A new convert speaks. Feedback welcome.

[Sasha V.]

Hey guys (and girls),

I've been lurking for a little while, and wanted to say thank you to everyone that contributes to this board, and to Winston and Ladislav in particular for their eBooks and the sheer amount of energy they put into creating tools that help others improve their lives.

I am a Russian-born U.S. immigrant, who like Winston and perhaps others here has had a very difficult time connecting with people in the U.S. I would always have a few friends here and there but I never 'fit in' anywhere, not even the 'weird kid' groups. I would often pride myself that even the social misfits of american culture considered me an outsider, and would remind myself that i'm not the problem - I just never had the skill to be a conformist.

On the other hand, statistically speaking, I never had problems getting girlfriends. My social skills for most of my life fell somewhere between 'non-existent' and 'shit', but I was confident (unaware) and assertive (rude). I also knew how to genuinely connect with people, especially women, and I suppose that set me apart. I had far more 'success' with women than most people I know, but it was mostly because I put in a huge amount of work.

At some point I discovered Game (after I was told by a girl that I was gaming her), and started absorbing everything I could. I learned all about female psychology and what women responded to.. but I couldn't bring myself to be disengenuine with people. Lying or even manipulating someone into a relationship destroys any possibility of a real connection between two people.

What I did find useful in the community was the idea of 'Inner game', as it was called. In short, "Work on yourself, Become awesome, and everything else will follow". And so, I have been focusing on self actualization for the last several years.

I've become a positive, outgoing person (I used to be very negative). I now have above-average social skills (stellar for a math nerd), I'm very good at reading people, I'm in good shape (years of martial arts), I own a business, and I make sure, every day, to be a good, kind, honest, compassionate, genuine human being to those around me.

Now, I'm only 30 years old, and not fully self-actualized or anything, but I feel that I'm doing pretty well. Here's the rub - 'everything else' doesn't seem to follow. The average (reasonably attractive) american woman still isn't interested in me... even the not-so attractive ones. Am I a leper or something? I still have to put in a lot of work and find very specific (though usually amazing) people to form *any* sort of connection. And I'm getting tired of it.

Even making friends is incredibly difficult. People seem to have no need of anyone new or different in their lives. No one seems to judge anyone on the nature of their character - just how effective one is at working the system.

It seems that being self-actuallized is not the same thing as being 'awesome'. You have to be awesome in a very, very specific way - a way that people can quickly identify and understand. Is seems that when people can't identify and associate you with some social archetype, they get confused, and simply filter you out of their existence rather than try to find out more. I bet that if the Dali-Lama walked in to a modern coffee shop, even he, with his amazing personal presence, would be ignored.

It takes a certain level of human-ness to recognize it and appreciate it in others, and it seems that most American women (maybe men too? I don't know) are so devoid of it that they can't even recognize it or it's worth in others.

At this point I feel somewhat liberated - even though most american women are not, by default, interested in me, I am completely disinterested in them. I just don't see what they offer me on a human level. They are rarely that attractive (though some are), and they are mediocre in bed. I may be in the minority here, but I find that 'banging' a girl is boring. Sex without emotional connection and warmth just isn't worthwhile. Neither is hiding my emotions and pretending to be an aloof jerk just to get someone interested.

On the other hand, I've had the extreme fortune to date 2 Filipina girls: one several years ago, and one just a few months back. They were the warmest, most sensual and sexual women I've been with. They certainly had their faults, but they were both able, more than anyone else, to make me feel like a man, if that makes any sense. I didn't realize it with the first Filipina girl - I just thought it was a fluke. After the second one, though, the pattern became clear. Unfortunately, until I stumbled onto this site, I never considered just packing my bag and going there. Now I can't find much of a reason to stay.

They only thing keeping me here is the several month commitment I made to a (very) good kickboxing gym, and the fact that I don't have as steady a source of income from my business as I would like. Yet. I'm working on it.

I could go on, but I want to thank you all for reading my rant/introduction, and I welcome any feedback. I'm sure I'll have all sorts of pratical questions when the time gets closer, but most of what's on my mind now, besides ramping up my income, is this:

Am I too young to be giving up on life here? Or sooner is better?

Is life (social life) really that different in the Filipines or somewhere else?

What are my chances of finding genuine, high quality girls that I can connect with there?

Thanks again for reading,
--Sasha

[Winston]

Welcome Sasha!
Glad you joined us. You are a good looking friendly cheerful guy. Perhaps your personality is too deep or genuine. Such types have a hard time fitting in in America.

It sounds like you click with Filipinas well. I'm sure you'd do very well in the Philippines, but the living conditions are third world. Like others said, if you get involved in wholesome activities there, I'm sure you can meet middle class quality Filipinas. In general, Filipinas are very sweet and appreciative, but not very intellectual.

I'll see if Filipina on this forum can tell you anything about your compatibility in the Philippines. She is a wise middle class Filipina with good intentions.

Have you been to Russia? Why don't you consider going there? Or Eastern Europe? The women are very approachable and carefree there. See my videos of them: http://www.happierabroad.com/film.php

[Winston]

Billy,
Shut the hell up. You don't know crap. Your views are narrow, bigoted, cold, shallow and lame. You are also very twisted.

The Dalai Lama and Ghandhi have never done anything wrong. They don't have a mean bone in their body. How could they be fascist when they've done nothing but stood for peace? Your logic is zero. You might as well say that Hitler was a man of peace. You seem to live in a strange bizarro world.

Yes there are cold practicalities in this world. But there are good people too. Good quality sincere women prefer men like Sasha, who are warm, sensitive, cheerful and sincere. They don't like men like you who are arrogant, twisted, and shallow. You would not be a fun person to be around billy. You wouldn't do well with Filipinas because personality types like yours repel them and make them feel uncomfortable. I've seen it many times. Guys like you have a really negative insensitive vibe. Women don't like that. They prefer genuine cheerful guys like Sasha.

You are the loser billy, projecting your loser status on others.

Your mind is extremely narrow, bigoted and you have zero logic skills. You say there is nothing wrong with AW. Have you seen Steve Neese's Research Report? It conclusively proves with experts that AW are dysfunctional and narcissistic and mostly to blame for the social and dating problems in America. If you read it, you wouldn't make asinine statements like that. See here:

http://www.happierabroad.com/Research.htm

Billy, you suck at seeing the big picture. You only see the narrowest picture of things. Your advice is worth shit. Stop giving your shit advice to other people. Keep it to yourself. Stop trying to drag others down with you. Let the wise experts give advice around here. Not you. You are nothing but pure stupidity. Nothing more, nothing less.

No one with any personality, soul or wisdom would say "There is no love or genuineness, it's all about money." Only the most shallow people with no soul would make such a statement. Guys who talk like that are not liked by women, because they have no depth or sensitivity and are no fun to be with. They do not understand women either. A man who thinks like that is very boring to be around too. I know from experience. They tend to have shitty personalities and women are uncomfortable around them. Saying that statement is an indication of who YOU are billy. Men who say that have no understanding about women. And it shows. No one who connects with women well would say that it's all about money. Only the dumbest and most unlikable men say that.

I don't know a single guy successful with women who thinks "It's all about the money." The type of guys who say that are not successful with women at all. They don't connect with or understand women at all. I'll bet you've never had a meaningful or quality relationship with women, Billy. You suck. So stop giving advice please.

[Winston]

Hey billy,
I got shocking news for your stupid shallow mind. Yesterday my friend in the Philippines told me that she broke it off with this well off Australian guy who wanted to bring her to Australia. Although she's interested in going abroad and visiting Australia, she told me, "I just can't force myself to love someone I don't, just to go to Australia. He gave me a lot of gifts and offered me an allowance, but I just can't bring myself to love him if I don't." So she canceled her plans to go with him there, since she doesn't want to lead him on.

BUSTED BILLY!

I hear stuff like that from girls all the time. How does your "it's all about money, women are all about money" philosophy explain that? It doesn't, so shut the hell up billy. You don't know shit about anything.

If you keep annoying the forum with stupid asinine points, I'm going to have to get rid of you.

[Truthville]

Welcome Sasha!

Please ignore Winston and Billy, they got their own weird dynamic- love/hate type thing going on.

You make really good points Sasha about the strange unfriendly vibe most people have here. Winston articulates these points very well in his ebook and on this forum. Others have their own stories as well, as I do.

The "inner game" you describe is something, I have found, can actually REPEL people here due to many factors. One, I believe is, most people are miserable here and hate seeing positive people. It just makes them realize how unhappy their own live are.

As the Stone Temple Pilots sang "Is it you?..........is it me.........search for things that we can't see.......going blind.......out of reach.....somewhere in the vasoline. " Sorry man, just love that song.

I do think that it describes American society metaphorically.

Anyway, I'm really not an expert on anything BUT I'm older than you(41) and I am thinking of doing what you are thinking of doing. The advice people give here, especially the people whom have lived or are living in the P.I. is, I believe, visit first and decide later. That is what I am going to do.

Once again welcome.....

[Sasha V.]

Winston,

Thank you for the welcome.

I too worry that most Filipinas are not particularly intellectual. On the other hand, one of the girls I dated was an extremely talented artist, and I appreciated that about her. The other was, even in English, an excellent writer. However I always had a hard time having certain kinds of conversations with them. Also, contrary to billy's generalization, they were both extremely good looking - certainly much better looking than me.

On the other hand, I have dated girls that were *extremely* smart - two of them work at Google, another was a PhD. in Robotics, another a math teacher, etc, but what I found, over time, was that they were not developed as human beings. They were smart about math and science and the world, I could talk to them about anything, but they weren't emotionally developed and made poor relationship partners.

My Filipina ex always used to say "You can have everything you want, just not all at once". Maybe that's just how it is.

As for Russian girls.. I don't know. I am Russian, but I have some odd distaste towards Russian women. Something rubs me wrong about them. I'll figure it out at some point.

I also like Latinas a lot. They are energetic, lively, warm, self-possessed and hot as hell. I think I may have to check out Brazil.

Billy: Not all women are about money. If it was true, I'd still be a virgin.

HOWEVER: women become about money when they know about nothing better. Girls who have never felt love or desire settle for money because they've never experienced anything deeper.

As for NA women.. I don't know - I see plenty of things that are just unsatisfying, at least to me. I too used to feel that it's a downgrade, but at this point I just don't see it that way.

I think there is this sense people have that if you give up on something difficult that makes you miserable, you are a loser and a failure, that you must push ahead at any cost. But that kind of thinking is just dumb - there are certain battle that make no sense to fight, that make you no happier even if you win. It's like wrestling with a pig - no matter the outcome, you are covered with shit.

[Sasha V.]

Hey Truthville,

Thanks for the welcome.

You are right about 'inner game' pushing people away. I notice that the more I have my life together, the *harder* it is to connect, yet again.

People think I'm weird because I'm generally happy and smile a lot, and find it completely bizarre when I don't know how to answer simple questions like "What do you do (for work)?". I certainly can't empathize on feeling stressed, or downtrodden all the time simply because I'm not. The only thing that really nags me is lack of human relations - but that's exactly the thing that I can't talk to those same people about.

[Mr S]

Billy,
Shut the hell up. You don't know crap. Your views are narrow, bigoted, cold, shallow and lame. You are also very twisted.

The Dalai Lama and Ghandhi have never done anything wrong. They don't have a mean bone in their body. How could they be fascist when they've done nothing but stood for peace? Your logic is zero. You might as well say that Hitler was a man of peace. You seem to live in a strange bizarro world.

Yes there are cold practicalities in this world. But there are good people too. Good quality sincere women prefer men like Sasha, who are warm, sensitive, cheerful and sincere. They don't like men like you who are arrogant, twisted, and shallow. You would not be a fun person to be around billy. You wouldn't do well with Filipinas because personality types like yours repel them and make them feel uncomfortable. I've seen it many times. Guys like you have a really negative insensitive vibe. Women don't like that. They prefer genuine cheerful guys like Sasha.

You are the loser billy, projecting your loser status on others.

Your mind is extremely narrow, bigoted and you have zero logic skills. You say there is nothing wrong with AW. Have you seen Steve Neese's Research Report? It conclusively proves with experts that AW are dysfunctional and narcissistic and mostly to blame for the social and dating problems in America. If you read it, you wouldn't make asinine statements like that. See here:

http://www.happierabroad.com/Research.htm

Billy, you suck at seeing the big picture. You only see the narrowest picture of things. Your advice is worth shit. Stop giving your shit advice to other people. Keep it to yourself. Stop trying to drag others down with you. Let the wise experts give advice around here. Not you. You are nothing but pure stupidity. Nothing more, nothing less.

No one with any personality, soul or wisdom would say "There is no love or genuineness, it's all about money." Only the most shallow people with no soul would make such a statement. Guys who talk like that are not liked by women, because they have no depth or sensitivity and are no fun to be with. They do not understand women either. A man who thinks like that is very boring to be around too. I know from experience. They tend to have shitty personalities and women are uncomfortable around them. Saying that statement is an indication of who YOU are billy. Men who say that have no understanding about women. And it shows. No one who connects with women well would say that it's all about money. Only the dumbest and most unlikable men say that.

I don't know a single guy successful with women who thinks "It's all about the money." The type of guys who say that are not successful with women at all. They don't connect with or understand women at all. I'll bet you've never had a meaningful or quality relationship with women, Billy. You suck. So stop giving advice please.

Before you give endless praises that Gandhi and the Dali Lama can do no wrong, I would suggest you watch this episode of Penn and Teller's Bullshit. Since you say you want to know the truth about things then this should provide the evidence that you claim doesn't exist about them being all about "peace":



BTW, You shouldn't be telling anyone, including Billy who can give advice and who can't. You are walking a thin-line with open-mindedness and petty dictatorship. What you should be doing is encouraging more postings and commentary and people can pick and choose what they want to read and follow up on. By minimizing certain posters because you don't like what they have to say doesn't really solve anything, your trying to expose why you were upset at them about whatever hurt your ego instead on just letting it go or commenting rationally without emotions getting involved. Whenever anybody posts anything on this forum they are opening themselves up to attack, praise or passivity. Just because you don't like Billy's posts or how he calls you on some shit doesn't mean that he doesn't have a valid point from HIS PERSPECTIVE. It doesn't mean he is necessarily correct either, but it produces commentary and discussion and not just a Winston Happier Abroad view of things.

Also he is not a native speaker and him posting using what English writing skills he possesses is actually quite admirable of him. I don't see any other posters who are not native or near-native speakers posting on this forum regularly. Most non-natives are too embarrassed to write in English on a majority English user website. If you don't like what he has to say ignore him and focus on other discussion posts. You don't need to personally defend every post that you think is directed against your character or Happier Abroad philosophy.

[Winston]

Winston, you can kick me otu no problem with that. But your free speech would be gone. I didn´t even insult somebody.

When money would not count that much , why don´t you "like" the expensive countries like western europe? Because you would have no chance. Everybody knows you go to cheap ass countries as you have no other options. Should I remember you about 14 reasons why AC sucks? It sucks because it´s a cheap whores 4th world country location.

Hey I am not saying that only money counts. But it makes things easier measurable. Everybody knows girls like status. And money is the easy way to find it out. Why can´t you attract middle class pinay girls? You are too frugal. When you would demonstrate status, you would get girls everywhere in the world. BAM - YOU LOSE - YOU GOT OWNED

When I would have money like Berlusconi I never would f**k 1-8. Only 9th and 10th. That for shure. And you? Everybody wants to gain status from their strong parts. The intellectual from brain power, the physical form his phyisis etc. Thats´s normal. But money=girls. That is a no brainer.

How would you know how Sasha is? How would you know that? Your a sex addict whore monger. Makes you that an authority?

I am here at this forum for entertainment reasons, and to improve my english writings skills. People who want to be successfull abroad have to be skilled a lot of work has to be done. That´s nothing which should be easily dicided.

BAM BUSTED

Dude you don't know shit about anything. You are like a child. The reason I'd have a hard time in Western Europe is because:

1) White women are not attracted to Asian guys, esp if they are short. This is true even in Europe.
2) White women there are tall and prefer taller men.

But they are socially open and I could make many friends. It's not true that I'd have no chance though. In Europe, there are always a few women who have an Asian guy/Asian culture fetish who would like me. European women prefer white guys, but they are more open to Asian guys than American white women are. That's for sure.

I haven't had time to go there yet. That's why I'm not there, you dumbass.

If you look in the Asia board, there is a thread called "Answers about Filipino culture". In it, a middle class educated Filipino explained why it's harder to get middle class Filipinas. He said that they don't talk to strangers and they do not usually like foreigners. It has nothing to do with my money. They prefer other middle class Pinoys of their own status and are also connected with their cliques. Even middle class Pinoy guys can't just meet them cold. They have to have some connections through mutual friends. Plus, again, they don't want to be seen with foreigners because they would be thought of as prostitutes. Even wealthy expats in the PI have trouble getting middle class Filipinas, for those reasons.

THOSE ARE THE REASONS STUPID. Do I have to repeat them? Read that thread and learn something, instead of making stupid idiotic statements. You don't know shit about the PI or the reasons.

Again stupid billy:

If you look in the Asia board, there is a thread called "Answers about Filipino culture". In it, a middle class educated Filipino explained why it's harder to get middle class Filipinas. He said that they don't talk to strangers and they do not usually like foreigners. It has nothing to do with my money. They prefer other middle class Pinoys of their own status and are also connected with their cliques. Even middle class Pinoy guys can't just meet them cold. They have to have some connections through mutual friends. Plus, again, they don't want to be seen with foreigners because they would be thought of as prostitutes. Even wealthy expats in the PI have trouble getting middle class Filipinas, for those reasons.

THOSE ARE THE REASONS STUPID. Do I have to repeat them? Read that thread and learn something, instead of making stupid idiotic statements. You don't know shit about the PI or the reasons.

Can you get that through your stupid neanderthal skull and memorize the above, so I don't have to repeat it?

You can get SOME girls with money. But they won't be girls that really love you. And plus, relationships based on money don't last long. Everyone knows that, except you billy, because your intelligence and wisdom is below average. You are more like an animal than a civilized human.

Also, how do you explain this billy? You didn't reply to it. It shows how utterly stupid you are.

Hey billy,
I got shocking news for your stupid shallow mind. Yesterday my friend in the Philippines told me that she broke it off with this well off Australian guy who wanted to bring her to Australia. Although she's interested in going abroad and visiting Australia, she told me, "I just can't force myself to love someone I don't, just to go to Australia. He gave me a lot of gifts and offered me an allowance, but I just can't bring myself to love him if I don't." So she canceled her plans to go with him there, since she doesn't want to lead him on.

BUSTED BILLY!

I hear stuff like that from girls all the time. How does your "it's all about money, women are all about money" philosophy explain that? It doesn't, so shut the hell up billy. You don't know shit about anything.

If you keep annoying the forum with stupid asinine points, I'm going to have to get rid of you.

[Winston]

Winston,

Thank you for the welcome.

I too worry that most Filipinas are not particularly intellectual. On the other hand, one of the girls I dated was an extremely talented artist, and I appreciated that about her. The other was, even in English, an excellent writer. However I always had a hard time having certain kinds of conversations with them. Also, contrary to billy's generalization, they were both extremely good looking - certainly much better looking than me.

On the other hand, I have dated girls that were *extremely* smart - two of them work at Google, another was a PhD. in Robotics, another a math teacher, etc, but what I found, over time, was that they were not developed as human beings. They were smart about math and science and the world, I could talk to them about anything, but they weren't emotionally developed and made poor relationship partners.

My Filipina ex always used to say "You can have everything you want, just not all at once". Maybe that's just how it is.

As for Russian girls.. I don't know. I am Russian, but I have some odd distaste towards Russian women. Something rubs me wrong about them. I'll figure it out at some point.

I also like Latinas a lot. They are energetic, lively, warm, self-possessed and hot as hell. I think I may have to check out Brazil.

Billy: Not all women are about money. If it was true, I'd still be a virgin.

HOWEVER: women become about money when they know about nothing better. Girls who have never felt love or desire settle for money because they've never experienced anything deeper.

As for NA women.. I don't know - I see plenty of things that are just unsatisfying, at least to me. I too used to feel that it's a downgrade, but at this point I just don't see it that way.

I think there is this sense people have that if you give up on something difficult that makes you miserable, you are a loser and a failure, that you must push ahead at any cost. But that kind of thinking is just dumb - there are certain battle that make no sense to fight, that make you no happier even if you win. It's like wrestling with a pig - no matter the outcome, you are covered with shit.

I see. Perhaps you don't like Russian women because they are kind of cold and harsh on the inside, even though they are very open socially? What do your parents think you should do?

What part of the US are you from? There's nothing wrong with being cheerful as long as it's not fake or pollyannish.

Why don't you start corresponding with Filipinas on DateinAsia.com or Blossoms.com and see if you connect with the lower class types?

Your last statement is correct. You cannot change other people or society. That is out of your power. All you can do is find people and cultures that are compatible with you and will like/appreciate you. That's all any of us can do.

"It takes far less effort to find and move to the society that has what you want than it does to try to reconstruct an existing society to match your standards." - Harry Browne, How I Found Freedom in an Unfree World

[Winston]

Before you give endless praises that Gandhi and the Dali Lama can do no wrong, I would suggest you watch this episode of Penn and Teller's Bullshit. Since you say you want to know the truth about things then this should provide the evidence that you claim doesn't exist about them being all about "peace":



BTW, You shouldn't be telling anyone, including Billy who can give advice and who can't. You are walking a thin-line with open-mindedness and petty dictatorship. What you should be doing is encouraging more postings and commentary and people can pick and choose what they want to read and follow up on. By minimizing certain posters because you don't like what they have to say doesn't really solve anything, your trying to expose why you were upset at them about whatever hurt your ego instead on just letting it go or commenting rationally without emotions getting involved. Whenever anybody posts anything on this forum they are opening themselves up to attack, praise or passivity. Just because you don't like Billy's posts or how he calls you on some shit doesn't mean that he doesn't have a valid point from HIS PERSPECTIVE. It doesn't mean he is necessarily correct either, but it produces commentary and discussion and not just a Winston Happier Abroad view of things.

Also he is not a native speaker and him posting using what English writing skills he possesses is actually quite admirable of him. I don't see any other posters who are not native or near-native speakers posting on this forum regularly. Most non-natives are too embarrassed to write in English on a majority English user website. If you don't like what he has to say ignore him and focus on other discussion posts. You don't need to personally defend every post that you think is directed against your character or Happier Abroad philosophy.

First, Penn and Teller are not credible sources. They are not serious investigators, researchers or intellectuals. They are magicians and entertainers. Their show contains ridicule, straw men and hyperboles without serious research. No serious researcher takes them seriously. They do not demonstrate any knowledge of what they are trying to ridicule. Their mission is basically "Everything outside the box is bullshit", same as James Randi and Michael Shermer. Their mission is not to find the truth, but to debunk anything outside of establishment views.

Just because there are a few charlatans doesn't mean that every spiritual leader is a charlatan. Just because you find some counterfeit money, doesn't make all money counterfeit.

If you claim that Gandhi or the Dalai Lama are not genuine men of peace, you have to provide some credible evidence from credible sources.

From what I've read about them and their biography, they seem like great men of peace. Gandhi preached nothing but nonviolence. How can that be bad? Watch this 3 hour movie about him. You will see what kind of a man he was.



You can be open minded about billy if you want. But the fact is, he does not have any wisdom, logic or common sense, and his posts contain more errors than facts. That is very bad and annoying. It's obvious too. The way he talks reminds me of men who were clueless about women and had no success with them cause they did not connect with them. Those are the worst kind of people to listen to. They are totally apathetic and lack the ability to connect with people. Men who only care about money and power and assume everyone does too, are not charming or likable at all. Their one dimensional view of the world makes them assholes. I've known guys like that before. They were losers. That's what they are like. Just stating the truth. Even highly successful people with a lot of money and power do not think like billy does and have a lot more wisdom than he does.

Billy's posts degrade the quality of this forum and provide bad content. And that's a bad thing.

[Mr S]

You're trying to defend Gandhi with a Hollywood movie? That's based on research? I only agree with Penn and Teller half the time but they did back up this episode with research and evidence provided. You didn't even watch it, your just making assumptions based on your previous held convictions about them. Gandhi was a perv and racist and there is buried proof about him that of course the mainstream won't touch cause he is a sacred cow. He actually contributed to the division of original India which killed millions of people and displaced millions more. I don't think there has been more peace separating the country into Pakistan/India/Bangladesh over all these years has there? It's probably made things worse not better.

Here's some written examples: http://alexknepper.com/2011/07/25/the-m ... as-gandhi/

The Monstrous Fraud of Mohandas Gandhi

July 25, 2011 by Alex Knepper



Especially among the multicultural left, Gandhi is one of the — ahem — untouchable figures of world culture. Like Mother Teresa and Martin Luther King, the popular media depiction of Gandhi is as a man who was imbibed with an almost transcendental sense of justice, mercy, and love. Who among us has not seen some sanctimonious person piously quote him: “I like your Christ. I do not like your Christians. They are so unlike your Christ,â€￾ or “An eye for an eye makes the whole world blind,â€￾ or “What do I think of Western civilization? I think it would be a nice ideaâ€￾? This excerpt from a Boston University syllabus, which I found randomly while scouring the Internet for Gandhi’s religious ideals, typifies how Westerners think of Gandhi (note that he’s uncritically referred to as “Mahatma,â€￾ an Indian word referring to a holy person):

Mahatma Gandhi was deeply interested in the comparative study of religions since the days of his youth. His interest in religious matters was due to the background of India, which was saturated with religious ideas and spirituality. Religion, to Gandhi, was not a matter of individual experience: Gandhi found God within creation. The meaning of the word ‘Dharma’ is ‘religion’ in India. This is a comprehensive term which embraces all of humanity. Gandhi referred to “Godâ€￾ as “Truth,â€￾ which has great significance.

And he loved kittens.

The problem with Gandhi is that, like most “spiritual leaders,â€￾ he has a plethora of irredeemable skeletons in his closet that render his image as, well — something of a total fraud.

1. He Denied His Dying Wife Penicillin for Religious Reasons, But Was More Than Happy to Take Quinine to Save Himself

This excerpt is lifted from the book 100 Things You’re Not Supposed to Know by Russ Kirk, which I own and have read in full:

In August 1942, Gandhi and his wife, Kasturba, among others, were imprisoned by the British in Aga Khan Palace, near Poona. Kasturba had poor circulation and she’d weathered several heart attacks. While detained in the palace, she developed bronchial pneumonia. One of her four sons, Devadas, wanted her to take penicillin. Gandhi refused. He was okay with her receiving traditional remedies, such as water from the Ganges, but he refused her any medicines, including this newfangled antibiotic, saying that the Almighty would have to heal her.

“The Life and Death of Mahatma Gandhiâ€￾ quotes him on February 19, 1944; “If God wills it, He will pull her through.â€￾ “Gandhi: A Lifeâ€￾ adds this wisdom from the Mahatma: “You cannot cure your mother now, no matter what wonder drugs you may muster. She is in God’s hands now.â€￾ Three days later, Devadas was still pushing for the penicillin, but Gandhi shot back: “Why don’t you trust God?â€￾ Kasturba died that day.

The next night, Gandhi cried out: “But how God tested my faith!â€￾ He told one of Kasturba’s doctors that the antibiotic wouldn’t have saved her and that allowing her to have it “would have meant the bankruptcy of my faith.â€￾ (Emphasis mine.)

But Gandhi’s faith wasn’t much of an obstacle a short time later when it was his ass on the line. A mere six weeks after Kasturba died, Gandhi was flattened by malaria. He stuck to an all-liquid diet as his doctors tried to convince him to take quinine. But Gandhi completely refused and died of the disease, right? No, actually, after three weeks of deterioration, he took the diabolical drug and quickly recovered. The stuff about trusting God’s will and testing faith only applied when his wife’s life hung in the balance.

This theme — the glorification of suffering — runs through Gandhi’s life and work, and expresses itself clearly in his views on Nazi Germany:

2. In the Face of Hitler, He Was Reverent, and He Literally Told the Jews to Suck It Up and Suffer

Gandhi penned a letter to Adolf Hitler in 1939 that reads as follows:

Dear friend,

Friends have been urging me to write to you for the sake of humanity. But I have resisted their request, because of the feeling that any letter from me would be an impertinence. Something tells me that I must not calculate and that I must make my appeal for whatever it may be worth.

It is quite clear that you are today the one person in the world who can prevent a war which may reduce humanity to a savage state. Must you pay that price for an object however worthy it may appear to you to be? Will you listen to the appeal of one who has deliberately shunned the method of war not without considerable success? Any way I anticipate your forgiveness, if I have erred in writing to you.

I remain,

Your sincere friend

M. K. Gandhi

On the face of it, there’s a lot here to horrify: two references to Hitler as a “friend,â€￾ an unequivocal show of reverence (“the feeling that any letter from me would be an impertinenceâ€￾), and an entreaty for forgiveness “if I have erred in writing to you.â€￾ One need hardly recite Hitler’s unparalleled atrocities and monstrous ideology (which was abundantly clear by the time of this letter, even to the most comatose observer) for this letter to raise an eyebrow.

There’s only one way out of this quandary, which is to say that Gandhi was, in fact, not reverent toward Hitler, but rather a naive, blundering fool who actually thought that a two-paragraph letter full of kind language exhorting him to pacifism would be enough to make him change his mind. One imagines Hitler rushing into the war room: “Guys! We have the letter! We have to call it all off!â€￾

In case you still think I’m exaggerating for the sake of making a point, ask yourself: would Gandhi have made a quality British Prime Minister in 1939? The question answers itself.

But Gandhi was just getting warmed up. A piece he wrote about Jews in Nazi Germany explains that his views on “civil disobedienceâ€￾ were for real, and that the Jews, despite his “sympathyâ€￾ for them, really just ought to suck it up:

If I were a Jew and were born in Germany and earned my livelihood there, I would claim Germany as my home even as the tallest Gentile German might, and challenge him to shoot me or cast me in the dungeon; I would refuse to be expelled or to submit to discriminating treatment. And for doing this I should not wait for the fellow Jews to join me in civil resistance, but would have confidence that in the end the rest were bound to follow my example. If one Jew or all the Jews were to accept the prescription here offered, he or they cannot be worse off than now. And suffering voluntarily undergone will bring them an inner strength and joy…the calculated violence of Hitler may even result in a general massacre of the Jews by way of his first answer to the declaration of such hostilities. But if the Jewish mind could be prepared for voluntary suffering, even the massacre I have imagined could be turned into a day of thanksgiving and joy that Jehovah had wrought deliverance of the race even at the hands of the tyrant. For to the God-fearing, death has no terror.

The morality of this is so breathtakingly out-of-touch with reality as to defy belief. What commentary can I possibly provide? Gandhi actually anticipated the Holocaust in this letter. But even with that knowledge — as with the case of his dying wife — Gandhi glorified suffering and pacifism above all — even if it meant the mass extermination of an entire race. Like so many infused with the radical spirit, he was prepared to sacrifice millions to his abstract principles and spiritual dogma.

This segues nicely into…

3. He Deceived Westerners Into Thinking That Non-Violent Resistance Works

Gandhi was able to get away with non-violent resistance because of the relatively civilized nature of India’s occupiers. The British were not in India to rape, pillage, and exercise wanton destruction. They introduced India to liberal democracy, modern commerce, and advanced infrastructure. They ended practices such as the burning of widows. The country, in fact, is only seen as a potential competitor to China today because of British colonialism. Gandhi’s main beef was actually with an abstraction called “self-determination,â€￾ which, by the mid-1900s, became something of a religious principle for most Westerners.

In the face of truly oppressive occupiers — Gandhi’s friend Hitler, for instance — “non-violent resistersâ€￾ will find themselves crushed in a day’s span. “Civil disobedienceâ€￾ against “oppressorsâ€￾ is the luxury of those who don’t actually live under tyrannical conditions. Decades of propaganda have equated the British Empire with something only slightly better than Nazi Germany itself. In fact, Gandhi was only able to get away with what he did because the British were anything but Nazis.

It is for this reason that we cannot simply gloss over Gandhi’s views on Hitler and the Holocaust, in the same way that we can, for example, look over Thomas Jefferson’s slave-ownership: the latter was a hypocrite whose principles were sound; the former was a fool who accomplished what he did only by accident. The equivalent of Gandhi under Nazi Germany was crushed and killed in the first week of his protests. The heroic image of Gandhi in the West was only made possible by the civilized nature of the British. To hold up Gandhi’s pacifism as a universal prescription for justice is a delusional farce, and will only lead oppressed people to greater death and suffering.

4. His Views On Sex Were Primitive and Psychologically Deranged

Wikipedia’s article on the good Mahatma summarizes some of his deranged practices:

Within a year of his chastity vow, Gandhi’s newspaper, the Indian Opinion, wrote “It is the duty of every thoughtful Indian not to marry. In case he is helpless in regard to marriage, he should abstain from sexual intercourse with his wifeâ€￾. Gandhi also conducted sexual experiments in his ashrams. In these ashrams, boys and girls bathed together, slept in the same beds, but were punished for any sexual talk. Men and women were segregated. Gandhi also advised that husbands should not be alone with their wives, and, when they felt sexual desire, should take a cold bath.

In case any culturally-relativist sentiments might be plaguing your mind, replace “Gandhiâ€￾ with “Michele Bachmannâ€￾ and then see how you feel about this.

We could chalk this up to Gandhi being a product of his times if his lifestyle were not held up as timeless, spiritually superior, and a light to the world — and if anti-sex, anti-masturbation views weren’t still held as legitimate by billions of people, including what is likely a majority of Americans. Every awful view held by a figure as revered as Gandhi only lends them additional credence.

5. He Was an Enormous Racist

Last but not least (well, maybe it really is ‘least’ in such an awful bill of indictment), the good Mahatma expressed nothing but contempt for Africans, having thought them subspecies relative to the superior Indian race, as expressed in this excerpt from a piece on South Africa (which was inhabited with — Gandhi’s words — “niggersâ€￾):

The cell was situated in the Native quarters and we were housed in one that was labelled “For Colured Debtorsâ€￾. It was this experience for which we were perhaps all unprepared. We had fondly imagined that we would have suitable quarters apart from the Natives. As it was, perhaps, it was well that we were classed with the Natives…Degradation underlay the classing of Indians with Natives. The Asiatic Act seemed to me to be the summit of our degradation. It did appear to me, as I think it would appear to any unprejudiced reader, that it would have been simple humanity if we were given special quarters. The fault did not lie with the gaol authorities. It was the fault of the law that has made no provision for the special treatment of Asiatic prisoners…Many of the Native prisoners are only one degree removed from the animal…

G.B. Singh summarizes his findings on Gandhi’s relationship to the black natives of South Africa:

One cannot help but discern that there is not a single Black person anywhere in any of the photos of Gandhi during that time. With Black people in the great majority, there is no way that Gandhi had missed noticing them.

Why is this? The answer is very simple: Gandhi hated Black people. Only a few scholars are aware of this background. For all practical purposes, the burden of unraveling this mystery fell upon my shoulders. Here are some of the highlights:

In 1906 Gandhi had participated in a war against Blacks. The Gandhian literature either keeps quiet on the subject or tries to paint him as a great humanitarian who actually helped Blacks by rendering to them urgent medical care. Had he not done so, we are told, many Blacks would have died. While researching the historical documents, however, I found that Gandhi’s participation had nothing to do with “humanitarian concernsâ€￾ for Black people. He was more concerned with “allying relationshipsâ€￾ with the colonial Whites living in Natal colony. Driven by his racial outlook, he went out of his way to enlist Indians to join the army under him to fight for his cause against the Blacks. He also considered Indians living in South Africa to be “fellow colonistsâ€￾ along with the White colonists, over the indigenous Blacks.

Which is probably part of why Gandhi, despite his deep cultural connection with him, never once met Martin Luther King, Jr.

———–

The focal problem with Gandhi is ultimately very similar to that of Mother Teresa: a spiritual glorification of suffering, a delusional view of human psychology, and a hypocritical lifestyle that forces others to live out their ideals while themselves indulging in modern luxuries.

Gandhi himself was just a human being — a deeply flawed one, like most of us. But there is an awful myth surrounding him; a piously fraudulent lie. His prescriptions in support of pacifism and suffering are so out-of-touch with reality as to defy belief. The real Gandhi should be treated with the same contempt that any other delusional pacifist receives — because that’s, in the final analysis, what he really was.

More myths exposed: http://www.markshep.com/peace/Myths.html

Oh whats this? An article in the Guardian about his sexual perversions: http://www.guardian.co.uk/commentisfree ... omen-india

[odbo]

Gandhi was a British agent and got a lot of people (sheeple) to believe that a group can accomplish political change by being weak and defenseless. Just like the Civil Rights movement got plenty of sheeple to believe that they can accomplish something through marching. Guess what? You can't. The British Empire still rules and the Queen still owns India. The best slave is the slave who thinks he is free. Like patriotic Americans who celebrate the 4th of July. Guess what guys, we lost the war. But we won "in-dependence". Hooray for us!

[Winston]

billy,
Why don't you go bother the folks on the Rooshv forum? Since you read the posts there so much, why don't you bother them instead of us? Why don't you post there?

Lavezzi just PMed me and asked why I haven't gotten rid of you yet. Even well-informed was annoyed by your banter. You are annoying. Others here are annoyed too.

[Winston]

Gandhi was a British agent and got a lot of people (sheeple) to believe that a group can accomplish political change by being weak and defenseless. Just like the Civil Rights movement got plenty of sheeple to believe that they can accomplish something through marching. Guess what? You can't. The British Empire still rules and the Queen still owns India. The best slave is the slave who thinks he is free. Like patriotic Americans who celebrate the 4th of July. Guess what guys, we lost the war. But we won "in-dependence". Hooray for us!

Do you have any credible evidence of this from credible sources? Those around Gandhi sensed his pureness and spirituality. No agent can fake such vibes.

If you didn't know me, you'd say that I was some kind of secret Illuminati agent too. lol. You take conspiracies too far.