The 'Greener on the other side' syndrome of American culture

[PeterAndrewNolan]

Great thread here.

All good input except for, well, Peter.

Peter it's amazing how you can cite actual facts, yet end up turning your post into a torrent of irrational anger. I don't think the hosility was justified by the OP's thoughtful insights.

You are an educated person and this is not your best.

Jester,
grow up. There is no anger in my post. The "anger" is in your head. It is there because of the man-hatred and misandry in your head that has been put there by your society.

Consider this possibility. There is NO ANGER in my post let alone anything "irrational". There is also NO HOSTILITY.

So Grow Up jester. And stop being such a bigot against men and stop being so demeaning of women. Women claimed equality....so I talk to them like men. If my comments were made to a man you would not even bother to comment. It is just your sexism, discrimination and bigotry that has you make false claims about what I wrote.

The woman showed she is stupid and ignorant and has no idea of what is really happening. Yet men here are so hard up to talk to a woman they praise her for stupidity and ignorance! LOL!! And if you thought her insights were insightful you must be a complete idiot yourself Jester.

Let me give you an example of how I deal with my fav#1.

We were having dinner over the holiday break at christmas...and one of her comments was that "men cause all the wars and mens aggression is what causes so many problems in society"

I said to her words to the following effect. She is intelligent and so she knows there was no "anger" in what I said.

"You women are so stupid. You are so self centered. You never think about anything other than yourselves. You never consider the world from anyone elses point of view let alone a mans point of view. Men do not cause wars. WOMEN cause wars. You cause wars by demanding that you want to marry up socially and economically. Since not all women can marry up there is pent up demand from WOMEN to force men to acquire more wealth and status. And the only way to do that quickly is through wars of conquest.

Every man who goes off to war goes off to war for "the women and children"...and NOT for himself.

Even when there is no war women demand that they want the man with the most resources and highest social standing. You are doing this yourself. They way that men establish their wealth of social standing is by competing with other men. And they are competing with other men to get the best woman they can get.

So there. You WOMEN are the cause of virtually ALL conflict between men. You are the cause of ALL wars.

If women would simply accept their husband by some form of lottery and there was no way a woman could choose a man based on wealth or social status there would be no wars, there would be no conflict among men, because they would not have to compete for women.

THAT is how self centered you women are. You do not even realise YOU cause ALL WARS."

She was STUNNED...she had NEVER thought about it before in that way and she admitted I was exactly correct once she thought about it. She had NO PROBLEM being called stupid and selfish and self centered because she realised SHE WAS. She actually THANKED ME for correcting her wildly inaccurate statement of men cause all wars.

[fschmidt]

The question is, which is the cause and which is the effect? I would argue that liberalism and feminism are a major cause of selfishness and consumerism. Women consume by instinct. But men mainly consume only to impress women. Virtually all advertising aimed at men imply that the product will help the man get laid. In a patriarchal monogamous society, there is little need to consume. Each man gets a wife and so doesn't have to worry about impressing women. A nd women's consuming instinct is kept in check by her husband. In a patriarchal monogamous society, things like honesty and intelligence are valued. But when monogamy breaks down, these things become worthless and the only things that matter are the things that impress women, which basically are consumption and public displays of immorality. So that's where we are now.

[Jester]

....Women claimed equality....so I talk to them like men. If my comments were made to a man you would not even bother to comment.

Yes, I treat women like they are different - since they are. You are a madman.

So there. You WOMEN are the cause of virtually ALL conflict between men. You are the cause of ALL wars.

If women would simply accept their husband by some form of lottery and there was no way a woman could choose a man based on wealth or social status there would be no wars, there would be no conflict among men, because they would not have to compete for women.

Your twisted BS may work on your little groupie, but noone here buys it. Noone wants women assigned by lottery, and noone seeks to change the fact that men compete for what they want.

Yes, there would be little war, or invention, or art without women. Certainly no agriculture. We would hunt, and brew, and eat, and drink, and fart. Till we died out.

You think this means they caused war?

You idiot. All wars were caused by men. Why is that so? Because men run things. Good men. Bad men. Feminist men. Illuminist men.

And once in a while - crazy men.

You are an embarrassment to rational atheists and non-believers, most of whom make more sense than you.

Bender is right, you should do some honest, non-ideological work for a while, it will ground you.

[lavezzi]

No sensible person will deny that the poisonous Western culture badly affects males as well as females. Females just happen to be in the driving seat as the culture caters to them in all aspects. Some men on this forum are just as shallow and entitled as AW, but many have managed to evade much of the bad conditioning and are simply seeking to re-locate to a different culture which caters to their needs as a man.

This is a Western phenomenon of cultural decline, in which Anglo cultures are by far the worst off (likely due to the types of media forces you talked about). You cannot as a Canadian take the high road and pretend your culture is exempt from this. America may be at the forefront due to it's size and media-influence, but ALL of the Anglo-cultures are badly affected by this (US, Canada, UK, Ireland, AUS, NZ).

[lavezzi]

^ Yep. That's the stereotype in Korea. Korean guys heard that American women are sluts (from movies I think).

An american woman will bang some stranger in the alley they just met at a bar, which is very different from how any normal Korean woman would behave. So the Korean guys want to go talk dirty to them, bang, and dump.

True. On more than one occasion I've talked to Asian women who were under the impression that public fornication is totally legal and socially acceptable in the West.

[lavezzi]

If women would simply accept their husband by some form of lottery and there was no way a woman could choose a man based on wealth or social status there would be no wars, there would be no conflict among men, because they would not have to compete for women.

Your twisted BS may work on your little groupie, but noone here buys it. Noone wants women assigned by lottery

I think he was saying that strictly from a hypothetical point of view. A much better system by which to assign monogamy is arranged marriages, where a person's family chooses their spouse from another family. Of course this would never work in today's age, but in the past when traditional gender roles/religious values were intact and levels consumerism/other forms of mental illnesses were low, it worked for a healthy and functional society.

[PeterAndrewNolan]

....Women claimed equality....so I talk to them like men. If my comments were made to a man you would not even bother to comment.

Yes, I treat women like they are different - since they are. You are a madman.

So there. You WOMEN are the cause of virtually ALL conflict between men. You are the cause of ALL wars.

If women would simply accept their husband by some form of lottery and there was no way a woman could choose a man based on wealth or social status there would be no wars, there would be no conflict among men, because they would not have to compete for women.

Your twisted BS may work on your little groupie, but noone here buys it. Noone wants women assigned by lottery, and noone seeks to change the fact that men compete for what they want.

Yes, there would be little war, or invention, or art without women. Certainly no agriculture. We would hunt, and brew, and eat, and drink, and fart. Till we died out.

You think this means they caused war?

You idiot. All wars were caused by men. Why is that so? Because men run things. Good men. Bad men. Feminist men. Illuminist men.

And once in a while - crazy men.

You are an embarrassment to rational atheists and non-believers, most of whom make more sense than you.

Bender is right, you should do some honest, non-ideological work for a while, it will ground you.

Jester,
Your man-hatred and misandry are coming to the for. If you treat western women different to how you treat western men then you are a sexist, discriminatory bigot BY DEFINITION. Women DEMANDED to be treated as equals. So not doing so is bigotry AGAINST MEN.

"All wars were caused by men. Why is that so? Because men run things. Good men. Bad men. Feminist men. Illuminist men."

No. They are NOT caused by men. They are CAUSED BY WOMEN. The men who are at the top can only get men to go to war if WOMEN FORCE THE MEN TO GO. Men are enslaved by women. NOT MEN. If you do not know this then you are ignorant on this issue. It is very HATEFUL to blame men for ALL WARS when it is NOT MEN who cause all wars. It is WOMEN in the VAST majority. Here is how men are enslaved.

http://www.mensbusinessassociation.com/ ... fault.aspx

Women HAD to enslave men and the men at the top know they can always rely on women as the willing accomplices to whatever they want to do to enslave the men down the tree.

The ONLY reason men go off to war is some woman is pushing him out the door using some leverage over him. The white feather campaigns that were run in the british empire in WW I were a good example of how women push men into wars. The men at the top could not get men to go off and fight wars unless VAST NUMBERS OF WOMEN USED THEIR INFLUENCE TO FORCE THE MEN OUT TO WAR. One of the MOST USED techniques across MANY wars was for women to with hold sex from men who would not sign up for a war and to freely give sex to men who did.

In WW II the british women were such sluts and screwing so many GIs that the british guvment put a BAN on any news stories about married women screwing GIs for fear of upsetting the men overseas fighting.

Indeed. My fav#3 was telling a german boyfriend how "good and faithful" some women can be. He stopped her in her tracks by saying "we know about women and being faithful. After the war our women would have sex with a GI for a pair of stockings while her husband was in a prisoner of war camp. That is faithfulness of women."

Also. If you watch videos of soldiers marching in the cities...be they german, english, american...you will see the women throwing themselves at these soldiers while the men in the street who are NOT soldiers are being totally ignored by the women. The promise of a womans "affection" is a strong motivator for a man. And men in uniform get more "affection". This has been the case for millenia.

And the comment on if women were assigned husbands based on a lottery is a hypothetical situation. But in a totally equal society why would that NOT work, eh? Stop and think about it. 90% of men in the west are miserable with the wives THEY CHOSE. Seems like CHOOSING wives does not work very well when the women are empowered to rob the man blind.

Face it Jester. You know in your heart that women pit men against each other in competition for their "affection". It has always been so. Therefore the CAUSE of the conflict is the WOMAN. Not the men. And just by the way. The logical end for feminism is for men to STOP competing for women and just give up and be drunks. This is the situation in the Ukraine to a large extent. And if there is one thing women really HATE it is not being able to get men to compete for their "affection". When men IGNORE women and refuse to compete for them women go BALLISTIC.

Stop hating men so much Jester. After all. You ARE ONE.

Your delusional view of women is taking a bit of a battering isn't it.

[Empyrian]

Consider this possibility. There is NO ANGER in my post let alone anything "irrational". There is also NO HOSTILITY.

I hate to break this to you, because you are obviously delusional and you must spend a great deal of time obsessing over these concepts. Flipping out, insulting people by calling them ignorant and stupid, and attacking an opinion with no real rational argument is hostile. And I think most people on this forum would agree. 'NO HOSTILITY' in your post is not a possibility to be considered. What's in YOUR head, and not Jester's, is the issue here- and it's beyond me.

So Grow Up jester. And stop being such a bigot against men and stop being so demeaning of women. Women claimed equality....so I talk to them like men. If my comments were made to a man you would not even bother to comment. It is just your sexism, discrimination and bigotry that has you make false claims about what I wrote.

This is pretty irrational. I have to say, if your hostile, uncontributive ravings were directed towards anyone else- man OR woman, I would've had the same reaction. The sex of the OP is not relevant in my treatment of this. You may have become obsessed with viewing everything on the basis of sex, but not everyone does that- and especially not those people who are dedicated to rational thought. They have a word for that- it's called sexism. Akin to racism. They're real words, and they're real concepts. And they're real ignorant. Most intelligent people know this.

I cannot believe you have the audacity to accuse others of bigotry when you are the most immovable object on this forum. You will not accept any disagreement with your beliefs. To you, they are rock solid and gospel truth. I'm sorry, but that is just not the case.

I hope that one day you'll realize that you are trying to put women, and men in a very small box. Each sex is HALF OF HUMANITY. Both sexes, and your severely limited assessment of them, is the ENTIRETY OF HUMANITY. Do you realize how diverse humanity is? Come out of the dark room and take off the tinfoil hat. I do not desire to disrespect you, even though you have repeatedly disrespected half of the people on this forum. But please, shut the f**k up for once, because it's time to regain some sanity here.

[polya]

The problem is neither American Women, nor is the problem American Men for the constant dissatisfaction both sexes seem to feel for each other. Indeed, I believe the problem lies squarely with your culture, specifically your consumerism culture.

In the end I think it's important to realize that "Feminazi, stuck up bitches" and "immature man-children" aren't really the problem, the problem is something far more complex than being able to point a finger at the opposite sex and proclaim "them" the problem. The problem is something deep and complicated and insidiously subtle in the very culture of America and its people where promises are made to the populace that can't possibly be kept and thus leads to disappointment and dissatisfaction in everything: your clothes, your looks, your car, your relationships, even your very country and language.

Hopefully this has resonated with some if the discontent and lonely that prowl this site and will lead to honest discussions and exploration. If not at least I hope I've brought an intelligent opinion to the table.

I really disagree with your first two paragraphs. American Women (AW) are the problem. They simply don't need a man & don't want one because they simply get married and then have kids, then a divorce and "mommy support" for the next 18 years. Since these laws favor women as around 90% of the time the woman gets custody - so why isn't it 50/50? It's because women are put above the man in today's society. So no wonder most AW are entitled b!tches.

[PeterAndrewNolan]

I hate to break this to you, because you are obviously delusional and you must spend a great deal of time obsessing over these concepts. Flipping out, insulting people by calling them ignorant and stupid, and attacking an opinion with no real rational argument is hostile. And I think most people on this forum would agree. 'NO HOSTILITY' in your post is not a possibility to be considered. What's in YOUR head, and not Jester's, is the issue here- and it's beyond me.

Empyrian,
when men are stupid and ignorant is it not "flipping out" or "insulting" them to say so. Grow up. Most men are stupid and ignorant about legislation and law.

[boycottamericanwomen]

Jesus, Jester. 50 years of man hating feminism and you are still kissing women's ass? You are one pathetic son of a bitch.

[fschmidt]

I agree with Jester. Saying that women are the problem is like saying that bullets are responsible for killing people. Yes bullets may kill people, but they are not responsible. It is the personal who pulls the trigger, the person in control, who is responsible. The analogy to feminism is: women are like the bullets, culture is like the gun, and men are like the person who pulls the trigger. Men are responsible for culture and culture determines how women behave.

[Empyrian]

Empyrian,
when men are stupid and ignorant is it not "flipping out" or "insulting" them to say so. Grow up. Most men are stupid and ignorant about legislation and law.

'Grow up'? I disagree completely. Call me crazy, but I think this:

All you did was to confirm your stupidity and ignorance.

You women can just never shut up can you. You always have to have your say no matter it marks you as stupid and ignorant in the extreme.

is an insult. Maybe you should provide a reasonable, logical counter-argument to that they said rather than "You have no idea what's going on and you are stupid". No long argument like that is without its flaws. We all can only think within the box of our own mind and our perception is limited. But I honestly think that post was 'getting a little warmer' to the truth than blanket generalizations. Most of what you posted in this thread were just attacks on the OP, and then attacks on the people who disagreed with you. How about focusing on the idea at hand? God damn.




My thoughts on the original post, so I don't become a hypocrite:


Consumerism culture in America is definitely a major problem. I am very picky when it comes to women's looks. But I don't think I'm overly picky, I just have to be attracted to them. I'm not sure consumerism is necessarily the cause of that. Maybe trying to always find the "better, higher up mate" is human nature. I don't think I aim too high, but maybe I do.

I do agree that you can't always view things in a 'grass is greener' way. I have often found myself looking for happiness in women, and then when I get them- they can't give it to me and I become disillusioned. I do think that language and cultural barriers can affect a relationship- but we can use your own argument to refute the second part. I do think that American culture has really suffered, and it's sad. That means the women have suffered from it. From my personal experience, the women in other countries don't seem as unappreciative and obnoxious. If it's just because I'm 'exotic' and different to them, that's fine because it's mutual. At least I'm appreciated.

[PeterAndrewNolan]

Empyrian,
what I said is not an insult. It is the TRUTH. The TRUTH can not be an insult. It is just the truth. If someone FEELS that the truth is an insult then they KNOW it is the truth. Grow up. Women are not your friends. Certainly not THIS woman.

"Maybe you should provide a reasonable, logical counter-argument to that they said "

There is no point providing counter arguments to women. They are too stupid to understand them and even the women who do refuse to address the issues at hand. If you do not know this by now you too are also very ignorant of the true nature of women.

Consider for just a minute that 100% of the women in both houses of the Irish and Australian parliaments as well as 100% of the 250 women in the international womens club of dublin openly support and condone the crimes of perjury, kidnapping, extortion, theft and child abuse.

Why the hell would I talk to people who OPENLY CONDONE CRIMINAL ACTS?

I tried talking to western women. They are hateful bitches in the 99.9%+ majority who openly support criminal actions of women. There are almost NO exceptions.

So I just call them the liars and hypocrites they have chosen to be. I call them stupid and ignorant because they ARE. And I really don't care how many people try and say anything different because I happen to be correct.

The ball is in the WOMENS court to do something..and this is what they MUST DO before they get a seat at my table again. Any man not willing to do the same in the west is an idiot.

http://www.crimesagainstfathers.com/aus ... fault.aspx

[PeterAndrewNolan]

I agree with Jester. Saying that women are the problem is like saying that bullets are responsible for killing people. Yes bullets may kill people, but they are not responsible. It is the personal who pulls the trigger, the person in control, who is responsible. The analogy to feminism is: women are like the bullets, culture is like the gun, and men are like the person who pulls the trigger. Men are responsible for culture and culture determines how women behave.

fschmidt,
no one is holding a gun to womens heads and demanding they divorce men and destroy families. They are doing that out of greed and selfishness. To say that women are not responsible for their actions is to deny their CLAIM they are equal. So that makes you a man hater and sexist bigot against men.

I recommend you hold women to the SAME standard you hold men and stop giving them a p***y pass just because they are women. Stop being a bigot.