Personal Attacks

[Grunt]

The average feminist does not even know it is a feminist. Just like the average nazi didnt think he was doing anything wrong.

Let me tell you why you are a feminist. All that "haveing sex with a foreign girl means you have to pay for her rent and college" hogwash.

Thats not just feminist, thats uber ultra feminist.

[Jackal]

(shhhhh, Kristy. Don't call him "Grunty-poo" when he's mad.)

Grunt,

I don't think Kristy ever said that "having sex with a foreign girl means you have to pay for her rent and college". If you go back and look at the thread, I think you will see that it was Ladislav who originally proposed the idea that expats might want to pay for the education of their foreign girlfriends. Kristy was just thinking through the possibilities for foreign girls. She was just casually thinking out loud, so I wouldn't take it as her personal manifesto that she spent hours writing or anything.

http://www.happierabroad.com/phpBB2/vie ... sc&start=0

I think all of us here share your dislike of mainstream American women. I think if you give Kristy and Kristine a chance, however, you will find that they aren't remotely feminist.

First of all, they are not 100% American women; they are both part Ukrainian. And secondly, they have both traveled widely, which I think gives anybody a more enlightened perspective on life. Lastly, they both seem to be dedicated to taking care of their families, which isn't a very feminist trait.

[kristy_571]

The average feminist does not even know it is a feminist. Just like the average nazi didnt think he was doing anything wrong.

Let me tell you why you are a feminist. All that "haveing sex with a foreign girl means you have to pay for her rent and college" hogwash.

Thats not just feminist, thats uber ultra feminist.

Not feminist. Just materialistic. Give some, get some. We all gotta survive. If a man wants sex and will pay the girl for it, then why not try to get the best deal you can? That is just my opinion. And those girls that have sugar daddies, they are poor. I just would't want some young girl in another country to have to suffer and keep going from man to man. In fact, I would prefer she either a) marry the nice guy that is supporting her, or b) become self-sufficient and educated enough so she won't have to keep whoring herself out to many different men.

[Grunt]

Thank you for proving my point, kristy.

Let me place this in a context even a feminist can grasp, even a feminist that does not know it is a feminist.

Now, what I want everyone to do is, clear your mind. Then, take the above comments and transpose the sex, and the medium. In other words, swap man for woman and then post them at any number of feminist internet forums.

It would go something like this:

(Random post by strawberry or kristy at http://www.mensuck.com/)

"A woman must respect a man, a woman must care for a man, a woman needs to put the man first and ensure his happiness at all times."

Sounds pretty silly, huh? Do any here think either of these females would go to said feminist forums and post such comments? If so, how long would it be before they were verbally abused then banned? Or, why do they come here to give us..."guidance"?

Do you know what that paradigm is? Its hypocrisy. It is a cult-like mentality of selective indignation. It is a bloated self worth combined with monumental ignorance. In short, it is feminism. And the best part is, they don't even think they are feminists.

When I see any local females, or jackal, registering over at some feminist forums and trying to "enlighten" the denizens there, I will reconsider.

Who was it that said none are so hopelessly enslaved then those that think they are free?

[gmm567]

You have some very interesting insights grunt. I am not sure I am totally following you, and I'd love to see you develope these ideas further. I am not sure I know the right questions to ask you to make that happen.



Kristy --that's fine that you want women to get the " the best deal they can? "when selling sex. So long as you know....that since it's for sale--we too want the very best deal we can get. Do you know how many women have a p***y and a mouth--billions of you. The price plummets honey.There are no great margins to be had--like a free house or alimony or child support. Suck it up.

American women do not want nice american men (there are exceptions). And maybe in the Phillipines, where the p***y is easily bought at commoditized prices ( no great margins), those women will choose and appreciate decent men. They sure don't here.

Decent guys in the philipines can walk away, and tell you to shove it, because p***y has no bargaining power. It's cheap and easy.

In the US the only guys who can do that are very high status, rich and the thugs and criminals called bad boys. The rest of the US guys have no bargaining power.
.

[Jackal]

"A woman must respect a man, a woman must care for a man, a woman needs to put the man first and ensure his happiness at all times."

I enjoyed your thought experiment, Grunt. Not having to stress about getting women is any man's dream. Your write good rhetoric to counter the extreme feminists. I could understand the feminist movement before the 70s. Women were bored of being stuck at home with kids and wanted more options. Now they've got tons of options and shouldn't complain.

[Jackal]

Not feminist. Just materialistic. Give some, get some. We all gotta survive. If a man wants sex and will pay the girl for it, then why not try to get the best deal you can? That is just my opinion. And those girls that have sugar daddies, they are poor. I just would't want some young girl in another country to have to suffer and keep going from man to man. In fact, I would prefer she either a) marry the nice guy that is supporting her, or b) become self-sufficient and educated enough so she won't have to keep whoring herself out to many different men.

Ugh. Your thoughts are logical, but you're not helping yourself with these guys. The tone rubs men the wrong way. Everybody wants to feel special. Everybody wants a good deal.

[kristy_571]

"A woman must respect a man, a woman must care for a man, a woman needs to put the man first and ensure his happiness at all times."

I enjoyed your thought experiment, Grunt. Not having to stress about getting women is any man's dream. Your write good rhetoric to counter the extreme feminists. I could understand the feminist movement before the 70s. Women were bored of being stuck at home with kids and wanted more options. Now they've got tons of options and shouldn't complain.

No one deserves to be stressed out is the right of anyone.

And Jackal, I really like you alot. I think you are a great person. But what options do women really have? Sure... I can go to medical school and become a doctor, and then maybe a) get a man that admires my high status and good pay, but also feels intimidated that I may make more money than him or b) get a man that is okay with my line of work, but complains that I do not have enough time for the family. Anyhow... my whole point before I continue rambling incessently is that the women's liberation movement opened some positive doors for women-we can become educated without stigma, and have good jobs, but there are also new pressures as well. American women are expected to have big degrees, make big money, have high-stress positions, work long hours, and then come home, cook/clean/take care of the babies. So basically, we are expected to do the "same things that a man does", yet we are also still expected to be the traditional wife as well. It isn't easy. A woman works long hours at her stressful job, and then comes home to work some more. I fully think that taking care of the home is a woman's responsibility, but that damn feminist movement just added more pressures and hardships. Women have twice the load now. Wow. Isn't that liberating.

[kristy_571]

Okay gentlmen. I hate to get religion involved. But I am going to. Here is what I, as a Muslima, belive:

Source: http://www.jannah.org/sisters/marr.html

The husband/wife relationship.

^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^

-The wifes rights - the Husbands obligations.

(1) Maintenance

The husband is responsible for the wifes maintenance. This right is established by authority of the Qur'an and the sunnah. It is inconsequen tial whether the wife is a Muslim , non-Muslim, rich, poor, healthy or sick. A component of his role as "qawam" (leader) is to bear the financial responsibility of the family in a generous way so that his wife may be assured security and thus perform her role devotedly.

The wifes maintenance entails her right to lodging, clothing, food and general care, like medication, hospital bills etc. He must lodge her where he resides himself according to his means. The wifes lodge must be adequate so as to ensure her privacy, comfort and independence.

If a wife has been used to a maid or is unable to attend to her household duties, it is the husbands duty to provide her with a maid if he can afford to do so. The prophet is reported to have said: The best Muslim is one who is the best husband.

(2) "Mahr "

The wife is entitled to a marriage gift that is her own. This may be prompt or deferred depending on the agreement between the parties. A marriage is not valid without mahr. It does not have to be money or gold. It can be non-material like teaching her to read the Qur'an. " Mahr" is a gift from the groom to the bride. This is the Islamic law, unlike some cultures whereby the brides parents pay the future husband to marry the daughter. This practice degrades women and is contrary to the spirit of Islam. There is no specification in the Qur'an as to what or how much the Mahr has to be. It depends on the parties involved.

(3) Non-material rights.

A husband is commanded by the law of Allah to treat his wife with equity, respect her feelings and show kindness and consideration, especially if he has another wife. The prophet last sermon stresses kindness to women.


The wife obligations - the Husbands rights.

^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^

One of the main duties of the wife is to contribute to the success and blissfulness of the marriage. She must be attentive to the comfort and wellbeing of her husband. The Qur'anic ayah which illustrates this point is:

"Our lord, grant us wives and offspring who will be the apples of our eyes and guide us to be models for the righteous"

The wife must be faithful, trustworthy and honest she must not deceive her husband by deliberately avoiding contraception. She must not allow any other person to have access to that which is exclusively the husband right i.e. sexual intimacy. She must not receive or entertain strange males in the house without his knowledge and consent. She should not be alone with a strange male. She should not accept gifts from other men without his approval. This is meant to avoid jealousy, suspicion and gossip. The husband possessions are her trust. She may not dispose of his belongings without his permission.

A wife should make herself sexually attractive to her husband and be responsive to his advances. The wife must not refuse her husband sexually as this can lead to marital problems and worse still - tempt the man to adultery. The husband of course should take into account the wifes health and general consideration should be given.

Obedience.

^^^^^^^^^

The purpose of obedience in the relationship is to keep the family unit running as smoothly as possible. The man has been given the right to be obeyed because he is the leader and not because he is superior. If a leader is not obeyed , his leadership will become invalid -Imagine a king or a teacher or a parent without the necessary authority which has been entrusted to them.

Obedience does not mean blind obedience. It is subject to conditions:

(a) It is required only if what is asked from the wife is within the permissible categories of action.

(b) It must be maintained only with regard to matters that fall under the husband rights.

Case Closed. No more calling me a feminist.

[Jackal]

And many American men who work hard and are kind to women have to deal with the frustration of most American women not taking them seriously romantically.

I think modern American culture frustrates sensitive people of both genders.

(By the way "Muslima" sounds much cuter than plain "Muslim". Maybe the years of Spanish classes I took make me feel that way.)

[Grunt]

That's all very nice, now go post it on http://www.allgirlarmy.org/tags/man_hating because you are all about enlightening people, right?

Keep us informed of your progress, or lack thereof. Chances are your posts will be deleted though, because that's how tyranny works.

[Jackal]

Grunt, I think you just read too much into the words I use.

In a previous post I just meant that traveling to foreign countries makes a person more enlightened than they were before. This includes you, me, Winston, Kristy, Kristine, and anybody else who has traveled abroad. Travel gives everybody new insights and makes them less a slave to the culture they were born into because it shows them new ways of doing things.

[Enishi]

That was interesting Kristy, thanks for posting that.

[Grunt]

Again, we must assume the reason these females come is to "enlighten" us flawed men. To shower their wisdom upon the great unwashed. To look down their noses sneeringly in a judgmental fashion...for our benefit, of course.

Yet, were these females truly interested in righting the wrongs, or guiding the lost, they would be on every feminist forum doing exactly what they do here. Because if there is any group in need of correction, its feminists.

I am still waiting for some links from our esteemed female members to this end.

I wont hold my breath.

[momopi]

Perhaps they're here, because they're unhappy in America and believe they can find greener pastures elsewhere?

I've known several girls, including one of my ex-GF's, who immigrated to Japan and found a much better life for themselves. Despite having been born and raised in the US, some simply don't feel that they belong here culturally, or they got a better deal living elsewhere.

Here, they were just college grads with no work experience, trying to compete in a job market where they had little advantage. Over in Japan, their English language skills are in demand, plus they get hit on by Japanese guys all the time & have great social life. Good times.