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Women : Are you aware of how lucky you are?

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Women : Are you aware of how lucky you are?

Postby Johnny1975 » Thu Jun 20, 2013 3:17 pm


Do you know how lucky you are not to have the problems that we have, when it comes to dating? What do you think of the main site and forum?
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Re: Women : Are you aware of how lucky you are?

Postby BellaRuth » Thu Jun 20, 2013 4:31 pm


I wrote out about three rambling essays to this struggled to answer properly, so I'm going to start over.

What problems do you think men face when it comes to dating that women don't have to deal with?

Is there anything in particular about the main site and forum you have in mind?

This might help me be more concise so I don't end up boring you to death with a million different tangents.
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Re: Women : Are you aware of how lucky you are?

Postby Johnny1975 » Thu Jun 20, 2013 4:36 pm


BellaRuth wrote:I wrote out about three rambling essays to this struggled to answer properly, so I'm going to start over.

What problems do you think men face when it comes to dating that women don't have to deal with?

Is there anything in particular about the main site and forum you have in mind?

This might help me be more concise so I don't end up boring you to death with a million different tangents.


It's late, so I'll answer all of that tomorrow. For now, go ahead and bore me, I don't mind. (I don't like using smilies, but if I did use them, I'd include a smile).
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Re: Women : Are you aware of how lucky you are?

Postby Winston » Fri Jun 21, 2013 1:08 am


I think what he means, Bella, is that a typical average woman can get dates a lot easier than an average man can, especially in the Western world. They also have more choices in that they have many admirers vying for their affections.

So in that sense, it looks like women have the upper hand and are better off in that they have more choices than men do.

However, when I talk about this with female friends, they usually tell me that they don't see it as much of an advantage because the choices that they usually have, or the guys who admire them, are usually of low quality, and not the kind that they want.

Oh well. Life is not perfect. We all feel that we are not getting what we want and that what we have is not enough. Even the rich and beautiful feel that way.

But one thing's for sure. If a woman wants to sleep with someone, she can find a bed partner anytime she wants, a thousand times easier than a guy can. That's for sure. However, women do not consider that to be anything special to be glad about. lol

The problem here is that men see dating in terms of numbers and quantity, with left-brained linear thinking, while women focus on quality of relationship and chemistry. Both genders assume that the other thinks the same way it does.
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Re: Women : Are you aware of how lucky you are?

Postby Renata » Fri Jun 21, 2013 1:46 am


Johnny1975 wrote:Do you know how lucky you are not to have the problems that we have, when it comes to dating? What do you think of the main site and forum?

It's true that we have more options because we are the 'chased' ones ... men usually do the chasing, women don't. I guess some women do but usually it's like that.

The thing is, although we have lots of options, since sex has become easy to get , love has become hard to find. Girls like myself would rather not be a statistic or a notch on someone's belt. So you would find that I am picky. I'm friendly, open, I used to go on many many dates, but my standards are high. We both have problems & issues but different ones. The natural balance of dating has become like a game ... sometimes you win sometimes you loose.
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Re: Women : Are you aware of how lucky you are?

Postby Johnny1975 » Fri Jun 21, 2013 3:14 am


Bella, dating should be straightforward and natural. But we have to put up with bitch shields, cockblocking, and flaking. Because we are the pursuers, we don't have as many options as you do. Opportunities to meet women don't just fall on our laps, usually. So when we get one, we try not to mess it up. Therefore we don't do those things (flaking, etc). Women abuse their position of (apparent) power by playing games to boost their egos. All of this can apply to all women in general, but even more so with western women, because they are generally bitchier, and nastier, and less appreciative of male company, as well as less able to relate to the opposite sex.

When I ask about the main forum, I'm asking what you make of the general opinions that people there have about western females.
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Re: Women : Are you aware of how lucky you are?

Postby Johnny1975 » Fri Jun 21, 2013 3:22 am


Winston wrote:But one thing's for sure. If a woman wants to sleep with someone, she can find a bed partner anytime she wants, a thousand times easier than a guy can. That's for sure. However, women do not consider that to be anything special to be glad about. lol

The problem here is that men see dating in terms of numbers and quantity, with left-brained linear thinking, while women focus on quality of relationship and chemistry. Both genders assume that the other thinks the same way it does.


If I was a woman, I could get laid every single night of my life if I wanted to. I wouldn't even have to look that good, or be interesting. On the surface, that would suggest that men are desperate dogs who would fuck anything, but really that's not how it is, because when you have something land on your plate after a drought, you're hungry, and would take anything, and that's what happens. Imagine a men's prison, and a very average woman walks in. To those men, she's Miss World. Not due to her merits, but because she's a novelty. Likewise, being approached is a novelty for men. Women are very privileged in this sense, and when you're privileged, it's easy to not see it, and it's easy to become very picky, to the point of absurdity.

But women are the cause of that problem, by not being approachable and open minded enough.

The reason why men see dating in terms of numbers rather than quality is because usually they're not faced with much quality, so they try to make up for it with numbers.

Everything I'm saying can apply to all women, but in particular it applies to western women.
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Re: Women : Are you aware of how lucky you are?

Postby BellaRuth » Fri Jun 21, 2013 3:24 am


I wouldn't say an average woman gets more dates than an average man, necessarily. It's more complicated than that- for instance, who they are looking for, what life they lead (if they actively try to 'meet people'), etc.

If you literally took two people, one female and one male, equal in every aspect of their lives, both average-looking, I don't think the female has it any easier just because she is female.

I know so many normal, average, nice girls who have trouble finding a boyfriend. And yes, they want a normal, average, nice guy. I also know some fairly average guys who have lots of girls interested in them, because they are charismatic, funny, etc. There are so many factors in play when it comes to finding a partner, and I think on a whole there are far more important attributes to exploit than gender (thank goodness, because you can't do much about that).

Yes, often men are the pursuer. But that doesn't mean that the streets are full of men, like starving zombies, crawling around after any girl who saunters past in some sort of magical halo. In reality it's often more like this: man and girl like each other. They can tell from their body language, or at least hope there's a chance. Girl waits for man to ask her out. She tries her best to look nice when she will next see him, and to say the right things. She hopes no one else catches his eye before he asks her. Man gets nervous, hoping he won't be rejected and that the girl does actually like him.

As you can see, there are nerves and effort on the girl's part too. She might get men approaching her who aren't suitable (often drunks, louts, etc.) and she wants men to approach her who never do. She wants to go up and approach them but doesn't want to come across looking desperate, which might damage the relationship before it's started. And that's if she's lucky. Most girls don't even get approached- they just stand and watch from the sidelines, hoping to get picked, and wondering if she should lose more weight/wear more makeup/what it is that boys like.

In some ways you can say the men have the advantage. They can go up to a girl they want and stake their interest straight away. It depends on your perspective. An unattractive man who needs to work on his personality would find it difficult doing this, yes- it must feel a bit like being yet another average student walking in shops and bars to ask if they have any jobs going, being scrutinised, then rejected or accepted. But no man is ever going to approach an unattractive girl either (unless they are drunk, or meet as friends first, talk, etc.), and that's like trying your best to organise and advertise an event that no one turns up to, and you're left there standing in an empty decorated building. It can be just as soul-destroying.

Also consider our expectations when we were children- boys watch men in films look at a beautiful girl, try to charm her, maybe he gets a yes or a no- it's part of the game. Girls watch the beautiful women in films get approached by all these men trying to charm her, and thinking that when she grows up she will basically send out some sort of radar that makes men swoon. Then the girl grows up and absolutely no one comes up to her because it's not like that in real life. It's exhausting and confusing for both parties. That's why we have everything from dating sites to a billion-dollar dieting industry.

If a woman wants to sleep with someone, she can find a bed partner anytime she wants, a thousand times easier than a guy can. That's for sure. However, women do not consider that to be anything special to be glad about.


It's not anything to be glad about.

Yes, women like sex, but it's not part of their nature to enjoy being used like a glorified masturbation toy. And yet so many women choose that to raise their self-esteem. I'm sure you've seen the vast majority of 'skanks' are fat, ugly or just plain insecure. She dresses up in things that will attract attention. She doesn't care about the quality of the men approaching her- beggars can't be choosers. Every man that agrees to sleep with her makes her feel like she must be attractive. It's like a drug.

In feminist societies women have lost their worth as pure women. Not so long ago, a woman's beauty and sex appeal was an added bonus, and she was expected to work on other things- she was expected to be well-organised enough to smoothly run a household, to cook, to be able to make things (clothes, decoration), to throw dinner parties, to raise children into clean and polite human beings, and pretty much everything a woman was made to do to complement and balance what a man is made to do. She was sought after for being a woman, a different creature from a man, and one that made both of their lives complete and meaningful. But when feminism tells you that femininity is so worthless that you must throw it all away and copy men, what do you have left? Just your sexual organs are different, so that's all you can put on the market. Essentially women in feminised societies are forced into mass prostitution, but they're having sex for reassurance they are still valuable now the gender roles are dissolved, rather than sex for money.

Might be getting a bit deep, haha. My point is: yes, it's easier for women to get sex. But it's not a part of a woman's makeup to want casual sex with strangers, unless that's all they can hope for. So it's not a 'plus'.

The problem here is that men see dating in terms of numbers and quantity, with left-brained linear thinking, while women focus on quality of relationship and chemistry. Both genders assume that the other thinks the same way it does.


The thing is, although we have lots of options, since sex has become easy to get , love has become hard to find. Girls like myself would rather not be a statistic or a notch on someone's belt.


Yes!
Last edited by BellaRuth on Fri Jun 21, 2013 3:31 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Women : Are you aware of how lucky you are?

Postby Johnny1975 » Fri Jun 21, 2013 3:25 am


Renata wrote:
Johnny1975 wrote:Do you know how lucky you are not to have the problems that we have, when it comes to dating? What do you think of the main site and forum?

It's true that we have more options because we are the 'chased' ones ... men usually do the chasing, women don't. I guess some women do but usually it's like that.

The thing is, although we have lots of options, since sex has become easy to get , love has become hard to find. Girls like myself would rather not be a statistic or a notch on someone's belt. So you would find that I am picky. I'm friendly, open, I used to go on many many dates, but my standards are high. We both have problems & issues but different ones. The natural balance of dating has become like a game ... sometimes you win sometimes you loose.


Women are the gatekeepers of sex. I'd say that mostly, any problems in dating are mainly the woman's fault. Not because they're bad, but because with power comes responsibility.
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Re: Women : Are you aware of how lucky you are?

Postby BellaRuth » Fri Jun 21, 2013 3:30 am


Hi Johnny just saw your posts.

Can't really relate to how you see women- I'd never be horrible to a man who'd approach me. In short:

When I ask about the main forum, I'm asking what you make of the general opinions that people there have about western females.


Yes, if it's restricted to the lower classes. I hate talking about class, but in this instance it is about class in the UK and other Western European countries. If you are middle-class or above it would be very unusual for you to be a rude, loud, fat, tattooed 'butch'. When I read what the men say about Western women my first response is confusion, my second is to bring to mind the most 'rough' and industrial areas of the UK which have been far more accepting of feminism, media, etc. Other classes have stronger and longer roots in traditional values so are less easily influenced.
Last edited by BellaRuth on Fri Jun 21, 2013 3:34 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Women : Are you aware of how lucky you are?

Postby Johnny1975 » Fri Jun 21, 2013 3:34 am


What do you mean you can't relate to how I see women? Do you think it's bad how I see them?
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Re: Women : Are you aware of how lucky you are?

Postby BellaRuth » Fri Jun 21, 2013 3:57 am


What do you mean you can't relate to how I see women? Do you think it's bad how I see them?


Not at all, just confusing.

I'll elaborate:

But we have to put up with bitch shields, cockblocking, and flaking.


I think I've picked up these terms now. In reality, I don't see this sense of entitlement with any of the women I know. Yes, they might not want to go out with you. But are they flattered that you came up to them? YES. Do they get approached so often it bores them? No! Whenever I get approached (rarely) it's the first thing I tell my boyfriend/friends when I next see them, regardless of what the man is like. It's nice. It's appreciated. And that's if it's a rejection- the worst outcome.

I think the terms you used are more likely to apply in nightclubs where the quality of approach is more frequent and low (due to alcohol) rather than in everyday life.

Women abuse their position of (apparent) power by playing games to boost their egos.


I think this is often more of a misunderstanding of the sexes rather than women toying with men. Perhaps it needs more clarification.

Being approached is a novelty for men. Women are very privileged in this sense, and when you're privileged, it's easy to not see it, and it's easy to become very picky, to the point of absurdity.

But women are the cause of that problem, by not being approachable and open minded enough.


Being approached is a novelty for women. By 'approached' I'm talking about getting asked for my number, directly being asked for a date, or just having it made very obvious that a man would like to start something with me.

I'm talking about normal women who are going about their everyday lives. I'm not talking about 'skanks' who are grinding in nightclubs and getting cheap offers. I'm talking about something that could evolve into a relationship, not a one-night stand.

I don't think women are more picky than men. Most women's checklist is: nice chap, preferably someone I find good looking, not too fat or lazy.
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Re: Women : Are you aware of how lucky you are?

Postby q7677 » Fri Jun 21, 2013 9:14 am


BellaRuth wrote:What do you mean you can't relate to how I see women? Do you think it's bad how I see them?
I'm talking about normal women who are going about their everyday lives. I'm not talking about 'skanks' who are grinding in nightclubs and getting cheap offers. I'm talking about something that could evolve into a relationship, not a one-night stand.



I see two issues here:
1. I feel like this has been a back-and-forth without really understanding one another's side. It is obvious that a woman is usually not just interested in sex - and many men are not interested just in sex as well. But women in Western societies seem to have virtually unlimited options not just when it comes to sex, but in all kinds of relationships with men. On dating sites, a average woman gets dozens of messages within minutes of joining. While many might be from really low-quality men, most aren't. Same happens in real-life situations. The woman has lots and lots of choices of men looking for relationships. Most men don't have this luxury.

2.
I don't think women are more picky than men. Most women's checklist is: nice chap, preferably someone I find good looking, not too fat or lazy.


Sorry to say, but this seems to be same old story - this is what practically all women say they want, but in reality their choice is based on "but also he must meet all my other requirements". He may be nice, decent-looking, having a career, etc. - but she would also want him to be, for example, a charismatic walking entertainment machine, or have some elements of a "bad guy", or be rich, or be 6' tall, or any other qualities she deems absolutely necessary. She may be very average-looking, have both internal and external flaws, etc., but her requirements must still be met. I say this from personal experience and backed up by numerous accounts by other men I know. Women don't give you much of a chance - you are either exactly what she expects you to be, or you are brutally discarded. No compromises are possible. Probably lots of men on this forum will concur that this is their experience.

Men also have preferences, but they are usually willing to compromise on lots of things just to have a decent woman with them. If a woman is nice and reasonably attractive, a man would usually not demand much more.
The current environment, however, seemed to make women lazy and entitled in this sense - they don't want to compromise, they just want all their preferences handed to them on the plate. When the man who doesn't meet all of that doesn't come along, she starts complaining that no decent men are left. Most women don't seem to want to put any effort on their part.
Too often, good guys who are quality relationship material get discarded in favor of players, only because the players know how to make the woman feel like he is desirable. Too bad he has the talent of doing it, or just external qualities necessary, and he has done this hundreds of times before - most western women will not find enough strength within themselves to sift through this and see the real person. They would just lazily go in the direction their initial feelings tell them to go, without putting much effort...

I am still waiting for a woman to provide a reasonable answer to the phenomenon, without embarking on cliched "we just want a nice guy". We all know that's not true the vast majority of the time.
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Re: Women : Are you aware of how lucky you are?

Postby Winston » Fri Jun 21, 2013 1:09 pm


Bella,
The person above has a good point that I forgot to make.

If you post a profile with your picture on a popular dating site like PlentyofFish or OkCupid or Match.com, for example, you will get MANY responses a day from guys who are interested in you.

But try putting up a profile of an average to decent looking guy on there, and see how many responses you get.

The difference will be staggering. I promise you, if you do the experiment, you will see what I mean.

Now doesn't that speak volumes? :)
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Re: Women : Are you aware of how lucky you are?

Postby BellaRuth » Fri Jun 21, 2013 1:17 pm


Hi q7677.

q7677 wrote:
2.
I don't think women are more picky than men. Most women's checklist is: nice chap, preferably someone I find good looking, not too fat or lazy.


Sorry to say, but this seems to be same old story - this is what practically all women say they want, but in reality their choice is based on "but also he must meet all my other requirements". He may be nice, decent-looking, having a career, etc. - but she would also want him to be, for example, a charismatic walking entertainment machine, or have some elements of a "bad guy", or be rich, or be 6' tall, or any other qualities she deems absolutely necessary. She may be very average-looking, have both internal and external flaws, etc., but her requirements must still be met. I say this from personal experience and backed up by numerous accounts by other men I know. Women don't give you much of a chance - you are either exactly what she expects you to be, or you are brutally discarded. No compromises are possible. Probably lots of men on this forum will concur that this is their experience.


This isn't my personal experience. I don't know anyone who insists, for instance, that a man needs to be rich or 6 foot tall (seriously?!).

I don't know what to say other than I want to agree in order to be 'on the same page', but I must disagree.

I'm thinking of a friend of mine who is teaching English in America at the moment. She mentioned something about girls there liking really tall men. All I can think to say is that I might be in a different environment than the one you're used to.

My boyfriend's 5 foot 7 ish. I didn't even notice. My sister's hubby is the same height. It's never been mentioned. Would this be a hindrance to dating in America?

I don't know anyone who would seek out a rich boyfriend, either- that's low class, trashy behaviour, and embarrassing. Some girls would, but they'd be looked down upon, and I don't actually know anyone like that. Yes, the man shouldn't be lying on his backside all day eating chips, but that's about personality, not wallet.

The girls I know quite honestly just look for a 'decent' guy. Of course, 'decent' can be broken down- no mental issues, no violent temper, some degree of social skills, not lazy, can have a conversation with you, etc., but nothing beyond basic common sense.

Of course there needs to be some level of attraction and chemistry, and it can't be helped if you're just not her type. I don't like blond guys, for instance, even if they look like David Beckham, it just doesn't do it for me. But men have certain types they find attractive too, and there's not much either of us can do about it.

I am still waiting for a woman to provide a reasonable answer to the phenomenon, without embarking on cliched "we just want a nice guy". We all know that's not true the vast majority of the time.


I'm just going to have to tell you my honest opinion and leave it at that. I'm completely bemused by this, and can only chalk this up to me not actually being from the same environment. What girl would date a man who is a 'player'- you mean, cheats on her? For me, you must either be talking someone with extreme confidence issues, perhaps also a teenager. What adult woman wants that kind of drama in their life?

I wish I could meet you halfway, and don't think I've really added much to this discussion, but I really can't understand where your views come from.
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