momopi wrote:

Personally, I thought moving to the US was great! I was sick in Taipei all the time, and the environment in the US is much much cleaner. Back in Taiwan I had to get up at 6:30am and walk to school, then spend an hour cleaning (this was elementary, mind you) the class room with rags, and stay until 5:30pm and walk back home. In the US, we lived next to the elementary school in Anaheim and classes didn't start until 9:30am? We got out at like 3pm? Sheesh. I went fishing every day after school at the Santa Ana river. On weekends my older cousin took us shooting. I still have a box of .22 (spent/empty) cartridges from my first outing somewhere. For summer breaks we went to camp in the mountains. It was fun!

The party went on and on and came to an end after college. Suddenly it was like "jumping into the ocean" without a life jacket. Now you have to actually work for a living and make real effort to chase girls. LoL.

Winston wrote:

Check out my cousin Roseann's response to my list of differences with Taiwanese:

Quote:

Thanks to those typical Taiwanese else Taiwan won't as successful as today.

I fall in to the category that I know my responsibilities of my life, my family, my community and my country.

How come you did not list family values?

Roseann

Thinking that spending only 5.5 hours a day in school compared to 15 hours a day, 5.5 days a week for PRC kids, is a 'Good Thing', is exactly why China is about to kick the USA's ass.

Yeah, it's fun. But it makes for a nation of lazy, X-Box addicted, dolts.

They Are Coming. The West was warned and did nothing.

Rock wrote:

I don't know very many ABCs so I can't dispute what you say. I'm not at all surprised if many who come over as FOBs at junior high/high school level don't fit into the typically very harsh American school culture coming from place like Taiwan. Nothing unexpected there.

By the way, by ABC, we are often including people who are not really ABCs (born in the States) but who came over sometime during their childhood. You yourself fit that description. Also, Taiwan has a lot of people these days who spent a substantial amount of time in the States growing up or have been raised in somewhat of an international environment. Many of them speak American style English with almost no accent so its not always so easy to distinguish between the shades.

Anyway, my point was, Taiwan would be a very welcoming environment for certain ABC males. There are some girls who would choose them over a similar local for dating. As far as longer term suitability goes, that's a more complex issue that I did not intend to address.

One of my girlfriend's 3 closest friends married an ABC just a few months ago and moved to his home in Alhamra California. Her sister hangs with a more glamorous set and a few of them are also with ABCs or quasi ABCs.

I asked her what issues they might face and she told me that sometimes, the parents of the ABC guy prefer that he date other ABCs instead of going downmarket to Taiwan. I suppose the assumption there is that the average economic and education level of second generation or above Chinese/Taiwanese emigrants to the States is higher than that in Taiwan.

What I say applies mostly back in the 80's and maybe early 90's. I don't know about ABC's nowadays though as I do not usually hang out with them or talk to them, other than those that email me to express their admiration for Happier Abroad. lol But like I said before, a lot of ABC's are trying to become more "white" and "Americanized" in order to fit in and be accepted by the cool crowd in America. Plus, they are trying to defy their parents' traditional values and strict upbringing. To them, assimilating into their parents Chinese culture by going back to Taiwan is seen as REGRESSING or going BACKWARDS, rather than forwards. It's the opposite of "progress" to them.

Plus, there are some culture conflicts. While both Taiwan and America preach workaholic virtues and puritannical ethics in public behavior, America encourages you to be confident and assertive. Taiwan does not. Weakness is not seen as a bad thing in TW culture, as long as the person works hard, is obedient, and makes good money. So, an assertive ABC will feel odd here, since he can't be assertive, and especially if he is expected to act like a local Taiwanese and think like one too.

Not many ABC's I know want to live in Taiwan. They may visit and say that it was "nice" but they do not usually say they felt at home there or that they thrive there.

Yeah I am not technically an ABC since I was born in Taiwan, but going to the states at 3 is pretty much the same.

Usually, if you go overseas before you at 8 years old, you will not have an aet. But if you go after you're 8 then you will still have a Chinese accent. 8 I hear is the cut off point.

The cousins I told you about who went to America in high school or junior high do not have American accents. And as you saw in Roseann's letter that I posted above, do not always write with accurate grammar either.

In fact, I would say that Asians have different vocal chords than whites do, even if they were born and raised in the same culture.

Some can tell on the phone that I'm Asian without seeing me, others can't. Not cause of accent. But because the vocal chords are different.

Btw, when I was 17 and stayed in Taiwan for a year in 1990-1991, I also noticed that girls I didn't know would not talk to me unless I was with someone they knew. However, when I went to a big University in Dan Shui, near Taipei, my parents' friend, who was a teacher there, introduced me to an English teacher there, who in turn introduced me to her whole class full of girls. Immediately, I was received with smiles and enthusiasm by all the girls. Every corny thing I said in the classroom was laughed at. I thought that it was odd that these college girls who normally do not smile or talk to you in public were suddenly so friendly and enthusiastic when you were properly introduced to them by their teacher.

Later I was told to write my name and number on the chalkboard so that the girls could take it down and call me to invite me out. The next day, several girls called to invite me to hang out at their university and meet them. I saw them a couple of times, but they all told me that since they were older than me (by a year or two) that we could only be friends.

Back then, being an ABC got me attention, but only when properly introduced. Otherwise, no one would talk to me or even look at me. So like I said, being properly introduced makes a big difference. And that's what makes it difficult, cause you have to depend on that.


_________________
"The men the American public admire most extravagantly are the most daring liars; the men they detest most violently are those who try to tell them the truth." - H. L. Mencken

"Just look at us. Everything is backwards. Everything is upside down. Doctors destroy health, lawyers destroy justice, universities destroy knowledge, governments destroy freedom, the major media destroy information, and religion destroys spirituality." - Michael Ellner

"The greatest awakening I underwent in my travels is that nations in reality are the exact opposite of how they are depicted in the media." - Ladislav

Winston wrote:

Btw, when I was 17 and stayed in Taiwan for a year in 1990-1991, I also noticed that girls I didn't know would not talk to me unless I was with someone they knew. However, when I went to a big University in Dan Shui, near Taipei, my parents' friend, who was a teacher there, introduced me to an English teacher there, who in turn introduced me to her whole class full of girls. Immediately, I was received with smiles and enthusiasm by all the girls. Every corny thing I said in the classroom was laughed at. I thought that it was odd that these college girls who normally do not smile or talk to you in public were suddenly so friendly and enthusiastic when you were properly introduced to them by their teacher.

Later I was told to write my name and number on the chalkboard so that the girls could take it down and call me to invite me out. The next day, several girls called to invite me to hang out at their university and meet them. I saw them a couple of times, but they all told me that since they were older than me (by a year or two) that we could only be friends.

Back then, being an ABC got me attention, but only when properly introduced. Otherwise, no one would talk to me or even look at me. So like I said, being properly introduced makes a big difference. And that's what makes it difficult, cause you have to depend on that.

Winston

@17, you were just a boy, especially given your style and appearance. Yes, when everyone is real young, many girls will often see you as their little brother 'xiao di' and may not give you a chance romantically. But its sure a lot better to be rejected for being too young than too old, lol.

If you had spent your 20s here in Taipei and gotten connected to a few cool friends, I bet you would have had a great time. And by your mid-20s, some of those slightly older gals who rejected you before would start giving you chances if they were still unattached. Socially acceptable age gaps widen as everyone gets older.

If you wanna totally avoid approaching strangers, making friends and getting introductions in Taiwan is a piece of cake for a young visitor who is reasonably likable and friendly.

Hi all,
I just revised and expanded my chart of differences and similarities I have with Taiwanese people. See the new version:

http://www.happierabroad.com/Winston_vs_Taiwanese.pdf


_________________
"The men the American public admire most extravagantly are the most daring liars; the men they detest most violently are those who try to tell them the truth." - H. L. Mencken

"Just look at us. Everything is backwards. Everything is upside down. Doctors destroy health, lawyers destroy justice, universities destroy knowledge, governments destroy freedom, the major media destroy information, and religion destroys spirituality." - Michael Ellner

"The greatest awakening I underwent in my travels is that nations in reality are the exact opposite of how they are depicted in the media." - Ladislav

Rock wrote:

Winston

@17, you were just a boy, especially given your style and appearance. Yes, when everyone is real young, many girls will often see you as their little brother 'xiao di' and may not give you a chance romantically. But its sure a lot better to be rejected for being too young than too old, lol.

If you had spent your 20s here in Taipei and gotten connected to a few cool friends, I bet you would have had a great time. And by your mid-20s, some of those slightly older gals who rejected you before would start giving you chances if they were still unattached. Socially acceptable age gaps widen as everyone gets older.

If you wanna totally avoid approaching strangers, making friends and getting introductions in Taiwan is a piece of cake for a young visitor who is reasonably likable and friendly.

It's hard to say. Just being young isn't enough. You gotta fit in and vibe with them too. Not everyone can do that. I've never mentally connected with TWese very well. Their mannerisms just did not flow with mine. Their smiles are also peculiar and distinct, especially on the females.

Believe it or not, I told my parents long ago that I would not want to marry an ABC cause seeing an Asian acting white was a weird thing and that I'd rather have a FOB Asian cause she'd be more genuine at least.


_________________
"The men the American public admire most extravagantly are the most daring liars; the men they detest most violently are those who try to tell them the truth." - H. L. Mencken

"Just look at us. Everything is backwards. Everything is upside down. Doctors destroy health, lawyers destroy justice, universities destroy knowledge, governments destroy freedom, the major media destroy information, and religion destroys spirituality." - Michael Ellner

"The greatest awakening I underwent in my travels is that nations in reality are the exact opposite of how they are depicted in the media." - Ladislav

Rock, Momopi,

Here is a computer translated Chinese version of my comparison chart. I plan to print it out to show my Taiwanese relatives.

What do you think? Is it understandable at least?

http://translate.google.com/translate?hl=en&sl=en&tl=zh-TW&u=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.happierabroad.com%2FWinston_vs_Taiwanese.pdf


_________________
"The men the American public admire most extravagantly are the most daring liars; the men they detest most violently are those who try to tell them the truth." - H. L. Mencken

"Just look at us. Everything is backwards. Everything is upside down. Doctors destroy health, lawyers destroy justice, universities destroy knowledge, governments destroy freedom, the major media destroy information, and religion destroys spirituality." - Michael Ellner

"The greatest awakening I underwent in my travels is that nations in reality are the exact opposite of how they are depicted in the media." - Ladislav

Winston wrote:

Rock, Momopi,

Here is a computer translated Chinese version of my comparison chart. I plan to print it out to show my Taiwanese relatives.

What do you think? Is it understandable at least?

http://translate.google.com/translate?hl=en&sl=en&tl=zh-TW&u=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.happierabroad.com%2FWinston_vs_Taiwanese.pdf

From what you've told me so far about your relatives, I advise against sending it to them. They're just going to think you have too much time on your hands and probably ostracize you behind your back. I mean, the whole tone of your comparison is that your way is much better than theirs.

And who told you that Taiwanese like dogs and hate cats. You say that applies to 99%? No way. I know plenty of people who prefer cats, like both, or like neither. Years ago, I saw a rural dude in Tainan catching dogs to sell to people as food. And I also remember stands that sold dog meat in several places such as Chungli. Dog meat is supposed to help you keep warm in the winter.

Winston why are you so hung up on what your relatives think?

Rock wrote:

Winston wrote:

Rock, Momopi,

Here is a computer translated Chinese version of my comparison chart. I plan to print it out to show my Taiwanese relatives.

What do you think? Is it understandable at least?

http://translate.google.com/translate?hl=en&sl=en&tl=zh-TW&u=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.happierabroad.com%2FWinston_vs_Taiwanese.pdf

From what you've told me so far about your relatives, I advise against sending it to them. They're just going to think you have too much time on your hands and probably ostracize you behind your back. I mean, the whole tone of your comparison is that your way is much better than theirs.

And who told you that Taiwanese like dogs and hate cats. You say that applies to 99%? No way. I know plenty of people who prefer cats, like both, or like neither. Years ago, I saw a rural dude in Tainan catching dogs to sell to people as food. And I also remember stands that sold dog meat in several places such as Chungli. Dog meat is supposed to help you keep warm in the winter.

Maybe not 99 percent. But most Taiwanese prefer dogs over cats as pets. Everyone knows that. That is common knowledge. You can ask your girlfriend about it.

There is a general preference for sure. Why deny it?

It's even mentioned on websites about Asian culture.


_________________
"The men the American public admire most extravagantly are the most daring liars; the men they detest most violently are those who try to tell them the truth." - H. L. Mencken

"Just look at us. Everything is backwards. Everything is upside down. Doctors destroy health, lawyers destroy justice, universities destroy knowledge, governments destroy freedom, the major media destroy information, and religion destroys spirituality." - Michael Ellner

"The greatest awakening I underwent in my travels is that nations in reality are the exact opposite of how they are depicted in the media." - Ladislav

globetrotter wrote:

Winston wrote:

Hi all,
I just composed a one page chart of differences and similarities I have with typical average Taiwanese and Chinese people. I put it in columns though, which would not show up on a standard webpage by MS Word, so I outputted it into a PDF file. Check it out.

http://www.happierabroad.com/Winston_vs_Taiwanese.pdf

So are you guys more like me, more like them, or somewhere in between?

Winston you are an American with Taiwanese parents. You are not Chinese and your behaviour and preferences and personality support that conclusion.

Only in the USA is background assayed based upon ethnicity and where your ancestors came from in the distant past.

True. I also don't have a Chinese/Taiwanese soul either. I never felt like I had. Maybe Taiwanese sense that I am like a "fraud" in that I have a Taiwanese face but not a Taiwanese soul or vibe or personality at all. lol

You know, in Berkeley this psychic I went to said that I was an American in one of my past lives. During the Korean War, I was taken prisoner by the Chinese and tortured in Chinese prison until death. I died with a deep hatred for Chinese people in that life. So I became one to work out the karma of my hatred for them. She said my name in that lifetime was Joe Sammons.

Of course, this is unprovable either way. But maybe I'll try to someday look up that name. There are many stories where people with past life memories actually verify the details of their memories as being historically accurate. Some of these stories are too compelling to ignore.

In any case, it's not just about growing up in America. Some ABC's who grew up in the US claim to have a Chinese soul.

For example, the tennis player Michael Chang, who reached as high as #2 in pro tennis rankings, said that he is 100 percent Chinese.

And Janet Hsieh, host of the Travel Channel's "Taiwan Fun" series, grew up in Texas, yet she says she is 100 percent Taiwanese and feels the most at home in Taiwan. Here is her picture:





So what makes some ABC's have Chinese souls and others not?


_________________
"The men the American public admire most extravagantly are the most daring liars; the men they detest most violently are those who try to tell them the truth." - H. L. Mencken

"Just look at us. Everything is backwards. Everything is upside down. Doctors destroy health, lawyers destroy justice, universities destroy knowledge, governments destroy freedom, the major media destroy information, and religion destroys spirituality." - Michael Ellner

"The greatest awakening I underwent in my travels is that nations in reality are the exact opposite of how they are depicted in the media." - Ladislav