Meeting Women in China

[Winston]

I have a dilemma.
It seems that Chinese women want marriage so badly in fact, that they prefer to skip the boyfriend/girlfriend part. This is true of the ones I'm corresponding with. They all say that they are not into "fun and games" but only into serious commitments.
So this makes it difficult to visit multiple women in China. How can you visit more than one woman, if each one expects you to make a commitment and not just "take off" without her? I mean, even if she allows it, she will not take you seriously after that.
Should a guy lie and tell them that he wants marriage? Or should he tell the truth and lose them all? All Chinese women will say "I don't want fun and games. If you want fun and games, then I'm not for you." I'm not opposed to marriage, but I don't want to make an early commitment that I will regret later either.
What can you do about that? In Russia, this problem was easy to deal with, because the women there were flaky and just "went along for the ride" and didn't take me seriously as a partner anyway. But Chinese women seem much more commitment oriented. They don't meet you just for fun or to go along for the ride.
Brett, Rock, Momopi, how did you deal with this dilemma?

1. If you're not looking to get married and settle down to raise a family, stop wasting the girl's time.

2. I don't recall reading anything from you recently that suggests you're "not opposed to marriage". Maybe my memory is fuzzy, so feel free to correct me.

3. A great number of Taiwanese men are currently residing in China and banging their local GF's without getting married. Go ask them where they meet their GF's.

I said that there are many logical reasons why marriage doesn't make sense and is a bad idea. But I'm open to the fact that if I meet a true soulmate, I might change my mind and get married. So I am not 100 percent against it. I just don't think the concept of it makes any sense for many reasons I listed. That's my take on it. Nothing is set in stone for me. I keep an open mind and realize that things are subject to change. As the saying goes, "Never say never".

[Winston]

I have a dilemma.

It seems that Chinese women want marriage so badly in fact, that they prefer to skip the boyfriend/girlfriend part. This is true of the ones I'm corresponding with. They all say that they are not into "fun and games" but only into serious commitments.

So this makes it difficult to visit multiple women in China. How can you visit more than one woman, if each one expects you to make a commitment and not just "take off" without her? I mean, even if she allows it, she will not take you seriously after that.

Should a guy lie and tell them that he wants marriage? Or should he tell the truth and lose them all? All Chinese women will say "I don't want fun and games. If you want fun and games, then I'm not for you." I'm not opposed to marriage, but I don't want to make an early commitment that I will regret later either.

What can you do about that? In Russia, this problem was easy to deal with, because the women there were flaky and just "went along for the ride" and didn't take me seriously as a partner anyway. But Chinese women seem much more commitment oriented. They don't meet you just for fun or to go along for the ride.

Brett, Rock, Momopi, how did you deal with this dilemma?

Here's the advice of my retired mental health counselor friend to my dilemma above. What do you think?

"Why is that? Do Chinese women commonly think like that - that you don't need love first before marriage, and that love is something that grows later after the marriage? That's strange."

--This concept is held to be true in many cultures. I don't find it all that strange. Most of these Chinese women are romantic only in an abstract way. They are going to get the best "deal" they can and the rest will follow. Think of it like buying a luxury car. At first you may buy it simply because you like its looks or what it can do for you, but as you drive it over time you realize that it is really a superior machine and drives much better than the Toyota Tercel you drove before. Trips become more pleasant, the leather of the seats envelope you.---To many of these Chinese women, a guy like you represents that luxury car. You already are a step up just by being Asian and also an American citizen.----While I agree with one of your posters that whether the girl will want to come to America or not depends on the girl, I would argue that most do--if for no other reason than to make money here so they can later return to China and live a wealthy life there. To them, you represent that shiny luxury car that they will grow to love and appreciate the longer they own it.

--The one very positive thing I have noticed about these women is that they tend to stick by their men. Some have very negative reputations as controlling bitches, but they are probably a LOT less likely to f**k around or dump you for another man who is richer or better-looking.

--I've found most of these Chinese women are on the personal's sites SOLELY for the purpose of marriage and once they've locked onto you and you are in correspondence with them, they are assuming you are of the same mind set. This is just going to be reinforced if you take the time and trouble to visit them, meet their families and court them. Of COURSE you WANT marriage, but just as in choosing a luxury car, you are not going to buy just ANY model. You are going to want to take many test drives, crunch numbers, do research.

--I think to navigate these tricky waters you are going to have be very stealthy and "tricky" a la Ladislav. I suggest the following.

1. Visit only larger cities in China and choose women from the personal's sites who reside in larger metro areas--none in small cities or hick towns at all, even if you feel madly in love. I would also restrict the number of women in any large city to one or two.

2. Make sure the large city has an active p4p scene. This will require some hard research because from accounts I have read the P4P action in Chinese cities varies tremendously from city to city. This way you can have the best of both worlds and after you have taken your date home and gotten maybe a semi-affectionate hug you can go trolling for a woman who will actually provide some p***y for you, at a price. This option will give you time to get to know the woman you are courting and still meet your sexual needs. It will require Internet legwork and research to pull this off, but it will be worth it to put in the effort. This side-f***ing will assist you greatly because it will give you a much clearer head during your actual "romantic" encounters with the ladies you are squiring. Courting a woman while in a state of perpetual horniness does not make for a clear head. Much better to GET some head before you meet her and her family. Your other alternative is to visit a P4P city and f**k ten or so hotties BEFORE meeting the girl, so that you have sex out of your system to some extent and can let come what may with the girl you are meeting.

3. Present an image of yourself as someone coming to China other than just to meet a woman--you have business to conduct, obligations to visit friends in other cities, etc. I think in China this will be a LOT easier to pull off than in places like Thailand and Phils. I have had women in Thailand quit work just so they could travel with me. I have been told by Phil. women that they will take long leaves of absences just to travel the country with me. I don't think the Chinese have this luxury so I doubt the girl is going to be able to just up and "move on" with you as you venture about China. This will give you the advantage of being able to move on gracefully without the girl losing face and will increase your desirability since you will be seen as a "mover and shaker." If the girl knows she only has a limited time with you, this also might increase your chances of f***ing her. Of course, if you are getting laid nightly by professional girls then whether you f**k the woman might not be so important as it would be if she is your only perceived option.

4. Vet these girls just as much as they vet you. Ask many questions of them and the parents, should you meet them. Make it clear you are serious but like any good businessmen you are not jumping at the first deal offered to you, but weighing your options. Become as crafty as a Metternich in your dealings with these ladies, but, like Metternich and other great diplomats, hide your craft well. You are an American--and your culture has certain standards and expectations. As your poster Two brains said, one of those expectations is that sex will occur before marriage, that this is a common thing and is expected. You would NEVER think seriously of getting involved with a woman who wouldn't consider sex before marriage. I wouldn't throw these out as a threat but more of an explanation of your culture--so as two brains says the woman can take or leave you, and I would ONLY do this after you have wooed the woman and for some reason have not f***ed her, and I suspect there will be MANY that you will not f**k or who will not give up the p***y very easily. Maybe I am wrong and will be very pleasantly surprised when you return with tales of success. I hope so! I do suspect that many of these girls can be f***ed if they are gamed correctly and if you can convey the impression that you are interested but not certain.

--Moral Issues: Up to you to decide about such things but I suggest you go with the framework of having fun and, to the extent possible, being the ONE IN CONTROL. Do not give up your power to these women. Here is where your lying may need to come to the fore--i.e., present yourself as you WANT to be perceived, the more successful and goal-oriented the better. Bear in mind that the goal of almost ALL of these women, particularly the very intelligent woman you supposedly seek in your Quixotic quest, he-he,--has the very goal of eventually controlling your life, vastly restricting the freedoms you routinely write about and encumbering you with even more burdens (children) that you do not want. Of course, she is not going to either think of it in this way or couch it in this way. She will be crafty and subtle and probably has a higher IQ than you. If you take my advice and are doing the P4P on the side then you can consider your meetings with the ladies as playing chess against someone better than you, where you still have a chance of winning, but warming up for the match by beating ten novices just for the bloody hell of it.

Other thoughts: I believe I wrote you already about my encounter last month with the Chinese pedicurist and how we had a very stimulating intellectual conversation of the sort I have not had with a woman in a long f***ing time. It was delightful! This woman was by no means what anyone would term an "attractive" Asian woman--maybe a five at best and I would give her a 5 based on her very thin and lithe body. Still, I was enchanted, as I also have a weakness for intellectual women (of a certain sort). When I say "of a certain sort" I mean those whose intellectuality seems to flow naturally and where we can talk about many things without either of us putting on airs or affectation and trying hard to impress one another. ---I notice in your many observations re: Pinays, which I assume are highly perceptive and based on experience and observation, one of the many things you criticize them for is their lack of planning for the future and a tendency to actually work against themselves for sake of some fatuous, short-term pleasure. This is by way of saying: DO NOT BECOME OVERLY ENCHANTED BY INTELLECTUAL BANTER. Be aware of your weakness in this regard; because many of these Chinese ladies are super smart and full of knowledge and insights and poignancy. You pride yourself on your logic--USE IT. Use it and realize that behind this banter is a creature having a very clear agenda of what she wants from you and using every means in her power to obtain it. Enjoy the banter, f**k her if you can but as much as is possible, try to take on this quest with an idea of what you really want and learn from your past mistakes. You are a very free-spirited individual who does not wish to be encumbered or burdened with the normal hassles of life--a wish I share and admire in you--but you are about to enter a playing field where you are meeting with women whose predominant goals will involve curtailing your freedom. USE your logic, and as a great chess master would do, always think many moves ahead.

I HAVE SPOKEN,

Comments: That's interesting, but I don't like to approach dating as a "game" like chess. I prefer to treat women like a true caring friend, the same way I'd treat a close male friend (but with romantic connotations of course). I find that they appreciate that better than if you treat it like some game. I also don't think their IQ is higher than mine, as he suggests. lol Actually, these Chinese women, when I show them some of my essays, are amazed and think I'm some super genius who can think on a level that they can never reach. That's their reaction. lol

[The_Adventurer]

You can have sex with a Chinese girl on the very day you meet her. You can be assured, however, that she has, for whatever reasons, decided that you are the one and fully expects marriage. Exceptions may apply for some very modern big city girls, but they are few and far between.

If you really just want to have fun, I suggest paying money. This doesn't have to be with a well worn hooker or massage girl. You can find normal girls, especially students who would be willing to try something for the right incentives. I've heard some stories of students, even those that were virgins, that would shock you. That is the young crowd, though. If you're chatting with women in late twenties or early thirties, please don't waste their time. They have probably already been burned once, or worse, twice, by people they gave all their heart to and it likely nearly destroyed them. I've already had to talk a couple of them through this and I can't tell you, they don't just chalk it up to experience and move on like western girls.

[Rock]

I have a dilemma.

It seems that Chinese women want marriage so badly in fact, that they prefer to skip the boyfriend/girlfriend part. This is true of the ones I'm corresponding with. They all say that they are not into "fun and games" but only into serious commitments.

So this makes it difficult to visit multiple women in China. How can you visit more than one woman, if each one expects you to make a commitment and not just "take off" without her? I mean, even if she allows it, she will not take you seriously after that.

Should a guy lie and tell them that he wants marriage? Or should he tell the truth and lose them all? All Chinese women will say "I don't want fun and games. If you want fun and games, then I'm not for you." I'm not opposed to marriage, but I don't want to make an early commitment that I will regret later either.

What can you do about that? In Russia, this problem was easy to deal with, because the women there were flaky and just "went along for the ride" and didn't take me seriously as a partner anyway. But Chinese women seem much more commitment oriented. They don't meet you just for fun or to go along for the ride.

Brett, Rock, Momopi, how did you deal with this dilemma?

I think the women on the dating sites you have been using are predominantly marriage minded types. When you go to China, you will see many others who are not. Hang out at places near college campuses where uni girls hang out or go to have fun. If you can make friends with some of these, you will see they tend to be a lot more casual. That’s not to say they don’t wanna get married in the future. But many of them wanna enjoy some freedom for a few short years while they are young. Hey, don’t be surprised if you fall for one of them and try to get serious with her while she just wants to keep things casual.

At the other end of the opportunity spectrum are more mature women – those in their 30s and above. Since they’ve passed that critical 28-29 age benchmark for finding the best partner, many have likely lost hope and are willing to settle for some companionship or close friendship.

Winston, some of the girls you meet may just be naturally attracted to you. In those cases, the girl may be willing to engage in some sort of no-strings attached relationship. You really just should go there and see for yourself.

So when are you thinking of heading over?

[Winston]

Check out what I just wrote a Chinese woman I'm talking to. Do you think it will make her reconsider what she wants in life or her eagerness to get married? lol

Hi dear,
Yes I know. But why do you want to hurry up and marry? What for? Just because of tradition? I don't understand Chinese people. Why do they only care about tradition? Don't you have any dreams or ambition in life? What do you love to do? Only raise a family and build a "nest"? Anyone can do that. Don't you have any other great dreams and ambitions in life? Once you have a family, you will have a lot of responsibility and burden. Why would that make you happy? I don't understand the Chinese heart. Don't you want something more in life? Aren't you passionate about anything? Even animals want to reproduce and have children. If that's all we care about too, then how are we any different than the animals? Do you see what I mean?

Is life only about working, coming home, cooking and eating dinner, going to sleep, and then waking up the next morning to go to work again? Is that all you want in life? Do you have any passions or dreams?

The goal in life is to discover yourself, find out who you are, spiritually and personality-wise, not just to follow the same traditions people have followed for thousands of years. Even animals can follow traditions. Humans are supposed to rise above that and find a greater purpose in life and become in tune with their spirit/soul.

Do you ever think about this?

[Winston]

You can have sex with a Chinese girl on the very day you meet her. You can be assured, however, that she has, for whatever reasons, decided that you are the one and fully expects marriage. Exceptions may apply for some very modern big city girls, but they are few and far between.

If you really just want to have fun, I suggest paying money. This doesn't have to be with a well worn hooker or massage girl. You can find normal girls, especially students who would be willing to try something for the right incentives. I've heard some stories of students, even those that were virgins, that would shock you. That is the young crowd, though. If you're chatting with women in late twenties or early thirties, please don't waste their time. They have probably already been burned once, or worse, twice, by people they gave all their heart to and it likely nearly destroyed them. I've already had to talk a couple of them through this and I can't tell you, they don't just chalk it up to experience and move on like western girls.

If they see sex as a binding rite for marriage, then wouldn't that mean that you would have to deceive them in order to get sex? That sucks. Maybe it's better to just stick to P4P or casual sex. How do you find that in China?

Why would a Chinese girl decide to marry you the first day she meets you though? They are supposed to be wise and practical. Why would they make such a decision that fast?

I get the sense though, that these marriage-minded Chinese girls don't want to just "hang out" and meet people for fun. They are all or nothing. They aren't interested in friends, dating or romance, unless it will lead to marriage. Is that true?

[xiongmao]

The_Adventurer is right. Chinese women DO make up their minds about you real quick! If she starts touching you, feeding you or takes you round to meet her parents then you can assume she's already planning your wedding .

They also invest a lot of their emotions in a relationship, and they can get really hurt if you end the relationship. It's tough but if a relationship isn't going to work then you just can't marry a girl because you feel sorry for her.

I think my current girl is going to be hurt beyond belief if I can't commit. I know her previous bf caused her a lot of emotional pain (he was a bad boy, and her parents didn't like him!).

But since my first Chinese gf ripped my heart out, my subconcious is telling me to take things much more slowly in my own relationships.

I don't know why Chinese women hurt themselves so much by failing to realise that men have a real problem committing (and I'm assuming Chinese men have the same problems deciding if she is The One).

And to any guys who are contemplating finding an Asian wife, it's a good idea to do some playing (but just be careful). You wouldn't buy a car without doing a test drive, so why should a woman be any different?

[The_Adventurer]

If they see sex as a binding rite for marriage, then wouldn't that mean that you would have to deceive them in order to get sex? That sucks. Maybe it's better to just stick to P4P or casual sex. How do you find that in China?

Big cities and young girls (they are called Post 90's girls) or small cities and poor students. Of course, the big cities and young girls will want a very attractive and/or rich younger guy. The poor students will just want some "financial aid". The downside, though, is the poor student will very likely still fall very much in love (especially if you're her first) and hope for the relationship to progress beyond mere financial aid. There are even stories of the girl following the providing man and attacking his real wife. (in the case of married businessmen who go to small University towns to find some side gig)

Why would a Chinese girl decide to marry you the first day she meets you though? They are supposed to be wise and practical. Why would they make such a decision that fast?

They are very wise and very calculating and you can be assured she already has a detailed checklist of everything she wants in her future partner memorized. In your first meeting she will be mentally going through that checklist, and if you meet enough of them, she will latch on.

I get the sense though, that these marriage-minded Chinese girls don't want to just "hang out" and meet people for fun. They are all or nothing. They aren't interested in friends, dating or romance, unless it will lead to marriage. Is that true?

I believe this is true. Not to say that Chinese are not open to meeting new people, but, from what I have seen, Chinese are very close, like family level close, with their high school and university classmates. These groups can be large and tightly knit and these are the people they will give the shirt off their back to help and vice versa. These are the people they hang out with for fun. When it comes to the relationship, they are single minded and looking for that husband.

The_Adventurer is right. Chinese women DO make up their minds about you real quick! If she starts touching you, feeding you or takes you round to meet her parents then you can assume she's already planning your wedding .

They also invest a lot of their emotions in a relationship, and they can get really hurt if you end the relationship. It's tough but if a relationship isn't going to work then you just can't marry a girl because you feel sorry for her.

I think my current girl is going to be hurt beyond belief if I can't commit. I know her previous bf caused her a lot of emotional pain (he was a bad boy, and her parents didn't like him!).

But since my first Chinese gf ripped my heart out, my subconcious is telling me to take things much more slowly in my own relationships.

I don't know why Chinese women hurt themselves so much by failing to realise that men have a real problem committing (and I'm assuming Chinese men have the same problems deciding if she is The One).

And to any guys who are contemplating finding an Asian wife, it's a good idea to do some playing (but just be careful). You wouldn't buy a car without doing a test drive, so why should a woman be any different?

By no means am I suggesting anyone get into marriage before sex, unless, of course, you believe in that too, and you can certainly have sex with your girl, but be aware that in her mind you are already married and everything else is just formality. Very few girls will have sex with a guy they do not intend to marry. The one's that do that, if you're not in the big city, everyone knows about them and being seen with them will surely bring your chances with good girls to shipwreck.

Even a good girl can move very fast. One of my translators slept with her bf on the second day. Unfortunately he was just using her and when he was done he just cut all contact. She was devastated beyond belief and I don't know how many hours I had to spend on the phone with her, or in person, talking her through it. One of the first girls I met online here, even though we never met in person, just chatted on Skype all the time, was devastated when I ended up with my current girl. Apparently she had already made up her mind and saw no other possibilities. I didn't know how serious they can get back then. To this day she pops up as viewing mine or my girl's web spaces.

[Winston]

Some of you might have trouble believing this, but I swear it's true. Many of the women I correspond with in China write with MUCH BETTER English than anyone I've seen in Taiwan. Yet Taiwanese consider themselves more educated and better than China. How ironic. Go figure.

Seriously though, a number of girls there write me long sincere intelligent letters with excellent fluent English. It's amazing. I'm very impressed. In contrast, most Taiwanese only write one or two sentences in English to me, if at all. (most don't write back at all)

So how can Chinese girls be more educated than Taiwanese and write better English? It totally defies the beliefs of the Taiwanese. I should tell all my Taiwanese relatives about that, even if it offends them. But the truth is the truth. lol

I'm serious. Even simple Chinese girls who are not that educated write English really well and have a lot to say and can hold long deep intelligent conversations. How can this be? I'm pretty shocked and impressed.

Yet it's funny how Taiwanese consider themselves better than Chinese in every way. My experience is the exact opposite. I guess Taiwanese need a dose of reality check. lol

[Rock]

Some of you might have trouble believing this, but I swear it's true. Many of the women I correspond with in China write with MUCH BETTER English than anyone I've seen in Taiwan. Yet Taiwanese consider themselves more educated and better than China. How ironic. Go figure.

Seriously though, a number of girls there write me long sincere intelligent letters with excellent fluent English. It's amazing. I'm very impressed. In contrast, most Taiwanese only write one or two sentences in English to me, if at all. (most don't write back at all)

So how can Chinese girls be more educated than Taiwanese and write better English? It totally defies the beliefs of the Taiwanese. I should tell all my Taiwanese relatives about that, even if it offends them. But the truth is the truth. lol

I'm serious. Even simple Chinese girls who are not that educated write English really well and have a lot to say and can hold long deep intelligent conversations. How can this be? I'm pretty shocked and impressed.

Yet it's funny how Taiwanese consider themselves better than Chinese in every way. My experience is the exact opposite. I guess Taiwanese need a dose of reality check. lol

I suspect you are dealing with a very special subset of PRC girls, those who go on Chinese Kisses or DIA which are sites w lots of foreigners on them. If you were to select a random sample of young local girls from the the streets of Beijing or Shanghai (hippest areas), do the same with Taipei, then give them all an English speaking and writing test, I think the Taiwanese would probably win. I believe this because I personally encountered fewer English speakers in those areas of China than Taiwan.

I just came back from southern China a few days ago (Shenzhen, Donguan, and Guangzhou) and the only girl I met who seemed to be able to speak English was from Chinese Kisses (the only one I met in Guangzhou). But her English was really good, almost like an ABC accent wise. But then again, she's only dated foreigners and hangs out with African guys too.


As I've told you before, I don't think many Taiwan girls make themselves available on international websites the way some PRC girls do because there are very few poor people here.

BTW, in my last company, there was a Taiwan girl who's English writing was better than mine (she wrote a lot of reports) even though she had only been in States for 2 years as a grad student.

People in Taipei are definitely more polite on average than people in Shanghai or Beijing. I found Guangzhou to be even worse. I'm talking about people you encounter in public - bus drivers, taxis, shops, etc. Chinese are probably the most direct Asians I've encountered.

And many of the places are dirty and ugly too. When I got of bus at Donguan, I went into restroom and first thing I see is a dozen or so guys squated down like peasants crapping with everything in plain view. They think nothing of it too. They just take their time messing with their cellphone or reading papers at the same time. I reckon girls toilet is similar, lol. And there's filth everywhere. Even the cheaper rooms I've seen there have squatters right only toilets. Funny thing is, some of them also provide an Internet connected computer right in the room.

Trust me, you meet some very uncouth types all over China. Even in a higher class area of Shekou (Seaworld), I encountered one of them right in my bank. As I was talking to the person in charge of my account, some local and his wife stormed in yelling at the top his lungs about not being bad treatment by the bank, etc. That went on for 15 minutes while customers stood back and watched and security personal mostly just watched too. That kind of shit goes down a lot in China. There are lots of rough people there and even more rude types. But in Taipei, its pretty rare.

If you were to focus on just the cream (top 0.001% or whatever) regarding education or technical skills or about any other metric, then China would probably beat Taiwan cus the country is so damn big and the high-end there is very high. But in general, Taiwan (especially Taipei City) is a middle class haven with people who emulate a lot of polite style western sensibilities. OTH, China is a place with extremes where the rich act like they own the world (and they do there) and abuse everyone else, poor are numerous and often despised, and the middle class is nascent, relatively small, and often angling to make it into rich class.

[sushiman]

Shit I was in SH for two weeks and had three girls that wanted to marry me before I knew what was happening. All good girls from good families. One turned into a stalker, seriously. They do indeed take things very seriously and don't give you much space. Doing it on the first date with all of them, that seems to be the norm. The 9.5 was second date. Seeing family soon after.

The ones that work for a foreign company speak perfect English, very good communicators, funny, sophisticated, charming, smart. Much better than Philippines in for communication in my opinion. However thats the sophisticated English speaking girls, the vast majority can't speak worth a shit which makes communication a funny and quickly tiring game.

I wouldn't take what women say too seriously. They all say no games serious only let's get married tomorrow...but they know that ain't how it works. It's a risk and they know that, just treat her good.

[DCX_10]

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[Billy]

DCX that´s incredible. So what´s the reason? Are you the maan?

[DCX_10]

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[sushiman]

Yep that's China for you.

I too had done a lot of talking online before the meetings. I think that was key. There was one very young pretty college one who met me in the hotel lobby...conversation went like "you are better looking than your photo" and then "oh by the way may I spend the night" within about 2 minutes of meeting. Yeah you totally gotta pinch yourself, is it real? Could have gone to the room right then but I felt like dinner first.

Never really did get a grasp on wtf was happening with some of these encounters. Never requests for money.