Is it a waste of time to be just friends with a girl?

[All_That_Is_Man]

It's a waste of time... If you are a single guy why spend time and the emotional commitment needed to maintain a friendship on a woman that considers you a friend? Hate to be the devil's advocate but isn't it time better spent getting into shape and finding a girlfriend? IF you are successful finding a nice girlfriend and you THEN have time to find a female friend then go for it. But for a single guy, it's first things first. Find a female friend would be very low on the totem pole. Just my two cents worth Winston.

Pete nailed it. Being friends with a woman is a complete and utter waste of life, unless you are getting p***y on a regular basis from a (hopefully foreign) steady girlfriend. Period.

[Teal Lantern]

Hi all,
I have a question I'm curious about. Many macho chauvinist guys I know, such as Brad Sharp who used to be a moderator here, consider it a complete waste of time and degrading to be "just friends" with a girl. In their book, if there's no intimacy, physical contact, or sex with a woman, then she is a waste of time to them.

Many guys I've met are like that.

Do you agree with them?
For their motives, this is basically true.

Is it really not worth it for a male and female to just be friends, even if they have things in common and enjoy each other's company?
It depends on what your time is worth. I learned a lot while being in the "friend zone".

Do most guys think like that?

Could it be that deep down, it's sort of an insult for a girl to just like him as a friend, and so every time he goes out with her just as a friend, he feels humiliated and shamed about his manhood? Is that the deeper issue behind this? It can be confusing, annoying, etc, when you're young & less experienced. It feels like you're being 'passed over'.

As for me, I'm kind of divided on this. I definitely do enjoy the company of girls in general, even if they're just friends. But I won't go out of my way to spend time and money to hang out with a girl who only wants to be friends and nothing more. If they're "just friends", they should be paying their own way; otherwise, they're parasites.

What about you guys?
Personally, if a girl wants to be "just friends", fine. But she will NEVER, EVER, EVER be allowed to jump from the 'friend zone' ladder over to the 'love interest' ladder. Many females will try this jump, once they see that some other woman views you as more than "just friends". They will feign a more personal interest in you or cast aspersions on the girlfriend. When she pulls this stunt, do not hesitate to bump her down, off the ladder of 'just friends' and into the hole of 'Bye, have a nice life'.

[Winston]

It's not realistic to think that every girl you meet/befriend would want to sleep with you. If that makes the guy feel humiliated, then he's got issues.

Is it worth it to befriend someone? Only you can answer that question for yourself. Others don't define what you think a "friend" should or shouldn't be.

This is true and makes sense. It really depends on what you are getting out of the friendship. If she is helping you in some way or helping you meet other girls, or you are learning something from her, or she is just fun to be around, then she might be worth seeing as a friend. But if she is boring and just takes up your time and money, then what's the point? lol

But doesn't that apply to male friends too? I mean, if a guy was boring and a waste of time and money to be around, why would you remain friends with him either?

Why are male friends valuable but female friends aren't?

So it all depends. There is no black and white answer.

Also, if you are in a situation where you have zero female companionship, then I guess having a female friend is better than nothing, esp if she is decent looking.

For some reason, us males like to categorize things, whereas females prefer to say "it depends on the person and who you meet". lol

[Winston]

Guys,
Ok I don't get something. How is a friend any less just because she's a female? I mean, if there's no basis for a friendship, what does it matter if the person is male or female? On the other hand, if there is a basis for a friendship, then why does it matter if the friend is male or female? I don't understand the bias here.

Is it because somehow it feels like a "failure" if you are just friends with a girl?

What if you have to start off as friends with her, like is the common norm in Asia?

[Teal Lantern]

Guys,
Ok I don't get something.
Here we go...

How is a friend any less just because she's a female?
Try moving furniture with one.

I mean, if there's no basis for a friendship, what does it matter if the person is male or female?
Most men can immediately think of another use for such a woman.

On the other hand, if there is a basis for a friendship, then why does it matter if the friend is male or female? I don't understand the bias here.
See above.

Is it because somehow it feels like a "failure" if you are just friends with a girl?
A lot of guys feel the presence of a female friend makes other girls think he's taken. That makes her a liability.

What if you have to start off as friends with her, like is the common norm in Asia?
When in Asia, do as the Asians do. But notice your own words: "start off as friends". You don't say "start off as friends" for males, which means with regard to females, "friends" is potentially an opening move to something else, and in Asia will be taken that way.

[polya]

"What if you have to start off as friends with her, like is the common norm in Asia?"

Then you need to be in a group of friends, not just on your own. However, girls will probably string you along and get money off you and then say "NO WAY" to a relationship.

[Winston]

Guys,
Ok I don't get something.
Here we go...

How is a friend any less just because she's a female?
Try moving furniture with one.

I mean, if there's no basis for a friendship, what does it matter if the person is male or female?
Most men can immediately think of another use for such a woman.

On the other hand, if there is a basis for a friendship, then why does it matter if the friend is male or female? I don't understand the bias here.
See above.

Is it because somehow it feels like a "failure" if you are just friends with a girl?
A lot of guys feel the presence of a female friend makes other girls think he's taken. That makes her a liability.

What if you have to start off as friends with her, like is the common norm in Asia?
When in Asia, do as the Asians do. But notice your own words: "start off as friends". You don't say "start off as friends" for males, which means with regard to females, "friends" is potentially an opening move to something else, and in Asia will be taken that way.

I don't understand your response. Why is a female friend any less or useless than a male friend? Can you elaborate? Isn't that sort of discrimination? A basis for a friendship is still a basis, regardless if it's a male or female.

Most of my female friends don't use me to pay for them. But sometimes I enjoy paying for a female, if I like her that is and think she's worth treating.

A female friend isn't a liability. If other women think that you are taken, then they may be less guarded around you. I find that sometimes it's easier to meet other girls if you are with a girl, because female strangers may be more receptive to you and her, rather than just you.

I think you are right about the last part. It does seem that in Asia, being "friends" with a girl is seen as a precursor to a possible relationship. This is evidenced by the fact that a lot of Asian girls, esp in NE Asia, will not even go out with a guy as "friends" if she does not seem him as a potential partner. American women have a similar mentality in that they will not go out with a guy if he is not her type, not even as friends, because of the connotation of being seen with a guy.

[royaldude]

really, are you really debating having female friends. is this even up for discussion. come on of course not. how many women do you know with a sense of humor, have traveled extensively or are even interesting to talk to. let me answer that; they are fat and or ugly and the reason they developed a sense of humor or inteligence is because they know there lack of beauty means they need to bring something to the table. i dont enjoy being around men that arent interesting or at least funny, and i put up with women if they are attractive but i never look at them as friends. maybe i can use them to make other girls jealous but i always have to worry about offending them where with guys unless i say something maybe racist or too politically charged no worries

[Winston]

really, are you really debating having female friends. is this even up for discussion. come on of course not. how many women do you know with a sense of humor, have traveled extensively or are even interesting to talk to. let me answer that; they are fat and or ugly and the reason they developed a sense of humor or inteligence is because they know there lack of beauty means they need to bring something to the table. i dont enjoy being around men that arent interesting or at least funny, and i put up with women if they are attractive but i never look at them as friends. maybe i can use them to make other girls jealous but i always have to worry about offending them where with guys unless i say something maybe racist or too politically charged no worries

I'm not debating anything. I'm just wondering what the logic is behind the notion that female friends are a waste of time or are in any way less than male friends. This issue shouldn't be black or white anyway. I actually enjoy female company, so I don't see why they are not valuable as friends.

Question for you guys: Given a choice between zero female companionship and having some female friends (who don't leech off you), which would you prefer?

[royaldude]

look winston women can bring femenity to the table which is something men cannot get from other men. i think they can be great listeners but friends that another matter. well maybe i should elaborate, for me and most people you are only ever gonna have 5 or less close friends. now acquatances that is different. i have lots of them both male and female. but close friends are always gonna be male. you want people that are like you to be friends with generally speaking and having a vagina is too diferent for me to understand.

[Teal Lantern]

really, are you really debating having female friends. is this even up for discussion. come on of course not. how many women do you know with a sense of humor, have traveled extensively or are even interesting to talk to. let me answer that; they are fat and or ugly and the reason they developed a sense of humor or inteligence is because they know there lack of beauty means they need to bring something to the table. i dont enjoy being around men that arent interesting or at least funny, and i put up with women if they are attractive but i never look at them as friends. maybe i can use them to make other girls jealous but i always have to worry about offending them where with guys unless i say something maybe racist or too politically charged no worries

I'm not debating anything. I'm just wondering what the logic is behind the notion that female friends are a waste of time or are in any way less than male friends. This issue shouldn't be black or white anyway. I actually enjoy female company, so I don't see why they are not valuable as friends.

Question for you guys: Given a choice between zero female companionship and having some female friends (who don't leech off you), which would you prefer?

For all your traveling and meeting women, you still ask such questions.

I actually enjoy female company, so I don't see why they are not valuable as friends.

You trying to be Tom Vu You don't see it because you don't want to see it.
If you enjoy female company then to you they are worth being "just friends" with.
Not every other man feels that way.

If you live in a culture where most permanent relationships develop from a "friends first" stance, then your female "friends" can and will interfere with you trying to get with a woman you actually want.
Your female "friends" consider themselves to have "first right of refusal" to a relationship with you -- they were friends with you first, before the new girl.
Your female "friends" will tell other women, behind your back, that the two of you are dating. The girl you were trying to get with will suddenly lose interest because she thinks you're a two-timing jerk, but you'll be clueless as to what happened. One of your female "just friends" happened.

Rather than go through all that cloak-and-dagger B.S., most guys who know better simply don't bother trying to be "friends" with them.

[C.J.]

Girls are a waste of time being friends with, if all you want is sex from them. But I've had great female friends who I didn't f**k. The problem is getting over your "crush" on them and seeing what's going on.

[Jester]

really, are you really debating having female friends. is this even up for discussion. come on of course not. how many women do you know with a sense of humor, have traveled extensively or are even interesting to talk to. let me answer that; they are fat and or ugly and the reason they developed a sense of humor or inteligence is because they know there lack of beauty means they need to bring something to the table. i dont enjoy being around men that arent interesting or at least funny, and i put up with women if they are attractive but i never look at them as friends. maybe i can use them to make other girls jealous but i always have to worry about offending them where with guys unless i say something maybe racist or too politically charged no worries

Exactly right. They are not here to be our friends, they are here to serve us and be used by us. They know that, which is why they friend-zone guys who are not dominating them.

Believe me a 50 plus year old guy with a belly and a limp can turn every female head in the room from age 19 to 45 when he walks in with a hot young 25 year old. Yes, that shit really works. Especially if you're not that into her.

[Billy]

no you can´t be friends as they have totally different goals in life. they can´t understand the male mind. and if they could understand it, it would be of no interest for her. let´s get real here. don´t let us lie to ourselves. they have their evolutionary projects and we have ours.

[PeterAndrewNolan]

Question for you guys: Given a choice between zero female companionship and having some female friends (who don't leech off you), which would you prefer?

Winston...Jennifer called me her "best friend" for more than 20 years. Would a MAN who was your BEST FRIEND ever betray you like she did me? No...would not happen. And virtually ALL other western women condone such betrayal.

My fav#3 and I were GREAT friends. One time? She had to go home to the czech republic for the holiday break....she had her problems and she was upset about that...I flew into frankfurt just to make sure I spent the day with her before she went......as we were talking about this she just burst into tears and hugged me and cried on my shoulder for a good 20 minutes......I put her to bed and stroked her head and comforted her. She spent over an hour asleep. After she woke up she was feeling very much better and thanked me for being there for her. I asked her "Do you not realise I flew in for exactly this? I felt you might be very distressed and I wanted to be there for you before you went home."

She was shocked I would do that for her.....I was also going to visit friends and have a week off but I made sure I dropped by her place because I knew this would be the case.....she often talked about how no man ever treated her so well as me...even though I was also alphaing her....

But in the end......when she found her prospective husband I presume....she just cut me off and moved on.....this is NORMAL for women. No matter HOW MUCH you do for them they do not see they owe you anything....certainly not help in need....and that is what friends are...they help you in need....

Any man who is expecting a woman to be a friend like a man is a friend is dreaming...it simply does not happen in the west any more...even when I had slipped disks in my back it was too much trouble for my wife to feed me or bring me water until I berated her over it.....but when that happened a few years ago here in Germany? My mate came by with all the food and medicine I needed...he dropped by each second day to see how I was getting along.....he is certainly a better friend than my wife was.

You can only be real friends with men.....that is just how it is....women do not offer friendship as part of the package....they off the lie of "pretend friend"....even the best of them....and that from a man who tried his best to be "friends" with women from 12 to 46. I know what I am talking about.