Thoughts on Moderation in HappierAbroad

Falcon · Post by **Falcon** » November 11th, 2011, 2:37 am

(CLARIFICATION: I am not an anti-HA'er, neither are these calls for censorship. They're simply little suggestions on improving discussion here.
I had also created these threads strongly supporting HappierAbroad's basic tenets.

MEXICO: Success Story from an Asian-American College Student
viewtopic.php?t=11808

My Mexican girlfriend vs. American college girls
viewtopic.php?t=11828

RESEARCH: Mexican men prefer Mexico women over U.S. women
viewtopic.php?t=11842 )

Thoughts on Moderation in HappierAbroad

Overall, I am impressed by this site and truly do believe many things mentioned here can and should be investigated from a sound academic perspective. That's why Steve Nesse's research page is so tremendously important, since it gives HappierAbroad legitimate credibility. http://www.happierabroad.com/Research.htm

But here are my thoughts on some things that can be improved at HappierAbroad if we are to sound more intelligent and coherent. This is intended to be friendly constructive criticism aimed at making all of us better, and making the most out of our lives. Many of us are highly educated, articulate, intelligent, and very thoughtful individuals. But as a whole, I'm sure we can do better.

Every movement has its fundamentalists and extremists, including ours. How to be a moderate HA'er:

(1) AVOID BLACK-AND-WHITE DICHOTOMIES: "ONLY AMERICA IS BAD"
- I know, many of us have been traumatized by the American dating scene and find it hard to see the good sides of America. But we need to use sound observational skills, rather than let those years of built-up anger and frustration completely take over our critical thinking. It's OK to feel like wounded pigs for a bit and rant non-stop about our troubles. But we need to move on from that quickly and start thinking like insightful sociologists and marriage counselors.
- The black-and-white dichotomies often mentioned here is way too simplistic. We need to think in terms of trends and transitions. In other words, think in shades of gray. In my posts, I try to emphasize that what I'm saying does not apply to all individuals of a certain group. The "American hell" vs. "Russian/Filipino paradise" model is not a sound one.
- Even worse is when we flip-flop between "100% good" and "100% bad." For example, the "Filipinas are the best" threads vs. "Filipinas are incredibly immature" threads. We need to be realistic and see them as they are.
- Here's a good description:

"The Philippines is a great place to find genuine romance which sharply contrasts with that of dating and social scenes in many First World countries. However, it can also be overcrowded, unsanitary, and corrupt at times. Their cheerful and friendly attitudes can be seen as adaptations of trying to make the most out of an environment that can oftentimes be harsh and difficult. Yet the adventurous challenges of finding love in this friendly yet tough country can be highly rewarding."

(2) ABOUT THE UNITED STATES
- The United States is still one of the best places to live in the world. The education, freedom, social services, and ethnic diversity are still quite amazing, even though we've gone downhill quite a bit. That's why so many people moved here in the first place. True, all this comes at the cost of social estrangement. But everything has its upsides and downsides (and people don't agree on what the upsides and downsides are).
- According to Alexa, about 25% of all our site traffic is from South Asian countries such as Pakistan and India. South Asians males are very sexually frustrated as well due to the social dynamics there. Don't forget China, where the gender imbalance is incredibly bad. Many Western Europeans and Australians also just have it as bad as the Americans.
- Let me emphasize again: Make sure to mention the downsides of foreign countries! Paint a balanced picture. The "going abroad" solution is challenging, but rewarding; prepare accordingly, not according to unrealistic expectations.

(3) AVOID OVER-FOCUSING ON WOMEN'S PHYSICAL APPEARANCES
- First of all, we should be focusing on women's personalities and inner traits, and other occasionally mention the looks. Looks come and go. The "hot girl" threads are disappointing, because a truly good woman is not the same as a "hot" one. They also make us look like dumb sex maniacs rather, rather insightful folks looking for the meaningful relationships that are so difficult to find in America.
- American women aren't that bad looking. Sure, the middle-age divorced American women can be out of shape, but many American women are still quite physically attractive. As a university student, I see plenty of very attractive American girls on campus. From my personal travels, I haven't seen gigantic differences in overall physical attractiveness (don't get me wrong, I'm not blind.). Each individual has unique looks that cannot be solely circumscribed or stereotyped according to a particular country.
- National origin does not completely determine a person's attractive. It's purely on an individual basis (at most, it runs in families). Claims like "Guatemalan women are ugly" and "Filipinas are all angels" do not make any sense at all.
- I don't believe this should be a sex tourism forum. For that, there are plenty of other forums that deal with it.

(4) BE REALISTIC
- "The checklist trap." Unrealistic expectations are dangerous. Especially when people have conceptions of the "perfect foreign wife" who need to fit into their checklist of preconceived notions about them. Once the two get together, they realize that people are far more than just that checklist and end up in big trouble. Instead, accept each other as who he/she is, and blend your two selves into each other.
- Someone who is "not your type" may end up being your life partner.
- Be considerate and family-oriented if you want a great foreign wife. Many foreign women might not be for you if you only like short-term relationships and hate having to take care of a family.
- Realize each relationship will have its up's and down's. It's not about avoiding troubles, since you'll always have them. It's about how to resolve the ones that life throws at you, as a mature and understanding couple.

(5) PLEASE, NO TROLLS AND NARCISSISTS
- Criticize constructively, and don't use ad hominem attacks
- Definitely post success stories as inspirations and examples, but not as ego feeders. Posting endless photos of a "hot" new Asian girlfriend won't help anyone.

Thank you everyone.

Post by **Winston** » November 11th, 2011, 4:17 am

Thanks, but I think there is a pretty good balance here. There are many posts that list pros and cons of each culture. And posts that reflect different experiences too.

The most important thing is to let people speak freely without censorship, as much as reasonably possible.

Some people care more about appearances than others. It is male nature to be focused on looks. We shouldn't lie about that and pretend we don't go for looks. Honesty and free speech are the most important things, I think.

Don't you agree?

Repatriate · Post by **Repatriate** » November 11th, 2011, 4:21 am

One thing i've found about over moderated sites is that it tends to channel boring group think over time. If you eliminate out of bounds discussion, controversial, or non popular opinions then you get a vanilla travelogue site full of safe P.C. talk. and anal retentive mods who only want you to believe what they want. I can name quite a few hypocritical sites that claim to be about honest dialogue but do just this..*cough* straightdope *cough* and many others like it.

If someone is a racist, a sleazebag, religious fundie, or a nutcase their views should be tolerated at least. Sometimes it's quite interesting to see how these people live abroad and what their whole purpose is. People are often too afraid about offending others to speak their mind.

It's more realistic to hear a variety of views extreme or not then make up your own mind as to what a country is like. Of course a person can never truly know unless they go there themselves but that's the purpose...to get enough straight forward anecdotal accounts and facts together to make a decision.

As far as the focus on attractiveness and cultural attributes, personally i've been to many countries and I do think there's a clear difference on that scale. America, Australia, and the U.K. lead the way in rates of obesity in the world. This is readily apparent when you see American women and then compare them with countries in Asia. There's nothing objectively wrong in pointing out what types you are attracted to.

Btw, the people saying that America is bad are actually in the vocal minority. If you haven't already you should read Ladislav's approach to various countries and how you balance a happier abroad lifestyle with utilizing many countries to your benefit.

Post by **Winston** » November 11th, 2011, 6:23 am

I agree. Different views should be tolerated, as long you don't attack others here or become hostile to others. People should be honest, so we can get their true views.

We may be a vocal minority, which is why this site hasn't grown as much as it should have. But I'm sure there are many out there who feel the same way, but just don't know how to express it or are afraid or think they are the only one.

Rock · Post by **Rock** » November 11th, 2011, 8:30 am

Biggest issues I have with this site sometimes:

1. Tendency to lump the world into America (which for some is an icon for the west) and abroad. America is hell and abroad is paradise. Its as if once you cross that American border, the world magically changes. Perhaps touting such a stark and simplistic contrast gets people's attention. But to anyone who thinks critically, it raises red flags. And it can create unrealistic expectations in those who totally buy into the key messages being sold here.

America has some huge problems and can be a type of social/work hell for many men. But randomly expatriating is not always the solution. First, part of the problem may be with the guys themselves. The American social climate in which they developed has stripped many of them of their masculinity. So when they go abroad, they may be further abused by the women they meet. Weak guys are at big risk of being used by opportunistic women the world over.

Many countries are more painful to live in for a regular guy than the US, even for those with some money. For example, I got to know deportees in Brazil and Haiti. Both of them had grown-up in the States as green card holders and were thrown out as young adults for crimes - one for killing someone in a car accident and the other for drug use. The new countries they live in had easy social environments and relatively friendly women. But both guys were miserable and just wanted to find a way back to the States, even though they had access to reasonable financial resources to enjoy their countries of birth. Of course, they were both localized and fluent in their own languages so they had no illusions about what was really going on around them. One of them ended up sneaking back into the States via Mexico. He would rather be an illegal in the States than a local in Brazil.

2. Too much ranting and not enough focus on specific detailed solutions. You know, on ISG, there is a section on American women. Its got dozens if not hundreds pages which go into great depth on how terrible American women are. I think about any relevant complaint or insult you could imagine is there, pretty exhaustive. That's probably as good an outlet as any to air frustrations about them. But for this site, I wish there was a little less ranting and more focus on creative solutions to specific problems - guys with no money, older guys, guys from a certain race (we do have some, I would just like more) and long term success testimonials which back-up some of these solutions. Lets see some guys score LT relationships with some of those hot girls from the various dating site sponsors which Winston often posts photos of. Obsessing to much on how bad American women are and how they've damaged you gives them power. Many may secretly feel good when they see how bad they've hurt you. I think a much more effective way to fight back is to act strong and aloof towards them while just voting with your feet - either by just leaving the States or dating only foreign women (FOB types from various 'good' countries or girls in say Mexico) and being very visible and vocal about it and how happy it makes you.

Grunt · Post by **Grunt** » November 11th, 2011, 11:47 am

I vote falcon be made a global moderator immediately. He makes no real mention of the comic ineptitude of the average America female. He also makes no real effort to highlight the massive benefit the average American man can expect from simply visiting a foreign nation. And lastly, he fully supports the concept of more talk, less action. All in all, falcon is the archtypical newfag. Fresh out of the newfag factory. Still has that newfag smell. When you add into it the fact that he just showed up only a few days ago, yet somehow feels entitled to issue a manifesto, you will see this is pure newfag gold. All hair falcon, king of the newfags!

Falcon · Post by **Falcon** » November 11th, 2011, 12:06 pm

Grunt wrote:I vote falcon be made a global moderator immediately. He makes no real mention of the comic ineptitude of the average America female. He also makes no real effort to highlight the massive benefit the average American man can expect from simply visiting a foreign nation. And lastly, he fully supports the concept of more talk, less action. All in all, falcon is the archtypical newfag. Fresh out of the newfag factory. Still has that newfag smell. When you add into it the fact that he just showed up only a few days ago, yet somehow feels entitled to issue a manifesto, you will see this is pure newfag gold. All hair falcon, king of the newfags!

Thanks for the laughs. No, I did often "mention ... the comic ineptitude of the average America female" and "highlight the massive benefit the average American man can expect from simply visiting a foreign nation."

MEXICO: Success Story from an Asian-American College Student
viewtopic.php?t=11808

My Mexican girlfriend vs. American college girls
viewtopic.php?t=11828

RESEARCH: Mexican men prefer Mexico women over U.S. women
viewtopic.php?t=11842

Just offering my two cents, and that's completely it.

Falcon · Post by **Falcon** » November 11th, 2011, 12:09 pm

Winston wrote: The most important thing is to let people speak freely without censorship, as much as reasonably possible.

Some people care more about appearances than others. It is male nature to be focused on looks. We shouldn't lie about that and pretend we don't go for looks. Honest and free speech are the most important things, I think.

Don't you agree?

Yes I do. I never said anything about censorship. Those are only suggestions for what would be better discussion topics and posts, and not guidelines for censorship.

Grunt · Post by **Grunt** » November 11th, 2011, 12:12 pm

Oh, you say you have been to Mexico? Icing on the CAKE! I advance my vote to falcon for world president for life.

How to deal with newbies that talk much but do little.

Pics or it didn't happen.

YES/NO

Cool story, bro.

Problem solved.

Falcon · Post by **Falcon** » November 11th, 2011, 12:18 pm

Rock wrote:Biggest issues I have with this site sometimes:

1. Tendency to lump the world into America (which for some is an icon for the west) and abroad. America is hell and abroad is paradise. Its as if once you cross that American border, the world magically changes. Perhaps touting such a stark and simplistic contrast gets people's attention. But to anyone who thinks critically, it raises red flags. And it can create unrealistic expectations in those who totally buy into the key messages being sold here.

America has some huge problems and can be a type of social/work hell for many men. But randomly expatriating is not always the solution. First, part of the problem may be with the guys themselves. The American social climate in which they developed has stripped many of them of their masculinity. So when they go abroad, they may be further abused by the women they meet. Weak guys are at big risk of being used by opportunistic women the world over.

Many countries are more painful to live in for a regular guy than the US, even for those with some money. For example, I got to know deportees in Brazil and Haiti. Both of them had grown-up in the States as green card holders and were thrown out as young adults for crimes - one for killing someone in a car accident and the other for drug use. The new countries they live in had easy social environments and relatively friendly women. But both guys were miserable and just wanted to find a way back to the States, even though they had access to reasonable financial resources to enjoy their countries of birth. Of course, they were both localized and fluent in their own languages so they had no illusions about what was really going on around them. One of them ended up sneaking back into the States via Mexico. He would rather be an illegal in the States than a local in Brazil.

2. Too much ranting and not enough focus on specific detailed solutions. You know, on ISG, there is a section on American women. Its got dozens if not hundreds pages which go into great depth on how terrible American women are. I think about any relevant complaint or insult you could imagine is there, pretty exhaustive. That's probably as good an outlet as any to air frustrations about them. But for this site, I wish there was a little less ranting and more focus on creative solutions to specific problems - guys with no money, older guys, guys from a certain race (we do have some, I would just like more) and long term success testimonials which back-up some of these solutions. Lets see some guys score LT relationships with some of those hot girls from the various dating site sponsors which Winston often posts photos of. Obsessing to much on how bad American women are and how they've damaged you gives them power. Many may secretly feel good when they see how bad they've hurt you. I think a much more effective way to fight back is to act strong and aloof towards them while just voting with your feet - either by just leaving the States or dating only foreign women (FOB types from various 'good' countries or girls in say Mexico) and being very visible and vocal about it and how happy it makes you.

Right on, and those were also my main points. Thanks Rock!

Repatriate · Post by **Repatriate** » November 11th, 2011, 12:19 pm

Let's not jump the gun here Falcon has posted some pretty good info about Mexico plus his experiences around Mexicans mirrors my own experiences in CA with fresh immigrants.

Falcon · Post by **Falcon** » November 11th, 2011, 12:33 pm

I'm not against any of you guys here; on the contrary, I've found most of you to be really supportive and open-minded. I find it really pleasant how most people on this forum are much more articulate, logical, free-thinking, and intelligent than members of many other online forums.

And Grunt, I'm enthusiastically supporting HappierAbroad's basic claims with my posts, and you're saying "cool story bro." You're being a little contradictory, don't you think (please don't get offended, you're still a cool guy!)? Plenty of success stories here are not backed up with multi-page Winston-style collages, and I believe them.

And thumbs up to Winston for not censoring this site or mass banning people with differing ideas. His lifestyle's not the main point here. Clinton and Berlusconi may not lead the best private lives, but they sure know how to do their job. That's why they still have so many supporters. Similarly, Winston is the only guy who could create such an impressive website (and many more too). Administering and maintaining multiple websites of such gigantic sizes is something that no ordinary person could do. I am thoroughly impressed.

What I'm saying is: We're not perfect. Here's my opinion about the imperfections. That's it.

Rock on Winston and HappierAbroad!

Grunt · Post by **Grunt** » November 11th, 2011, 12:40 pm

Here is the plan, falcon. You need to drone on endlessly, putting yourself up as the self-proclaimed expert on this subject. Then, as an effort to consolidate your position, post NO PICTURES WHATSOEVER! Even though you claim to be an "old hand" with the Mexican ladies. That is a key facet of newfag-ism: Lots of talk, no evidence. You can do it man, I have faith in you.

Follow my advice, and your position as the biggest newfag in the universe will be carved in stone. Ready...set...go!

Falcon · Post by **Falcon** » November 11th, 2011, 12:47 pm

Grunt wrote:Here is the plan, falcon. You need to drone on endlessly, putting yourself up as the self-proclaimed expert on this subject. Then, as an effort to consolidate your position, post NO PICTURES WHATSOEVER! Even though you claim to be an "old hand" with the Mexican ladies. That is a key facet of newfag-ism: Lots of talk, no evidence. You can do it man, I have faith in you.

Follow my advice, and your position as the biggest newfag in the universe will be carved in stone. Ready...set...go!

Trololol. If you look at Grunt's former posts, he has a long history of posting the word "newfag" everywhere. Judging by his avatar, that's not surprising.

Now if "newfags" start posting pics, he'll start accusing them of ripping photos off other websites and photoshopping them.

Welcome 4chan migrant. We enjoy your wonderful presence. I do not detest your presence, since I can get lots of laughs from your enlightening posts. After all, I support free speech. Have a nice day.

S_Parc · Post by **S_Parc** » November 11th, 2011, 5:23 pm

Falcon,

Once Winston and team kicked out the obvious trolls/ghouls like the psychotic OTA and the adolescent PF, the board has been fine.

There are very few who look at the USA as 100% bad, but if you look at it, from a polarized lighting p.o.v, if you're not a die-hard workaholic, media/race car/sports player, or such, the place resembles an apartheid system but in this case, it's a male and female caste orientation whereas the classical divides between race and ethnicity are more based upon convenience and location. This is quite a contrast from a century ago.

Therefore, by having a successful career, I've tuned out the American women around me and thus, have a good life. I can easily make a short day trip to Canada, for R&R, and be back for a busy week schedule. Can everyone else be as focused as me, to make their American life a viable way of being, as oppose to living abroad? Not sure there.