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Are you willing to die to save your child?

Discuss deep philosophical issues and questions.

Moderators: zboy1, fschmidt, jamesbond

Would you be willing to die to save your child?

Yes I would.
8
73%
No I wouldn't.
2
18%
I'm not sure, or I don't want to think about this hypothetical situation.
1
9%
 
Total votes : 11

Are you willing to die to save your child?

Postby Winston » Thu Oct 20, 2011 12:18 pm

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When I was in Palawan, my friend and Dianne was shocked to hear that I would not be willing to die to save my child. I responded by saying that I was shocked that they were willing to.

So I was wondering, how many of you would be willing to die to save your child? Seriously? See the poll above.

I think most people say that they would. It has become a cliche almost to say, "I wouldn't hesitate to give up my life to save my children. They are everything to me. They are my reason for living. I would die to save them."

Now, I don't understand the logic behind this. Why is valuing someone else's life ABOVE yours considered a good thing or an act of love? Why should I love someone else more than myself? Why not love someone else equally as much as myself? Why do people think that true love means being willing to die for another? Who came up with this strange idea? Is it natural or programmed?

Remember, your child is technically another person. He/she is not you. If you die, your consciousness and awareness does not continue in your child. He is another separate sentient being, separate from you. So why do people treat their child's life as if it were equal to or of higher value than their own, since the child is a separate consciousness?

Also, shouldn't your child be the one willing to give up his/her life for you? I mean, YOU gave him/her life. He/she did NOT give you life. Therefore, your child OWES YOU his/her life. You do NOT owe your child your life, only your support. So doesn't society have it BACKWARDS?

So what if I do not value my child's life above mine? Does that mean that there's something wrong with me? Am I obligated to change my values and beliefs, just because society says so? How can I believe something I don't, simply because society or other people say so?

Dianne said that the reason she would die to save our son is because she has lived longer than him, and he hasn't experienced the world yet. I don't think that's a good reason. So what if someone is younger than you? That doesn't make his/her life more valuable than yours. Would you die to save the life of a beggar child on the street who is younger than you? It would be foolish to do so.

Nature is cruel, cold and heartless. It has no morals. It does not believe in a "sanctity of life". Even in the peaceful forest, there is violence everywhere, as ants and insects and animals are killing each other for survival. All life is vampiric in that it takes energy from other life in order to survive. We all have to protect, preserve and better ourselves, in order to survive and prosper. Being selfish is not a bad thing if it helps you survive. Helping others is not a bad thing either. But there is no logic in being willing to die or let yourself be killed to save someone else. That's taking it too far and seems like a human created virtue/value.

Don't forget to vote above.
Last edited by Winston on Thu Oct 20, 2011 4:58 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Postby swincor » Thu Oct 20, 2011 1:26 pm

You have to understand, Winston: you're just all wrong for fatherhood. The idea of you as a parent is a joke.

Asking a question like this shows how totally out of your league you were having a kid. Serious people don't ask such questions, or they would have considered them BEFORE getting a girl pregnant. That's the lesson all guys here should take from this.

And anyway, you don't have anything to worry about: you're in Taiwan living the bachelor life away from Dianne and your kid. You have a lifestyle most divorced American men with kids can only dream of having.
Last edited by swincor on Thu Oct 20, 2011 4:07 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Postby Adama » Thu Oct 20, 2011 2:50 pm

All I can say is, OMG. Winston, you wonder why you get it? Not that it is ever really justified. But after making that OP, don't ever wonder why again. That is why. I always wondered why myself. Was it jealousy? Losers making fun of you to feel better about their situation? It certainly could be a combination of things, but you really bring it on yourself.
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Postby Winston » Thu Oct 20, 2011 4:39 pm

Adama wrote:All I can say is, OMG. Winston, you wonder why you get it? Not that it is ever really justified. But after making that OP, don't ever wonder why again. That is why. I always wondered why myself. Was it jealousy? Losers making fun of you to feel better about their situation? It certainly could be a combination of things, but you really bring it on yourself.


Why? What's wrong with asking questions? I'm trying to understand human logic or illogic here.

Why don't you address the question instead of attacking the messenger? Or evaluate the points made? Why can't you be logical rather than emotional?
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Postby Adama » Thu Oct 20, 2011 6:57 pm

Winston wrote:
Adama wrote:All I can say is, OMG. Winston, you wonder why you get it? Not that it is ever really justified. But after making that OP, don't ever wonder why again. That is why. I always wondered why myself. Was it jealousy? Losers making fun of you to feel better about their situation? It certainly could be a combination of things, but you really bring it on yourself.


Why? What's wrong with asking questions? I'm trying to understand human logic or illogic here.

Why don't you address the question instead of attacking the messenger? Or evaluate the points made? Why can't you be logical rather than emotional?

I'm not attacking you, Winston. Your life is up to you, and I am not here to condemn you. My point was more educational for your other concerns. If you ever wonder why those people attack you (I sometimes did until recently), this is one more reason why they do. It's like you are giving your hecklers streams of ammo. Ordinarily whether or not someone likes you shouldnt matter though.

As for answering your question, it is apparent that you have no real *emotional* attachment to your son. Of course you feel the way you do. Most other people form some kind of bond with their children and would like to have them live on to succeed in life.

Listen, Wwu. I am not going to sit here and bat back and forth with you, cause it just isnt interesting enough for me to do so. That was just my two cents. I am moving on from this topic now.
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Postby Winston » Thu Oct 20, 2011 7:45 pm

Perhaps Adama. However, did you understand my point? Even if I had a strong emotional attachment and loved my son a lot, why should I be willing to give up my life to save his, which is what most parents say they would do? What's the logic behind it? Shouldn't it be the other way around, for the reasons I listed above? What's the logic in the cliche? Why do I have to be willing to die someone in order to truly love them? Why can't I love myself too? Or both equally? Why do I have to love myself less in order to truly love someone else? What's the logic behind that?

Those are the key questions. Did you understand them?
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Postby davewe » Thu Oct 20, 2011 8:00 pm

This is not an issue you can dissect with logic, nor is it something society told you you must do. You either feel it deeply or you don't.

OTOH, perhaps an alternative poll question would be in order: "Are you willing to die to save your bargirl?"

Sorry, I couldn't help it!
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Postby swincor » Thu Oct 20, 2011 9:17 pm

Winston wrote:Perhaps Adama. However, did you understand my point? Even if I had a strong emotional attachment and loved my son a lot, why should I be willing to give up my life to save his, which is what most parents say they would do? What's the logic behind it? Shouldn't it be the other way around, for the reasons I listed above? What's the logic in the cliche? Why do I have to be willing to die someone in order to truly love them? Why can't I love myself too? Or both equally? Why do I have to love myself less in order to truly love someone else? What's the logic behind that?

Those are the key questions. Did you understand them?



Do you ever listen? Or are you this thick in the head? (actually, I just answered the question right there.)

Look, you fat Chinese: you f***ed up by having a kid -- get it? If you had been truly serious about parenthood, you wouldn't even think of asking such a stupid, immature, childish question. But we all know you are not a serious person. So who really gives a f**k that you won't die for your kid? f**k both of you, for all I care.

Read my first response above again. Bottom line: you never should have had a kid in the first place. Now that you have one, it's your problem to grapple with. Don't expect others to do the hard thinking for you. Because then they'd be idiots like you.
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I

Postby ErikHeaven » Thu Oct 20, 2011 9:51 pm

I literally cried watching that video with the Chinese baby ran over by 2 trucks. Not sobbing yet i shed a few tears. I would give every drop of my own blood to save my 9 year old daughters life. That is the job of a parent. That is just me and i will not comment anymore on this topic.
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Postby magnum » Thu Oct 20, 2011 10:22 pm

I would die to save someone I didn't know.


So yes, I would.
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Postby Winston » Fri Oct 21, 2011 8:19 am

You guys sound brainwashed, and totally emotional, not logical.

Consider the following points.

If you lose a child, you can have another child to replace him/her. But you can't replace yourself.

A child's life by default is not more valuable than an adult's.

If JFK or Bruce Lee had given up their lives for their son, it would have been a bad trade, since their children never changed the world or achieved legendary status, or matched up to their accomplishments, but merely rode on the benefits of their father's name. Wouldn't you agree?

And if Buddha had given up his life for his son, there would be no Buddhism today, as his son merely lived a normal life. Would that have been worth it? Wouldn't that have been a bad trade?

A child's life is not by default more valuable than an adult's. Are you sure you aren't brainwashed to believe that by society?

Question for you. Would you give your life to save the life of a child who was not your own? How about a child beggar who was malnourished, dumb and uneducated?

If not, why not? You believe that children are more valuable than adults right?
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Re: I

Postby Winston » Fri Oct 21, 2011 8:27 am

ErikHeaven wrote:I literally cried watching that video with the Chinese baby ran over by 2 trucks. Not sobbing yet i shed a few tears. I would give every drop of my own blood to save my 9 year old daughters life. That is the job of a parent. That is just me and i will not comment anymore on this topic.


Which video was this? Why was the baby run over by trucks?

Let me ask you this. Would you have cried if an adult had been run over by a truck? If not, why not?

Isn't every human life precious?

Would you give your life to save the life of a child you didn't know, or who was going to accomplish nothing?

The job of a parent is to raise their child, not give up their life for it. Parents do not owe children their lives. Children owe their parents their lives, since they gave them life. Your children did not give you life. They are a product of nature. Why do you believe that you owe them your life? This is not logical. It's pure emotional and subjective.

One more question for you all:

If your wife was pregnant and the doctor told you that having the child would kill the mother, what would you do? Wouldn't most couples agree to have an abortion to save the life of the mother? If so, why? I thought children were always more valuable than adults, are they not? Even countries that outlaw abortion make an exception in this case. What would you do in this situation?

If you would abort the fetus in this case, then why would you do that, yet if the baby is born, you'd gladly give your life to save it? Isn't that a contradiction?
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Postby odbo » Fri Oct 21, 2011 8:38 am

Winston wrote:You guys sound brainwashed, and totally emotional, not logical.

Its nature. A mother protects her young. A man protects his tribe. Everyone grows older, but not everyone becomes a man. You'll never know what it means to be a man so you can stop asking these questions.
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Postby Repatriate » Fri Oct 21, 2011 9:58 am

This is a hilarious topic and further reinforces my theory that Winston has Narcissistic personality disorder. This is the type of question and total lack of empathy that people with NPD display. Psychopaths also have similar problems with empathy but I don't believe Winston is that messed up.

To answer your question Winston..human society is built on sacrifice. People naturally sacrifice for their young so that they can have a better life, etc.. Each generation tries to make the next one a little better. That's how progress works. That's how civilizations are built. There are great men who started projects that would not benefit their lives in the least but hoped it would benefit the world, nation, or community they put their effort into. If each generation was only interested in their own comfort and livelihood then you would have a rapid decay of society.

No matter what you believe, your interests do not exist in a bubble. When you are old and infirm just don't be surprised if your son shows you the same disregard and complete disinterest you are showing him now. I have a feeling that your negative influence will shape his feelings about other people as well.
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Re: I

Postby swincor » Fri Oct 21, 2011 10:56 am

Winston wrote:The job of a parent is to raise their child, not give up their life for it.



LOL Can you imagine? This "father" is actually telling us what a parent's job is! :lol: You really should consider a second career as a stand-up comedian, Winston.

Dear Wu: what exactly does "raise their child" mean? And for what end? Or do you even understand what you're saying?

And why must parents "raise their child" if they can choose to bail when the child needs them most?

You really had no clue what you were getting into when you got Dianne pregnant -- FAIL.

You are without a doubt so out of your league, totally unqualified to ask serious questions concerning children and parenthood. Just give up your kid to Dianne and screw some more whores -- that way, you're not placing yourself in a position where you'd have to die for your kid. Plus, you'd be more honest with yourself and to others. What a joke you are.
Last edited by swincor on Fri Oct 21, 2011 3:47 pm, edited 3 times in total.
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