winston, i've read your story about your life, your pain and your "ex-belief" in christianity (source: http://www.successfulschizophrenia.org/stories/wwu.html).
i am a christian, and i know about the bible quite a bit... You said multiple times that those children in africa, how do they get saved if they haven't been
given the gospel, well, when they die, God may apply his son's sacrifice to them...disabled people that don't have a concious, God applies Jesus's sacrifice on
the cross to them as it wouldn't be rightious if he did not... Everyone who has concious has no excuse, your concious points you to God. When God struck down
David's son because of his adultery, David knew his son went to heaven, anyone who hasn't got a developed concious, God will apply the sacrifice to them,so they
get heaven, that's one possibility, you questioned God and your belief in Christianity, you wanted to know all the answers, but did you take into account what i said above,
did that ever come across your mind? Man, like the bible says, wants to know all the answers, hence be like God, that's why you were asking so many questions in your
struggle... Man looks at the outward appearance,God looks at the heart,he knows weather you are truely saved or not... i read your story, you produced the fruits of the spirit
(studying bible,prayer,giving out gospel), you were doing the works of the christian faith, but the question is, did you truely believe in the heart, you were putting to much emphasis
on earing your way to heaven, belief in heart alone is what is needed... i've suffered what you've suffered, i didn't have the will to read the bible, to do the works, but i never questioned
my beliefs in Christianity,even though i was a wreck, it could be that im different, that i truely believe in the heart where as you didn't, you thought it was about works, and your questioning the Christianity during your struggles in my mind, proved that you didnt truely believe in the heart...I don't know your salvation,only God does as he sees the heart,weather you truely believe or not...i think you placed to much emphasis on works and failed to believe truely in the heart which is why you left Christianity,i know people who have believed truely in the heart that the bible is true for years upon years and they went through bad times like you,but just didn't bother to question their beliefs,and accepted that they have nothing to offer to God/works can't keep them in line with God,but Belief truely in the heart.....that's where you went wrong in my honest opinion... Once saved always saved,belief truely in the heart,hence it means you don't question the bible,because you truely believe in the heart... I notice you place a lot of importance of works and self in your webpage above... So i hope you take into account what i've written hear... email me back if you wish... i was led by the spirit to write this, because I see a bit of myself in you,but the difference is, i don't question my beliefs..
My response to him:
Wow you sound really brainwashed. There is no logical reason to believe any of that. I transcended those beliefs long ago. You just assume that they are all true.
Please see my links below:
Debunking Christian Circular Arguments and Assumptions (www.debunkingskeptics.com/DebunkingChristians/Contents.htm) This major treatise presents and debunks virtually every major argument by Christian Evangelists and Apologists such as Josh McDowell and C.S. Lewis, point-by-point from every angle, with scholarly quotations and citations. It also includes shocking facts about the Bible and its evolution that most Christians don't know.
Summary of Christian Circular Arguments and Assumptions Debunked (http://www.debunkingskeptics.com/DebunkingChristians/Page36.htm) A shorter version of the major treatise above which summarizes the standard Christian circular arguments and unsupported assumptions, and debunks each one point-by-point, showing them for what they are - an attempt to use fiction to support fiction.
My Summary Response to Two Christian Missionaries (http://www.debunkingskeptics.com/Response_Christian_Missionaries.htm) Though well-spoken, passionate and articulate, these two Christian missionaries had their bottom-line arguments checkmated from every angle here in this summary outline. It was written and presented to them after hours of friendly discussion. They had no response or comeback to it.
Christianity's Irresolvable Problems, Circular Reasoning and Lack of Foundational Basis (http://www.debunkingskeptics.com/Christian_Problems.htm) Simple and matter of fact coreproblems with Christianity that are irrefutable and unexplainable. Will make any Christians dumbfounded and speechless, or defensive and in denial.
Why Christianity is Tyrannical and Anti-Freedom (http://www.debunkingskeptics.com/DebunkingChristians/Page31.htm) Basic logic in this short essay points to the obvious - that nothing in the Bible or Christian doctrine supports freedom, free choice, liberty or reason, only total tyranny and fascism. Therefore, true Christians must technically be anti-freedom and in favor of total tyranny, which may come as a shock to Christians.
My Rise to Christianity and Transcendence From It (http://www.debunkingskeptics.com/Christian_Story.htm) A touching personal story of a turbulent deconversion from Christian fundamentalism. It is a must read, as both Christians and non-Christians have found it touching and inspiring. No one has regretted reading it.
His next response:
What about the Jews recapturing Palestine in 1948? prophecy in Ezkiel, that the jews would return to their homeland after the scattering of them, it came true.. The Qu'ran doesn't have a prophecy as strong as that... Plus,you can't deny, all humans are evil,we have all been selfish hence done wrong hence done evil, look at history,war after war, it shows humans are ultimately sinful and is CONFIRMED in the bible, 'the human heart is desperatly wicked'...what's your comeback to that? everything is going great for you now,you're laugh at your former beliefs because of your arrogance,it's your pride,i can see it from here,you sound very arrogant,no wonder,i read your story,and it was all about "what can i get from God", the Christian life is about longsuffering as well, hence the true believers can be rewarded the "crown of longsuffering"... Go here www.youtube.com/proclaimhisword & www.youtube.com/excatholics if you want to return to truth.. Im not brainwashed,like i said,you cant deny,on the whole,humans are evil,like bible says,my reasons for believing are the fulfilled prophecies in bible and the way it talks about the human heart,the wickedness of the world is too great,only bible gives the answer.
My next response:
Most people are good, or a mixture of good and evil, it's only a few people in power that are truly evil and sociopaths. You are basing that view on the Bible. Most people are good but selfish and greedy yes, but so what? We all need to survive. Who isn't selfish? Our society is what's evil because it's enslaving us. People are not black and white. Good and evil are fictional categories. Reality is more complicated than that.
Prophecies? The fig tree sprouting could mean anything. It doesn't mean the Jews recapturing Palestine. A lot of verses that were not even prophecies were claimed as prophecies, and some prophecies didn't come true. The OT never predicted Jesus. It predicted a national savior who would restore Israel, thus Jesus didn't fulfill the OT prophecies. Nothing is what you assume it is.
See my webpage on Bible prophecies here. It addresses all the points:
Also see these points I wrote up to 2 Christian Missionaries I talked to, who had no response to them:
Let me ask you this. If the Bible didn't promise you eternal life, would you still serve God, even though he's a dictator who basically said "Obey or die!"?
The Gnostics said that Jesus came to liberate people from the God of the Bible, because he was a tyrant who deceived many and wasn't a good person. You believe the Bible is perfect because you were told that it was so. You forget that words in a book aren't proof. I used to believe what you believe and I understand you. Once you are no longer brainwashed, you can see things clearly.
I dare you to read this:
Christianity's Irresolvable Problems, Circular Reasoning and Lack of Foundational Basis http://www.debunkingskeptics.com/Christian_Problems.htm
Last edited by Winston on Tue Sep 18, 2012 9:28 pm; edited 1 time in total
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