Why forced tipping/gratuity in America is unethical, illogical, & infringes on free will!

[yick]

Servers aren't paid massive amounts in China either but you get reasonable service and there's no tipping and like Yohan has stated, they will return your tip if you try because you are insinuating that you are a beggar.

Somewhere like Australia, servers are well paid so there is no custom of tipping there.

I tip, it is a few pesos, so what? I might get good service the next time. Usually I round up the amount but if not, what's a couple of quid?

With the United States, it's very much cultural and it isn't ever going away even if the salaries went up. Arguing about tipping in the US is like banging your head against a brick wall. You can if you want but it will be you with the headache and not the wall.

[Tsar]

Servers aren't paid massive amounts in China either but you get reasonable service and there's no tipping and like Yohan has stated, they will return your tip if you try because you are insinuating that you are a beggar.

Somewhere like Australia, servers are well paid so there is no custom of tipping there.

I tip, it is a few pesos, so what? I might get good service the next time. Usually I round up the amount but if not, what's a couple of quid?

With the United States, it's very much cultural and it isn't ever going away even if the salaries went up. Arguing about tipping in the US is like banging your head against a brick wall. You can if you want but it will be you with the headache and not the wall.

I know if I return to the United States which I will at least twice in my life (mainly to retrieve possessions I left behind, shopping, and business) that I will not be tipping anyone. Not the taxis, not the restaurants or servers, not transportation app drivers, and not anyone. Not after what America did to me all my life. Maybe if the bill were $50, I might leave $1.00 for every $50 if I received exceptional service just because I could but I wouldn't be subsidizing low wages because of an inefficient and corrupt government, a corrupt system, and greedy business owners or corporations that can't bother to pay their workers fair wages relative to the cost of living. Most other nations also subsidize food costs for essentials. America subsidizes factory farms and pays farmers to destroy products. That's the sort of system America is...

I can pass off my lack of tipping as being a foreigner that is poor since I never fit into America and can easily pass as an outsider. Plus, I probably wouldn't be visiting the same restaurants twice, at least not for several years apart, so it's not like I need to ever worry about negative service or other negatives happening.

Life in America is essentially priced at $50,000-$60,000 annual wages when the majority of Americans earn less than $20,000. Anyone that earns less than $50,000-$60,000 needs to room with at least one other person.

Internet is $100 after taxes
A mobile phone plan is $60-$80 for a prepaid plan. Without credit, all a person can get is a prepaid plan
Rent is lucky to be $1,000 anywhere in America for a lousy place. Most of the time it averages $1,000-$1,500 not including cities or places with plentiful employment opportunities (but plentiful doesn't mean good).
To eat 3 meals a day, with decent food, and never eating out factor in $400 minimum and that is including instant noodles at least 25% of the time. (Americans are completely unhealthy for a reason. They can only afford to eat mostly rubbish, if they can afford to even eat at all).

Then there are utilities, healthcare, transportation (which America has the worst public transit, expensive taxis, unable to walk anywhere outside of New York and maybe Boston and certain other cities, and expensive transportation apps, which of course also have taxes and hidden costs built in), and surprise taxes can be abundant.

Plus, the government uses Gross Income to calculate any sort of welfare or poverty line or social programs...because they are too cheap to use Net Income unlike other nations.

I don't know how life in America is possible or tolerable for the majority of single Americans, especially ones without jobs or jobs that pay enough and no roommates or family.

[Winston]

Question: Do you all leave 15 percent tips in America? Or do you leave just a dollar like I do? Or nothing at all?

What about haircut salons? Are you supposed to tip the hair cutter? Do you follow the 15 percent rule on that too?

Someone told me that in the 70s, tipping was optional in America, no obligatory. It was only in the 80s when restaurants decided not to pay waiters minimum wage, that tipping became mandatory, which is an infringement on free will of course. I wonder why no one notices this or complains about it, even though it's obvious. Is everyone a zombie? Why does everyone conform like ants? Why does no one question anything?

Why not tip the mail man, the bus driver, and the plumber too? Where's the consistency in all this?

Why would you need to tip a cab driver or hotel maid? They're just doing their JOB! Why tip them and why make it a requirement? That's plain wrong and illogical. Why do Americans never complain about this?

Also if tipping is so good/natural/normal, why don't the other 200 countries of the world, which is more sane, require tipping too? How come China doesn't force you to tip? I thought China was totally unfree and America totally free, as CNN and Fox News claims? Why does reality not show that at all???!!!

[Winston]

Sucks to be a cheapskate.

Servers make around $3 an hour in my state, and depend on tips for the rest of their income. I would prefer that they were paid a living wage and meals were more expensive but topping was not allowed, however this is a longstanding cultural practice. Whether food is 20% more expensive and the increased cost pays for service or whether I pay that 20% directly to the server doesn't matter to me. This is a holdover to reduce costs to businesses to help them through lean times while keeping waitstaff employed, as it is much more costly to provide base hourly wages plus taxes than it is to let your staff be paid as business comes in

I am not a cheapskate. For me to be a cheapskate, I would have to refuse to pay something I OWE. That's not the case here. You are missing that.

I can be generous to people I like. I make donations to people on YouTube I like and I loan my friends money or give it to them as gifts. I am merely HONEST and LOGICAL, unlike you. No offense, but you are acting like a low IQ typical American who thinks America = the world. You obviously have no international experience. It's obvious.

So yes I can be generous or frugal depending on the situation. It's just that I am logical and honest in saying that it's wrong to FORCE someone to tip against their free will. Don't you realize that? Are you blind or dumb or deaf? Did you read what I wrote @HouseMD? Moreover, there's no logic in having to tip smoeone for doing their job. Can you give a logical reason for that?

A "cheapskate" implies that I owe money I refuse to pay. I definitely am not like that. You do not owe a tip to people just for doing their job. Hence you are operating on a logical fallacy and you suck at logic. You are just a conformist with a hive mind.

If tomorrow it became American custom to tip the mail man, would everyone and you conform to it? Of course you would. Because you guys are like ants, all you do is conform.

It's not our fault servers make $3 in your state. That's their employers fault. Why don't you blame them? Why is that my fault? I met some British tourists who said that a manager in NY told them that, and they said "it's not our problem".

No tipping does not mean meals are more expensive. That doesn't hold water. How come in Asia meals are inexpensive in restaurants, yet you don't have to tip? Hence that's an American cop out and assumes the rest of the world doesn't exist. Why you so narrow? I'm Asian so I'm supposed to be the narrow one, not you. How come I can see the big picture and you as a white person cannot? lol

By not tipping you literally cost the server money for having served you, since federal taxes are calculated based on 10% of meal costs. If you don't tip them on a $50 meal, they get charged taxes based on a $5 tip, which will be about $1.50, reducing their minimum wage of $2.13 down to $0.63 for the hour of work. If you order an expensive enough meal they actually would be paying to serve you.

If you are too poor to tip, you shouldn't be eating out.

Why not make tipping optional? Isn't it wrong to force it? I never said I don't tip. I usually leave 1 dollar if the service was average, and 2 dollars if the service was good. Why not leave just 1 dollar to get by? Is that an insult? What about my free will? Why doesn't America respect your free will?

If what you say is true then the restaurant industry is corrupt and should be FIXED, not me. I am not the problem, the restaurant industry corrupt practices are the problem. Isn't that obvious? Duh! Do you even think???!!! White people are supposed to be more broad minded than Asians, why is it the opposite here? LOL

I am not too poor to tip. I just believe in right and wrong and it's wrong to force people to tip against their free will. Don't you see that? Are you blind or dumb?! Are you an NPC?! Again, tipping should be OPTIONAL, not forced. It's simply wrong. Don't you see that? Don't you have basic ethics? Are you an animal?!

Why do Americans never think anymore???!!!

[Winston]

Servers aren't paid massive amounts in China either but you get reasonable service and there's no tipping and like Yohan has stated, they will return your tip if you try because you are insinuating that you are a beggar.

Somewhere like Australia, servers are well paid so there is no custom of tipping there.

I tip, it is a few pesos, so what? I might get good service the next time. Usually I round up the amount but if not, what's a couple of quid?

With the United States, it's very much cultural and it isn't ever going away even if the salaries went up. Arguing about tipping in the US is like banging your head against a brick wall. You can if you want but it will be you with the headache and not the wall.

So how does China get away with that and why can't America do the same? That's the question. Why doesn't America fix its problems and corruption and bad practices? Isn't America logical and efficient?

I tip a little in the Philippines too, maybe just 20 pesos. But again, it should be optional, not required or forced.

Yes you can't argue with it in America, it's deeply cultural. But what if I don't leave tips? What happens? They can't arrest you right? They will just give you dirty stares and bad vibes.

I usually leave 1 dollar tip in the US only. Is that ok? Does that get me by? Or would that still garner dirty looks?

What about in a hair cutting salon? Am I supposed to leave 15 percent in tips too? Why not just a dollar? Since 1992 I've been leaving 1 dollar in hair salons only, unless the owner is the barber, in which case you don't need to tip right?

What if you don't tip a cab driver or Uber driver? What happens then?

What if a hotel bell boy takes my luggage to my room, like you always see in the movies, and when they expect tips, I say "Why should I tip you for doing your job? Isn't it an infringement on my free will to force me to tip and hence unethical?" Would the bell boy debate me on that? What would be his logical rebuttal? What would the average American say if I brought up those two main points? Would they debate me? If so, what would their rebuttal be?

[Winston]

Btw, are you supposed to leave tips in a buffet? Do they expect it? Do you guys leave the person taking away your dishes a dollar at least?

My parents do. My parents use Taiwanese shaming tactics and tell me that if I don't tip the cooks in the back will spit in my food. I think that's an urban legend, but my parents, like most Asians, live in fear, guilt and shame. It's the Asian way. No joke. I'm serious. They believe in conformity, not ethics or logic or truth.

What if you don't tip a taxi driver? Would they be angry and argue about it? Have any of you done that? Do you all leave 15 percent tips exactly?

Does everyone in America, all 100 percent of people, leave tips? If so, do they leave 15 percent and above? Just wondering.

[Pixel--Dude]

I think the restaurant industry needs to be closed down for good. @HouseMD I would not tip any waiters a penny. In my opinion, if a restaurant can't afford to pay its workers a decent living wage then that industry is unethical and should not exist in the first place. It's disgusting.

[Winston]

I think the restaurant industry needs to be closed down for good. @HouseMD I would not tip any waiters a penny. In my opinion, if a restaurant can't afford to pay its workers a decent living wage then that industry is unethical and should not exist in the first place. It's disgusting.

So you don't eat at restaurants? Only in fast food places? Or you cook your own food? Have you ever went to a restaurant in the US and didn't leave a tip? What happens if you do that? Do they chase you down in the parking lot and get mad at you? Or just give you dirty looks?

What HouseMD doesn't consider is that maybe that excuse that restaurants would have to raise prices if tips didn't exist, is just a lie and copout excuse for a corrupt industry? How come in other countries restaurants don't need to require tips or raise prices to compensate for lack of tips? Americans never consider that or ask that. It's so easy to stump Americans with just a simple question like that.

[Voyager1]

It all depends. Were the servers clearing your plates, bringing or refilling your drinks, bringing you napkins? If so then their service merits a tip.

I've been to AYCE places where it's totally self serve so no tip is merited.

A AYCE is totally different than an ala carte where more service is provided.

[Pixel--Dude]

I think the restaurant industry needs to be closed down for good. @HouseMD I would not tip any waiters a penny. In my opinion, if a restaurant can't afford to pay its workers a decent living wage then that industry is unethical and should not exist in the first place. It's disgusting.

So you don't eat at restaurants? Only in fast food places? Or you cook your own food? Have you ever went to a restaurant in the US and didn't leave a tip? What happens if you do that? Do they chase you down in the parking lot and get mad at you? Or just give you dirty looks?

What HouseMD doesn't consider is that maybe that excuse that restaurants would have to raise prices if tips didn't exist, is just a lie and copout excuse for a corrupt industry? How come in other countries restaurants don't need to require tips or raise prices to compensate for lack of tips? Americans never consider that or ask that. It's so easy to stump Americans with just a simple question like that.

At home I generally just cook my own meals, or order takeaway if I'm with friends such as @Lucas88 I have been to America once at age 16 with my family, but that was years ago and things have changed considerably since then. Do most restaurants now add gratuity to your bill so they kind of force you to pay a minimum tip anyway?

I stand by what I said. If a restaurant cannot pay its staff a living wage then that industry should not exist! Especially when some of these big restaurant chains make so much in profit. The argument that restaurants would have to raise prices if tips didn't exist is erroneous. They could just stop being greedy cunts and take less profit! But of course, most of these restaurants are run by greedy arseholes who make every excuse under the sun not to pay their workers a livable wage. Servers should get paid minimum wage at the very least! Any tip they receive should be totally at the discretion of the customer, if the customer even chooses to tip in the first place!

I don't understand why @HouseMD or people like him would even support this bullshit. It just goes to show we live in a system of bullshit slavery to greedy companies who exploit people at every given opportunity.

@Voyager1 It is the servers job to clear your plates and refill your drinks! That merits a livable wage given by the company they work for and shouldn't depend entirely on customers giving a tip. The restaurant industry is a f***ing scam to everyone involved. Both the server and the customer are exploited by these restaurants. It is absolute degeneracy. Anyone who supports this bullshit must have a screw loose.

[MrMan]

I would prefer a no tipping culture, but I remember a story about someone who went to Russia during the Soviet era. The waiters were just slow and didn't do their job because they had guaranteed job security, or so the story went. If waiters were paid regular wages in the US, they could still get fired if they did not do their jobs. Maybe they give better service because they live off tips.

I don't think tipping is an unethical system. I think it's just complicated and makes going out to dinner a little irritating. You have to add 15 to 20% to the prices in your head. It basically makes you do math. I also find the begging.... ahem.... I mean asking for tips for other stuff like tip jars for cashiers and tip jars for a pre-made sandwich at the airport to be a bit ridiculous.

I am confused about tips at buffets. Do you tip? Do you give the regular tip or less if you get your own food? Some restaurants have them bring you a fork or a drink, but you get your own food. She brought me a knife and fork, so I owe her $10.

The whole tipping thing makes life a bit more difficult and less straightforward. That is the downside to it.

[Winston]

But MrMan, how come Chinese waiters in China and in Asia give you fast service? Russians are just sour people who don't like pretending to be fake. They are friendlier outside of work.

I didn't say I am against tipping, only against MANDATORY/OBLIGATORY/COMPULSORY tipping. That's a bit unethical and violates free will. Don't you agree?

What's the tipping custom in Canada? Why does no one publicly talk about changing this stupid custom? Truthers only talk about conspiracies, and act as though American culture is perfect.

[Will N. Dowd]

As with most cultural things, tipping in Canada is the pretty much same as in the USA sadly.
I don't go to restaurants or take taxis so this is how I avoid the problem.
I wish tipping everywhere is the same as it is in Japan, where it doesn't exist.

[MrMan]

But MrMan, how come Chinese waiters in China and in Asia give you fast service? Russians are just sour people who don't like pretending to be fake. They are friendlier outside of work.

Maybe salaries work as well as tips if you can be fired from your job.

I didn't say I am against tipping, only against MANDATORY/OBLIGATORY/COMPULSORY tipping. That's a bit unethical and violates free will. Don't you agree?

Not if everyone understands the rules. We know if we go to a sit-down restaurant in the US, where we don't get the food from the counter and take it and throw the wrappers away in a tray, we are supposed to tip. I am not sure about buffets. I don't see it as unethical, since you know going in that you need to add 15 to 20% when you go in the restaurant. I find obnoxiously high prices on a menu that you don't see until you sit down to be worse than that, or even worse, no prices on a menu.

Does it violate free will? For me 'free will' is the idea that people can make choices that aren't predetermined. So I don't think tipping has anything to do with free will. Free will Baptists can tip. So can Calvinists. Then they could disagree over whether they had any real choice over how much they tipped.

Our system is inconvenient, to make prices end in 97 or 99 cents, then to add sales tax on top of that and not roll it in, so we end up with these non-rounded prices and lots of change. Then on top of that, we have to calculate a tip. It is imposing too much math and financial guesswork on consumers. That's more of my beef with it. Maybe the inability to calculate causes people to spend more, which stimulates the economy. You have pointed out a concern I also have about how our metrics of economic growth depend on consumption, and some of that is people buying junk they don't need.

[galii]

But MrMan, how come Chinese waiters in China and in Asia give you fast service? Russians are just sour people who don't like pretending to be fake. They are friendlier outside of work.

Maybe salaries work as well as tips if you can be fired from your job.

I didn't say I am against tipping, only against MANDATORY/OBLIGATORY/COMPULSORY tipping. That's a bit unethical and violates free will. Don't you agree?

Not if everyone understands the rules. We know if we go to a sit-down restaurant in the US, where we don't get the food from the counter and take it and throw the wrappers away in a tray, we are supposed to tip. I am not sure about buffets. I don't see it as unethical, since you know going in that you need to add 15 to 20% when you go in the restaurant. I find obnoxiously high prices on a menu that you don't see until you sit down to be worse than that, or even worse, no prices on a menu.

Does it violate free will? For me 'free will' is the idea that people can make choices that aren't predetermined. So I don't think tipping has anything to do with free will. Free will Baptists can tip. So can Calvinists. Then they could disagree over whether they had any real choice over how much they tipped.

Our system is inconvenient, to make prices end in 97 or 99 cents, then to add sales tax on top of that and not roll it in, so we end up with these non-rounded prices and lots of change. Then on top of that, we have to calculate a tip. It is imposing too much math and financial guesswork on consumers. That's more of my beef with it. Maybe the inability to calculate causes people to spend more, which stimulates the economy. You have pointed out a concern I also have about how our metrics of economic growth depend on consumption, and some of that is people buying junk they don't need.

People who are radically for freedom should be able to understand it is the choice of the restaurant. I safe a lot of money because I do not go to restaurants. So tipping culture makes me more wealthy.