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For Asian Americans to discuss Asian American issues and topics.
Are East-Asian-heritage Americans discriminated against due to Affirmative Action? (This is the title I wanted, but there was not enough space for it.)
AIUI, there are many East-Asian-heritage Americans in these in forums, so I figure that they would have strong experience of this.
http://www.economist.com/news/briefing/ ... ining-ever
Of course, Asians are discriminated due to idiotic AA policies. Yet, some Asians still believe in the 'American Dream' Myth, and want to immigrate to Anglo countries. News Alert! Stay in Asia because you'll be treated better and because the whole region is an economic powerhouse and will prosper in the future.
I don't understand why Asians want to go to the Anglo World. Stay home you idiots!
I am white, but I agree that Asians are discriminated against because of AA. I am surprised that more Asian Americans don't complain, although maybe this is changing. Affirmative action helps some groups at the expense of talented white and Asian men. This is why high-IQ white and Asian men often struggle while less talented members of other groups find it easy to get a job.
We do complain and bring up issues of being discriminated by this stupid policy of affirmative action.
There is also a recent lawsuit filed by several Asian-Americans who were discriminated by Harvard university's admission committe.....placing a "cap" on the number of Asian students who were admitted to Harvard.
So funny. Prior to attending college, I attended a summer program for high school students at Cornell University in Ithaca, NY.
You won't believe many of the minority students, the puerto rican and black students, who could not even pronounce words. I also knew a large crown of black people who attended that Cornell summer program who literally attended lecture and SLEPT in the back of the lecture hall while the professor was giving a lecture on the subject.
What a f--king joke!
Harvard and other Ivy League institutes are churning out some of the dumbest bimbos from under-represented minority groups who attend Ivy League institutes.
Why not make affirmative action for us Asians to play in the NFL or the NBA?
This is why I am not a big fan of living here in the US. I always dream of going abroad, but stuck in this f***ing matrix, cold distant people, mean, racist people I bump into at companies I used to work at, even when i go shopping at the grocery store.
What is really Ironic about this statement is many Asians in Asia believe that this is true ONLY in America/ the West. When I run in to Asians who have traveled, worked or went to school somewhere in the Anglo world, they overly praise the west, but they give superficial reasons.They always give boguS reasons, one of which usually is scripted with "oh, it is free". When I ask them, what do you mean by free? They respond to shallow reasons such as " no one judges how I dress" , as if Being told how to dress is some sort of Tyrannical oppression. or they'll say "people smile alot more" or " people are more out going". It seems that their definition of freedom is on a social level in which they are looking for the freedom to be individuals where as people from the west mean the freedom from Government or other higher powers.
The reason they want to go to the Anglo world is because they have a romanticized vision of how it is from the movies/media than what it actually is. They believe that place (especially the US) is the land of 72 virgins and the garden of eden where Adam and Eve once lived. They think that American/Western people are extremely friendly open, and american women make great girlfriends, They believe that there is so much opportunity that you would have to be ultra lazy to can't find work, they believe that there is no social law in which you can literally do what ever you want (Not being judged on the name brand they wear = Freedom from oppression and slaughter) No matter how many times I try to tell them the social toxicity in the west, they think I am just some foolish foreigner! 99% have no idea what life is truly like even if you showed them videos and news sources and they think I have a mental issue or you are on the run from the US government.
I hope hollywood dies a slow, long painful death!!!!!
They both benefit from it AND suffer because of it.
But you have to look at the realms of education and employment differently.
In higher education, Asians suffer BIG TIME. Asians are passed over by lesser credentialed whites and everyone else in favor of achieving demographic balance among student bodies. The Supreme Court ruled that race can be a "plus factor" in university admissions and Asians get the short shrift. Had that not be
In employment, it is a bit different. It is still unlawful to refuse to hire Asians in favor of other groups if they are the best qualified. Where some Asians tend to lack the ability to socially integrate into certain workplace cultures, they get passed over for hire and or promotion. Again, this is only some. I see some Asians doing extremely well in several spheres including medicine, law, and government. But those tend to be the ones who are not as culturally insular and are "mainstream" by disposition.
All men are discriminated against in favor of women to include Asian men. Any one with half a brain knows that gender affirmative action makes ethnic affirmative action pale by comparison!
Well, if you look at the bigger picture, the Asians in Asian live a really tough life. Yes, me and you and bunch of others here whine about life in the US or whichever Western country you live in.
However, if you look at the education system in East Asian countries, whether it be South Korea, Japan or China, students are studying so much, having little to no social life.
While it is true that once students in S. Korea or Japan get into college, they just like to party. Prior to college, students are waking up early, going to school, studying, taking exams.
In East Asian schools, you don't want to look stupid. You have to excel in order to get into a good high school, and in the good high school, you have to study hard to get into a top-notch college.
I know that students, high school students in particular, attend cram schools after they finish their school. The cram school usually goes from 5PM or 6PM to 10 or 11PM at night! That is crazy! I know because my distant cousin in Korea told me horror stories of how she had to only sleep for four to five hours a night just to stay on top of her studies to be competitive in class.
So because of that oppressive, lack of social life, lifestyle in East Asian and even certain SE Asian nations, a lot of them tend to view the US, Canada or other western nations in a more favorable light. And due to that, a good handful of immigrants from East Asian countries tend to want to escape the hard shitty lifestyle that they have experienced while growing up in a certain East Asian country.
Yes, i too hope hollywood die a slow painful death.
However, a lot of East Asians have a favorable and a more "romanticized" vision of the US, not only because of the media and western garbage movies, but also word of mouth through friends or relatives who have immigrated to the US for college/university or for work.
It is much harder right now, for college graduates to find a freaking job in S. Korea or even Japan.
I was watching the Korean new last year where a small blurb of the news mentioned how one college graduate in S. Korea was working as valet parking attendant. Damn, that really sucks. Plus if he has student loans to pay back, I don't know how his parking valet job will give him enough income to pay back some of his students loans and also to save money to become independent to live away from his parents. Trust me, people in East Asia are becoming more "westernized" and have youngsters trying to move out from their parents' home.
Okay, that was my spiel about why Asians want to come to the US.
The US is only good for job opportunities and education opportunities.
For social life or for a romantic life to find a girlfriend, the US sucks really bad.
Yes, Everything you said here is confrimed 100% on point. My best friend is Japanese. I also had one girl from Central China (she now lives in germany) who I was kind of close with who both told me the exact same thing as you pointed out. The chinese girl told me she was forced to study all the way up to 1AM everyday and still had to wake up 5 hours later to go to school. and If I am not mistaken, This kind of lfestyle is one of the sole reasons why suicide rates in East Asia is very high because failure (weither in school or getting fired from a good job) is pretty much a social death sentence and a loss of face that is very hard to recover from. Ironically I did notice that (chinese) immigrants who usually came to my city in New york often held the same standards towards their kids to uphold the Study study study mentality that they were supposedly trying to get away from...
Yes, I am very well aware of "Hell Chosun" , in fact many Koreans tell me about it all the time when I meet them here in Kyrgyzstan/Kazakhstan. They tell me how much they hate living there, Everyone expects you to work your ass off, 80 hrs a week, with so much debt to pay off, while trying to pay an ultra expensive tiny itty bitty room working at some BS job while your boss is constantly breathing down your neck. I am also told that culturly it is unacceptable to NOT work, even if you are already wealthy, making passive income, or living as a minimalist, people will often look down on you as a disgrace.
The only answer I have to the many people who want to come to the US is , let them. There is nothing anyone can do or say that is going to change their minds until they really see it for themselves and in some cases , it seems some of them are truly happy in the US. I guess this is their "HappierAbroad". To each their own I guess.
As much as I dislike South East Asian Mentality, it seems like it is a place where you can at least have a social life, or even a romantic partner, if you are into SEA girls. So maybe Ladislav is correct on using many countries in what they each has to offer.
I personally, would rather live and settle in East Asia, and maybe go to SEA, Thailand, to run from winter, and maybe use Central Asia as secret vacation base or something.
Why is this even an issue? Everyone but the Jews and their subhuman pets are discriminated against by affirmative action.
Of course, Asians are discriminated against but they vote Democrat. So what do they expect? The left has started viewing Asians like they do white people: a privileged group that needs to be thrown under the bus so that other groups can have a chance to succeed.
Yup, that east Asian education system is horrendous and the pressure to do well is high, or be considered an "outcast" if you fail. This is one reason east Asian immigrants are happy to immigrate to the US or other Western nations. So much work work work,,....study study study. And it's not just school work that can be over bearing. It's also the regular work environment too. Too much cut-throat competition, people trying to out each other to impress their boss. I think it's not too bad compared to the US. But the peer pressure to attend parties and dinners with your co-workers after work is done is a big thing. I don't know if this is true in China. But in Korea, a lot of co-workers/colleagues go out drinking and have dinner together after dinner, and they are out drinking until 2AM. And this is also done even if there is work the next day.
For me, I like independence. I don't go out with a lot of my co-workers because people here in the US are more individualistic/independent, and usually spend more time with their families or non-workplace friends.
The only downside about living in the US, at least for me, is that it's hard to find a date, and girls here tend to be white-washed and trashy. I am not kidding you.
The US is only good for work, making money, and the college/university education system. Otherwise, the US is crime-ridden, people tend to be cold, isolated, anti-social, fake/superficial.
By the way, are you a Kazakhstani person? Or are you an American person who happened to move to central Asia?
I know that there are a lot of ethnic Koreans living in Kazakhstan and moreso, in Uzbekistan. I don't know why. I guess back during WWII, a lot of Koreans fled Korea from the Japanese imperial military rule over the Korean peninsula.
Yup, that is right. work work work. that is the only downside to growing up and living in an East Asian country.
however, I have noticed that compared to the past, people in S. Korea tend to take a lot more vacations these days.
LOL! That is so true if you look at it at their (immigrant peoples') angle. Happier abroad in the US or Canada for the East Asian immigrants to flee a heavy work or study life.
But...at the same time, I know a LOT of Koreans who have returned back to Korea because they realize that the US is not the land of milk and honey. racism, being mistreated, having mean customers, police not helping you out, bullying in school, etc, makes immigrants return back to home.
I know ONE major factor that makes Korean business owners move back to Korea is the ridiculous TAXATION laws here in the US.
Every freaking money that you earn is taxed to every penny that you make. Business owners have to pay state tax, local city tax, federal tax. Tax tax tax tax!!! Ridiculous!
By the time you get your net income, you get jack shit left to support your family.
At least in Korea, the government there does not tax you to death. At least not yet. But who knows, the government there may copy the US government's taxation system in the near future.
Nope, I am an American person, New Yorker, who left the US to Central Asia. My original goal was to live in East Asia because I love East Asia and it's culture (aside from the work and drinking culture) but just like you said earlier, it is a little bit too expensive for me at the moment. So I am temporarily living in Central Asia, Kyrgyzstan/Kakzakhstan, untill I make enough to move to the East. My first alternative was going to be thailand or another SEA country but there were two benefits in staying in Central Asia, one being that Living here is actually alot much cheaper than living in SEA and secondly, I strongly dislike SEA culture despite I may actually get along with the locals there well. I lived here for almost a year and I guess it's not so bad once you get past the nomadic cultural traditions.
The reason why there are many Koreans in Central Asia, from what I am told, is because during soviet times, maybe a little bit before, the Koreans that lived in what is today North Korea had moved up further north to the far east amoung the native turkic nomads. The reason was simply because there were more oppritunities and economic development versus stayng in Korea. The koreans in Far East, North Asia, were well established and even had their own towns and were the only ethnic group out of all natives at the time who were allowed to speak their own language without being forced to learn Russian. At that time,When Stalin became in power, he deported them striaght to Central Asia. I think the reason for this was because the koreans at the time refused to integrate and refused to become soviet citizens or because they refused to pay taxes or something of the like. The Koreans here in CA all speak Russian and many of them do not speak Korean. in fact, they are the only Asians who adopted Russian names while, Kyrgyz, Kazahks, Mongols and others keep their own traditional names. There is a Joke here in Kyrgyzstan that if an Asian person has a Russian name, he is definietly Korean. The Central Asian Koreans here are the most humble, kind and friendly people I have ever met. They always say "Privet" or Hello when they randomly see me on the street. But even here, they also maintain the study study study/work work work mentality.
And they rightfully should! The worse feeling in the world is knowing that one has wasted their lives away working like a dog only to realize at old age that they were other ways to balance work life and find one's own means of a fufiling life rather than trying to keep up with a cutthroat environment!
Korean Koreans along with Japanese and Chinese are some of the work hard working people I have ever met. I remember for the first time I asked one girl out and she said yes. I was so freakng happy (and scared for my life). She told me, "on my next day off we can eat dinner somewhere"! everyday, I would come visit to see her, only to find out she had to work another 12 hour shift. I would see her everday only just to get dissapointed . eventually I just gave up. I do not even think she ever got a day off because she would had texted me if she did as we would message eachother everyday.
What do they do when they return home? Do they instead go to another country. If I were ever able to meet forigners who came and left the US to try Europe as they have a more balanced work life. or maybe I am wrong?
If I am not mistaken, isn't Korean culture today based on what was the ancient aritocrats?
I agree in this day and age it can be overly toxic for east asian-americans in the U.S. Maybe it was better for previous generations back in the 60's or 70's, but major differences now are that the U.S. is overpopulated , strained and very divisive, with a dead manufacturing sector and a perennially lousy job market with most good & professional jobs gone, massive income disparity with multiplied costs of living, class and cultural envy, and lost mobility of a dead middle class and american "dream".
Which part of East Asia were you planning on living in? China? Japan? S. Korea?
Ohhh yeah, I can definitely see why you had decided to leave NYC. It's a decent city to visit, but I myself would never want to live in that over-priced hell hole. Traffic, rude people, super fast paced life.
Surprisingly, people on the East Coast, once you get to know them, tend to be social, and I tend to form a good bond with them, compared to west coast folks. Strange. But if you compare NYC to other international places to visit, I would leave nyc in a heart beat.
Wow, sorry to hear that you dislike SE Asian culture. I want to check out Thailand one of these days, which may never come true. Sad.
I give you lots of credit for moving away from the US and to work a lower paying job in Central Asia. Which country were you planning on moving to after your stay in Kazakhstan?
Nice! Great and glad to learn a lot from you about Central Asian ethnic Koreans's culture and heritage.
Dang, I did not know your average Korean was that busy. Otherwise, she was making excuses to maybe not see you?
When Koreans who were living in the US, return back to Korea, they tend to open up their own businesses there. I guess a lot of Koreans who come to the US do not know a lot about the tax laws. It is common to hear on the news about Mr. Lee or Mr. Pak get arrested because of their "backlog" of tax payments, or trying to pull the "tax evasion sh-t" on the IRS because these Korean business owners want to retain a lot of their income. When some of these Korean business owners realize that they're losing a shitload of money due to required tax payments, and they do not make a good/decent income, they close shop, declare bankruptcy, and a lot of them tend to move back to Korea. I guess these Korean immigrants got a nice wake up call from rude uncle sam and the US government in terms of their tax theif policy.
I don't get what you're trying to tell me, Carnio. Korean culture today is slowly turning into being similar to western culture. The girls there are picky and people tend to be very materialistic.
Even the young Korean girls attending some kind of church in Korea can be slutty on the sidelines.
The S. Korean government does not tax business owners like crazy, like how the US government and local/state government tax/ass rapes small businesses here in the US. Hence, the Korean business owners living in S. Korea tend to take home a good amount of income.
My main original goal was/is Japan, as I am pre-intermediate level at the language and am far more familiar with Japanese culture than the other two countries. I have already been to Japan, (and China but not Korea) but I am looking to go to the western portion of Japan, as in Kyushyu, Chukoku, or Shikouku, far away from the tourisity areas where there are no forigners. I already some friends who will help me settle there once I am ready to go there next year.
On the other hand, It does not mater to me if it is Korea, China or Japan. I have friends in all three countries who are waiting to do business with me and settle in any of the three countries I choose, all who have just enough connections to get me to stay long term. it's just a matter of when I am mentally and financially stable enough to be on the move again.
The reason I dislike the culture so much is due to the fact that I am a huge Introvert. Cultures like SEA or South America/Post Spainard colonized Cultures that are In your face, in your business, Party now work later kind of mentality is a huge turn off. At least in Kazakhstan/Kyrgyzstan they are only that way because they have never seen a foreigner and are genuinely interested in you. but afterwards they will give you your personal space when needed. SEA/"Latin" cultures do not respect that and treat you like you are some psycho criminal who is going to shoot up schools or are planning some evil plot. I am very reserved and am not very outgoing (Unless we are talking about certain topics of interest).
I am also a big reader. I love to read and am curious about a lot of things. I also like watch documentaries and other academic topics to get my brain spinning. Most of these guys are only interested in boring things that I would lose interest and they often times lose interest in my hobbies. It is a dead end interaction which wastes my time which is a huge peeve of mine.
Why can't you go? Is it cause of financial restrictions?
The crazy thing about this is, It is lower pay by western (USA) standard of living, but it is far more plentiful by the Standards in Almaty (and other cities in the country) I don't want to reveal how I make my income, but it pays the bills and rent with only working just a few hours a week.
In fact, you can make much more than the average local to the point that I am border line upper middle class, only from working just a few hours a week as a flimsy English teacher. I am NOT an English teacher but I cannot tell you how many people and companies would harass me to teach their students for so much money (by Kazakhstan standards) even when I tell them that I have never taught English before in my life, Never went to school for English classes and I am not very good at English grammar, despite me being a Native speaker.
If I am not mistaken, in the 80s, South Korea and Japan were the places English teachers can go and would live finically well off. This is not true anymore today but I can tell you it is true in both Kazakhstan and Kyrgyzstan! There are many African Men who speak piss poor English and the companies hire them as if they are going out of business. I am not talking about any small school at some village some where, I am talking international Business schools and International companies like Samsung, hires them and pays them in US dollars. One girl told me that she has an English Teacher who is from Africa and the guy makes $1000, a month. $1000 a month means you are of upper middle class if not lower upper class!
(In their eyes, Black men = Native English speakers/Americans)
Most of the time you are making a lesson plan and just have a conversation with the students because most of the students will NOT allow local teachers to teach them. They ONLY want native speakers or worst case foreigners who can at least speak the language even if they are just as bad as the students!
and then you have this internalized racism towards each other, in which companies will pay YOU more than locals just because you are a foreigner because it is the standard mindset that foreigners are far more educated and harder working than their own locals. I was dating a local Kazakh girl and she told me that if you can speak English, they will hire you as a foreigner regardless of you credentials. I guess I see where some of the posters on this forum are coming from when they say things like Asians are "self-hating" although I do not think it is the right word to use.
to answer your question next regarding which destination, It was originally going to be Mongolia, to complete my Central Asia trip, in which I would travel from Kazakhstan through China to Mongolia all on land/border passings, but due to politics, it is not possible for any foreigner to get a Chinese visa in this part of the world. So, I will just fly to Hong Kong and remain there between Hong Kong and Macau for the time being. I plan to still visit Mongolia as I have a female Mongol friend that I have been dying to meet for almost two years now. afterwards, it will be Korea for awhile as I have two great friends who I met with back in Bishkek. We will have a blast when I get there.
Well, don't forget, Koreans have the same business culture as Japan, it is heavily ingrained in them, just like the Anglo Saxons, that working is the meaning of life. Add a little bit of "Keeping up with the Kims/Jones" in there and you have a recipe of workaholics and consumerism.
Nope, she wasn't like that. I don't even think her parents had a problem with us meeting or hanging out. It's just that Koreans, as a whole, are the most Confucius minded than even China. hence working is placed high on the priority list over other things.
Yes, that is the same thing that happens to the Kazakhs here. They worship US/New York like it is the holy Mecca. Then Study/Work there and see that all the amount of taxes that robbing them , in addition to the culture shocks (what they thought US was from watch LoserWood) and them come back hugely disappointed. Many I've met here , who have lived there, then suddenly become ultra patriots when they see the reality of it all and want nothing to do with it afterwards. It is unfortunately the only way it shatters their false perception of what they think is it is. but what pisses me off more than all this is that many local idiots swear they know more about US/NY than YOU as a NATIVE US Citizen!
Once again, I have to give this point to Zboy because no matter how many times you try to tell them what life is really like in the US/West, they think we are "lazy, spoiled, etc" and all you have to do is work hard and all will flowers and cupcakes. I often times must lie where I am from because it is this same freaking conversation about Americans who leave America must be crazy strange or mentally ill. They literally think there is NO problems at all in the country and all people who are not materialistically successful are just loser pigs who don't want to work.
and just as Zboy said in some of his previous posts, The Kazakhs and Kyrgyz love to trash their own people, trash their own country and praise all westerners, black or white as people to put above their own, Not that I care anyways...