Happier Abroad Forum Community

Yahoo news today http://finance.yahoo.com/news/tax-time- ... 20491.html

"'Truth, justice, and the American way' - it's not enough anymore," the comic book superhero said, after both the Iranian and American governments criticized him for joining a peaceful anti-government protest in Tehran.

Last year, almost 1,800 people followed Superman's lead, renouncing their U.S. citizenship or handing in their Green Cards. That's a record number since the Internal Revenue Service began publishing a list of those who renounced in 1998. It's also almost eight times more than the number of citizens who renounced in 2008, and more than the total for 2007, 2008 and 2009 combined.

I asked myself, 'What am I gaining as an American?' And the cons outweighed the pros."

Her last act as a citizen was to swear before an American flag that she renounced all ties with the United States. She called the process "gut wrenching."

"I grew up in a military family where patriotic feeling was very strong" Eysselinck says. "I'm amazed at how terrible I felt renouncing. But it was the only way to get them off my back.

Smart people. Its a liability really

It’s the American tax system which taxes income no matter where you live or earn it which is the problem. And the IRS regulations constantly change and you need to hire a CPA to do your taxes and keep legal because the rules are so complex. If you are established in a country and do not intend on returning to America then it is a real no brainer to renounce to get rid of a useless burden. The system is also going to become more oppressive as the bankrupt US searches for the income of the shrinking number of productive people.

Several years ago, Congress enacted a law that makes you liable for US taxes for a full 10 YEARS after renouncing your citizenship.

It is not the tax resolution that many believe it is!

This is not unlike the tactics used by the former Soviet Union, to keep its comrades in line. As Ladislav says: quilt your world....get out and stop being a slave to the US system.

Why not renounce ALL citizenships and declare yourself Sovereign? That you are a HUMAN BEING and are free to walk anywhere on GOD's green earth that YOU, the HUMAN BEING, not the juristic person or legal entity, choose to.

Get a World Passport. Google it.

MrPeabody wrote:If you are established in a country and do not intend on returning to America then it is a real no brainer to renounce to get rid of a useless burden. The system is also going to become more oppressive as the bankrupt US searches for the income of the shrinking number of productive people.

Like John Templeton, an American should first get himself either a British or Canadian passport, before formerly renouncing his US one. This way, he can live in let's say the Bahamas or Thailand but have the ability to travel the world, visa free.

Contrarian Expatriate wrote:Several years ago, Congress enacted a law that makes you liable for US taxes for a full 10 YEARS after renouncing your citizenship.

It is not the tax resolution that many believe it is!

I think that's been changed again. It can now be avoided (unless the reason you expatriate is about taxes).

If you expatriate because you are loyal to a new country, for example, that won't apply.

S_Parc wrote:

MrPeabody wrote:If you are established in a country and do not intend on returning to America then it is a real no brainer to renounce to get rid of a useless burden. The system is also going to become more oppressive as the bankrupt US searches for the income of the shrinking number of productive people.

Like John Templeton, an American should first get himself either a British or Canadian passport, before formerly renouncing his US one. This way, he can live in let's say the Bahamas or Thailand but have the ability to travel the world, visa free.

Good thinking. Not to live in those places, just as a passport.

steve55 wrote:

...Last year, almost 1,800 people followed Superman's lead, renouncing their U.S. citizenship...

I believe that the officially published count includes only high-earners (over $500,000 AGI) or high net worth ($2 million I think).

In practice no brick-and-mortar small business owner can live abroad. So the figure includes only a few professional traders earning over $500,000. The majority must be folks who live on investments and do not depend on a U.S. business. With minimum net worth of 2 million, that means the median figure will be much higher - maybe ten million. The average is probably even higher.

Botom line: It's not 1,800 Americans renouncing in one year. It's 1,800 multi-millionaires.

can any savvy members here provide a succint pros & cons list for U.S. citizenship renouncement???

also do you HAVE to replace it with some other f***ing citizenship or can you just go without all together??

onezero4u wrote:can any savvy members here provide a succint pros & cons list for U.S. citizenship renouncement???

also do you HAVE to replace it with some other f***ing citizenship or can you just go without all together??

Unfortunately, one has to have some sort of identification/travel document. Thus, you cannot enter a nation legally, without some sort of govt issued ID, like a passport. And then, for many countries, if your passport isn't USA, Canada, Japan, western Europe, a/o Aussie/NZ, then you may need to get approved for a tourist visa from a local embassy.

Thus, for travel purposes, a US passport is necessary for most of us. But then, don't forgot, if you permanently ex-pat, then you're exempt the first ~$91K of your income, as an American, living abroad. So while John Templeton, a billionaire fund manager, was wise in giving up his US passport for a British one, the average person doesn't earn that much money, every year. If you have a passive or active income between $92K and $180K, then what's the big deal in paying US taxes? You're not paying your local former state taxes and your deduction is now $91K.

My recommendation is that if you make the real big money, from currencies, futures, residual income from owning businesses, etc, then move to Canada first, and get yourself a passport within 3 years of being a permanent resident. Then, once you're a Canadian, go to the US consulate and renounce your US citizenship. Then, permanently leave Canada, and then, you're basically tax free, and can pocket most of your earnings.

S_Parc wrote:

onezero4u wrote:can any savvy members here provide a succint pros & cons list for U.S. citizenship renouncement???

also do you HAVE to replace it with some other f***ing citizenship or can you just go without all together??

Unfortunately, one has to have some sort of identification/travel document. Thus, you cannot enter a nation legally, without some sort of govt issued ID, like a passport. And then, for many countries, if your passport isn't USA, Canada, Japan, western Europe, a/o Aussie/NZ, then you may need to get approved for a tourist visa from a local embassy.

Thus, for travel purposes, a US passport is necessary for most of us. But then, don't forgot, if you permanently ex-pat, then you're exempt the first ~$91K of your income, as an American, living abroad. So while John Templeton, a billionaire fund manager, was wise in giving up his US passport for a British one, the average person doesn't earn that much money, every year. If you have a passive or active income between $92K and $180K, then what's the big deal in paying US taxes? You're not paying your local former state taxes and your deduction is now $91K.

My recommendation is that if you make the real big money, from currencies, futures, residual income from owning businesses, etc, then move to Canada first, and get yourself a passport within 3 years of being a permanent resident. Then, once you're a Canadian, go to the US consulate and renounce your US citizenship. Then, permanently leave Canada, and then, you're basically tax free, and can pocket most of your earnings.

EXCELLENT summary - thanks.

thanks much...

as a libertarian minded person I DESPISE the idea of paying more than 1-2% taxes especially for an out of countrol spending govt that blows about 1.5 of what we are forced to pay it & mostly for f***ing programs that i find morally deplorable.

I've got US citizenship and will have KR citizenship in another year or so. Would sure like to renounce US but keeping it for options. The world is changing and impossible to know where things will land. My accountant had to file an extension, confusing stuff. If I end up owing a bunch to the f***ing US going to be pissed.