I don't belong in an extroverted country

[OzGuy]

I thought this topic deserves a thread of its own, as i'm sure many of you here feel the same way.

I have lived in Australia all my life and feel like I have never fit in. Like the US, approximately 75% of people are extroverts. Extroversion is rewarded, it is often percieved as "friendly" and "outgoing". On the other hand, introversion is often perceived as "snobby", "rude" and "shy". If you are one of the 25% who are introverted, then you're going to feel very lonely and isolated in an extroverted country. I believe one of the reasons why I have never been truly happy is because I feel as though I don't belong in an extroverted culture. People always comment and say stuff like "gee you're quiet", as if its some sort of problem. Yes, I am quiet, as I don't see the point in making unnecessary chit chat about superficial crap like who won the football game on the weekend.

As an introvert, I prefer to have intelligent conversations and friendships that have more depth. It is extremely difficult to find this in Australia with anyone. This is a big reason why I want to move to Europe, as most of the people there are a lot more introverted, intelligent, and have deeper friendships. The German speaking countries in particular are probably the most introverted in Europe. I will probably be moving to Switzerland, and I am hoping that I will finally find a place where I feel like I belong. I want to live in a place where introversion is seen as a positive, not a negative.

I also believe that introverted men have it even harder when it comes to dating in an Anglo country. Women here prefer outgoing, bold, confident men, they aren't interested in the shy quiet types. Even if I was an extrovert, dating would be difficult with all the competition, but being an introvert makes it nearly impossible. I am hoping in Europe that the women prefer quiet, intelligent men with more substance.

Does anyone else here feel the same way?

[Someone]

Yeah, I can definitely relate to this!

I don't know about Australia, but the USA is definitely no country for introverted or "thinking" types, not only are they not appreciated here, they're actively disliked.

One interesting thing here is that in the Anglosphere, people very quickly lump anyone who's not extroverted into the "autism" or "Asperger's" category, i.e. it's not normal to not be extroverted, people like that are seen as misfits.

In some ways, being an introvert or a "thinking" person cuts both ways. You may not feel appreciated, but if you're smart, you can come up with some creative strategies to give yourself an edge. Intelligent people reproduce, largely thanks to their ingenuity in finding solutions.

Making friends will definitely be easier in Europe, as for dating I'm not so sure. In Western Europe, women don't exactly throw themselves at men either, the way they do in the East. Many men in Germany are still not married at 40 and have trouble finding women which is why they go to Poland. Italians, for example, travel to the Baltic states to get women.

[OzGuy]

Yeah, I can definitely relate to this!

I don't know about Australia, but the USA is definitely no country for introverted or "thinking" types, not only are they not appreciated here, they're actively disliked.

Its the same here. Introverts are disliked, especially by women (if you're a man). It is almost impossible for an introverted man to get a date, but its still easy for an introverted woman to get one. For some reason a shy woman is more desirable than a shy man. I think it comes down to the confidence thing that women prefer. On the other hand, most men don't care if a woman is shy.

One interesting thing here is that in the Anglosphere, people very quickly lump anyone who's not extroverted into the "autism" or "Asperger's" category, i.e. it's not normal to not be extroverted, people like that are seen as misfits.

That's because extroverts make up the majority. So if you aren't one of them then there must be something wrong with you. I am often made to feel like this.

Making friends will definitely be easier in Europe, as for dating I'm not so sure. In Western Europe, women don't exactly throw themselves at men either, the way they do in the East. Many men in Germany are still not married at 40 and have trouble finding women which is why they go to Poland. Italians, for example, travel to the Baltic states to get women.

That's true, but at least there is a much higher chance of success. There are many good looking women in western Europe who have been single for years (especially in German speaking countries).

[C.J.]

Australia is a very westernized country. The mental illness in these countries are the same no matter where you go. In any other country where there's little westernization in comparison(like philippines for example), you'll find socialization more natural. Because people have less mental illness, and are more inclined to socialize with you for a reason. People who don't wanna have anything to do with you, just don't bother with you.

I consider extroversion as the inability to look within. People who exhibit high levels of extroversion are simply those who have less time or inclination to look within. By looking within, I mean thinking more than talking(or just shutting the f**k up as some call it). When you think about it this way, the whole "extro-introvert" categorization makes a WHOLE lot more sense, and you'll see why the western world cares more about it than any other.

[emh]

Oh I can definitely relate. It's particularly hard for introverts because we're expected to ask the women out. Which is hard for us. Another issue for me is that I rarely drink alcohol and detest bars. But that seems to be the social thing to do pretty much all over the world. So I end up spending lots of time by myself, particularly in the evening.

BTW, I'm curious how you plan on living legally in Switzerland???

[OzGuy]

Oh I can definitely relate. It's particularly hard for introverts because we're expected to ask the women out. Which is hard for us. Another issue for me is that I rarely drink alcohol and detest bars. But that seems to be the social thing to do pretty much all over the world. So I end up spending lots of time by myself, particularly in the evening.

BTW, I'm curious how you plan on living legally in Switzerland???

I am lucky enough to have swiss citizenship through parents. This means I can also live in any EU country. Having an EU passport is like having a golden ticket.

[Falcon]

To me, extroversion itself is not a problem.

Fake extroversion is the problem. People feel like they have to put on a superficial kind of extroversion because they are afraid to be left out as "weirdos" or "loners" if they do not do so. The extroversion you see in the U.S. and other Anglosphere countries feels highly scripted and meant to make impressions on others that they are "cool" people.

Mestizos in Mexico are very extroverted, but their kind of extroversion is down-to-earth, laid back, and genuine. It is not the scripted kind that is meant to make superficial impressions. They laugh because they easily laugh and want to laugh, not because they have an urge to post Facebook photos of themselves smiling in order to show the whole world how "cool" they are. Introverts and less talkative people there are also very well accepted - they are just seen as sterner rather than as weirdos or loners. Indigenous (Amerindian) Mexicans tend to be much more introverted and quiet than the mestizos though.

In the U.S., I have always felt left out as an introvert. In Mexico, I was quickly able to take on a laid-back, extroverted personality. When you travel abroad, you may unexpectedly find yourself suddenly popping out of your shell and becoming a different person.

[Introvert]

If I wasn't so introverted, I could go on about this topic for months.



To me, extroverts get their motivation from their surroundings and from people around them. They thrive on physical interaction and, some would say, drama. If there is nothing going on, they are bored. So, they'll start something, mix it up, in order to eliminate that boredom. They are the front liners; the first responders.

I am the complete opposite. I'm slow to respond sometimes. Why? I like to think things through. I'm not saying that I'm more intelligent or smarter. I like taking in the view of situations from different angles. Sometimes, I get distracted by a passing thought and chase tangents. It's enjoyable to me. But I realize that it is not always practical.

The Internet is the domain of the Introvert. However, I personally believe that we are all a mix of introvert/extrovert. From what I can tell, forum members with lengthy forum posts and huge post counts in a short amount of time are usually pretty extroverted for introverts. Frequent bloggers are somewhere in the middle on the spectrum. The youtube vloggers are probably amongst the most extroverted along with frequent Facebook updaters. They want to be seen, heard and recognized. Me? I'm happy with this little corner over here.

A concern of mine in the States about introverts is portrayal in the media, particularly after a shooting has occured. Lately, we hear a lot about how "he was such a quiet guy". Every time this happens, I suddenly feel suspicious for nothing more than my natural temperament; like I better be extra outgoing today. There's also the saying, "It's always the quiet ones," normally said jokingly. However, for a naturally instrospective person that may also be impressionable, this could cause one to seek to fit in so that he can be seen as 'normal'.

You make a great point about how it's more acceptable to be a female introvert than a male one. Have you also noticed that just about every book written about introversion is by a female author? I've been trying to find one from a straight man's perspective but haven't found one yet. Maybe I'll have to be the one to write it.

[emh]

Oh I can definitely relate. It's particularly hard for introverts because we're expected to ask the women out. Which is hard for us. Another issue for me is that I rarely drink alcohol and detest bars. But that seems to be the social thing to do pretty much all over the world. So I end up spending lots of time by myself, particularly in the evening.

BTW, I'm curious how you plan on living legally in Switzerland???

I am lucky enough to have swiss citizenship through parents. This means I can also live in any EU country. Having an EU passport is like having a golden ticket.

Nice! Are your parents looking to adopt? I can pay my own way.

[Falcon]

In personality tests, I show up as a borderline introvert/extrovert. I'm sure this is true for very large percentage of people. We can be more introverted or more extroverted depending what kind of situation we are in.

One thing is that many Americans are highly extroverted only within their social cliques. They are often cold, stiff, and suspicious towards people outside their social circles. Extroversion certainly does not apply everywhere.

But if you do want to be in a society where 24/7 introverts are highly appreciated, try:

- East Asia (some parts)
- South Asia: India, etc.
- Amerindian communities in Latin America

[jamesbond]

One thing is that many Americans are highly extroverted only within their social cliques. They are often cold, stiff, and suspicious towards people outside their social circles. Extroversion certainly does not apply everywhere.

Your right, outside of Americans social circles they are cold and aloof. They don't like meeting new people and only socialize with people within their little clique. If your not part of their clique ............... your not going to be able to make friends with them.

[The Arab]

To me, extroversion itself is not a problem.

Fake extroversion is the problem. People feel like they have to put on a superficial kind of extroversion because they are afraid to be left out as "weirdos" or "loners" if they do not do so. The extroversion you see in the U.S. and other Anglosphere countries feels highly scripted and meant to make impressions on others that they are "cool" people.

Mestizos in Mexico are very extroverted, but their kind of extroversion is down-to-earth, laid back, and genuine. It is not the scripted kind that is meant to make superficial impressions. They laugh because they easily laugh and want to laugh, not because they have an urge to post Facebook photos of themselves smiling in order to show the whole world how "cool" they are. Introverts and less talkative people there are also very well accepted - they are just seen as sterner rather than as weirdos or loners. Indigenous (Amerindian) Mexicans tend to be much more introverted and quiet than the mestizos though.

In the U.S., I have always felt left out as an introvert. In Mexico, I was quickly able to take on a laid-back, extroverted personality. When you travel abroad, you may unexpectedly find yourself suddenly popping out of your shell and becoming a different person.

I was about to respond to this thread with a long rant, but Falcon hit the nail on the head.

I am very confident and engaging and social, with a debonair and urbane air -- and very much a refined thinker and observer. I have low tolerance for superficiality, narcissism, and self-absorption, so when I'm around people with these traits, despite my natural exuberance , I can't help feel distaste and an inclination not to hang around the company of superficial people. When I talk to others, I'm probing and observing and studying their character and what they're really about. I can sense it immediately when people are acting phony.

I'm a man of substance, and substance is what I look for when interacting with others.

[Winston]

I don't understand something. How does being freethinking, intellectual or genuine, make one an introvert? Can't one be an outgoing friendly social extrovert and be those things as well?

My concept of an introvert is someone who is shy, withdrawn, and in his own world, not that open or sociable with others. Is that untrue?

[Introvert]

I don't understand something. How does being freethinking, intellectual or genuine, make one an introvert? Can't one be an outgoing friendly social extrovert and be those things as well?

My concept of an introvert is someone who is shy, withdrawn, and in his own world, not that open or sociable with others. Is that untrue?

Introversion and being shy are not the same. Introversion is the preference of being in one's own inner world. Shyness is the inability to leave one's own world and interact with others on a social level. Yes, they can both exist at the same time and they often appear to be similar characteristics. Adding to the confusion is that, as was pointed out, one can feel outgoing one minute and withdrawn the next.

I don't understand something. How does being freethinking, intellectual or genuine, make one an introvert?

It doesn't.

Can't one be an outgoing friendly social extrovert and be those things as well?

Yes.

[Winston]

I remember reading in books about the acting profession, that introverts were actually better actors than extroverts. Do any of you know why that might be?