In the US, you need to develop your clique of friends early

jamesbond · Post by **jamesbond** » March 19th, 2008, 9:38 pm

In America, you need to develop your clique of friends early in life starting in grade school. If your lucky enough to get into a good social group and REMAIN friends with them after you are out of school, you will have a good social life and should be able to meet lots of women through your clique of friends. On the other hand, if you don't develop a good social network early in life, then as Winston would say...you are screwed! There is an old saying, 'it takes money to make money' well in America, 'it takes people to meet people.'

Post by **Winston** » March 20th, 2008, 2:33 am

Sometimes I think you are my alter ego, James Bond. lol

Well said. But not only that. It also depends on what TYPE of clique you get into.

Some cliques are static and never have new members.

Others consist mostly of guys or unattractive women.

You have to belong to one that's cool, popular, that everyone wants to get into, etc. There are many such cliques in LA, a very noninclusive place though.

So even if you have a clique and people to hang out with a lot, your social life is still LIMITED WITHIN that clique.

If you happen to be in a clique with an attractive girl that likes you (e.g. Ross and Rachel in the "Friends" sitcom) then lucky you. But even then, you only have one choice, whereas overseas where I'm at, I have MANY MANY choices among beautiful women.

And don't forget the constant politics and humoring that you have to do with everyone in the clique, leaving you little time for other hobbies.

CyX · Post by **CyX** » March 21st, 2008, 12:34 pm

The clique problem is one of the parts of your book that I sort of agree with, and it's really prevalent...

But I don't think it's widespread. It's just human behavior. It's only worse in the USA because we're a culture that's naturally afraid of things and is very xenophobic. You have to go outside your comfort zone to interact with people away from your "pack"... Americans are afraid of leaving the comfort zone.

But if you go to a club and you see groups of people laughing and having fun, I think you might mistakenly presume they're an old group of friends.. the truth is that it's possible they all met that night, or somebody in the group is really good at breaking the ice and warmed up to them.

I think MOST people meet their lovers through social cliques from work, school, or wherever. But, finding a group that includes a lot of attractive women is hard unless the men are super high caliber. So, for most of us guys, we gotta learn the skill of the "cold approach" which requires dynamite social skills... but it pays off

Cyrus K

jamesbond · Post by **jamesbond** » March 22nd, 2008, 9:26 pm

WWu777 wrote:Sometimes I think you are my alter ego, James Bond. lol

Well said. But not only that. It also depends on what TYPE of clique you get into.

Some cliques are static and never have new members.

Others consist mostly of guys or unattractive women.

You have to belong to one that's cool, popular, that everyone wants to get into, etc. There are many such cliques in LA, a very noninclusive place though.

So even if you have a clique and people to hang out with a lot, your social life is still LIMITED WITHIN that clique.

If you happen to be in a clique with an attractive girl that likes you (e.g. Ross and Rachel in the "Friends" sitcom) then lucky you. But even then, you only have one choice, whereas overseas where I'm at, I have MANY MANY choices among beautiful women.

And don't forget the constant politics and humoring that you have to do with everyone in the clique, leaving you little time for other hobbies.

I just read a survey on the internet that said 78% of women in America want to meet a guy through their friends! It also stated women do not feel comfortable with men approaching them in public. The women said there are too many guys out there who are creeps and they want to weed them out so they turn to their friends to introduce them to someone. I can understand the womens fear of perhaps meeting some guys but most guys are just normal people! If you just rely on your friends to introduce you to someone, that is very limiting.

Jackal · Post by **Jackal** » March 25th, 2008, 8:25 pm

In America, I don't think you necessarily have to make friends early in life, but you have to learn to convincingly play one of the available roles.

For instance, a guy who has learned how to be a convincing big, burly biker-dude in West Virginia probably won't have any problem making new friends with other local big, burly biker-dudes in Arizona if he moves there.

Similarly, a convincing rich, preppy kid from New York City probably won't have much trouble making new friends with rich, preppy kids in San Francisco or Chicago.

And people who play different "roles" often live completely different lives which don't overlap at all. I think it's simply becoming more and more forbidden for people to meet others of a very different "role".

I use the word "role" because it is more than just a clique: It is a whole system beliefs, traditions, fashion, and physical manerisms that shows others who play the same "role" that you are really "one of them".

American social life is often like a tense, psychological cold war between these rival "guilds".

Post by **Winston** » March 29th, 2008, 3:23 am

Jackal,
Definitely, the social roles are a factor as well, as well as cliques. Both play major factors I think. The problem for me though, was that I didn't fit into any role or clique in high school, and so was painfully ostracized from everything, both good and bad, thus I had no experiences to "grow up" with. Thus my emotional level was lower than my chronological age. It was only my experiences abroad, where I started to live and have experiences, that closed that gap.

Otherwise, in the US I can't grow or evolve cause I'm not in the game, nothing happens to me, I'm just ignored and ostracized from everything. And that is excruciating to me, cause I need action, sometimes.

Post by **Winston** » March 31st, 2008, 8:34 am

What I never understood though, is how you join a clique. I mean you can't just walk up to one and ask to join. That would have been freakish in high school. And I wasn't comfortable even trying to fit into a clique too. That's why I never went to parties, went out on dates, or had any social life in high school. I had a few nerds to hang out with, but even that was temporary. I never figured out how to join a clique in high school. It felt totally unnatural, made me feel insecure, and uncomfortable as well.

momopi · Post by **momopi** » March 31st, 2008, 10:28 am

In the CA Jail system, inmates would form smaller cliques and hang out at a bench in the exercise area. The slang for the bench or seating area is "car". If the people you hanged out with are cool, then your car is a Caddie. If you hanged out with lame people, then your car is a Yugo. To join these cliques, you're either invited, or have to befriend someone in it.

High school is kinda like that, except less dangerous, and people more open. I joined a few cliques on-campus from friends and clubs. Unlike East Asia, school friends tend to go their separate ways after graduation in US cities (but probably not rural towns). I only keep in touch with 2 guys and 1 girl from HS now, down from couple dozen.

jamesbond · Post by **jamesbond** » March 31st, 2008, 9:23 pm

WWu777 wrote:What I never understood though, is how you join a clique. I mean you can't just walk up to one and ask to join. That would have been freakish in high school. And I wasn't comfortable even trying to fit into a clique too. That's why I never went to parties, went out on dates, or had any social life in high school. I had a few nerds to hang out with, but even that was temporary. I never figured out how to join a clique in high school. It felt totally unnatural, made me feel insecure, and uncomfortable as well.

Good points Winston. How do you join a click? It was easier to meet people when you go away to college as opposed to high school. People in high school are extreamly clickish. Kids in grade school seem more open and friendly than kids in high school. College is probably the best years of your life as far as meeting people goes, although it may be better for some than for others. There is an old saying, "If you can't get laid in college, then you can't get laid." That's not necessarly true, although going away to college does increase your chances of hooking up with people.

Jackal · Post by **Jackal** » April 1st, 2008, 1:09 am

WWu777 wrote:What I never understood though, is how you join a clique.

Well, the first way is to have grown up in a very similar environment as the people in the clique so that you naturally act and think the same way they do (i.e. have the "right" parents and the "right" childhood). In this case, joining the clique is as easy as a brief conversation.

The second way, is meet one of the members of the clique away from the other members and charm him into thinking that with a little work you would be a good addition to the clique. If you keep charming this person and don't commit a major faux pas, he will continue doing things with you and it's up to you to start to learn his culture and imitate him in some ways (like the apprenticeship in "Donnie Brasco"). Basically you have to act like you're absorbing a foreign culture eventhough you are still in your same dumbass home country. Eventually he will introduce you to the other members of the clique and if they don't throw you out, you can probably stay.

But I think people can only transform themselves within a certain range. Someone who has spent the last 10 years as a Harley biker dude will not fit in at a private yacht club no matter what he does. And the yacht club people will not fit in with tough bikers no matter what they do. Also a person can often only join cliques within the range of their personal attractiveness. Being an average looking guy, I can't join the "super hot clique", the people that actually have good chances in bars and nightclubs, no matter how I dress--well, if I were rich it might get me in.

I've been in the "apprentice" position a few times, but I either made a mistake or didn't care about conforming enough so I never really made it into the cliques.

The only clique I belonged to in high school was the "clique of outcasts", the most intellectual, weird, and nonconformist people that sat together at lunch time and our mere presence made both jocks and popular girls incredibly uncomfortable.

I think the difficulty of joining cliques in America mirrors the difficulty of dating. People keep subdividing society and walling themselves off for increasing trivial reasons and pretty soon we're all just prisoners in our little social cubicles.

jamesbond · Post by **jamesbond** » May 1st, 2008, 3:04 am

WWu777 wrote:What I never understood though, is how you join a clique. I mean you can't just walk up to one and ask to join. That would have been freakish in high school. And I wasn't comfortable even trying to fit into a clique too. That's why I never went to parties, went out on dates, or had any social life in high school. I had a few nerds to hang out with, but even that was temporary. I never figured out how to join a clique in high school. It felt totally unnatural, made me feel insecure, and uncomfortable as well.

Good points Winston. Joining a clique is difficult especially in high school. High school kids especially have the cliquish mentality. It is very difficult to brake into established cliques unless someone invites you to join them. Even after high school, Americans are cliquish and stay within their own group of friends. Ladislav has talked about the cliquish of Americans and how they like to stay with the people they know and don't feel comfortable meeting new people. The British are the same way, very cliquish and not really open to meeting new people very easily.

Grunt · Post by **Grunt** » May 14th, 2008, 1:53 pm

Most of the people I grew up with still live within 100 miles of where they were born. Few, if any, have traveled abroad let alone lived abroad for any length of time.

I tried talking to a guy I went to high school with. We were thick as thieves back in the day. Now he is divorced, has a miserable hard labor job, lives in a hyper-crappy rental house in the Mayfair section of Philadelphia with 4 other washouts, and STILL dreams of "making it big" with his rock and roll band. Never mind that he is almost 40 years old and spends his weekends trying to organize 19 year old punk kids to "take the band seriously".

Its basically the same song he was singing back in 1985. It makes me want to sit and weep. Few of my other friends are doing much better. I am no superman, but I have a wonderful wife, full military pension, well traveled, own my own company, own my own house plus a vacation rental, could be better but could certainly be worse. I have opions before me that are truly remarkable.

But when I check on my peers, or the "clique", I'm quite happy to keep my Lone Wolf status. I have a few close friends, all combat veterans, that I congregate with but other then that social interaction is vastly over rated.

jamesbond · Post by **jamesbond** » May 27th, 2008, 4:26 am

Grunt wrote:Most of the people I grew up with still live within 100 miles of where they were born. Few, if any, have traveled abroad let alone lived abroad for any length of time.

I tried talking to a guy I went to high school with. We were thick as thieves back in the day. Now he is divorced, has a miserable hard labor job, lives in a hyper-crappy rental house in the Mayfair section of Philadelphia with 4 other washouts, and STILL dreams of "making it big" with his rock and roll band. Never mind that he is almost 40 years old and spends his weekends trying to organize 19 year old punk kids to "take the band seriously".

Its basically the same song he was singing back in 1985. It makes me want to sit and weep. Few of my other friends are doing much better. I am no superman, but I have a wonderful wife, full military pension, well traveled, own my own company, own my own house plus a vacation rental, could be better but could certainly be worse. I have opions before me that are truly remarkable.

But when I check on my peers, or the "clique", I'm quite happy to keep my Lone Wolf status. I have a few close friends, all combat veterans, that I congregate with but other then that social interaction is vastly over rated.

It's funny how the people you go to school with (grade school, high school and college) you usually don't remain friends with for long after you get out of school. People usually go their own way and lose touch with their friends after school. However, some people do remain close with their friends from school for their whole life but that is pretty rare.

Erasmus · Post by **Erasmus** » June 3rd, 2008, 7:49 pm

I was just thinking of this today. Most of the people I know with long time friends have been friends since at least High School. Running with the same crowd.

E_Irizarry · Post by **E_Irizarry** » July 16th, 2008, 3:29 am

jamesbond wrote:... the cliquish of Americans and how they like to stay with the people they know and don't feel comfortable meeting new people. The British are the same way, very cliquish and not really open to meeting new people very easily.

America, a few hundred years ago, indoctrinated the callous, pompous, capitalist mentality from the biggest motherlode imperialistic bitch before FemeriKKKa snatched up that title: ENGLAND, now entailing the whole U.K.

What really saddens me is that, via feminism, racism is rearing its ugly head covertly throughout the rest of the world:

1) White-washed mentality: "I hate my skin; I want it white as pure snow and innocent" <---- colonial Western/N. European complex instilled in minorities to help weed out the competition so the oppressor can be superior to others (ie. convincing propaganda tactic).

2) "I hate being fat" <---- started in Europe's standard of beauty after the Renaissance period until contemporary 2008. When was the last time you heard of Anglo people en masse admitting that fat is sexy? You have not heard that shit since Michaelangelo was painting full-figured chicks on the ceiling of the Sistine Chapel.

Because of this anti-fat propaganda, other countries took their oppressor's complex and ridiculed anybody with it that is/was fat, including the oppressor's themselves whom were/are fat.

So in Asia and most of the world now, outside of Africa and Saudi Arabia (where dark and fat are accepted), there's a saying: "If it isn't light-skinned and trim, then it's not in". And that's sad that people eat that shit up like Scooby Snacks.