Join John Adams, world renowned Intl Matchmaker, Monday nights 8:30 EST for Live Webcasts!
And check out Five Reasons why you should attend a FREE AFA Seminar! See locations and dates here.
View Active Topics View Your Posts Latest 100 Topics FAQ Topics Mobile Friendly Theme
Discuss and talk about any general topic.
First off, I've NEVER known a person whose dating life was turned around by PUA (Pick up artist industry) techniques and could prove it. Not one. The successes exist only in the fake testimonials and scripts of PUA gurus like David DeAngelo, Ross Jefferies, Mystery, etc.
PUA shares a lot of features of multi level marketing (MLM) in that it's a lot of hype around a guru or "system" with big promises, yet the majority of followers don't get the results promised. So they are told to practice further or to blame themselves, because the system "works" and is perfect. It's like a religious belief. So any failure of the system is attributed to the followers of the system, who are told to blame themselves, rather than the system itself.
It's all a con game based on false premises and flaws designed to profit those who start the system or program.
PUA offers a hyped "system" with big promises that doesn't really deliver, giving its followers something to believe in, and taking advantage of them.
It promises a formula of techniques that will "create" attraction. Yet in reality attraction doesn't work that way. Being cocky and funny (David DeAngelo's approach), for example, may get some airhead girls to laugh at you, but it's not going to create attraction from a girl who isn't attracted to you. Get real.
They claim to help you acquire social skills, which are either defined as manipulation/persuasion techniques or tact/diplomacy skills to help you get along with others. Such may help you to get along with others, such as coworkers, the cashier at the grocery story, and help you stay on other people's good side. But again, it's not going to create attraction where there is none.
For PUA techniques to work, the girl has to ALREADY be attracted to you. There has to be a pre-existing attraction for it to spice up, in which case you don't even need PUA. But it's not going to create attraction out of nothing. Anyone who claims it does is either lying, BSing, conning you, or in denial and probably has little or no experience with real human relationships.
In reality, humans and their behavior do not fit into "formulas". Any attempt to fit them into such usually fails and lacks understanding of the complexities and unpredictability of human nature. Anyone with real experience in relationships knows this.
Real social skills have nothing to do with formulas, but are about being attuned and aware of subtle messages and body language from others and having the sense and insight to act accordingly, with tact and diplomacy. Everyone is different and require different types of communication/social skills to deal with. The social skills you need to get along with others in American settings, for instance are very different in Japan, and vice versa. It takes insight and experience to be able to "read others".
There are social skills that will help you get along and work harmoniously with others (as long as they are not like oil and water to you). But there are no "social skills" that will make you attractive to the majority of women you meet who don't find you attractive. No way. Only in PUA material does such exist, not in real life. It's a totally delusional system, made evident by the lack of results.
None of the PUA gurus have any real proof that their "system" works reliably for the majority of people, even if it really does work for them personally. Instead, they expect you to take all their big claims on faith, and many are gullible enough to do just that, cause many disgruntled men who follow them need something to believe in that gives them hope and gives them the illusion that they are in control.
Now, the logical defining criteria for a system to be considered to WORK is that it has to work for the average person CONSISTENTLY, not just for a small few or rarely. Both PUA and MLM fail in that criteria, as any serious independent investigation reveals. The majority of those involved in them do NOT consistently succeed or profit. Asking PUA disciples to show you actual results is like asking Amway distributors to show you their tax returns. It exposes their charade and so they quickly find excuses not to comply.
Yet they still maintain the deception that their "system works". Now let me ask you, if I designed a computer program for a company that worked less than 5 percent of the time, would the company consider that program to "work" and be satisfied with it? HELL NO! They would never keep such a program! So why should you? To claim that something that only gets results a small percentage of the time, "works" is very deceptive and inaccurate. It's time to stop the bull, hype and brainwashing. I know we all need something to believe in, but for crying out loud, at least believe in something REAL that works consistently for the average decent person.
On the other hand, Global dating fulfills this criteria, for you will find that expat males who have plenty of experience living or dating abroad are pretty much unanimous in their opinion that dating foreign women is a much BETTER experience than back home, regardless of whether they are in long term relationships or short term flings only.
But even if PUA did work, it would only attract low quality females and dumb airheads. Do you really think high quality intelligent women are going to fall for you just because you're "cocky and funny" and you tease her and bust her balls and call her a "brat"? If so, then I have a bridge to sell you. Only the biggest fool in the world with no real understanding of human relationships or women would fall for that.
PUA is an artificial industry that produces hope for profit, but not real results or happiness or love, for it doesn't understand the first thing about human nature and attraction.
They've treated courtship as a whole "scientific field of study", which is ridiculous. This should tell you a lot right there. Why would such a natural thing like male/female courtship need to be reduced to a "technique" or "science" as though it were a difficult subject that needed to be "mastered"?!
In other countries, it's just like you see in the movies - boy meets girl, they flirt, hold hands, say "I like you" to each other, then kiss and so forth. It's completely natural and effortless. (I've experienced this firsthand many times)
The students of this industry even have to "master an art" (e.g. advanced conversation techniques) just to hold conversations with women, which ought to be the most natural thing in the world!
Now the thing is, this type of industry is unheard of in other countries. I challenge you to find another country where men pay "seduction or pick up artist gurus" to teach them how to meet women. You can't, cause in other countries, the process is natural and flows normally, not F ed up like in the US. The "chumps" in this subculture never stop to ask the obvious question: "Why doesn't this industry exist in other countries too?"
And suffice to say, I have yet to meet a single person who could demonstrate and prove that these PUA/seduction techniques turned his love/dating life around 180.
Needless to say, PUA is not natural. It doesn't even allow you to be yourself. So even if it worked, why follow something that requires you to be something that you are not, which is hardly even possible anyway? Trying to be something that you're not all day eventually leads to psychological imbalance and mental dysfunction. Not a good thing.
On the other hand, Global Dating is natural and is proven to work consistently, not just for a few, but for the average decent male with no major personality defects. Best of all, it allows you to get what YOU want while being yourself at the same time! It's not a technique, but a matter of geography, a global path of going where you are wanted and where you will get the women you want. You simply need to be willing to think and live "outside the box" and defy the false programming given to you. It's very easy and natural. I know all this for a certainty cause I've lived it and so have many I've met and known. This is the real thing that changes lives and transforms them. No hype, bull, religious cult systems, gurus or false promises. This makes dreams come true and I am living proof of it. Let me show it to you all, for free!
Go to http://www.HappierAbroad.com
See my videos "Female Encounters of the Foreign Kind" and Dating Abroad Slide Shows for PROOF of all I say:
This huge photo collage is all the proof you need of how Global Dating has skyrocketed my dating from zero to infinity. Check it out. It will mesmerize you: http://www.happierabroad.com/ebook/Collage.htm
Ex-PUA member reveals the truth about the industry
The PUA Scam
25 Gold Articles Against The Seduction Community
Last edited by Winston on January 11th, 2011, 12:30 am, edited 6 times in total.
Check out my FUN video clips in Russia and Female Encounters of the Foreign Kind video series and Full Russia Trip Videos!
Join my Ukrainian/Russian Women Dating Site to meet thousands of legit foreign girls at low cost!
"It takes far less effort to find and move to the society that has what you want than it does to try to reconstruct an existing society to match your standards." - Harry Browne
Here's a few good article on the subject:
"The Seduction Community is mostly made up of guys who aren't very good with women. A respectable chunk are virgins. There are some genuine lady's men in the ranks, but they're more rare. It's mainly a bunch of awkward to average guys who are striving to be better."
yeah they act like its sooooooooooooo diffulcult to just simply talk to a female.. .like you have to play a freakin game with them or something.... its not meant to be like that , and european women display this....... But american women want to play games... Isnt it also funny how if your not " cute" then women dont wanna talk to you? is this what guys have to be now????? oh so a male isnt allowed to be a masculine male anymore? He has to be " cute " and then all the women will love him? ?????
wow seriously... do you see what birth control is making these women choose? It makes them not want masculine features... it makes them want someone that looks like their mother.....
Its just amazing the amount of profile comments i see women giving men , telling them they are " cute" A MALE IS NOT MEANT TO BE CUTE!!!!!!!!!!! HE IS MEANT TO BE MASCULINE... U KNOW THE THINGS THAT MAKE A MALE A MALE... SERIOUSLY WHEN ARE FEMALES GOING TO GET OFF THE BIRTH CONTROL AND WAKE UP AND REALIZE THIS?????????????????????????
But i will say this:Winston I respectfully disagree that PUA does not work. it does. The top guys like Ross Jeffries have managed to figure out to get into the doorway. Even Playboy Magazine, which was very skeptical about Speed Seduction and RJ went out on the field with him. They did an article about him, stating that Speed Seduction was not perfect, but it appears that it has some affect. Also, BTW i am not Ross or affiliated with selling his products. There are others who have contributed to the seduction archive such as David Deangelo, Mystery, Tyler Durden.. etc.
So yes it does work. i have done it. But then there is a final conclusion:
So much effort for so little reward.
This is where you realize that the almighty stinkbox that we are Pavlovian trained to pursue, is in fact nothing special.
Expatriate and meet FW is the best option, in the final analysis, do not waste your time and energy learning seduction techniques for second rate females i.e. Ameriskanks. You do not need seduction BS for FW.
It's not supposed to be so difficult to interact with women. Only in Anglophone countries is it truly difficult to meet and chat up women.
There are some sure ways to pick up chicks though. Dont say these will be gold diggers cause most AWs are scum anyway.
Here's the solution without using PUA:
Get large tattoos in obvious places - arms, back, chest.
Buy an expensive >$60,000 car, preferably a convertible.
Look fashionable for your target female demographic.
So after buying the expensive tattoos and $60,000 car you "win" (after weeks of emotional insanity) a flabby diseased (mentally spiritually and physically) skank that sucked and f***ed her way through the entire student body by age 12, just turned 25 but looks like a 45 year old? I think I will pass on that offer.
Take the $60,000 and head to Brazil for the winter. You will be up to your ears in hot young aggressive Latina girls that will be fighting over you like you were a billionaire. As always, give the modern American feminist the husband she deserves. None!
Yup. Unfortunately that is what it takes to have success with AWs. Many guys who just have tattoos can "hook up" with women, meaning they will get kisses from women in clubs. They rarely get to have sex with as many women as they'd like others to believe. But the car would guarantee success, since they are money grubbing whores to the last woman.
...if you ever find yourself envious of people who have tattoos, you can get a henna tattoo before you go to a party. Great conversation piece.
In its most basic element, it's just peacocking. You can do the same with unique jewelry, clothing, or accessories.
When I wear my culinary institute chef's jacket and go shop for groceries, all kinds of strangers want to talk to me. @_@ It's great if you're an attention whore (good opportunity to hand out business cards), but gets old after the 20th person bugs you with recipe questions like "which 2 buck chuck is the best for coq au vin?" Geez if you're such a cheapskate with wine, why even bother cooking with it????? Go shop at Trader Joe's and get drunk.
I think all this PUA stuff is a corporate plot to soley make money off the back of alot of guy's insecurities. I persosonally think most of it is rather far fetched and untried if you ask me.
My biggest piece of advice to every guy is just be yourself, a smart woman can spot a fake a mile off and then run lol! Best way to have women coming to you is, give them what they cannot have or even better make yourself tantelizingly close but just untouchable lol! This will drive alot of women wild and out of their minds. Most women want what they cannot have. So make it that they cannot have what they want.
I think reverse psycology works on most women. Keep them at arms legnth, if you do this? This will make them leave you wanting you and they will start thinking that they've lost their touch. This will drive them mad and they will start hatching a plan to capture you lol! The thrill is always in the chase, never the capture lol!
Flirt like crazy and tease em like hell, give them their alloted 5 minutes and then make a reason to say goodbye lol! Leave em gagging for ya, will make em alot more eager to chat for longer next time lol! You know what they say don't you? Absence makes the heart grow fonder lol!
You see, Devid DeAngelo is a saleable product trying to make your pay for a subscription or a set of CD's. John Alanis is just the same kinda set up. They're all in it to rip you guys off. They prey on the lonliness of alot of men. Make alot of us feel very insecure about ourselves and that is the snaring, once they've done that. They have you by your balls.
It's all a big sales pitch, ignore it and just be yourself, your perfect lady is out there looking for you and waiting for you, just like you are her. You just have to start finding eachother. My advice is rule more in than out, be flexible, stop thinking of a perfect type and be openminded. If you usually go for Blondes? Try some women that have sexy long black or Aubourn hair. If you usually go for the tight jeans and revealing vest type, go for a corporate business type instead, because guess what? A business woman will have brains, staying power and a bit more of a backbone. She will be alot more wealthy and independant and will not bleed you dry. if you get what I mean? If you usually go for a athletic type? Try going for a sophisticated real lady type instead, as she will have a few standards and morals if you get what i mean. Date out of your usual type box and see where it will go, they will be just as sexy, just as stunning looking, but in a different way.
I prefer intelligent well educated women myself, as they will be more stimulating in general and just as sexy as the glamour model type. Glamour model types will be alot more high maintenance, will dominate your wallet and all the money in it. If you get what i mean?
You do not need PUA advice, you have the key to your own success within you, you just have to have a plan, have an ambitious attitude and approach.
You are your own success story, not a concocted make belief story.
My take on things.
Just find me a proper broardminded Dominant Russian or East European woman lol!
Wrong. Be yourself is the politically correct shit we read and hear in all the feminist controlled media. This remark smacks of a female pretending to be male on this board.
I am not kidding when I say that PUA does work. it does. I'm just saying that in the end, all the energy going into it is not worth it for the second rate Anglosphere women one uses it on.
SNS, you are wrong mate, why be something you are not. Is that not being dishonest like? Deceitful like? No mate, be yourself all the time. You would not like a woman that is false and all vanier would you? I personally wouldn't.
SNS you are way wrong, I am far from politically correct, political correctness is being something that you purely and simply are not. Political correctness is the means of removing a persons identity. Whereas being yourself is not, if people do not like your true self? Then it is their tough luck.
Guys, Just be yourself, do not turn yourself into a falsely manufactured self, foreign women will pick up on it a mile off and run.
SNS, you would pick up on a false woman a mile off and run, so what would make you a special case?
What makes being true to your own idenity politically correct?
Just find me a proper broardminded Dominant Russian or East European woman lol!
right, you give a deceptive version of yourself to a woman, you date her. Then the real you starts revealing it's head. She will think OMG, what have I done. He conned me bigtime. I was not honest.
Honesty is the best policy SNS, Honest. it is.
If you are not being honest, it will come back to haunt you later. Why lie, it will never profit you.
A person that cheats, only ever ends up cheating themselves ultimately.
Get what I mean.
Guy, ignore SNS. Be yourself, do not mislead, do not deceive any woman or you will be just like every other 10 a penny guy. Be genuine, it will pay off.
Us Guys, we like genuine women that do not cheat on us, do not lie to us and do not mislead us. Guys if you want respect, trust and to impress a woman? Be honest, be yourself and treat her like you want her to treat you. Then you will be getting there.
I am fed up with men that think they have to hide their true selves to attract a woman, it is a load of rubbish, a lot of bullshit.
GUYS, HONEST!!!!! JUST BE YOURSELF!!!
Just find me a proper broardminded Dominant Russian or East European woman lol!
I can't believe how guys can't see through the PUA movement. Its obviously a case of problem -> reaction -> solution (OK, David Icke coined this term, not me). Clearly, the problem is most American men can't get a decent American women. This caused the "reaction' - men saying "Something has to be done!!" Then the solution: "PUA" - where men have to pay hundreds of dollars to find the "secret way" to get a girl (& if he still doesn't get a girl - its HIS fault for not trying hard enough).
For example, I was having breakfast at a cafe in Swanston St, Melbourne. 3 guys at the table next to me were talking about how they need to go to a "PUA" course. I felt like saying: "Wake up - its a fraud." But since guys treat other guys so badly, i decided not to bother & to let them find out for themselves - maybe they need to waste 10 years before they wake-up & discover the truth about PUA (OK, I don't wish this on them - its just a possibility).
My biggest piece of evidence against PUA is: "why didn't it exist 100 years ago if its true?" 100 years ago, people married, but didn't need a PUA seminar to do this!
"Woman is a violent and uncontrolled animal... If you allow them to achieve complete equality with men, do you think they will be easier to live with? Not at all. Once they have achieved equality, they will be your masters." Cato the Elder
It was A LOT easier to meet women back in the 50's and 60's than it is today. For some reason, it started to become difficult to meet women starting in either the 70's or 80's.