Thinking of moving to Europe sooner...

gsjackson · Post by **gsjackson** » May 26th, 2012, 9:56 pm

UK, France, Belgium, Netherlands, Germany, Austria, Czech Republic, Croatia. Contrary to general opinion on this board, I like the UK. Croatia (which will be joining the EU next year) a close second.

Jester · Post by **Jester** » May 26th, 2012, 11:27 pm

eurobrat wrote:Thats crap, how come I'm not allowed to go live in Switzerland with my EU passport?

Interesting question. Check this out.

http://www.bfm.admin.ch/bfm/en/home/the ... hweiz.html

So it appears that Switzerland's accession treaty to the EU allows special rules limiting Eastern Europeans. Does your passport from EE?

Also it appears that the right of abode under Schengen is not automatic even for Western Eurpeans, unless they have a job or a pension. Travel yes, abode no. Check this website out (even though it's about Germany, not Switzerland):

http://berlin.angloinfo.com/countries/g ... idency.asp

The following categories are regarded as legitimate "residence" under the EC Treaty:

Employment
Study
Economically non-active
Staying as a family member of a citizen of the Union
Pensioners

That should cover everyone, right? No. "Self-employed" isn't on that list. Neither is "looking for work". Or "planning to start a business".

And Germany is easier than Switzerland, no residency permit required right? It says that exactly:

On the basis of the EC Treaty, residence permits are not required for EU citizens who wish to reside in Germany....

But not quite. Because it also states:

At the same time as completing the police registration procedure, EU citizens can apply for a certificate stating the right of residence. This certificate has an unlimited validity and does not need to be renewed unless the holder's passport or ID number changes in the future.

Thus you don't need a residency permit for Germany, but you do a need to do a police registration plus a "certificate stating the right of residence."

Big difference, eh?
But at least the certificate doesn't expire. So once you DO get in, it's more or less a permanent residency.

And check this out:

The following documents are required:

Passport
Proof of health insurance
Employment contract or proof of being in receipt of a pension
Self-employed persons must be able to prove monthly earnings of at least â‚¬600

So you have to prove self-employment income in Germany. That demonstrates that abode is not automatic under Schengen.

But Switzerland is much harder. You have to have a business plan and capital and get approved by the bureaucracy, right after you show up in country:

http://www.bfm.admin.ch/content/bfm/en/ ... tml#a_0010

Within 14 days of their arrival and before taking up any gainful employment, self-employed people need to register either with the communal authorities of the place they reside or with the cantonal labor and migration authorities and apply for apply for a residence permit for self-employment. Also required are a valid ID or passport and documents proving that the requirements for self-employment are met (business plan, start-up capital....

So now it is a "residency permit", not a "certificate" that certifies a Schengen right. Also if you quit or change businesses they pull your residency permit. So it's not the same as real residency.

The key seems to be finding a friendly canton.

Like you said - crap.

Anyway I'm guessing your problem was caused either by lack of formal employment, or being Eastern European - or applying before 2009.

Any of that sound right?

eurobrat · Post by **eurobrat** » May 27th, 2012, 6:42 am

OzGuy · Post by **OzGuy** » May 27th, 2012, 2:17 pm

So basically someone with an EU passport can't actually move to switzerland unless they have a job there first?

I'm actually getting quite nervous now, because the reality is starting to sink in. It is less than 3 months away! I hope I'm able to go through with it and don't chicken out. I am someone who hasn't ever really traveled, and now i'm basically moving to a place I've never been on the other side of the world. The longest i've ever been away from home is 2 weeks!

I think I will keep my return airfare just in case as a backup, that way if I really start freaking out I can still go back. If not, i'll just stay and lose the ticket.

eurobrat · Post by **eurobrat** » May 27th, 2012, 2:27 pm

eurobrat · Post by **eurobrat** » May 27th, 2012, 2:43 pm

OzGuy · Post by **OzGuy** » May 27th, 2012, 3:57 pm

You are right eurobrat, if I don't do it I'll always wonder. Better to try and fail then not try at all. However it still is scary.

I realise Switzerland is one of the most expensive countries in the world. I have a good amount of life savings to last me about 18 months without a job, even at Swiss prices. Hopefully I won't have to dip into these savings for more than a few months though, because the conversion from AUD to CHF will be painful. When I get there I will take any job I can get, even if it not in my field of IT. The quicker I start earning their currency the less ill lose of mine by converting.

Jester · Post by **Jester** » May 27th, 2012, 5:55 pm

OzGuy wrote:So basically someone with an EU passport can't actually move to switzerland unless they have a job there first?

You have a Swiss passport. The other stuff doesn't affect you.

All will go well. Other side of the world, yes, but your blood. Yo will be welcomed and feel at home.

I'm half-Armenian, didn't speak the language. But 1/2 an hour after meeting other Armenians as an adult, I was closer to them than to any Whites after knowing them a decade or more.

Common blood seems to make it easier to bond.

Have a return ticket, sure. But expect that this money will be "wasted", because you won't want to go back. That 'waste" will be worth it.

OzGuy · Post by **OzGuy** » May 27th, 2012, 8:02 pm

While I may be partial "Swiss" I still grew up in Australia in a completely different culture. Therefore to them I will just be another "foreigner". However most Europeans seem to love Australia and the people from there so this may work in my favor.

eurobrat · Post by **eurobrat** » May 27th, 2012, 10:31 pm

OzGuy · Post by **OzGuy** » May 28th, 2012, 2:12 am

I have already booked $350 worth of flights with easyjet all over Europe, because originally I wasn't going to move there sooner.

But now that i'm moving there i'm not sure if I'd enjoy the travel as much, because i'd just be worrying about what Switzerland is like, will I find a place to live, etc. However on the other hand, once I move there I will have to find work ASAP, which won't give me time to travel.

So do I

1. Cancel the fares and lose $350, flying straight to Switzerland or;
2. Travel first while I have the chance, then finally settle in Switzerland?

What would you guys do in my position?

eurobrat · Post by **eurobrat** » May 28th, 2012, 5:04 am

OzGuy · Post by **OzGuy** » May 28th, 2012, 10:41 am

Won't be partying and I don't drink either

I'll be at staying at hostels and couch surfing where possible to save some cash (and also meet some local girls haha).

So I could probably do it for about 2-3k.

Once I settle in switzerland I'm not going to have much time to travel as I'll be looking for work and then working. So I may as well give myself a break and travel Europe first. It will also allow me to check out other countries in case I ever want to live there if I don't fit into the culture in switzerland.

Jester · Post by **Jester** » May 29th, 2012, 1:11 am

eurobrat wrote:Dude don't p***y out.

What exactly are you going to miss back home? If you don't go YOU WILL regret it. Your going to become one of those old guys I run into who never traveled anywhere but talks about how he always wanted to go.

Life is short, grab your balls and get on the f***ing plane.

Geezis God I am glad I joined HappierAbroad.

xiongmao · Post by **xiongmao** » June 6th, 2012, 2:54 pm

Ah, Switzerland is full of Hedge Fund managers these days, nobody else can afford to live there. The Swiss Franc is as overvalued as the Yen.

The UK isn't too bad but it sucks if you don't have money. I guess that's the same as everywhere else.

The whole Euro-zone has always been pretty expensive, even before the Euro.