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Racial tensions and racism in America

Discuss racial, ethnic and multicultural issues. Warning: The topics here are likely to be taboo, so if you are easily offended, you are better off not participating here.

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zboy1
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Racial tensions and racism in America

Post by zboy1 » October 5th, 2007, 6:19 am

Hello Winston,

I want to know what you think about racism in America. It seems lately, racial tensions are getting worse and incidents like the Jena 6 case, Senator George Allen’s "maccaca" slur, the rising anti-immigrant sentiments, Hurricane Katrina and the aftermath, and the Don Imus controversy, illustrate how America is not as united as it tries to portray to the rest of the world. Honestly, I'm getting tired of all the racial politics and the BS and all the racial divisions and hatreds that exist in this country. Everything is divided along racial, political, religious, and class lines. You can practically feel the racial tensions in the air here.


I know racism exists in other countries, but from the time I've spent overseas--I've noticed that Europeans, Canadians, even some Latin Americans, are more open about racial issues than American’s are, and don't have the same hangups about race as American's do. American's tend to be obsessed with identifying with groups and hating those people that tend to be outside of their comfort zone. Not so, with many of the foreigners I've met. They are more open about cultures and are very knowledgeable about the rest of the world...unlike American's who despise the world outside of their country. And don’t even get me started about all the violence here in America and the absurd crime rates compared to the rest of the industrialized world!

Why is this case here in America, a country that is supposedly the melting pot of the world? Is it because of America’s extreme form of capitalism or can the blame be placed on the radical individualism of the country.

The_Adventurer
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Post by The_Adventurer » October 5th, 2007, 8:29 am

According to Wikipedia:

"The beating followed a number of racially-charged incidents in the town, which began when three white students hung nooses from a tree at Jena High school the day after a black student asked if he and his friends could sit under the tree."

I and my family have lived in the south for most of my life. My brother currently lives in Louisiana. I can't speak specifically for the town of Jena, but the idea that old school racism against blacks has somehow gone away is completely absurd.

I continue to experience racism as a daily fact of life. From what I hear from my brothers and other family members, racism in the south is as bad as it ever was.

I, however, choose to hold a more positive outlook and believe that unity in America and the world is only a matter of time.
“b***y is so strong that there are dudes willing to blow themselves up for the highly unlikely possibility of b***y in another dimension." -- Joe Rogan

Enishi
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Post by Enishi » October 5th, 2007, 9:27 am

Most of the black guys I've met where I live have been allright. The people who get on my nerves the most are the African American females. They're like AWs multiplied to the tenth power. They act rude and uncivilized, then, when people call them out on it, claim "its cuz I'm black".

Stuff like that is going to do little more than foster increased racial tensions. With the biased focus on 'evil white males' in the media, things are going to keep getting worse and worse.

I just hope I can get out of this country when the shit hits the fan.

The_Adventurer
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Post by The_Adventurer » October 5th, 2007, 5:14 pm

gordan wrote:So according to you it's ok to beat up someone if they offend you, no matter how it's construed.
If that's what you gleaned from my writing, then I can only assume that, based on your writing, you are too consumed with rage and hatred to make any further discussion fruitful.

That someone would even suggest that certain people should be taken and shot or hung is a sad and frightening concept.
“b***y is so strong that there are dudes willing to blow themselves up for the highly unlikely possibility of b***y in another dimension." -- Joe Rogan

ladislav
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Post by ladislav » October 6th, 2007, 2:31 am

America is non-racist formally and racist informally. Meaning, there are laws in place to protect you. Immigrants are fairly easily ( or not easily but eventually) naturalized and can get passports and all. If you study, you can advance and get great jobs and all. You just need qualifications and be smart and hard working.

Now, when it comes to socializing, dating, friendship and informal things, it will make Henrik Verwoerd envious.

In case you do not know who he is:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Verwoerd

This goes for most Anglo-Saxon countries.

Spanish/Portuguese colonies as well as Arab countries are the opposite. Socially they are very open and friendly and you can mingle with people. However, once it comes to professional advancement/jobs/businesses, etc., discrimination starts of the kind you will not even see in the US.

Europeans and Canadians are more open? Well, maybe the ones whom you have seen as travelers. Canadians put Ukrainians in concentration camps. Did you live as an immigrant or a minority in Canada? I had friends who did and it aint' no picnic either.

Europe has had the Holocaust, remember? The ones that do not travel may not be so good. Remember Paris riots? People who are citizens and who have Arab origins have a hard time there. Unless you have lived there as a minority yourself, you would never know what it would be like.

Melting Pot does work but it takes three generations for most people to be accepted as Americans.

The best and least racist countries are Spanish and Portuguese colonies ( Philippines included).

Conclusion: use America as a money/business/education and investment or credit base. It has all the benefits.

I was near bankrupt ten years ago and had to work with CC counselors.
Now it is all paid and I have new credit cards. I also went to school and got loans and all to pay for tuition to go to school.

Can you get those in Brazil, Philippines, etc. Don't make me laugh.

So, you combine a country that is friendly formally with the one that is friendly informally. Problem solved.
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The_Adventurer
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Post by The_Adventurer » October 6th, 2007, 11:32 am

The idea that it's "pretty reasonable" that two black men, with whom one disagrees, should be taken out and hung or shot belongs on a KKK website or, better still, lost in the 1950's or some previous era.

I think I've read more than enough. There's plenty of prejudice and hatred in real life such that I don't need to see it here. I'll not be returning to this forum.
“b***y is so strong that there are dudes willing to blow themselves up for the highly unlikely possibility of b***y in another dimension." -- Joe Rogan

ozmodius
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Post by ozmodius » October 6th, 2007, 1:40 pm

(Sigh)....

Terrence is right, it isn't reasonable to string up 2 men you disagree with. I personally don't like either Jackson or Sharpton. I think both of them are media whores pursing THEIR own agendas that have nothing to do with the "black" community. But I still wouldn't "hang them up" or "shoot them". Gordon, buddy you might want to get some help for your anger.

As far as the "Jena 6", the way I understand the story is that some nooses were put on trees. The people who did were caught and punished, then a white student, who nothing to do with the noose incident, was jumped and beat by multiple people. The assailants were arrested. Then the Media swooped in. The way I understand it is if a group of people commit a racial crime against another group of people, then anyone in the first group is a target for retailation. Very scary....

My father was robbed, gun to his head, TWICE in year. Both times by young black men. Does this mean that all young black man should be punished for these crimes? I have known alot of people in my life, and most of them are just trying to live their lives. Unfortunately, like both political parties, only the extremes are reported on.

One last thing I think that people should understand. Where I work we have little kids come in for tours. When they eat lunch, they segegrate themselves by race. I don't think that this is a bad thing, because people tend to want to associate with people like them. Rich with Rich. Poor with Poor. Intelligent with intelligent. Drug users with Drug users. Athletes with Athletes. It's human nature to want to be around people you have a SHARED interest or experience with. The problems start when people exclude others based on EXTERNAL factors. You don't read about Nerds suing atheletes for discriminating against them and excluding them.

Ozmodius

ladislav
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Post by ladislav » October 6th, 2007, 2:26 pm

When they eat lunch, they segegrate themselves by race. I don't think that this is a bad thing, because people tend to want to associate with people like them.
American people, I think, like to do that. I lived in the Spanish speaking Caribbean and nothing like this was happening. At lunch kids of all colors mixed and made friends with each other. Same would happen in Brazil most of the time. But "rich" were with "rich", and the poor would be honored to have a rich person around.

It is the same in the United Arab emirates- kids of all colors playing together.

And the Emiratis ( as well as Qataris) come in different colors- from very white, European looking to very very Black. All mix. Islam prohibits racism. People gather there based on friendship, not skin color.

It is amazing what things you see when you go abroad. Things like the way Americans behave does not necessarily represent the way people in other countries behave.

One thing many Americans do when describing human behavior- they attribute American behavior to the entire human race and start using the words people do this to describe certain American characteristics.

I find the voluntary racial segregation in the US disgusting, but I understand why it is happening too. If you are rejected for 200 years by people of another color, you will be scared to approach them and will instead go to the safety of your race. But that is again, that way in America.
Last edited by ladislav on June 16th, 2008, 12:24 pm, edited 4 times in total.
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LukeSkywalker
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Terrence Please Come Back!

Post by LukeSkywalker » October 6th, 2007, 4:37 pm

No Terrence!!

Please don't leave Terrence. Terrence, I always enjoyed what you had to say. Terrence, please do not go away. I loved the stuff that you had to say, Terrence.

LukeSkywalker
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Post by LukeSkywalker » October 6th, 2007, 4:40 pm

Hey Wu,

You're much more of a social person and a people person than I am. And I think that Ladislav is the same way. Do you guys know of any way that we could convince Terrence to come back?

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Post by Winston » April 16th, 2008, 4:00 pm

LukeSkywalker wrote:Hey Wu,

You're much more of a social person and a people person than I am. And I think that Ladislav is the same way. Do you guys know of any way that we could convince Terrence to come back?
W: I emailed him and tried to get him to come back, as his contributions here were excellent, but he is too busy with work and freelance projects and can't afford the time now.
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Post by Winston » April 16th, 2008, 4:05 pm

To the person who started this thread asking what I think of racism in America:

Well isn't it obvious that I hate the racism here, esp against Asian American men, which I am one of? That's one reason why I'm "happier abroad" so to speak.

But I don't want to get into a long winded discussion about why it's that way or various social issues in the media. I don't even watch the news. I find it boring and irrelevant.

It's better to just go somewhere interesting where you're happy. Remember, location and chemistry are everything, not attitude, though attitude is important too. But location and chemistry are what make the real difference. At least in my experience.
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ladislav
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Re: Racial tensions and racism in America

Post by ladislav » May 15th, 2008, 3:29 pm

I want to know what you think about racism in America. It seems lately, racial tensions are getting worse and incidents like the Jena 6 case, Senator George Allen’s "maccaca" slur, the rising anti-immigrant sentiments, Hurricane Katrina and the aftermath, and the Don Imus controversy, illustrate how America is not as united as it tries to portray to the rest of the world.
I think racism has alway been part of it. It is just that now it is being condemned more and exposed more because of improved communications. Also, before, no one thought that being racist was bad. Some 100-200 yers ago it was far worse. It was worse 40 years ago, too.

Honestly, I'm getting tired of all the racial politics and the BS and all the racial divisions and hatreds that exist in this country. Everything is divided along racial, political, religious, and class lines. You can practically feel the racial tensions in the air here.
Yup, that is absolutely true.
I know racism exists in other countries, but from the time I've spent overseas--I've noticed that Europeans, Canadians, even some Latin Americans, are more open about racial issues than American’s are, and don't have the same hangups about race as American's do.

That is mainly because they do not have that many other races allowed into their country in such enormous amounts. When these are allowed, all kinds of hell erupt. And yes, these foreigners will be more open about US races but what about their own problems? And which foreigners did you talk to? The ones who were of a more liberal class? Those people will not have the same view of races as a Slovakian plumber who you will probably never meet and never talk to. And also, did you try to be a poor Arab looking for work in those countries? Did you try to be a poor Black man or a poor Vietnamese looking for work and dates there? See how they would greet you. You try being one there and then will talk.

Yeah, right, Europeans are more open my **s. Can you read some Slavic languages? Get online and read some Serbian or other E European bulletin boards and see what they say about other races. You will shudder.

All the race incidents in the US are immediately exposed. What about such incidents in other countries? In many, they will go unnoticed or if reported, they will be in the local language and not attract US media attention and you will not read about them.

American's tend to be obsessed with identifying with groups and hating those people that tend to be outside of their comfort zone. Not so, with many of the foreigners I've met. They are more open about cultures and are very knowledgeable about the rest of the world...
True in some sense and not true in others. Ask a survivor of a Kosovo massacre and see what they have to say. Ask a Black man living in Germany.
unlike American's who despise the world outside of their country. And don’t even get me started about all the violence here in America and the absurd crime rates compared to the rest of the industrialized world!
Well, there are scales of racism and again, you will need to compare those country by county. It is a complicated subject. Do you want to be a dark man in Russia? Also, in Ukraine every four months another foreign student ( non white) is found dead. You don't know those things because you do not live in those countries and do not work there as a minority that the people there hate. You also do not read their newspapers, do you?

Having said all that, here is my take on escaping racism- ex-Spanish ( and other Latin- Portuguese, French, etc) colonies have infinitely less racism ( only some 5% of ) vis-a-vis you and me, than Anglo Saxon and other Germanic countries. So, if you want to escape the US racism, you need to go there. But you'd better have money when you go and live there because they will not support you or help you.

Many other countries such as Russia practice selective racism- they hate some groups, but not others. You would not want to be a Semite in Russia or a Black man but being an Ango Saxon will bring you great fortune as well as being a Serb or a Czech.
Why is this case here in America, a country that is supposedly the melting pot of the world? Is it because of America’s extreme form of capitalism or can the blame be placed on the radical individualism of the country.
The US Melting Pot melts over several generations and with great difficulty. You need to go to Brazil to see the Melting Pot or even the Philippines.

Why things this way in America?

Settled by the English, who were a nasty island people and who brought their snobberies into the New World. Not very sexually charged, they did not mingle with the natives the way Spaniards and Portuguese would. They brough enormous numbers of totally unrelated peoples from all corners of the world into their country. Their snobberies poisoned the social atmosphere and penetrated every sphere of life in the US.

But they were efficient and hard working. So, the country runs well, unlike the relaxed Latin colonizers whose former colonies never seem to work. Just use the latter for social life and use America for investment, credit, banking, money and other such practical things. No need to waste time or rack one's brains over the 'why this and why that?".

Another point to keep in mind- in America, there is a lot of racism that is of social variety- people hanging around their race groups, not socializing with other groups, etc. Yes, it is cliquish, all right. But at work and in professional/practical things it has been significantly reduced. There are laws that protect minorities and when you apply for a job things like religion, birthplace, ancestry, your native language are forbidden to be mentioned. In many other countries no such laws exist. You have to state your religion, birthplace and other such sensitive things on job applications. In Japan, there are no laws that would be enforced when landlords do not want to rent you an apartment- and most will not. In Belgium landlords hang out signs- "No Foreigners", and in Austria, they even say it in the newspapers in rental ads- "No Foreigners". But those signs are in German and in Japanese so you cannot read them, probably. Can you?

In many ( if not most) countries when they advertise jobs they say "Female Only". Or they put 25-42 ( age) limit and will not hire anyone above that age. Read some Dubai newspapers- have you read any lately? - a huge advertisement in the 'help wanted' section- "Arabs Only" or "Westerners Only". Unbelievable!

In ex-Spanish/Portuguese colonies people are socially very friendly and not cliquish but when it comes to jobs and professional things and giving you money, racism,classism, sexism, ageism bloom like un ugly mushroom cloud. They are the opposite of the US in that sense.

In Indonesia, after 26 you are an old man and no one wants to hire you and a 28 year old woman in the Philippines is an old maid whom no one wants, either.

Live around the world, man, try to look for jobs and apartments and see how things are.

In Africa, the tribal hatred is as viscious if not even more viscious than the US racism.

It is all not as easy as you think.

However, here is the deal- if you are an ( light skinned) American ( or any other Westerner) with money to support yourself and are traveling in Russia or ex-Spanish/Portuguese colonies looking for friends and girlfriends, you will have a smorgasboard of girls and friends. But even then, there is hatred and jealousy and dishonesty. You will see all that when you start traveling.

Conclusion: to escape American social racism, get some money/find a source of independent income and go to the Philippines, Latin America and other such places where there are many poor people who are not hung up on your race socially. Find out which would be the best place for you to go to based on who and what you are and find out if you on the hate list of those countries. Asian Americans should go to Thailand, White people are better off in Brazil, the PI and Colombia as well as Russia, but in most places, you will still have to put up with a whole bunch of bs. Well, at least ,you will not be lonely although a time will come when you will want to be left alone as the giant sucking sound of " Please help me with your dollars!" will start getting on your nerves at some point. Well, at least you will have no trouble getting laid but even that gets tiresome after a while.
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Mr S
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I totally agree!

Post by Mr S » May 16th, 2008, 8:11 pm

Conclusion: to escape American social racism, get some money/find a source of independent income and go to the Philippines, Latin America and other such places where there are many poor people who are not hung up on your race socially. Find out which would be the best place for you to go to based on who and what you are and find out if you on the hate list of those countries. Asian Americans should go to Thailand, White people are better off in Brazil, the PI and Colombia as well as Russia, but in most places, you will still have to put up with a whole bunch of bs. Well, at least ,you will not be lonely although a time will come when you will want to be left alone as the giant sucking sound of " Please help me with your dollars!" will start getting on your nerves at some point. Well, at least you will have no trouble getting laid but even that gets tiresome after a while.
I agree with everything in this posting. I left the states and used the international English teaching educational marketplace to do so. Native speakers don't know how blessed they are being a native English speaker, this makes it very easy to live and work in another country legally. I suggest you take advantage of this while it lasts as more and more countries are beginning to produce their own teachers as each generation becomes better at speaking English.

All you really need is an undergraduate degree in English or education or another subject area with a TEFL or Celta/Delta. Having a masters in an educational area is a big bonus and will allow you to work the more lucrative teaching jobs. This would allow you to have the means to save, travel and pay off bills and such. It only takes two years and with the internet you can do a distant program while you are working and teaching overseas, this is what I did.

I just consider western countries as a means to invest and monitor my money while I use the other countries mentioned for the social side of my life.

And it is true that after a while getting laid does get old! I never thought I would ever say that, but it does. When you are overseas for the first time you will finally wake up and realize how sexually repressed Americans are. At first you will go nuts and hump everything you can but then eventually it becomes so easy like going to 7-11 for a beer, it loses its excitement and meaning. So you will search for other ways to fill your time, not just trying to score with different women.

Non-western women are so different in attitude from western women men really won't understand until they drag their ass out of the states or whichever western country they live in.

I can honestly say I have true personal freedom now and feel comfortable knowing I can get laid and meet a woman whenever I want to. If I don't want to be around one, i don't and this is a personal lifestyle choice; unlike in the states where its mostly forced upon a guy.
"The object of life is not to be on the side of the majority but to escape finding oneself in the ranks of the insane." Marcus Aurelius, Roman Emperor and stoic philosopher, 121-180 A.D.

Repatriate
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Post by Repatriate » June 15th, 2008, 9:32 pm

Race is a delicate issue in the U.S. only because it's become a national obsession. Just reading over these posts it's obvious who the long term expats are. The ones who feel comfortable in their skin and don't feel the need to go on and on about this colored man or that one are the ones who have left that behind. Who gives a damn about all that. I'm far from being a liberal but I find this type of racial tribalism to be a nuisance. Yes, it's inevitable you'll run into some variation of it everywhere in the world but it is what it is..a nuisance and it brings nothing positive to my life. It's a catalyst for conflict and never ending aggravation.

Latin America does sound appealing for its different views on racial differences. I am an Asian-American living in Thailand currently and it's great here but I want to broaden my horizons. I will probably travel there sometime as it is a racially mixed region and I know for a fact that Asians have had a long history of accepted assimilation into several countries within that region. Whether I decide to settle into a Latin American country or not is another story but I would like to travel around there to get a good idea of what it's about.

To those that are still in the race mindset..just look around you sometime. If you are really so obsessed over not being around "ghetto blacks" or whatever then go to an area without them. Stop listening to stupid ass sensationalist U.S. media reports that tend to just inflame existing tension. You will live a healthier life without riling yourselves up over every little perceived insult over your "race." The media and politics in America seems to gain a lot through watching the racially balkanized lower and middle classes squabbling over scraps.

People are people and once again Ladislav is exactly right. You find a place where you are the most accepted and where you can maximize your happiness and manage to accumulate some wealth as well. That's all there is to it.

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