Winston wrote:

Davewe,
There's something else we forgot to consider - Evolutionary Biology. As we've discussed here before, women are hardwired NOT to have casual sex too freely because if they have many children without fathers, then they will be screwed. So for survival's sake, they are hardwired to be more choosy than men about who they have sex with. Thus the argument from evolutionary biology, which says that women are NOT hardwired for casual sex, is a very big argument AGAINST your claim that most women like casual sex (one night stands, flings, etc.)

So in summary, two big arguments go against your argument:

1. The argument from evolutionary biology that women are not hardwired for casual sex.
2. The fact that every female profile on dating sites (such as POF) says that they are not looking for intimate encounters or casual sex outside of relationships.

Those are two biggies. What are your arguments to the contrary?

I think we can logically conclude that women are not actively or consciously looking for casual sex, though they can be tempted into it of course. And of course, we all know that women are far MORE choosy and picky about who they have sex with, than men are. They are far more inhibited and usually require love and commitment first before they will give a man sex, in accord with their hardwiring. Of course, some women do have casual sex. But either way, getting casual sex for a man is NOT easy (except for hoes and really poor or desperate women of course). I'm sure we can all agree on that.

Any dispute with the above Davewe?

Argument # 2 I would reject because to quote House "everyone lies." I consider myself to be a fairly honest straightforward person but even I fudged on my dating profile a bit. So I assume that a woman who says on POF that she wants marriage or a committed relationship is usually open to casual sex with the right person and the right circumstances.

But it's an interesting subject. After all if a woman has only had casual sex with one man in her life we might consider her pruddish; if she's had casual sex with 100 men we consider her a whore. So again, back to the definition of what is a woman who likes casual sex?

As to point #1, this is even more interesting to me. I am certainly no evolutionary biologist but I have a buddy who did study it thoroughly and has some interesting theories. In a tiny nutshell (cause he has written lots about it) he says traditional monogamy is about property. Women way back when were just as promisculous as men. They were biologically driven to obtain as much seed as possible and the competing sperm literally duked it out to see which would fertilize the egg.

Do you know why in most cultures the oldest child inherits the property and titles? Because that was the child most likely to have the husband's DNA. The powerful man married a young virgin, and impregnetted her early. But by kid #2 he no longer could know who's child it was. So many cultures evolved to insist on virginity and monogamy, not because they are women's nature, but in order for the man to be ensured that his line would continue at least via the first child. It's an interesting theory and I have only scratched the surface. My friend believes that women are just as slutty as we are but our cultures have evolved to strongly discourage females sluttiness in order to pass down property and titles - in other words to ensure the mans DNA goes forward. After all, by definition you know the woman's DNA goes to the next generation; this was the way to ensure the man's did the same.

Bottom line for us - women do like casual sex. Do they like it as much as men - maybe not. Are they pickier? Probably. But still they do like it, do seek it and will give it up. Of course I am practical and know I can get more and better partner(s) abroad than I can in the West, so that's my preference.

See Will N's recent trip report to see what Filipinas think of casual sex - lol!

That could be Davewe, but the key point is: You can't really prove that MOST women like casual sex outside of love and relationships. You can say that some do. But there is no evidence that shows that the majority of women do. Do you see my point?


_________________
Happier Abroad Grand Ebook
Meet Foreign Women

"It takes far less effort to find and move to the society that has what you want than it does to try to reconstruct an existing society to match your standards." - Harry Browne, How I Found Freedom in an Unfree World

"During times of universal deceit, telling the truth becomes a revolutionary act." - George Orwell

Winston, put your ego to the side for a minute.

1) Women have a clitoris, the only organ devoted solely to sexual pleasure.
2) Women have more nerve endings in their sexual organs then men, I believe its three times what we do.
3) Chastity belts, female castration and the like show to me women have been seeking casual sex for some time.
4) Women lie! Like a rug... They are looking for a meal ticket but will jump on some alpha dick along the way. Risk vs. Reward... Its human nature!


_________________
"Never underestimate the predictability of stupidity"!!!

On the first date with my FAV#1 (to use PAN terminology), I couldn't have made a better impression. It lasted until the early morning when there were no buses running so I walked her 4 miles all the way to her house in a very heavy storm, shielding her from the rain with an umbrella. When we got to the front door of her house, she said "I'm so sorry but I just can't invite you in". So I said it was fine, kissed her on the cheek and began my approx. 12 mile journey home to the other side of Dublin as the storm only got worse as time went on.

Later she said to me "I am so sorry about making you take that terrible walk home in the rain. It's just that I do not believe in sex outside of a relationship and I knew that if you had come in and stayed in my room something definitely would have happened."

So, my conclusion is that attraction happens for all women, and sex is a natural result of this attraction. But, some women (such as my Korean FAV#1) are traditional minded and have strongly ingrained sexual morals due to their cultural/religious background which gives them an ability to resist the sex part of that attraction from happening.

I hope my Peter Nolan style post helped you, Winston .

lavezzi,not to be a prick here but wouldn't you say four dates and only being her boyfriend is pretty casual especially based on that's she is leaving soon? Please don't take my question as any form of slam, I'm happy you have met someone, I'm just curious as to your thinking. Also please don't try to sound like that Titanic twit PAN... lol


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Dogboy86 wrote:

lavezzi,not to be a prick here but wouldn't you say four dates and only being her boyfriend is pretty casual especially based on that's she is leaving soon? Please don't take my question as any form of slam, I'm happy you have met someone, I'm just curious as to your thinking. Also please don't try to sound like that Titanic twit PAN... lol

My definition of casual sex is sex outside of a committed relationship. She said she couldn't believe she did it so soon, but that she trusted me when I told her I'd stay with her. She said Irish guys are much more charming and manly that Korean guys so she wants to try a relationship with one, even if it can't possibly be permanent. Perhaps she's not ultra-conservative, but in comparison to what's the norm here she is (Irish women are much sluttier than American women).

She's 24 years old and claims that I am only the second guy she's ever had sex with, which you probably think is BS, but I believe it's true.

No I believe her and you both and am in no way trying to diminish your relationship. I wish you the best of luck and happiness...


_________________
"Never underestimate the predictability of stupidity"!!!

Winston wrote:

That could be Davewe, but the key point is: You can't really prove that MOST women like casual sex outside of love and relationships. You can say that some do. But there is no evidence that shows that the majority of women do. Do you see my point?

Proof? It's not like I am a social scientist conducting surveys. I mean you can go back to the classics: the Kinsey report and Masters and Johnson, who studied women's interest in sex, but certainly not what you define as casual sex.

Honestly I am not much interested in surveys or studies however there is one out there, but as I say I never read a study that got me laid

http://www.nerve.com/news/love-sex/study-women-and-men-like-casual-sex-equally

OTOH, this one contradicts the first

http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2008/06/080625092023.htm

davewe wrote:

As to point #1, this is even more interesting to me. I am certainly no evolutionary biologist but I have a buddy who did study it thoroughly and has some interesting theories. In a tiny nutshell (cause he has written lots about it) he says traditional monogamy is about property. Women way back when were just as promisculous as men. They were biologically driven to obtain as much seed as possible and the competing sperm literally duked it out to see which would fertilize the egg.

Agreed. Read Sperm Wars (I have a pdf version). It's amazing how the female reproductive system is designed in minute detail to allow sperm from different men to mingle and compete. That is not psychological/sociological conjecture - it's a biological fact.

Twobrains wrote:

davewe wrote:

As to point #1, this is even more interesting to me. I am certainly no evolutionary biologist but I have a buddy who did study it thoroughly and has some interesting theories. In a tiny nutshell (cause he has written lots about it) he says traditional monogamy is about property. Women way back when were just as promisculous as men. They were biologically driven to obtain as much seed as possible and the competing sperm literally duked it out to see which would fertilize the egg.

Agreed. Read Sperm Wars (I have a pdf version). It's amazing how the female reproductive system is designed in minute detail to allow sperm from different men to mingle and compete. That is not psychological/sociological conjecture - it's a biological fact.

Correct! Some of the sperm you ejaculate actually are incapable of fertilizing the egg. They exist to attack and destroy competing sperm.

And the scent of another mans pherones on a woman you are having sex with will cause a jump in the production of these warrior sperm. Why do you think the head of the penis is shaped like a shovel?


_________________
"Never underestimate the predictability of stupidity"!!!

Dogboy86 wrote:

And the scent of another mans pherones on a woman you are having sex with will cause a jump in the production of these warrior sperm. Why do you think the head of the penis is shaped like a shovel?

And it actually works like a plunger to suck out the previous competing sperm - lol! This is what they say.

When reason fails backtrack the biology Women love casual sex with high value alpha males... her mouth may may say one thing but her actions and biology state another...


_________________
"Never underestimate the predictability of stupidity"!!!

Rock,
Are conservative prim and proper NE Asian girls like these straight A Stanford university students below, into casual sex? LOL. Or do they only have sex within serious relationships? LOL. Do they look easy? LOL







_________________
Happier Abroad Grand Ebook
Meet Foreign Women

"It takes far less effort to find and move to the society that has what you want than it does to try to reconstruct an existing society to match your standards." - Harry Browne, How I Found Freedom in an Unfree World

"During times of universal deceit, telling the truth becomes a revolutionary act." - George Orwell

Winston wrote:

Rock,
Are conservative prim and proper NE Asian girls like these straight A Stanford university students below, into casual sex? LOL. Or do they only have sex within serious relationships? LOL. Do they look easy? LOL

I can only address yr questions from personal anecdotes.

In my uni, we had over 500 Taiwanese grad students. They had a student organization that hosted various events and many of them were rather cliquish. Generally, they were conservative and very serious about their studies (not interested in getting deeper into their host culture or having romantic adventures lol). When they dated, it was usually witeh eventual marriage in mind. Now on the fringes there were some gals who dated white guys or other non-Asians. But this was frowned upon by many in the group unless it was clearly a serious relationship with a decent guy and even then it was still frowned upon sometimes.

When those yellow fever white guys tried to get involved in the activities and got too close to certain girls, others would warn them to be careful and keep a distance, lol. Grad school Taiwanese women in my experience are not easy to get close to except sometimes on the fringes of the group (special case girls who distanced themselves from their group and tried to learn more about host culture through personal experience). A straight A Stanford (under or grad)? Prolly not, lol.

Now for a contrast, I remember the Korean undergad students which tended to be 1.5 G and beyond seemed to have some pretty wild social circles. I even heard of some (Korean only) orgies but it was never confirmed. One of the Korean American guys (room mate of someone I knew in the dorm) would often go to a local college bar on the weekends and sometimes bring back Korean American chicks. Meanwhile, the white dorm dwellers mostly got nothing except getting sick drunk w/ a bunch of other dudes and eventually throwing up to the porcelain gods. What a blast, lol.