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Truth vs. Happiness - Are They Mutually Exclusive?

Discuss deep philosophical issues and questions.

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Truth vs. Happiness - Are They Mutually Exclusive?

Postby Winston » Tue Mar 06, 2012 10:49 pm

I saw a quote in an episode of Star Wars Clone Wars, the animated series, that said:

"Truth will enlighten your mind, but it will not always bring you happiness."

Isn't that so true? So I got to thinking: Are truth and happiness mutually exclusive?

Have you noticed the following: People who prioritize happiness over truth tend to be fake, artificial and self-deluded. But people who prioritize truth over happiness tend to be jaded and cynical.

Is there a way to harmonize both extremes or have both? Truth is often disturbing and unpleasant. Most people prefer reality to be simple, orderly and make sense - that's why most people tend to close their minds and stick to rigid narrow paradigms. Illusion is often more comfortable than truth.

Is there a way to work within truth toward happiness? What do you think?

What about truth vs. harmony? Which is more important? Are they perpetually in conflict? Are lies necessary to preserve harmony?

In Asian cultures, I am told that harmony is the highest value, and truth is often sacrificed and suppressed to preserve harmony. That's why "speaking out" is not encouraged in Asian cultures.
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Postby momopi » Thu Mar 08, 2012 6:59 am

Truth #1: Being truthful with yourself and ask, "what have I accomplished today toward my goals?"

If you're uncertain, take some time and write down a list of measurable goals on a piece of paper, then prioritize them by order of importance.
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Postby Billy » Thu Mar 08, 2012 9:09 am

Winston, do you always get your wisdom from comics^^?

Yes, trying to be happy makes you happy
Yes, trying to find truth makes you a truthfinder
ect.
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Re: Truth vs. Happiness - Are They Mutually Exclusive?

Postby PeterAndrewNolan » Tue May 01, 2012 10:03 pm

Winston,
"Are truth and happiness mutually exclusive? "

I do not believe so. I am very happy and very close to the truth in most situations. I must say that learning the true nature of women was very upsetting and aggravated me for a while...but once you know the truth about women you soon settle down into it. I am quite relaxed about the true nature of women now.
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Postby boycottamericanwomen » Sun May 13, 2012 5:04 pm

There's nothing more liberating than the truth.

Men at first will become freaked out by the truth, such as how evil American women are, btu once they accept the truth, then they can become truly happy.

Ignorance is the cause of unhappiness. A man is ignorant of how evil western women are. So he marries one and gets his life destroyed.

If such men had knowledge, they could easily have avoided that and gone for good girls like Asians or Russians.

So yea, truth and happiness are the same. Without truth, we could never have walked the path to ultimate happiness and liberation.
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Postby PeterAndrewNolan » Sun May 13, 2012 5:19 pm

Isn't that so true? So I got to thinking: Are truth and happiness mutually exclusive?

Is there a way to harmonize both extremes or have both? Truth is often disturbing and unpleasant. Most people prefer reality to be simple, orderly and make sense - that's why most people tend to close their minds and stick to rigid narrow paradigms. Illusion is often more comfortable than truth.

Is there a way to work within truth toward happiness? What do you think?

What about truth vs. harmony? Which is more important? Are they perpetually in conflict? Are lies necessary to preserve harmony?

I think truth does bring about a far more solid foundation for "happiness". I did experience a period of aggravation when I found out that I had been lied to by so many people. But as I got to the truth of the matter I settled again. Now I am so much better informed than 4 years ago and my level of consciousness has increased so far I am happier and more stable.

My major issue is that having been subject to those lies for so long does leave an "imprint" if you like to call it that and that imprint does get me down some days.

I also do feel sorry for young men who have been lied to and are not willing to work their way out of it. Their ignorance and arrogance, though understandable, does sadden me.

They think they are so smart. They think they know so much. And they are deluded and ignorant by the system of lies that holds them in their grasp. They have the chance to learn and break free and live a life far better than they otherwise might. But their small minds keep them in their cages without bars.

It is almost like seeing a beaten child who has been badly abused call for more beatings because he does not know what love and kindness is. He thinks beatings are love and kindness.

The ignorance of young men and their commitment to that ignorance saddens me more than anything else I see on a day to day basis.
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Postby Introvert » Tue May 15, 2012 9:45 pm

Would a person who is a beneficiary of "truth" be happy?
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Postby lavezzi » Thu May 24, 2012 9:58 am

Truth IS happiness. Clarity and confusion are the only things that are truly mutually exclusive, and we are being led down a path of confusion by all facets of the system we have been born into.

The sole reason so many humans are miserable nowadays is because we've been completely misguided about where we should be fathoming the way in which we view the world. We've been taught to use our senses to look for information as the source of truth by listening to others and using our brains to decode and store the information we are given; this is how we have learned everything we think we know, while not even questioning what the source of this information really is.

If our senses are decoding what we see, hear, feel, smell and taste, and this is where the information is coming from, what is it that is aware of our senses? it's impossible for scientists to find an answer to this question as they are solely working with their senses, so they will say it's nothing, or just another part of the brain (which they can't locate?). The truth is that it is everything and the only thing that is real, everything else is an illusion. It is the true source of all knowledge and awareness of all information. Without a connection to this, the only thing we have is blind faith, no true source of knowing.
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Postby lavezzi » Thu May 24, 2012 11:46 pm

Once you transcend your ego and shift your consciousness, which is what enables you to see truth, you can no longer suffer in a self-centered way, but due to dramatic expansion of empathy you experience, you suffer deeply out of compassion as you can so clearly see the grotesque distortion humanity is living under and just how outrageously needless it is. I feel as if I wish I could go back to being absorbed in mind to escape it, but I know even if I was able to I would regret it. The only thing to do is to dedicate my life to help end the suffering of others, but one can only do so much. There needs to be a worldwide awakening before there can ever, ever be change.
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Postby Twobrains » Fri May 25, 2012 7:03 pm

I know what you're saying, Lavezzi. But my truth is that there will be no change on a societal level. Each individual has to find their own way to enlightenment. I truly believe that the balance of 'good' and 'evil' has remained pretty much the same throughout humanity's existence. We make progress on some fronts, but slip back on others. I would loosely call myself a Taoist and I don't believe any more in struggling against overwhelming odds; go with the flow and try to be 100% what you were born to be, no matter if what results is labelled as good or bad. We are not wise enough to judge. Have compassion for others, of course, but not just for those obviously suffering; the apparently successful may be facing inner challenges that are just as difficult.

I think it was a Buddhist sage who said "Enlightenment is serenity in the face of imperfection."
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Postby Billy » Fri May 25, 2012 8:27 pm

I would say it´s destiny. We have the illusion that we move things which matter. In the end it´s all empty. So maybe we should dance more. Let´s get black :)
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Postby lavezzi » Sun May 27, 2012 10:21 am

Twobrains wrote:I know what you're saying, Lavezzi. But my truth is that there will be no change on a societal level. Each individual has to find their own way to enlightenment. I truly believe that the balance of 'good' and 'evil' has remained pretty much the same throughout humanity's existence. We make progress on some fronts, but slip back on others. I would loosely call myself a Taoist and I don't believe any more in struggling against overwhelming odds; go with the flow and try to be 100% what you were born to be, no matter if what results is labelled as good or bad. We are not wise enough to judge. Have compassion for others, of course, but not just for those obviously suffering; the apparently successful may be facing inner challenges that are just as difficult.

I think it was a Buddhist sage who said "Enlightenment is serenity in the face of imperfection."


I've been coming across a lot of information via the internet about a natural revolution of human consciousness which will take place in the coming years. Apparently we have been living in a 26,000 year cycle of desperately low levels of consciousness which is now coming to an end, which will enable people to start waking up en mass. It used to take 10+ years of working with a spiritual teacher to see the full truth about the nature of the human condition. Now, people are waking up in very short periods of time. All concepts and beliefs are harmful if they pertain to our own self-interest, but to speculate on something for the benefit of all others is fine and will not reduce our own personal awareness. I think a more proper quote would be "Enlightenment is serenity in the face of an imperfect personal life situation."
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Selflessness

Postby chaste_filipina » Tue Jul 31, 2012 9:45 am

I think it is our personal responsibility to further our spiritual advancement while we are here in the physical plane. The Divine Plan has already been laid out for us but seeing where we are now, we are always distracted by worldly values.
Humankind have forgotten their real purpose in life. Why are they living here at this time? Why do we need to undergo such pain and mental suffering if we pursue the Universal Truth of all things?
Why can we not just fast forward our life's ordeals so that we can achieve spiritual enlightenment?
Because I believe that things has its own pace.
There's really no need to rush.
Events will happen if it permits. We can predict the future and make preparations for it, however controlling the outcome is beyond human capability.

For example, you can be generous to another human being. But if you have ulterior motives such as self-aggrandizement for your kind actions, then you're not being generous at all.

To be selfless is a very hard thing to do because you are putting others before you.
You always think for their welfare much like Unconditional Love.
Humankind were born and raised to think for themselves first.
That's why the Ego was formed - a separate entity.
But in reality, the Ego does not even exist because it is only a manifestation of your Mind.
A veil which needs to be removed.

One can only be selfless if that person can truly say from his/her Heart:
"I am here because of I"
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Postby lavezzi » Mon Nov 05, 2012 7:20 pm

the one and only thing obscuring the incredible true nature of reality is personalization; the belief that one is seperate from everything else in the universe. this is a false notion. to be emersed in something one cannot possibly be seperate from it. however this is useless as a concept; the mind sees everything as seperate and can only deduct information or induce it from other deductions. it has to be felt, which cannot be achieved until one has trancended their idea of the personal self through wisdom and understanding. what we experience is an awareness that perceives through our senses and memory to create a picture of reality. the outside world consists of object matter which we interpret subjectively to fit the idea of reality imposed on us by others from the time we are born. the only way to break this spell of personal bias which creates a vastly negative distortion is to come to a point of true seeing by ones own means.
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Postby Ginger » Wed Nov 07, 2012 7:27 am

:)
Last edited by Ginger on Wed Jul 03, 2013 6:03 pm, edited 1 time in total.
I do not promise to be gingerly :P
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