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(Submitted with Falcon's permission)
We met-up recently in Taipei for a couple of days. Had some interesting times and conversations.
1. Falcon is from a blue KMT family background with ties to Taipei and the urban north. His relatives speak Mandarin at home. In contrast, Winston is from a strongly green DPP background with ties to Chiayi and the rural south. His relatives speak Hokkien and some seem to be fiercely pro-Taiwan independence. Of course Winston himself doesn't care about any of this.
2. But the bird man himself is a salt-of-the-earth at heart. Here in Asia, he lacks confidence around young mainstream girls but feels energized around poor and marginalized ones who make him feel attractive and special. He also sympathizes with them for often being looked down on or ignored by the broader society. And he is even attracted to them physically. He appreciates short, dark, and mature types, the opposite of what most guys here are drawn too. After my last ex gf (who he met) saw various photos of his collection from Thailand, all she could say is, "I feel like my eyes have been raped". I think SE Asia is going to be a real paradise for him!
- In Taipei, he was strongly attracted to his grandma's 33 yr. old 4'11" inch Indonesian care giver whom he bonded with during his days here. That's all he could seem to talk about over half the time we hung out. Of course she dug him too, big time!
- In Thailand, his favorite 2 girls so far are a short young Chinese Burmese waitress from a Sichuanese restaurant and a middle aged 4'11" dark skinned Issan girl.
- I got a message from him today about his first night in Angeles. Sounds just like Winston when he first hit the ground there many moons ago - "I went inside one of the clubs/bars on Walking Street, Angeles last night, and the ladies were all over me! At least 7 or 8 of them were surrounding me and competing for my attention ... it was a such a surreal, incredible experience. Really silly and wild flirting, with plenty of giggling... Many of the other guys were elderly white guys or middle-aged Korean guys who didn't speak very good English. They were with maybe 1, 2, or 3 ladies at most, and didn't get surrounded by huge crowds of ladies like I did."
- While he and I were in the 24 hour Eslite bookstore in Taipei, I approached a tall, attractive, and classy National Taiwan University PoliSci student and eventually brought Falcon into the conversation. I think she would have been a dream match for him in his parent's eyes. But all he could manage in the way of convo was to pull out his camera to show and tell her about his dark campesino ex from Mexico and then show her more photos of animal looking people from the anthropological book he had just purchased, "The World Until Yesterday". He was just not in his element even though she was a nice, highly educated, and fairly down to earth type in spite of being quite tall and attractive.
3. When it comes to Taipei women, he seems to be put-off by what he calls 公主病 from Jay Zhou or princess syndrome. He doesn't like how the protocol in places like Xinyi or the Eastern District is for guys to dress smart, carry their date's bags, open car doors for her, and act the refined and polite gentleman. He likes it casual country style where girls are completely down to earth, serving and deferring to their men old school style. BTW, when I visited his grandma's house, his Indonesian crush made us rice plates of some great tasting spicy Indonesian food. That's the kinda thing which excites Falcon.
4.Growing up in an area of the US with a high concentration of Asian Americans seems to have deeply affected his confidence around girls who look anything like the ones back home. So he was shocked that the Chinese Indo girls I introduced him to in Bangkok who all could pass for Asian Americans were bothered by his lack of attention to them instead of his nerdiness, lol. Since young NE Asian urban types at first glance look a lot like this too, he seems not to be comfortable around them. On the other hand, girls who look different, reassure him that he's tall and attractive, and shower him with flirtatious attention just blow his mind away. Now add to that his physical preferences and it's easy to see the path of least resistance is to go for the poor, dark, short, older, and/or disenfranchised girls of SE Asian descent.
5. Monkro is also an Asian American (Indian) from a similar background and area as Falcon and suffered socially more or less in the same way. But in his HA journey, he responded quite differently since he's rather picky about looks and is very much into the attractive NE Asian look. When he hit the ground here, he put in enough time and effort to discover that Taipei girls, while similar on the surface, are a whole different breed than their American raised cousins. In fact, he wrote a What's App message to Falcon welcoming him to the "dating paradise of Taipei" lol and giving him a bunch of pointers and encouragement. As I later explained to Monkro, "you can lead a horse to water but you can't make it drink". The opportunities he could have here with regular young mainstream Taipei girls is totally lost on him. Even though he's keen to try, it's not a good fit for him. Why?
6. Because, he wants that reassurance you get when you stand-out the way a rich, tall and extremely handsome guy does. Backward areas can kinda put you on that pedestal given the relative nature of looks, wealth, and height. But in Taipei, he would have to put in some real work. Expectations, while different from women Stateside, are still high. Both my last ex (who Falcon met) and his 20 something Taiwanese cousin told me Falcon is not the type that Taipei girls would be initially attracted to. Because he lacks confidence and it shows. At 6 feet even, he does not stand-out as being very tall. He's a down to earth type when it comes to dress and grooming style. And ABCs today don't impress in Taipei they way they would have when Falcon's parent's were his age. Both my ex and his cousin told me that Taipei girls don't generally want the exaggerated swagger popular with American girls but they do want a guy who is comfortable in his own skin, sure of himself, and non-hesitant or shaky. Falcon's cousin went on to tell me that if a Taiwan girl had the chance to know Falcon better and learn about all his language talents and intellectual achievements, she might become attracted to him based on those things. But when I relayed this to bird man, he brushed it off as something that just gets him friend zoned in States. He simply does not have the patience or inclination to give Taipei a full shot the way Monkro did.
7. What can we learn from Falcon? Well, if we can't eliminate our desires ala the Buddhist past, perhaps we can adjust them to something much easier to realize. He has the uncanny ability to look beyond the appearance and material aspects of people and see them at the soul level. I think any young, middle aged, or old guy who can do this is going to find a very easy time being truly Happier Abroad in any one of dozens of different countries. Falcon will be in paradise in SE Asia. He will find a rich assortment of opportunities to experience local hospitality, language, and culture at deep levels and never have a shortage of willing and available women he finds attractive. He will have it all there.
8. Link to 5 Photos - http://share.shutterfly.com/action/welc ... XLZo0cN2Eh
Falcon has roughly the same background as my family.
I feel that Falcon has a bit of a white knight mentality deep down. Maybe it's due to his own self esteem issues but there's definitely a noticeable need for him to engage the "disenfranchised" in this way. I like Falcon but his taste in women and his reasons for it are something I am vehemently opposed to for basic philosophical reasons. I feel that he feels he needs to settle with women who are lower on the socioeconomic and looks scale because of psychological issues. I am a firm believer in being with someone who can live up to being the full package and not settling because you have some self esteem issues or because it's the perceived easy route.
This is another thing that bugs me. I feel that the whole dating protocol is just the initial shield a woman throws up but once you get through that barrier you can see an entirely different side when she's comfortable with you. It seems like Falcon never managed to get past step one with a lot of women..he's not pushing through their social barriers to get to their real personalities. Not all attractive women are uppity princesses. Not even close. It seems like after the initial closed off vibe he shuts down and stops trying then proceeds to categorize all these women as being unavailable. This is a big mistake.
Looking forward to Falcon returning to Bkk!
Hopefully we can go and explore some of the other parts of this vast city. I've found that 30 minutes away from Sukhumvit there are completely farang-free areas - but it requires putting your faith in the gods' ability to conjure up buses to take you to such places . I think Everdred and I are unlikely to return to ChinaTown in a hurry though after last week's fright o).
Like Falcon I am drawn to marginalised girls. I put it down to the fact that I don't want a girl who is taller than me or older than me or smarter than me. It's all childhood related. My best gf experience in Bkk has been with the short, not terribly smart Issan girl I met on wechat. Shame her domineering sister had to wreck it.
I like gogo girls. Yes they're disaster areas but then so are many "nice" girls.
Well 2.5 months in and Bkk is proving worse than China in terms of dating. A major issue here is that Bkk women work the longest hours I have ever seen. I tried dating one girl but she worked 7 days a week .
Bkk girls also don't seem to be so willing to give things a chance.
Oh well I'll keep plugging away.
One prediction I told Rock in Pattaya is likely to come true. I told him that I would carry on dating which of my Chinese ladies came to Bkk. Well wheels are turning on this story...
Away from dating, Bkk is interesting but I think it's just too hot here for me .
Have you tried picking up in Siam Paragon Mall and around that area, according to some players on RooshV Siam mall is one of the best places for day game.
Imo BKK is way overrated city when it comes to dating, people come with high expectations and leave disappointed. Its has great p4p scene, the best I've seen but dating scene is different story unless your name is Steve R
Thanks Rock. And about the Chinese-Indonesian girls we met in Bangkok vs. my Indonesian crush:
Remember how the girls (L and her friends), and even yourself, were virtually vilifying the non-Chinese Indonesians as horrible monsters?
Well my Indo maid crush is an ethnic Javanese and Muslim. She felt far easier to connect with and warmer, more sensual, and funner than the ethnic Chinese ones. She would be overjoyed when I'd talk about native Indonesian culture with her. The Chinese-Indonesian girls, on the other hand, are middle-class females from Sumatra. They were showing me photos of Taiwanese pop idols on their smartphones and were asking me what I knew about them. Not my thing. I then asked them about Sumatra ethnic groups such as the Minangkabau, and one girl simply said, "I don't like that."
My Javanese lady made out with me too, and she was the one who initiated the first kiss. We even sang her favorite Indonesian/Malay songs together like "Cindai", "Zapin", and "Dangdut is the Music of My Country." We still have to sing some Javanese songs together though!
Also, most Indonesian maids in Taiwan are Muslim and non-Chinese, whereas most of the Indonesian mail-order brides here are non-Muslim and Chinese, many of whom are Hakka (I am mostly of Hakka descent myself).
It's ironic how a Muslim from a country generally thought to be more conservative than Taiwan would be so much warmer and flirtier with than most Taiwanese women. This case shows that many Muslims aren't prudish asexuals as commonly depicted by the American media. The colder Taiwanese, on the other hand, are mostly irreligious, Buddhist, or Christian.
Last edited by Falcon on September 3rd, 2013, 7:19 pm, edited 2 times in total.
Yes, it was incredible. I don't plan to go back, since bar-hopping isn't really my thing. Getting mobbed by around 10 hot girls at a time, all vying for my attention, can be a bit overwhelming. One at a time is enough. I didn't bar-fine anyone, since I was there just out of curiosity and for companionship.
I went into two bars, and both times got mobbed, perhaps semi-violently. So much competition! They would cause such a commotion that everyone would stop and stare at us, including the dancers, old white guys, and Filipino guys working there. I got surrounded by girls from Samar, Biliran, Cebu, Mindanao, Masbate, and other islands to the south. I'd always ask them, "Taga saan ka" when they ask me where I'm from, to which I'd just say Taiwanese. They felt especially comfortable with me, since speaking Tagalog really opens them up even more.
And the fighting and girls getting selosa (jealous)! Oh dear.
- In one bar, a girl who was imitating the Japanese anime/kawaii-type look jokingly (?) threatened my Samar and Biliran girls with a beer bottle opener, then threw a shoe at them and made them smell it. Well we were all laughing anyways and treating this as a joke, so there were no broken bones.
- In another bar, I was sitting between two ladies, an older one from Masbate and a younger one from Davao. The Davao girl was visibly angry at how the older Masbate woman was seducing me, and kept calling her "lola" (grandmother). I had gotten the Masbate lady a teddy bear, and the Davao girl kept snatching that away from her. The Masbate lady wasn't worried and just kept French kissing me anyways.
Angeles City is a fantasy land anyways, and Filipinas wouldn't be that wild under most circumstances. However, even in everyday outside life, I'd get some smiles and looks from girls. Just simple eye contact and smiles.
A few of the Filipina girls also said I must be a "babaero" (playboy). Also my Javanese lady in Taipei said I must have a girl in every country, and she just finds it impossible to believe that I would NOT be a playboy. Contrast that with the US, where it was absolute zero success for most of my youth in the US.
I personally do find Winston's main thesis to 100% true. I've had huge success with girls from these countries that are so radically different from each other: Mexico, Guatemala, China, Thailand, Burma, Indonesia, Philippines, etc. I'm sure the list can go on and on!
I got a one-way plane ticket out of the US, and now I can't believe what had just happened to me. A few years ago, I thought I'd really live the rest of my life like a celibate monk. Now that I'm out ... wow, just wow. Before, I had tried to date girls dozens and dozens of times in the US, but always ended up being ignored or with very cruel or embarrassing rejections. Now I literally have too many to choose from! (Hence the quip that overseas, getting a girl is not the problem; getting rid of a girl is the real problem.) Winston, Monkro, and so many of you other guys must have experienced this kind of shock too!
So u got some 'kissin n spit swappin' from a lola in a Fields Avenue go-go joint! Maybe u should spare us such details. Certain members such as Repat are gonna get mighty jealous of u lol.
Nice analysis Rock. I can see why Falcon wants to stay in his comfort zone. He is doing so much in his life and is investing so much time for knowledge and stuff he has no energy left for princesses. - ItÂ´s funny in my last post I also mentioned that there is something to learn from Falcon like to be humble and stuff but I think itÂ´s a matter of personality. Some think either she is very pretty or I donÂ´t want any women at all. Not everybody can lower their expectations. - Probably it has something with ego and power. In the end girls are mostly just another challenge and people who want to test their skills want to climb on the higher mountains.
Falcon reminds me to the "Kevin Costner" film. "dancing with the wolfs" at least this was the german title. He integrates in a west indian tribe.
Falcon is a nice guy. Even his raps/lyrics were so soft
Yeah, Repat should try getting that from his pale, anorexic Bangkok schoolgirls next door.
I'd say my family is relatively well-to-do, and they definitely do look down on poor SE Asians. They treat our Indonesian maid as lower than them, which really upsets me. To me, she should be family, and I told her that. Rock said that the psychological torture they give her is really quite common for domestic workers to experience in Taiwan.
My grandmother (the one Rock met) still likes to rant about how evil the Chinese Communists are, and idolizes Chiang Kai-Shek as the hero who made Taiwan into such a great country (or province). But Winston's relatives would probably call him a murderer, hehe. She also showed me a photo of one of her relatives who was a high-ranking KMT official. One of my grandfathers was a captain in the KMT Navy and then a recreational cruise captain later on, and my other grandmother (the one Rock didn't meet) showed me some of his portraits in military uniform, which were highly decorated.
I had a few relatives who went to NTU, so they'd be quite happy.
Come on dude you know it's completely different in a bar scene with obvious slappers involved. Let's not mix p4p or "hostess" bars with real life here...
I think that sort of thing is bad and uncalled for too. I don't like Asian style old school classism but it's undeniably effective in controlling wealth and power.
Had a great time in Pattaya when Rock left me in Walking Street. I stayed in one place until they closed. The girls are fun, the music's loud, and the beer is way cheaper than Bangkok. They're also good places for people watching.
Had another date tonight, but she wasn't the one. To meet her involved another epic Bangkok journey due to traffic and the incredible heat and a few crazy people on the buses. It's ALWAYS hot here, even at night. It was 39C along Sukhumvit at lunchtime. Phew.
Bangkok could be good for day game, but who are you going to meet? Shop assistants are useless girlfriends as they work 6 days a week and you'll never see them. The hottest girls here are usually Chinese or Korean tourists. Again they're mostly a waste of time. The hottest Thai MILFs are usually bar ladies.
I've been deploying wechat quite a bit but living along Sukhumvit all I find are bar girls.
Maybe I'll go somewhere else in a few months. I'd like to return here and get my CELTA though. I don't think I'll be going to Russia after seeing a Russian couple smash their room up in my hotel
A few caveats:
1. Whenever I take a photo with flash, passersby in Taiwan often jump back and have shocked expressions on their faces. It's like reflexes they've learned from childhood beatings or something. This is the only country I've seen where people react like this to camera flash. Not even people in China do this.
2. Rock has a Taiwanese attitude on the inside. He can get nit-picky about small things, like constantly asking whether my backpack is too heavy or about the way I hold things, or things on the table or personal mannerisms. And when I'd point out that those are really Taiwanese-like traits, he would say, "Oh I'm sorry, I didn't have any bad intentions (wo bu shi huai yi)". Like the "Oh sorry, sorry (bu hao yi shi)" kind of talk.
FYI, Julia, the NTU student we met at the bookstore, looked kind of like this (face-wise):
Ads are everywhere in Taiwan. Many feature stereotypical Taiwanese "meimei"-type princesses.
With all due respect, come on now. You're smarter than that. Why are you using the typical shaming tactics of American women? I could say that you lack confidence to approach American girls too, but we all know that's a pure myth and shaming tactic.
Furthermore, you err in a number of ways. Pointing them out is like shooting fish in a barrel.
1) First, Taiwanese girls do not find confidence attractive. That's an American shaming tactic that has no reality or substance. Hardly any Taiwanese guys are confident. They are passive, docile, soft spoken, humble, non-confrontational, and not brave at all. Yet they get girlfriends. Explain that. It has NOTHING to do with confidence. You have no basis for saying that.
I have tons of confidence, yet Taiwanese girls don't find me attractive for that. If I'm not their type and they don't like my look and vibe, then confidence doesn't matter. Looks are surface deep. After that, all that matters is chemistry, connection and synergy.
2) Second, you can't say that Falcon is not confident. No way. He is WAY more confident than any Taiwanese guy I know. How many Taiwanese, or Americans, would venture down into Mexico, especially alone? No way. Taiwanese and Americans live in FEAR and consider Mexico to be dangerous. You know that. We all know that. Give Falcon some credit for his bravery. Not even I would have the guts to venture down to Mexico. It takes GUTS to be a nonconformist too.
3) Third, when Falcon was at my house, we talked to three mainland Chinese women on the phone. He talked to them for a long time during our three way conversation and was able to hold a long enjoyable smooth conversation with them. The conversation was natural and down to earth. How was he able to do that if he has no confidence? lol. Come on now. Get real. It's not Falcon's fault if young Taiwanese girls aren't easy to hold conversations with.
When I introduced Rock to a nice girl I knew in Taipei, he reported that when he met her, they had nothing to talk about. She did not put much into the conversation. So it went nowhere and was awkward. Does that mean that Rock lacks confidence too? lol
So you see Rock, you've made two basic ERRORS. I think you owe him an apology for trying to shame him like that, even if you didn't mean it that way. You still came across the wrong way.
It's a shame that in your religious need to defend Taiwan at all costs, you are willing to distort the truth. That makes you less credible in my view, even though you are credible in other areas. For some reason, you defend Taiwan like a Christian defends the Bible. My dad does this too. Both you and my dad refuse to admit that Taiwanese girls are unfriendly to strangers, unapproachable and stuck up, no matter how much evidence you see to prove it.
Deep down you KNOW that's true. But for some reason, you have a need to whitewash it. It's ridiculous. Even Sean, our friend in Taiwan who has been there for 10 years, admits that me, Falcon and others are RIGHT about Taiwan. Unlike you, he has no religious need to hide the truth. Momopi admits the truth too.
The real TRUTH, that you try to whitewash over is this:
Falcon just doesn't vibe with them. He is on a different wavelength than them, and both he and they can feel it. He's not a conformist who is trying to be accepted. He does what he wants. He does not try to fit into cliques and groups. People like him (and all of us here) are different than the mainstream in Taiwan or the US. Most of us here would not vibe well in Taiwan either. The type of guys who fit into Taiwan do not usually like our behavior and tone on this forum. They prefer passiveness and political correctness.
To vibe with Taiwan girls, you have to:
- Be conformist. Not a freethinker.
- Be politically correct without unpopular views.
- Be group oriented, meaning that you seek to fit into groups because you have no individual identity.
- Be narrow-minded, not broad-minded.
- Live in fear and paranoia, which is reflected in your vibe. This means you are uncomfortable talking to strangers.
- Have a judgmental shallow mentality that says "ewww" to anything or anyone different from you.
I think pretty much all of us here would not vibe with the above. We aren't on that kind of wavelength.
The truth is, Taiwanese girls DO NOT like cold approaches. They've admitted that and told me so. It's common knowledge. 30 million Taiwanese people will admit that if asked. They prefer meeting people through classmates and workmates. To meet people in Taiwan, you go to school or get a job and connect through there. That's the way it's always been. Outside of that, they are uncomfortable with strangers. We all know that. Even you do, whether you admit it or not. The truth is the truth. It is wrong and unethical for you to try to deceive people about that.
Also, Taiwanese girls are now spoiled, bitchy and act like divas. Totally airheadish too. We all know that. Sean has reported that too. And many in the older generation of Taiwan complain about this too. The young generation's values and character have gone to shit. It's obvious for anyone to see. But for some reason, you have a need to defend it. You might as well defend American women too. The point is, that's not Falcon's fault. And it has NOTHING to do with his confidence. He simply doesn't vibe with divas, airheads, shallow people, stuck up people, snobby people, narrow people, degenerate people, cold cliquish people, materialistic people, conformists, and people who are NOT down to earth.
What's hypocritical is that you also cannot get any hot girls in Taiwan either. You only date the women that local guys don't want. So doesn't that mean that you lack confidence to get them as well? lol
Anyhow, it's obvious that you are wrong about Falcon. I know you probably won't apologize either for using cheap shaming tactics like that of American women. One thing about my friend Steve R is that he is a real man and not afraid of admitting when he's wrong. He has admitted to being wrong on many occasions when I pointed them out. So I have a lot of respect for him. In this area, he is above you because as far as I know, you've NEVER admitted to being wrong even when it was obvious or proven to you. Instead, you whitewash when cornered or checkmated.
For example, your explanation of why Russian women are more approachable than Taiwanese women are was TOTALLY and ABSOLUTELY WRONG. I pointed it out several times and you ignored it. You never apologized or admitted it. When I told Falcon about it, even he knew that you were wrong and that your logic was terrible in your explanation. I have more examples too of where you were obviously wrong about simple things. Yet not once do you ever apologize.
I wish you'd be a real man like Steve R is, and admit when you're wrong. Most men don't. But I do, and so does Steve R. Also, Steve gets it. I don't have to explain anything to him twice. He understands me fully right away. With you, I've had to explain things many times yet you still don't get it. How come Steve R understands my points and observations the first time immediately? When he gets everything I say, I wonder "Why doesn't Rock get it the way Steve does?" He understands 100 percent why I felt more alive and happier and out of my shell in Russia and Eastern Europe, for example, and he could see it in my videos. Yet all you do is try to downplay it. Very weird.
Steve may not be as well traveled as you, or knowledgeable about Asia as you, but he understands me a lot better and is on the same page. I never have to repeat anything to him. He never twists what I say. That's refreshing. And he tells it like it is and his statements are very spot on and accurate.
Btw Rock, there is a thread on this forum that you can learn a lot from called "The Myth of Confidence".
Please come down to reality and stop using whitewashing tactics and twisting/distorting things. The truth is the truth. We all hate bullshit here. I hope you will learn that deception is wrong too. Read the Boy Who Cried Wolf parable. It teaches that it's unethical to deceive.
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"It takes far less effort to find and move to the society that has what you want than it does to try to reconstruct an existing society to match your standards." - Harry Browne, How I Found Freedom in an Unfree World
More American tourists have been killed in Mexico than any other country. The number of Americans killed there have tripled from 2007 to 2011, yet in 2012 approx. 6 million Americans visited Mexico. In the 1st quarter of 2013 the number of American tourists visiting Mexico went up by 5.9%. If Americans fear visiting Mexico because of the dangers, then I guess more Americans enjoy looking for trouble down South. Hmf, I went to Mexico and got shaken down by the cops. ;p
If you add up all the Taiwanese in TW and Taiwanese overseas, I doubt you'd come close to 30 million.
In my parent's generation, couples meet by formal introductions. Your background, education, career, etc. are taken into consideration for the match. It can be said that the school that you went to (or did not went to) often dictated who you'd marry. Not necessarily because you meet your GF in college, but because the match maker prefer comparable educational backgrounds.
In my generation, couples in TW hook up in college themselves. In my younger cousin's generation, they start hooking up in High School. Dating in TW is not "easy", but one should not seek other examples of failure to justify their own lack of success. Taiwanese men do not bother with such nonsense, if they cannot find a girl locally, they'd simply import one (or export themselves to China).
Last edited by momopi on July 27th, 2016, 6:16 am, edited 1 time in total.