Give America a break! (rant)

[The_Adventurer]

Funny thing is this "Mystery" was the original influence on Niel Strauss who wrote the book "The Game" which apparently started from a number of PUA usenet groups and websites out there that deal in this information. It's all about lying or, as Winston says, being something you're not in order to "get in." There's something immediately wrong if you have to "neg hit" a girl or keep "busting her chops" to bring her back down to earth. That alone says all that needs to be said in my book.

...It's a short book.

[gmm567]

Yea it's an image, a persona.

[ladislav]

Thank you for the offer. These observations are my gift to society and if they are available for free, then it may not be very ethical to selll them some place else, don't you think?

Your intro is just fine by the way.

Thanks.

[The_Adventurer]

A lot of good internet business gurus will say that it doesn't matter if the very same information is available free on your own site, you should package it in an ebook and sell it. You'd be surprised how many people will pay to not have to search for it, or for the convenience of having on their computer anytime.

[jamesbond]

Funny thing is this "Mystery" was the original influence on Niel Strauss who wrote the book "The Game" which apparently started from a number of PUA usenet groups and websites out there that deal in this information. It's all about lying or, as Winston says, being something you're not in order to "get in." There's something immediately wrong if you have to "neg hit" a girl or keep "busting her chops" to bring her back down to earth. That alone says all that needs to be said in my book.

...It's a short book.

Amen! If you watch this reality tv show called "the pickup artist" you will be amazed at all you have to do JUST to maybe get a womans phone number! You have to "neg hit" her, bust her chops to bring her back to earth, demonstrate "higher value" be an "alpha male" be cocky and arrogant and humorous at the same time! All this just to maybe get a womans phone number! In addition you have to dress like a stud, walk like an "alpha male" and also memorize some pick up lines! Wow that's a lot of work to just get some phone numbers!

[Sholan]

Yep, I think I've seen this guy on Conan before, he seems like a down to earth dude but it's just the things you gotta do just to get a number like jamesbond said...

I mean you gotta have a "peacock" item like binoculars around your neck so that increases the chance of a woman asking about them and that can possibly lead to a conversation. It's really silly.

It's totally not natural at all.

[jamesbond]

Yep, I think I've seen this guy on Conan before, he seems like a down to earth dude but it's just the things you gotta do just to get a number like jamesbond said...

I mean you gotta have a "peacock" item like binoculars around your neck so that increases the chance of a woman asking about them and that can possibly lead to a conversation. It's really silly.

It's totally not natural at all.

Your right it's not natural at all! As a matter of fact, I have heard some pickup artists say these techniques DO NOT work on foreign women! They apparently only work on American women, as American women respond more favorably to them as opposed to foreign women.

[kristy_571]

Yes, America has its issues and flaws, but there's no free lunch in the world and whenever you gain some benefit, you pay for it one way or another. We have great productivity but you'll work longer and take fewer vacations. We're materially well off but people bury their heads in consumerism. But that doesn't mean you have to run the rat race for life or bury your head in bling blings.

If you work hard in the US, it's not too difficult to save some $$ and live very comfortably elsewhere (Philippines?). The trick is not to be tempted into spending all your $, or get into heavy credit card debt. If you do that, you'd lock yourself into the hamster wheel and run until you drop. In many ways we choose to be poor or fat... nobody forced us to blow our $ on xbox games, or order the all you can eat ribs instead of weight watcher selection on the menu.

I was going to post a comment on another thread, but I think I'll do it here instead. American men expect their spouse to work and take care of the home and kids at same time -- we expect them to be super-mom's. We feed the women super sized meals and expect them to stay slim. We expect them to look good but bash them whenever they want to spend some $ on cloths or shoes. eh? You know what, deep down inside, men don't really dislike buying diamond ring for their women, because they want her to wear it and show that she is "owned". Don't hate American women, pity them for the femminazi culture that's taking women-hood away from them. What's a women without women-hood? Someone who will be used for sex but not marriage.

I love you!!!!!! Thank you thank you!

[Winston]

Yep, I think I've seen this guy on Conan before, he seems like a down to earth dude but it's just the things you gotta do just to get a number like jamesbond said...

I mean you gotta have a "peacock" item like binoculars around your neck so that increases the chance of a woman asking about them and that can possibly lead to a conversation. It's really silly.

It's totally not natural at all.

W: Not only that. Even if you get a girl's number in the states, it doesn't mean that much. I have hundreds of girls' numbers in the states. But if I call them, they usually screen out the calls and send them to the voicemail, unless it's a number they recognize of one of their girlfriends. Or if they answer, they make an excuse not to meet up and keep the conversation short and say they have to go. That happened to me over 99 percent of the time when I got a girl's number.

Nowadays, American girls will give you their number cause they know they can just screen out your call later.

[jamesbond]

Yep, I think I've seen this guy on Conan before, he seems like a down to earth dude but it's just the things you gotta do just to get a number like jamesbond said...

I mean you gotta have a "peacock" item like binoculars around your neck so that increases the chance of a woman asking about them and that can possibly lead to a conversation. It's really silly.

It's totally not natural at all.

W: Not only that. Even if you get a girl's number in the states, it doesn't mean that much. I have hundreds of girls' numbers in the states. But if I call them, they usually screen out the calls and send them to the voicemail, unless it's a number they recognize of one of their girlfriends. Or if they answer, they make an excuse not to meet up and keep the conversation short and say they have to go. That happened to me over 99 percent of the time when I got a girl's number.

Nowadays, American girls will give you their number cause they know they can just screen out your call later.

Dating experts have said, for every 10 womens phone numbers you get, you will only get a date with 1 or 2 of them! It makes you wonder why the woman gave you her number to begin with! Most of the time you get her voice mail or answering machine, you leave her a message and she never calls you back! Or, you do get a hold of her and like Winston said, they make an excuse to not see you and keep the conversation short. They might say things like, "I actually already have a boyfriend" or "I just broke up with someone and don't want to start seeing anybody at this time" or "I am real busy with work or school" or my favorite, "give me your number and I will call you next week." Of course if you give them your number they will not call you back! Just how the hell are men supposed to meet women here in the US?

[Jackal]

Dating experts have said, for every 10 womens phone numbers you get, you will only get a date with 1 or 2 of them! It makes you wonder why the woman gave you her number to begin with! Most of the time you get her voice mail or answering machine, you leave her a message and she never calls you back! Or, you do get a hold of her and like Winston said, they make an excuse to not see you and keep the conversation short. They might say things like, "I actually already have a boyfriend" or "I just broke up with someone and don't want to start seeing anybody at this time" or "I am real busy with work or school" or my favorite, "give me your number and I will call you next week." Of course if you give them your number they will not call you back! Just how the hell are men supposed to meet women here in the US?

Yep, dating is a bloodsport in the USA. I think you need to impress women in way that makes them start talking to YOU (although this implies that they aren't so far out of your league that they would talk to you). It could be a small thing like giving a good presentation with confidence or dressing a certain way or having a conversation piece item. Hopefully a few of them will come up to you and say "Gee, I really enjoyed your presentation" and then you have the greenlight to engage them in the high-stakes game of small-talk (one big mistake and she'll lose interest). The whole process is as painstaking as building a house out of cards.

I think some social genius in America needs to create some new tradition that will give American men a sensible way to meet American women. Then the media could brainwash people to accept this new dating breakthrough.

The problem is that our cliques have become so restrictive that people only find a handful of people acceptable to them. We might as well just have color coded hats.

"Ooooh, a man with an aqua hat! That's my clique! Care to buy an aqua-hat girl a drink?"

Of course then people could wear a hat other than what they are. You could have a National Clique Hat Distribution Office, but people would still steal the desirable hat colors. Maybe they could have GPS transmitters in case of theft, but the thieves could remove them.

I guess this is why we just have unspoken but very real rules that define cliques. Any obvious signs would be imitated by outsiders and lose their significance for signalling.

Clique insiders feel the pressure to conform, and clique outsiders endure the mental torment of trying to figure out what to do to get in. I don't think the grass is truly green on either side of the fence. Fly away from all these nasty American fences and find your open pasture overseas.

[kristy_571]

I am sorry to hear of all the things you poor guys had to go through. But also, as a female, I myself have gotten guy's numbers, and I also got the same excuses. It can go both ways, gentlemen.

While I do agree that a woman should be truthful in telling you whether or not she is intrested, I also think that not everyone is going to be attracted to everyone. Difficulty can come in any form in any country. No matter what part of the world one can find themselves in, there will always be something to complain about. If you feel that it is best to leave the US, for your own happiness, then do what makes you happy in your own life. If things work out perfectly, great. If not, then realize that no where is perfect.

The people we truly need to be around are the ones that are drawn to us. And when it comes to the game of love, in any country, nothing is ever certain. And if you are just looking for a short term sexual affair, always be straight up and honest, and then maybe the woman might be honest back.

I can't gurantee it will work on every "chick" you meet, but you may find some hot girls that are willing to like you, for yourself.

[momopi]

When girls give out # and not date the guy, it's often because she doesn't know how to turn people down politely and don't want to be rude. Same thing when they break up with you, the inexperienced (or "fail to learn" ) ones try to give you a "mercy killing" with some cliche line about how it's her and not you. The experienced ones know how to tell you that it's not going to work out and still remain friends with you.

A lot of times girls feel intimated with first dates. It's easier if you invite them to some activity, or a small group activity. Tell her that you'd bring some guys and ask her to bring some girls. Then if you don't hit it off with her, maybe you'd befriend one of her single friends. However, be warned that you have to be mature enough to handle dating within an extended social circle, because you might see your friends dating your ex.

I started dating a girl from work after inviting her to a fishing trip. It was an "initial success' that turned sour -- she's a hardcore religious person who believes in predestination (God planned everything!), and I'm the type who believes that God gave you 2 hands to fix your own problems. Having your ex-GF sit next to you at work for several months, is one good reason to not date anyone from work at all to start with.

[WorldTraveler]

Dear Momopi,


It is the many dull, insipid, humorless, xenophobic aspects of US life including the fact that it is hard to talk to strangers ( because of the British heritage) that makes life miserable for quite a few people. These people should go abroad and add another country to America.


I personally hate the racial segregation here and the big deal people give to race/nationality.I do not like the fact that you cannot meet people on buses/ subways so easily. And I do not like the fact that there are not that many attractive women for so many attractive men. As compared to say Russia, Brazil, Philippines, Thailand, VN etc.

Also, this site is for those who are not really succeeding in the US social life, not for those who do. If some think America is great socially, then more power to them. For all others, there is this site.

I agree! The social conditions here in the US for single men is horrible! It's the only country in the world where seminars are being held for thousands of dollars teaching men how to "pick up" women! In addition to all the books and dvd's that teach men "how to approach women" " how to ask a women for her phone number" "how to meet women in bars and clubs."

- Jamesbond

I have to comment on both of your statements. You are both so right. US is a very hard country to meet people. People drive around in their cars alone so never have to come in contact w/ others.
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One big thing that has killed socializing and meeting people is the cell phone and to a lesser extent iPods. As soon as someone is out alone, they call someone one the phone to talk. God forbid you try to talk to them. In the old days, in communal places, you could actually approach someon and talk to them. Now they are busy.
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Even when you are out people are terrified to do something w/ a stranger. In many of these other countries, you can meet a girl, go out immediately or later that day. This goes back to women wanting men in their life in these countries.
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Yes James Bond, where else would people pay thousands of dollars to take seminars to learn how to pick up girls. These are the same seminars that were being sold for $25 10 years earlier. What that does show is how much the desperation level has increased in 10 years.

[WorldTraveler]

I want to commend momopi on his eloquent discussion on US, international, racism, history, etc. I agree with most of it.
The US is hardly the worse place to live. To make a living it is a great place to live. That is why so many foreigners are moving to the USA. Also freedoms and low level of racism is better here than in most countries.
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It is also not the worse place for dating either, much to most of your amazements. Eleven years ago, I lived and worked in Italy and found it worse. Italy is a closed culture, not open like the US. All of the products are made in Italy. 90% of the cars they drive there are Italian. On and on. Nothing is easy to take care of in Italy. Stores & banks close for ½ day, crazy schedules where restaurants are closed for the whole months. Gas pumps locked on the weekends. America is geared for ease of life.
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The Italian girls have no interest in dating a guy from another country. Even the guys that I hung out w/ who were professional, drove Alpha Rameos, couldn’t get girls to want to be their girl friends. I finally saw this and went back to the USA. When I got back, I wanted to get down and kiss the ground. This also took away my interest wanting to live overseas again for many years. All because I had ended up in the wrong country. At the time I almost went to Mexico City so I may had been a rock star there. So the place is everything.
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I have friends that have lived in Western Europe and it has not been a paradise either. Maybe better than the US but not enough to keep them over there.
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Winston states frequently that Western Europeans are so worldly. I disagree based on my living there and my friends living there. The Italian professional guys I worked with, many had never been the 2 ½ hours to France. My friend who lived in Switzerland found that most people were the same there too. He couldn’t get locals to want to travel anywhere with him, so he saw most of Europe alone. The average Brit takes their vacation to the beach and hardly ever does educational travel.
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US also kills desire for travel by giving the less vacation days of any country. They constantly push the material culture, so no vacation and money, so buy a big house or expensive car.
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Yes, I don’t feel that there are many interesting conversations with the Average American, but probably not with the average anyone from any culture.
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The average W. European is like the average American, clueless about anything except what is right in front of them.
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Americans have ruined themselves intellectually by being so star struck. They have an obsession w/ what are the famous people doing. Italy was really into this too.