude only their interest

When this mindset exists and it seems to be increasing it's not shocking that most women would react to it by opting out or have low interest unless the guy is ideal or close to it.

It's like some marriage minded women being shocked most men aren't interested in marriage when 70%* of divorces are initiated by women. Most men probably wouldn't be up for marriage unless that girl was his ideal or close to it.

Or women being shocked most men aren't interested in dating a woman who calls herself a feminist.

Don't trust men
The don't trust men is usually not some misandrist view on the male gender.

A. They hate men.

B. They've had bad experiences so all/most men are sh*t.

C. They think they are the morally better gender so all/most men are unstrustworthy or less trustworthy.

D. They think most men hate/view the majority of women negatively. Another reaction to believing most men have this mindset besides low interest is distrust of the male gender. Why trust a gender that hates or thinks lowly of the majority of your gender.

E. Second most common reason I've seen is that they are taking society's victim blaming on rape to the extreme.
It's like a lot of men's reaction to marriage due to the divorce rate. Just like a lot of guys are opting out of marriage due to 70% of divorces being intiated by women it's not women they distrust it's that they distrust women to not screw them in marriage. Well a lot of the unapproachable women don't trust men to not rape them especially when a violent act done to their body is treated like & compared to a object that can be stolen, they're told & think it is their fault if it happens. Best precaution to E types is to avoid strangers and become distrustful of strangers.


E Type Logic
* Girls I know /= girls I am friends with. *

Society teaches Don't Get Raped not Don't Rape so most get the message that it's their duty to not get raped and "she's at fault for this" "she deserves it" or "what did she expect". Most don't get the message to take precaution, rape is wrong & inexcusable, and if for some reason those precautions fail or aren't taken rape is still wrong & inexcusable. For those eho think Don't Rape isn't needed most male rapists aren't mentally ill strange depraved entity most are grandfathers, fathers, uncles, cousins, brothers, sons, and friends. * Case of taking society victim blaming to the extreme are some of girls I know thinking all/most men are rapists or that limiting their contact with men limits their chances of getting raped. They've made the correlation that rapes aren't done by single entities resembling males but men themselves so every male is a possible rapist to them so why take the chance on a strange male rapist. Especially when you're told it's your fault if you get raped. As one can infer they are not open to being approached by men for anything but help/directions and not interested in meeting men to date unless it's from family or female friends.*

Society compares rape to theft suggesting that sex with a woman is something trivial or an object that can be stolen rather than a violent act done to her body. A better comparison is murder both are volent acts done to a person's body without their consent. With the theft analogy comes the idea that the victim is at fault for having the crime done to them because of what they did (drinking, drugging, loose or tight clothing) & what they didn't do. It's to the point where a lot of women blame themselves for getting raped. There was a study stating that 75% of women believe a woman is at fault for getting raped if she gets into bed with a man ...was she suppose to check his wallet and see if the rapist id card in his wallet said Yes or No? What about it's his fault for chosing to continue after she said no? All that study did was encourage those girls I know to believe that male sexuality is bad. That a woman can't be in a sexual situation or one that may suggest sex with a guy and expect him to have "control" after all it was the female's fault for getting him to that point he can't really be expected to quit when she says no. Or in the case of the study question you can't be with a guy in anything remotely sexual like sleeping in a bed together or laying on a bed to watch tv or whatever otherwise he'll rape you....apparently male sexuality is expected to rape so women have to check against it. * Case of taking society victim blaming to the extreme are some of girls I know completely ignore men or walk away if one approaches. I guess to them they check for No on the rapist id card by having him approved by those they know. As one can infer they are not open to meeting men unless it's from family or female friends. *

Society gives the idea that rape happens because you let it happen.
The analogy of locking a care prevents car theft just like not dressing slutty prevents rapeis faulty to me. Locking your care prevents car thefts unless the theft has means to get past the lock. Rape doesn't usually have an unless. To my knowledge there's no if you don't wear this you won't get raped unless... ..?.... Your opinion of non slutty may differ from what the rapist thinks is slutty. Actually where is the study that slutty dressed girls get raped more than non slutty girls. Some male rapists prefer non slutty dressed girls. Some male rapists don't care about clothes but hair color, race, or age. Some rapists don't care and just look for opportunity. Guess this slutty dress/car theft analogy doesn't factor in most male rapists are friends, colleagues, acquaintances, exes, or dates. The girls I know do and that just encourages their belief that male sexuality is bad as apparently most men are just rapists in waiting and wearing this = men you know will suddenly rape you. * Case of taking society victim blaming to the extreme are some girls I know refuse to have male friends as to them no male friends = lessening chance of rape. The girls I know who do have male friends while distrusting men will not be alone with them, drink with them, are always on guard, are never physically close, never touch them, never let him touch her, never have him in her house, or let the man see her in anything but a sweater & jeans...even in hot hot hot...hot weather. I often wonder what these guys will think/say if they found out the reason that their female friend didn't take him up on his offer to drive her home is because she thinks he may now or later take it as an opportunity to rape her. As one can infer they are not open to meeting men unless it's from family or female friends. *

How would you react if d*ck chopping was just seen as mugging or theft rather than sexual violence/genital multiation? How would you react if you were told that you have to prevent getting d*ck chopped rather than take precaution and if those precautions fail or you don't take them whoever chopped off your d*ck is wrong and it's inexcusable? How would you react if you blamed yourself for what another person did to you? Most would think no matter what a guy did or didn't do most will say he doesn't deserve or should expect to get his d*ck chopped off yet say that if a girl deserves slutty she was at fault, deserved to get raped, or should expect it to happen. Not too many say if a guy cheats he's at fault for getting d*ck chopped, that guys should prevent getting their d*ck chopped off and if it happens then he did something to play a part in it happening or deserved it. Though many apparently believe if you get into bed with a man, dress this way, drink this much, flirt this way, or flirt this much then you're at fault for getting raped.

[udolipixie]

*
This is not blaming men for being called creepy.

Plenty of girls misuse the word creepy. It's come to the point that when a girl calls a guy creepy most think it was because he was unattractive.

Plenty of guys dismiss the word creepy. If he doesn't think he was creepy then the fact she felt uncomfortable, unsafe, or unsettled doesn't matter. American society has become quite self-centered.

There are general things that the majority of men/women think are creepy however overall creepy is often subjective. Just because you don't think you did or say something creepy doesn't mean she thought the same. Her thinking you're creepy doesn't mean you are creepy jsut that you are creepy to her. Like some actions aren't rude but in another culture it may be seen as. Unlike cultures most people don't come with lists that define what they think is creepy. Why not just let her think what she thinks after all you weren't the one who experienced it. I wouldn't tell a short guys are little boys and aren't real men then tell him not to be offended because I don't consider it offensive. Why dictate how she should feel unless she's using her feelings to insult & degrade you not just stating how she felt uncomforatable, unsafe, or unsettled by what you did/said. Though if you find someone being uncomfortable, unsettled, or unsafe by something you did/said and calling you creepy to de insulting & degrading you then there's an issue applying that why not let be thingy.
*


I'm giving some insight on why some guys may be called creepy by unapproachable women who don't misuse the word.
* Guys I know /= guys I am friends with. *

Lots of guys I know are shocked to be called a creeped by unapproachable women.

Some guys I know are shocked that these women who they can tell didn't want to be approached but thought by approaching her he would be showing balls are calling them creeps.

1. Her face/body language showed she was not interested in being approached. He ignored that cue/signal because it wasn't telling him what he wanted and he was advised to not be scared of offending her, and he believes it takes

Why he saw it as balls & she saw it as creepy:
Not getting cues/signals is a creepy indicator since it's intrepreted as not caring about what's she's signaling. Of course the reason could be he's socially awkward not intentionally ignoring cues/signals however most go with creepy. Not that far off since the guy thought it was a good thing and showing balls to ignore her face/body language of "leave me alone" and approach her.

* The advice of not being scared of offending her: That's a good thing. It's a bad thing when it comes to intentionally ignoring what someone wants because it doesn't suit your tastes. That's not being scared of offending her that's just being self-centered, thinking your needs are more important, and disrespecting her needs. There's a difference to me of not being scared of offending a woman (not being scared to approach a girl) and being self centered (approaching a girl despite you seeing she doesn't want to be approached). It's like not being scared of my likes (telling a bf that I like when he does this) and being self-centered (thinking he should do this because I like it). *

2. Some women aren't interested in meeting men for whatever reason..I gave the top 5 reasons in my expereince. In this case the guy didn't get the facebody language and still chose to approach rather he doesn't know she doesn't want to be approached or he saw she was busy/engaged and thought "hey she wouldn't mind" yet she tells/shows him she's not interested he persists.

Ex: guy sees girl reading a book, he asks what's the name/what it's about/is it good, she responds and goes back to reading.
Most would get that the person wants to read not talk. He asks another question she responds and goes back to reading. This he asks & she responds then reads continues until she stops responding, he mindcalls a b*tch and gets up, or she gets up.

Why he sees it as not knowing at first she wasn't interested or "hey she might not mind" & she sees it as creepy:
With the case of not knowing she was interested at first: Still continuing his pursuit after she has shown indifference or disinterest is a creepy indicator as it shows that what she's interested in aka being left alone now doesn't matter just his interests.

With the case of hey she might not mind: It's like the intentionally ignoring cues/signals seen as not caring about her needs. Only him continuing his pursuit despite her showing/telling him that she's not interested reinforces that what she cares doesn't matter and is insignificant and only his needs matter.

3. A woman is approached and she's curt and cuts it off. He reacts negatively calling her a b*tch and that she'll end up an old cat lady if she doesn't change and give guys a chance. Yeah...I've seen guys shocked at being called creepy after insulting a girl thinking they thought the insult was well-deserved for her being curt or that they were giving her ego some much needed deflation or warning her what could happen if she's so "closed off".

Why he sees it as being curt/dismissive warranting insults or warnings & she sees it as being creepy:
Reacting insultingly because someone politely doesn't giving you want you want is a creepy indicator since it's intrepreted as not being able to handle not getting what you want without being insulting no matter how nice the refusal is. The idea that a person will react that way rather than respect you not giving what they want makes people uncomfortable and feel unsafe.
Thinking that someone has to change a non illegal/hateful/violent/abusive behavior because it doesn't give you want you want is a creepy indicator since it's intrepreted as controlling. It's a type of control that people shouldn't have ceratin behaviors because they don't suit your needs and that those with this behavior are wrong and deserve or will get the worst. These behaviors aren't illegal, hateful, violent, or abusive so the reasoning on why it has to change is merely to suit their needs. [/i]

[NorthAmericanguy]

A friend of mine was teaching English in Moldova (former USSR country that is ethnically Romanian) and he was just starting conversations with women on the street, asking them in English if they how to get to ... (the place was unimportant, it was just a line.) Well what do you know, he ended up marrying a woman he picked up (he was 52, she was 26), and they are a happy, growing family. He's from NYC, and I asked him if he could have done this there, and he said he'd get locked up in Riker's Island (jail) if he'd have tried that.

Edit:


The Republic of Moldovia? That place is very poor, so poor its a major hub for human sex tracking due to the fact that 80% of the population lives below the poverty level. Girls from Moldovia are commonly smuggled into Turkey.

[NorthAmericanguy]

Ever wonder why women in America act the way they do. Stuck-up entitlement queens with a diva attitude. Well I like many use to think it was because of the feminist culture, but the main culprit is the media. Remember Americans watch more television than any other nation and women are at the forefront of it. Television has become so feminized that their are female commentators on ESPN. Shows like Sex and the City and movies like The Devil Wears Prada teaches women that they deserve the best of everything 24/7.

We live in a closed cliquish society, where the structure is geared towards people you know and strangers are not included in the social circle. Couple that with women's high expectation and you get a society that has the most dysfunctional courtship system in the world. There are more single men in the U.S. than any other country. As time progress America is only going to get more superficial. 80% of the shows on TV are reality shows and most focus on superficiality. From The Housewives series to the Jersey Shore, the women exhibit narcissistic attitudes which they learned from the countless hours of TV they've watched.

I've decided to move out of this country because of this reason. I woke up to this reality once I visited the site and put 2 and 2 together and realized you can't have a healthy relationship in a unhealthy society. More Americans are watching more TV than ever and women are at the forefront of it. Women are obsessed with anything dealing with celebrities and less concerned about world events. It's only going to get worst before it gets better. The reason why foreign women, especially from Europe, are far easier to get along with is because they don't watch a quarter of as much TV as U.S. women. This is why I'll be moving there.

+1

[NorthAmericanguy]

And yes there are exceptions for sure. But rare. There are even some American couples who live in particular cities abroad for the better quality of life and less rigid/insane US mentality of money-work-materialism-overly complex system. But rare.

But most of them are terribly lost people with nothing to come back to, or they have something to come back to but they walked on it. Many of them are outsiders in their own society and that's why they are out there in the first place. And ALL of them will be a curiosity to all, reviled by some, and practically worshiped by others, unless you settle in a really muti-cultural/multinational crowd where there are plenty of Westerners mixed with the people of the host country (I am not even aware of a city that meets this description outside of the US). It is a very unnatural dynamic. If you ask most expats pointed questions about what they are doing out there, more than half of them seem incapable of giving a straight answer and some of them look like you just punched them in the gut. A lot of them are on guard and seem secretive. That's because they are wanderers, lost souls, wounded people, carrying inner conflict about leaving their family, their friends, their society, or running from their traumatic past, or they are just a nut job out there banging every hot chick they can get with.

One of the most shocking things I found is what a bullshit job teaching ESL is. In many of the places popular for ESL teachers, you don't even need any kind of legitimate credentials and the work standard is a joke, and finally, it is doing almost nothing for the society at large. Again, there are exceptions to this and some of the people really make an effort to make a legitimate go at being a professorial about it, but this is very very rare and again, most of them wind up back in the US in the long run and never really can be integrated at all into the host society.

Now I will say that the social vibe is wonderful, the ease of establishing community is incomparable to the USA, the women are amazingly easy to approach or connect with etc... making new friends is easy, and I could see myself finding a woman to marry a LOT easier than the states. Easy to find a teaching job also, even if it is a bullshit job. but that doesn't change anything else I just said.

Expating is a very serious endeavor and a major sacrifice, even if you deal with the culture shock well, and it should be done with a purpose, a plan, and something to fall back on in the home country, unless you are expating as a refugee for survival.

I met many American expats, some had been abroad for years, and not a single of them was married. Why? Go back and reread what I've said in the other post. Because what I have said is all true - that's the reasons why they aren't married. Come to think of it, I know more married American men here in the US.

This is all smoke and mirrors and I know now that probably about half the people posting in this board have never even been abroad, much less lived there. This whole forum presents this asburd fantasy that people can go abroad and find a fantasy life and your social woes and relationship woes will be resolved. That is a total fallacy and it is not a good reason to expat. The ones who hold that idea are either outright crazy or lost (like some of the ones I met abroad) or have just never been abroad to get the real picture.


Dont forget insane air pollution, undrinkable tap water, and things like sex trafficking and slavery and incredibly high rates of tobacco smokers, are common place once you cross the ocean, unless you are in a place like Japan or S Korea. I found all that out first hand also.

I find it odd that no one addresses the full picture here - it is all just "go abroad, its like disney land out there!!!!!!"

I mean Ill be honest, I was so shocked to see this website by the time I had been abroad for a few months and experienced this stuff first hand. Winston has nothing but beautiful women and fantasy ideas posted on here.

Excellent post and I agree on all counts; especially what you said in bold. As for myself, this is why I always said I'm not moving any place just to meet women, because I know many other factors are involed, and in addition to that, its why I'm reading as many books as I can on the places that I'm considering to travel to so I can get the real unadulterated scoop.

[djfourmoney]

A friend of mine was teaching English in Moldova (former USSR country that is ethnically Romanian) and he was just starting conversations with women on the street, asking them in English if they how to get to ... (the place was unimportant, it was just a line.) Well what do you know, he ended up marrying a woman he picked up (he was 52, she was 26), and they are a happy, growing family. He's from NYC, and I asked him if he could have done this there, and he said he'd get locked up in Riker's Island (jail) if he'd have tried that.

Moldovia Ukraine? That place is very poor, so poor its a major hub for human sex tracking. Girls from Moldovia are commonly smuggled into Turkey.

I am not sure what you mean by your post. I will assume you believe Moldavian women are of lower quality because of their economic situation, utter nonsense.

As for human trafficking, people just replace "Human" with "Sex" and it raises all sorts of eyebrows. Most poor countries have high levels of prostitution and human trafficking, is this shocking or something?

Are you saying this increased his odds of finding a woman, especially a woman that young at his age? I will say economics plays a HUGE roll in decision making for women, this if often a decision Western Women don't have to make any longer. However it was very common at the founding of this nation for fathers to encourage their daughter marry a man that had land of his own (source of wealth), with at least mild age gaps. She was often a teenager and he was often in his mid to late 20's, if not his mid 30's.

What happen in the 200 years or so since is that increasing opportunities for woman and changing moral climate in America means women are discouraged from marrying young, in fact without parental consent, its illegal to marry a woman under 18 (16 in Southern States), when it was commonplace in another era.

I am going to piggyback this reply and answer some of the above comments previous to this post.

While some followers of Tom Leykis are not what I would call highly logical people but more self-absorbed people, I would say this is not the majority of men in this country and how they feel.

Is there low interest in men? From women in the prime age of child birth, I would say yes. Again this depends on economics...

If you get knocked up as a teenager and are no longer dating the child's father, that will make a majority of your decision making as a woman based economics and also finding an acceptable man not only for yourself but one that will accept your child.

Harder than it sounds and even for really attractive women.

For a young woman that is attractive and does everything society expect of her (education, career), naturally her desires and expectations will be HIGH, this shouldn't shock anybody.

I'll keep saying it and this is not any BS, the Top 80% of the woman available are chasing the 20% of the Top Men. Since more women are graduating from college than men are, this makes sense. Because even women with not more than a high school education, but have model/movie star looks will not be looking to date a guy that works at Target, even if he is attractive. Why? Because as I have said before Men just don't give a f*ck what women do for a living. As long as she has an intelligent thought in her head, she's considered marriage material to the Top 20% of men. Look how many men are dating the attractive girl behind the counter at Starbucks.... Look at the women that are recruited to be on Millionaire Match Maker, some of these women are working service sector jobs, even with college degrees and majority of men, even with net worth higher than Million dollars simply don't care.

I don't really care what's created this system. What I am interested in is solutions to a problem. The problem of men struggling to find a nice woman to marry. I don't agree with the notion that many zero men are desiring hotties. I believe most men are realistic and if they believe themselves to be in the middle as most people are, most men believe (correctly) that looks are of less importance to a woman than they are to a man. Does that mean woman don't desire an attractive man? No, it means they will often marry the nice guy that could be "cute" with some work (change of hair style, clothes), than the guy with chiseled features and spends more time in the mirror than she does.

But the overriding point here is that in the last 30-40 years the roll of Man in a relationship has not changed but the roll of a Woman has. Women more often than not even if they make an excellent income want a man that's even more successful than they are. I find that mind-boggling...

Do some men have trouble with a woman that makes more than them? Some might, I don't believe a majority do.

What the above series of post also fail to recognize is that Women are known to marry what is called "Starter" Husbands. This is because Divorce no longer carries a stigma in our society, that's a product of feminism. So its okay to use stupid excuses, like "My family really liked my boyfriend and pressured me into marrying him." Then say "But I was unhappy and my husband was miserable" or in most cases had NO IDEA anything was wrong. If a wife is the last to know when a Man cheat, the Man is the last to know if his relationship has ended.

In the end, we have w broken society. There is basically nothing Men can do to improve things. For the last 30 years they have done what American Women have asked which is to be more involved in child bearing, to be more sensitive, etc, etc. Yet still complain that Men aren't carrying the load at home. But you're still required to work full time, even at a job you hate, don't get much time off and often suffer from stress/burnout. I would also say women that choose not to marry or not bear children shouldn't be demonized, that's just a product of the improved economic opportunities of our economy.

Since there we're in agreement that most of today's women especially in prime child-bearing age are not interested in men long term at all, the ANSWER is for American men to find women that are interested not only in getting married, but also having children during their prime child bearing years. You just won't find a majority of those women in the United States and all sorts of statistics back that up.

[NorthAmericanguy]

I am not sure what you mean by your post. I will assume you believe Moldavian women are of lower quality because of their economic situation, utter nonsense..

No. I did not mean that they were of lower quality. I was just pointing out that the reason why that teacher probably had such good success is because most of the women in that area are desperate to find jobs and earn a living.

[djfourmoney]

I am not sure what you mean by your post. I will assume you believe Moldavian women are of lower quality because of their economic situation, utter nonsense..

No. I did not mean that they were of lower quality. I was just pointing out that the reason why that teacher probably had such good success is because most of the women in that area are desperate to find jobs and earn a living.

Western Men going into poor countries to teach English and laying pipe to local women, even marrying some of them? Parish the thought.... Happens quite a bit.

[NorthAmericanguy]

I am not sure what you mean by your post. I will assume you believe Moldavian women are of lower quality because of their economic situation, utter nonsense..

No. I did not mean that they were of lower quality. I was just pointing out that the reason why that teacher probably had such good success is because most of the women in that area are desperate to find jobs and earn a living.

Western Men going into poor countries to teach English and laying pipe to local women, even marrying some of them? Parish the thought.... Happens quite a bit.

lol...

[ExpeditionSailor]

...users here should be interested in dating westerners, wish they could, are failing, and are therefore settling for foreign women.

No, you should deffinately not settle. But going on a few dates in the west can give you a better perspective on relationships. I'm suggesting a recipe for self-discovery.

Think of it this way, if you can impress a western woman or at least get one to date you more than once, you will likely be able to impress women overseas. If you can't get anywhere with western women, you can't logically conclude that the problem is with them. It may be in the mirror looking at you.

In there own words they say they see, "...the grossest, ugliest men with beautiful young women on their arms..." and yet they can't get a date to save their lives. Perhaps there's something to this idea that western women have become undesirable.

I've read similar articles. Some of these women even lose thier husbands and boyfriends to these foreign beauties.

If these men are so "ugly and gross" why do the western women care so much about them? It's not like they would be open to dating them unless they lower their standards.

I don't fully understand how western women are getting worked up over men that they never wanted in the first place.

I also have ideas on how a western woman can be more desirable. But I don't think there are many of them here and I don't think that they would be open to hearing about it.

The reason why Western (especially North American) women get upset about ugly men succeeding with foreign women is simply this. Ugly men succeeding with foreign women means
a loss of perceived power and social status for Western women. That is, they fear the very real possibility that word of ugly men succeeding will reach men who are already good-looking, and thus
the good-looking men will get the idea that foreign women are better too, and start voting with their feet.

Western women are a lot like monopolistic capitalists who want to be the only game in town, and have customers who have no choice but to pay the going rate demanded by whoever holds the monopoly.

A lot of Western women have a sadistic streak in them, and they like it when people they see as 'undesirable' are suffering and not succeeding. It warms the cockles of their putrid
little hearts. Plus, it makes them feel like they are real winners.

As an ugly man, I really detest living in a society where I am seen as lower than whale shit and not worth bothering with because of something I have no control over.

[DarkMinxMish]

This is coming from a woman's point of view, but yeah we can be wicked unapproachable at times.
I remember some guys whom seem interested, but the way they come off is unappealing. They either shout a hey baby or make some derogatory remark and expect me to stop and chat with them. (Sometimes I do, but I'm a polite person...) It's about having our guards up and since we're in public you have to be vigilant to a degree. Other times you can see a guy who smiles and looks sweet, then we'll smile back. (after checking he isn't a creep) I remember this asian guy he and his friend held open a door for me and just gave me this stare. lol I hadn't noticed I stopped and stared back, but then his girlfriend came up with her friend.
Both chicks gave me varying degrees of evil you should die looks.
I see guys stare at me and they look like they want to say something, but if you give them encouraging looks they'll look away.
That boggles me so I just ignore them to gauge their reactions.

I find black men yes even shy ones are a little bit more willing to chat if their interested, but white/ non-white men are more likely to look.
Sometimes they'll do something similar to eye smexing or smiling brilliantly. Nothing beyond that though.
I'm not the type to approach guys, because I'm shy and my loner tendencies keep me to myself.
Something happens after high school with guys their braver in school, but after they just...I don't know. ~shrugs~
I'm aware I can be unapproachable and give a wicked glare, but if someone is interested try to chat.
As for the men having to be attractive well yes that's nice. Just like a man wants a fairly attractive woman.
Though if a guy has nice eyes, smile, hair, I might like his posture, maybe his physique, and/or I like to notice voices.
A voice can be a great turn on. It can be anything that attracts a women you just have to try and see what works.

Agree or not agree.

[shiryu400]

This is coming from a woman's point of view, but yeah we can be wicked unapproachable at times.
I remember some guys whom seem interested, but the way they come off is unappealing. They either shout a hey baby or make some derogatory remark and expect me to stop and chat with them. (Sometimes I do, but I'm a polite person...) It's about having our guards up and since we're in public you have to be vigilant to a degree. Other times you can see a guy who smiles and looks sweet, then we'll smile back. (after checking he isn't a creep) I remember this asian guy he and his friend held open a door for me and just gave me this stare. lol I hadn't noticed I stopped and stared back, but then his girlfriend came up with her friend.
Both chicks gave me varying degrees of evil you should die looks.
I see guys stare at me and they look like they want to say something, but if you give them encouraging looks they'll look away.
That boggles me so I just ignore them to gauge their reactions.

I find black men yes even shy ones are a little bit more willing to chat if their interested, but white/ non-white men are more likely to look.
Sometimes they'll do something similar to eye smexing or smiling brilliantly. Nothing beyond that though.
I'm not the type to approach guys, because I'm shy and my loner tendencies keep me to myself.
Something happens after high school with guys their braver in school, but after they just...I don't know. ~shrugs~
I'm aware I can be unapproachable and give a wicked glare, but if someone is interested try to chat.
As for the men having to be attractive well yes that's nice. Just like a man wants a fairly attractive woman.
Though if a guy has nice eyes, smile, hair, I might like his posture, maybe his physique, and/or I like to notice voices.
A voice can be a great turn on. It can be anything that attracts a women you just have to try and see what works.

Agree or not agree.

Question, did you say thank you after having the door held open for you? If not maybe that's what the looks are for.

I ask this bc I personally hate when women feel entitled to have the door held open for them even by strangers and yet they won't say thank you. This happens to me around school all the time.

Also if men don't wanna talk I believe it has to do with unapproachabilty. Regular nice guys, if you cared to ask them, can tell you THOUSANDS of stories where they're snubbed and ignored by women. It gets to the point where you have to be careful about who you approach. Most women CANNOT relate because they have a choice as to whether they will approach or not. Either way there's always a guy or more after them. You even said that you're the shy type. The trouble is women are penalized for being shy but men are.

I feel that American women have this notion that women are somehow are more advanced or more civilized than men because they don't think with their "little heads" since they don't have them. But women like sex just as much as men and they like attention from the opposite sex just as much. The reason why women don't have to think about it is because that attention is ALWAYS there!

[DarkMinxMish]

Question, did you say thank you after having the door held open for you? If not maybe that's what the looks are for.

I ask this bc I personally hate when women feel entitled to have the door held open for them even by strangers and yet they won't say thank you. This happens to me around school all the time.

Also if men don't wanna talk I believe it has to do with unapproachabilty. Regular nice guys, if you cared to ask them, can tell you THOUSANDS of stories where they're snubbed and ignored by women. It gets to the point where you have to be careful about who you approach. Most women CANNOT relate because they have a choice as to whether they will approach or not. Either way there's always a guy or more after them. You even said that you're the shy type. The trouble is women are penalized for being shy but men are.

I feel that American women have this notion that women are somehow are more advanced or more civilized than men because they don't think with their "little heads" since they don't have them. But women like sex just as much as men and they like attention from the opposite sex just as much. The reason why women don't have to think about it is because that attention is ALWAYS there![/quote]


Hi Shiryu and nice anime pic! Of course I said thank you I'm not the type of person to just expect that. I mean it's nice when people open doors, let you sit down, or step in front. I do that for other people when in public especially the elderly and children, but I always have decency enough to thank them. Geez...not all women have their heads stuck up their asses. I'm sorry that some of you have had really bad experiences, but becoming bitter about it doesn't help. My luck at dating is probably worst than most of you. I mean I have never dated before PERIOD.

Flirted sure, crushes, chatted and danced with a few, but never have I dated. So in retrospect since my sisters have had actual relationships and dated, I should be bitter, but I'm not. I know the sort of person I am and I'm not good with romantic relationships. I get embarrassed, shy, and awkward too easily what sort of signal do you think that send out to guys??? That makes me the one who always get asked are you interested in boys? Do you want to become a cat lady and etc....My family and friends spare nothing. -__-;

So I say whatever the issue is mistrust of the sexes, disenchantment on love and life, or whatever just get over it and suck it up. My problem is I'm stuck being attracted to men I know are hard to get. Their not asses or anything, it's just that they require a female who's braver then me. Someone who will step up and chat with them and not clam up with emotional defenses (subconsciously). I tried once and wanted to leave, but my friends wouldn't let me...it still sucked and I have a scarring memory for life.

But back to your points a few women do feel they are the fairer sex and thus superior, because they feel they aren't ruled by the "little head". lol
Though most of us just have a different view of things. I mean this theme is seen in tv shows all the time the wife is always smarter and better then the husband. They try to point out in these little parodies of life why she married the shlub. Realistically we know that this is bullshit, so women who think like that usually think their better against anyone regardless of sex. Plus throughout history women american or not have had an exalted status/image as being more moral, civil, or virginal. That is until man comes and along and she falls from grace. That's probably an age old concept that's morphed into various other forms in today's age.

As for not being penalized um...in a way we are just not as directly and harshly as men. Men in our culture are suppose to be these independent, emotionally secure/ closed, macho guys, who are cool and clean with a chill smile on their face. Then their's the 90s sensitive man who became the best friend type/ideal of every girl who was there to talk with and emotionally helpful, but forever overlooked in the "friend" zone.
Now these are stereotypes and caricatures we know most guys need to cry and have feelings, are strong, but carrying too much without any relief and can hurt. Men are just a versatile and complex as women are. All people like sex, but we have different needs.
Women may not need it as much well we thrive more on emotions and sensuality, then just sex. I'm sure it's fulfilling once it occurs, but it usually isn't enough. Anyway that's all I have to add and some of it was personal, but I tried to be honest. ~shrugs~