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Was there a historical Jesus Christ? If so, who was he?

Discuss religion and spirituality topics.

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Neo
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Re: Was there a historical Jesus Christ? If so, who was he?

Post by Neo » December 11th, 2018, 10:39 pm

John 6:47 KJV
[47] Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that believeth on me hath everlasting life.

Acts 16:30-31 KJV
[30] And brought them out, and said, Sirs, what must I do to be saved? [31] And they said, Believe on the Lord Jesus Christ, and thou shalt be saved, and thy house.

1 John 5:13 KJV
[13] These things have I written unto you that believe on the name of the Son of God; that ye may know that ye have eternal life, and that ye may believe on the name of the Son of God.

Yes, that is all. Just believe in the Lord: that He is the Son of God and that He has done all the work to save you.

Most people know that Christ died for our sins, but what they always forget is just as important. That is that He also kept all the commandments of God. He fulfilled the entirety of the law. By completing all the commandments of God, He thereby overcame and conquered the commandments for everyone to be saved. He has overcome the law. All we must do is believe in Him! This is why salvation is not by works.

Romans 10:4 KJV For Christ is the end of the law for righteousness to every one that believeth.

Philippians 3:9 And be found in him, not having mine own righteousness, which is of the law, but that which is through the faith of Christ, the righteousness which is of God by faith:

Do you still think there must be some works? There aren't any. Salvation is outside the commandments:

Romans 3 KJV
[21] But now the righteousness of God without the law is manifested, being witnessed by the law and the prophets;[22] Even the righteousness of God which is by faith of Jesus Christ unto all and upon all them that believe: for there is no difference:

Salvation is by faith alone, outside of keeping the commandments:

Romans 3:28 Therefore we conclude that a man is justified by faith without the deeds of the law.

It is the free gift of God to all those who believe in His Son:

Romans 6:23 KJV
[23] For the wages of sin is death; but the gift of God is eternal life through Jesus Christ our Lord.

Ephesians 2:8-9 KJV
[8] For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God: [9] Not of works, lest any man should boast.

Romans 3:24 KJV Being justified freely by his grace through the redemption that is in Christ Jesus:

All you must do is believe. Then you're saved from that moment.

Salvation can never be lost:

John 6:37 KJV
[37] All that the Father giveth me shall come to me; and him that cometh to me I will in no wise cast out.

John 10:28 KJV
[28] And I give unto them eternal life; and they shall never perish, neither shall any man pluck them out of my hand.

Ephesians 4:30 KJV
[30] And grieve not the holy Spirit of God, whereby ye are sealed unto the day of redemption.

TruthSeeker
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Re: Was there a historical Jesus Christ? If so, who was he?

Post by TruthSeeker » December 12th, 2018, 3:12 pm

Good works always follow a genuine faith. Jesus said the works that I do shall you do also and greater works. So yes, we as Christians do good works. The works themselves do not save but are evidence of a true faith in Christ.

Why is it that you lack understanding on this and other issues? Are you so blind that you can not see?

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Re: Was there a historical Jesus Christ? If so, who was he?

Post by TruthSeeker » December 12th, 2018, 5:24 pm

Hebrews 11:1 Now faith is the substance of things hoped for, the evidence of things not seen.

I would agree that faith is an evidence but it's not the only evidence.

True faith produces good works. Jesus said you shall know them by their fruits (Matt. 7:16). Fruits are works which are produced as a result of faith.

Matthew 7:17 Even so every good tree bringeth forth good fruit; but a corrupt tree bringeth forth evil fruit.

You just need to learn to get the horse before the cart Neo.

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Neo
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Re: Was there a historical Jesus Christ? If so, who was he?

Post by Neo » December 12th, 2018, 5:28 pm

TruthSeeker wrote:
December 12th, 2018, 3:12 pm
Good works always follow a genuine faith. Jesus said the works that I do shall you do also and greater works. So yes, we as Christians do good works. The works themselves do not save but are evidence of a true faith in Christ.

Why is it that you lack understanding on this and other issues? Are you so blind that you can not see?
No, good works do not always follow, which is why there is such a thing as a carnal Christian. That is also why someone can be saved, yet their faith can be dead, because they are not doing any good works (works that profit or benefit others).

Works are not for salvation. A person who trusts on his own works is trusting on his own ability to keep the commandments, which means he is trusting on his own righteousness. That would make him is own messiah. To be saved a person must only trust in Christ, because He, as the Son of God, completed all of the commandments, which is why salvation is without works as Paul tells us in Ephesians 2:8-9. A person must trust in Christ and His righteousness, not on their own. If a person trusts on his own righteousness, it denies Jesus as the Messiah.

Good works must be done, only the person must realize that he cannot trust on his works for salvation.

This is why Ephesians 2:8-9 says it twice: NOT OF WORKS. NOT OF YOURSELVES. It is not from the person. The righteousness of Christ is imputed onto the believer as a gift for believing in Christ. God requires nothing else for salvation except our faith in THE MESSIAH, His Son, the Son of God, who is the Redeemer. We can't be co-redeemers with Christ by both trusting on our own works and His. That doesn't count.

Anyone who trusts in his own works, will be judged by his works. Anyone who is judged by his works will be condemned by his works, because he is not Christ. Because the standard of salvation by works is impossible unless the person is God in the flesh.

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Neo
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Re: Was there a historical Jesus Christ? If so, who was he?

Post by Neo » December 12th, 2018, 5:31 pm

TruthSeeker wrote:
December 12th, 2018, 5:24 pm
Hebrews 11:1 Now faith is the substance of things hoped for, the evidence of things not seen.

I would agree that faith is an evidence but it's not the only evidence.

True faith produces good works. Jesus said you shall know them by their fruits (Matt. 7:16). Fruits are works which are produced as a result of faith.

Matthew 7:17 Even so every good tree bringeth forth good fruit; but a corrupt tree bringeth forth evil fruit.

You just need to learn to get the horse before the cart Neo.
Those are not salvation verses. For salvation, look to verses that indicate salvation. If the verse doesn't say, saved/justified, eternal life/everlasting life, righteousness/salvation or born again/regenerated, etc., then it is probably not a salvation verse.

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Re: Was there a historical Jesus Christ? If so, who was he?

Post by Pinayhunter » December 12th, 2018, 5:56 pm

How can a non-believer become a believer though? What evidence can we provide to make them change their minds? It’s so easy to be deceived with all the distractions and deceptions in our modern world. I spent over a decade going down the neverending rabbit hole of conspiracy theories and new age spirituality, so I know firsthand.

A lot of my family members are non-believers, and I don’t want any of them to go to hell. In fact, I don’t even want my worst enemy to go there. It bothers me how cavelier a lot of Christians are about the subject - some even joke about it.

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Neo
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Re: Was there a historical Jesus Christ? If so, who was he?

Post by Neo » December 12th, 2018, 6:02 pm

All that can be done, is to offer to present the gospel to the unbelievers. Some will accept and then they can be shown the gospel. Some will not be able to believe the gospel. Most will reject the offer to hear the gospel.

Although there is evidence, most of it has been explained away by satanic deceptions that have gripped the whole world. For that reason, trying to use evidence to get someone to believe probably won't work.

Either a person can believe and wants to put their trust in Christ, or they can't or won't.

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Re: Was there a historical Jesus Christ? If so, who was he?

Post by TruthSeeker » December 12th, 2018, 7:14 pm

Pinayhunter wrote:
December 12th, 2018, 5:56 pm
A lot of my family members are non-believers, and I don’t want any of them to go to hell. In fact, I don’t even want my worst enemy to go there. It bothers me how cavelier a lot of Christians are about the subject - some even joke about it.
Hey Pinayhunter all you can do is speak the truth in love (Eph. 4:15) and in meekness instruct those that oppose themselves (2 Tim. 2:25) if God peradventure will give them repentance to the acknowledging of the truth.

You see it says over here in 2 Peter 3:9 The Lord is not slack concerning his promise, as some men count slackness; but is longsuffering to us-ward, not willing that any should perish, but that all should come to repentance.

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Re: Was there a historical Jesus Christ? If so, who was he?

Post by Winston » December 13th, 2018, 6:49 am

Neo are you adama? If so why did you change your screen name? Would you put your hand on the bible and swear that you're not adama? Lol
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Neo
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Re: Was there a historical Jesus Christ? If so, who was he?

Post by Neo » December 13th, 2018, 7:52 pm

Acts 13:39 KJV And by him all that believe are justified from all things, from which ye could not be justified by the law of Moses.

James 2:10 For whosoever shall keep the whole law, and yet offend in one point, he is guilty of all.

This verse also shows that a person cannot be saved by keeping the commandments.


Galatians 3:11 KJV But that no man is justified by the law in the sight of God, it is evident: for, The just shall live by faith.

Galatians 3:6 KJV Even as Abraham believed God, and it was accounted to him for righteousness.

Genesis 15:6 KJV And he believed in the Lord; and he counted it to him for righteousness

James 2:23 And the scripture was fulfilled which saith, Abraham believed God, and it was imputed unto him for righteousness: and he was called the Friend of God.

Romans 4:6 KJV Even as David also describeth the blessedness of the man, unto whom God imputeth righteousness without works,

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Re: Was there a historical Jesus Christ? If so, who was he?

Post by Pinayhunter » December 26th, 2018, 8:48 pm

We have more historical, archaeological, and scientific evidence for Jesus than any other person in antiquity. We have the Bible, which is self-authenticating if you actually read and obey it. We have countless modern testimonies that are in line with Scripture.

A lot of you skeptics already believe in the supernatural anyway. How much of a leap is to to believe Christianity is true? All these phenomena like ghosts, aliens, and OBE’s make so much more sense through the lens of Scripture anyway.

To all you non-Christians, all I can say is... you BETTER be right. Watch this entire clip - it’s only 8 minutes.


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Re: Was there a historical Jesus Christ? If so, who was he?

Post by TruthSeeker » December 26th, 2018, 11:03 pm

Yeah and Bill Wiese is making a lot of money off it. We don't believe in hell because Bill Wiese says so. We believe in hell because the Bible says so. And Jesus talked about hell.

Psalms 9:17 The wicked shall be turned into hell, and all the nations that forget God.

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Neo
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Re: Was there a historical Jesus Christ? If so, who was he?

Post by Neo » January 4th, 2019, 10:48 pm

As for all those who believe salvation must be more complex than simply trusting in Christ by faith alone (without repentance), here is a verse for you, if you are able to comprehend and accept it:


2 Corinthians 11:3 KJV But I fear, lest by any means, as the serpent beguiled Eve through his subtilty, so your minds should be corrupted from the simplicity that is in Christ.

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Re: Was there a historical Jesus Christ? If so, who was he?

Post by TruthSeeker » January 4th, 2019, 11:08 pm

You're saying repentance isn't necessary? You're wrong on that.

Luke 13:3 I tell you, Nay: but, except ye repent, ye shall all likewise perish.

Luke 13:5 I tell you, Nay: but, except ye repent, ye shall all likewise perish.

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Neo
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Re: Was there a historical Jesus Christ? If so, who was he?

Post by Neo » January 4th, 2019, 11:26 pm

There are two kinds of repentance. This may be a snare to all those who are unaware of it.

God repented in the Old Testament. So this is how we know that repentance is not always about sin.

There is:
1. Repentance from sin, which is turning from sin to keep the commandments, which is work, also known as trusting in our own righteousness if the person believes faith + works save them.
2. Just like God in the OT, there is repentance of mind. In the case of salvation, this means the person changes their mind. Switching from believing the lies of the world, or switching from being an atheist, into believing in Christ is repentance of mind and repentance of heart.

Repent and believe is the same as saying, Change your mind from unbelief to belief.

Also, people should keep in mind that the phrase "repent from sin" or "repent of sin" is never mentioned in the King James. However, ideally, a person who gets saved will repent from their sin, after they accept that Christ is God and the commandments are real and not just from any other religion.

Salvation cannot be by repentance from sin, because repentance from sin is turning from sin to keep the commandments, which is work. And as we all know (although we all do not accept it), salvation is not by the law, it is not by works, because salvation is outside the commandments and completely and totally and simply by faith in Christ and His righteousness.

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