The Ice Wall that surrounds the edge of the Flat Earth

[Winston]

Just to remind you guys it was Copernicus who came up with the 'round' earth model. I dont think the CIA were around then. Winston have a look at some live satelite cameras of the earth spinning. It appears none of them are far enough out in space to give a complete view of earth. That makes sense because they are in orbit. The lack of a clear picture of earth from space, if in fact there isnt one, could be evidence of the moon landing and mars probes being fake but i dont see it as being crucial to proving the earth is round. What about the feats of columbus...magellan...francis drake...can you draw those logically on a flat or concave earth map? Both you and starchild are intelligent but a bit weak on history, geography and physics (me too on physics)...the other problem you both have is an absolute desperation for the conspiracy to be true over the official story in every case.

Wasn't Copernicus a Freemason? Eric Dubay claims he was. He always says that when referring to him, as though he were mocking him by calling him a Freemason. I thought the Freemasons didn't become an official lodge until the early 1700's? Whatever. Btw, this video below claims that the Jesuits developed the globe earth model and pushed Copernicus against his will into publishing his heliocentric model.



Btw, it may be true that me and gsjackson and Neo may be biased or even "desperate" for conspiracy theories to be true. But that doesn't mean they aren't. In contrast, you could be biased against conspiracy theories too. So it goes both ways. And it could be true that we are wrong too, and that most if not all images and videos from NASA are legit and real. But... but... you just don't know do you? You cannot go out into outer space and verify any of it. So you take it on FAITH. Admit it. You don't really know either way 100 percent. So don't pretend you do. You just gotta admit that you don't know and leave it open, and apply critical thinking to both sides, not just to the conspiracy side as pseudoskeptic Michael Shermer wants you to do.

[Winston]

I agree with onethousandknives....Why would one want to learn Kung Fu from a white guy in Asia

Who in the right mind would go to a white guy to learn Asian martial arts in Asia ...Its like learning english from a Thai guy in America

Why not? If the white guy is good and knows his stuff, then sure I'd pay to take Kung Fu classes from a white guy like Eric Dubay. I've heard Dubay talk about Kung Fu in his podcasts and he sounds like he really understand the principles of it. So yeah I'd say he's a qualified teacher.

Chuck Norris is white too, but many would gladly take Karate classes from him, because he's a Karate champ. And he LOOKS like a karate guy too, he looks the part. He has a karate type face. Most people usually look like what they are. For example, Bill Gates looks like a computer nerd/geek/genius too, and of course he is just that. That's not a coincidence. In general in most cases, people look like what they are, with some exceptions of course. In fact, most computer programmers look like computer programmers, not like football players. Go to Silicon Valley and you will see. I don't know why this is over some people's head, like the guys here in the forum when I brought this up long ago.

We have to look which Audience he is trying to please...clearly, the western ones...In Thailand, nobody will give you a F if you are Kung Fu guy but in the west...people will be impressed...Thailand already has 10000s of martial arts teachers who are better than any of us because they learn since they were kids and they have this silent hate towards anything not muay Thai...

Since, Winston you are also born in the west, you got impressed but I don't think Thai's would be...I mean this looks like a cover...You pick the most Obvious skill to blend in which would either be martial arts or Thai cooking and opening a restaurant etc

Plus, He seems to be living forever in Thailand and we know how ordinary white people need to do visa runs and can't stay for more than a year at most, else they need to be an english teacher or get that 2 million thai bhat elite visa. He is still not married to his Thai gf..which we only have pictures of it...

I have not seen a single expat never mentioning about Visa Problems in Thailand...This guy has never ever in his blog mentioned all the problems that white people face in Thailand...

Plus all his Videos are too good with CGI...and he is a Kung Fu guy...How come he learned all CGI skills amazes me and I'm a software guy and it takes years to master CGI

....and the most suspicious thing is...He is too intelligent..He is too smart to be what he claims he is...His logic, his mathematical explanation, his talking sense, his video making skills and how he defends his concept is very intelligent....Yes...he is also very good in Kung Fu...no doubt about that...he does amazing Yoga too...Its mind blowing actually..How many skills this guy has...

This guy clearly is a cut above the normal white people you will come across...This is just too good...and this is what CIA looks for ...He is a perfect fit for an intelligence operative...His IQ is clearly above 120 or so....

Have you ever seen Eric Dubay make a mistake ..he is precise in what he does...

He has even decoded Ancient Sanskrit text..called Bhu Mandala....Which even Indians takes years to just go through the first page and on top of it...He created an entire CGI video on it...

Plus i have other 100 personal observations on him over the years to conclude beyond doubt..he is not what he claims to be...

That doesn't make sense. Just because a guy is smart and multi-talented and knows how to create CGI with video software, doesn't mean he works for the CIA. Just because Dubay doesn't like to talk publicly about his visa problems in Thailand (if he has any) doesnt mean he's CIA. Some people don't like talking about personal issues online, especially if his goal is to promote flat earth. These are huge assumptions and jumps that are unwarranted.

What you forgot to consider is that Dubay is also a hippie/freethinker/rebel type, and he looks like one too. To work for the CIA you gotta be a team player who will follow orders no matter what, even if it conflicts with your beliefs. You can't be a freedom lover or freethinker and work for the CIA. No way. He wouldn't fit in. They wouldn't trust him. He's not a team player. He hates groups and organizations and teams and also hates the government and is very anti-establishment. A guy like that would never be recruited for the CIA. You forgot to consider that. He is just not the right personality type at all. Not even a little. You gotta be very loyal and obedient to work for the CIA, and be a military type who takes orders and places the CIA's interests above your own.

Plus a CIA agent would not be bashing Jews and Freemasons and denying the Holocaust either. Also a CIA agent would not be having his videos taken down on YouTube or sometimes his whole channel too. He wouldn't be censored like that.

[Winston]

Those are good points Starchild. Even if El_Caudillo is right, that the flat earth model can't be true because NZers can fly from NZ to South America the same time that Americans can fly from LA to Tokyo, which would be impossible on a flat earth map, that doesn't automatically mean the globe model must be correct. How would they explain for example, why NASA faked all the photos of Earth from space? Especially the recent ones which were done with PhotoShop's clone brush, as proven in that long ass flat earth thread. No one can explain that. Why would NASA commit such obvious fraud? Why can't they show a real photo of Earth from space? Why only composites and CGI and photoshopped images?

But why would you think Earth is concave? Based on what? If we were on the inside of a sphere, wouldn't you be able to see the other side of Earth by looking up? Wouldn't the sun and stars and moon just be hovering in the center of the sphere?

Why would you think Eric Dubay is on the CIA payroll? He supposedly teaches Wing Chung Kung Fu in Thailand for a living. I should try to meet him sometime. I wonder if he's willing to meet up with anyone. I could pretend to be interested in taking his Kung Fu class. lol. He doesn't look like a CIA agent at all. He looks like a rebel, hippie and Bohemian. He looks beatnik. I can't imagine him being an agent for anyone.

Check out the blog of As-gard who is the real author of No Forest on Earth.

https://www.as-gard.com/7-mlrd-psihov-na-kryshe

its in Russian but when you use it in Google chrome...You can translate in English.

Its his model of earth being concave but not like concave as we think...You can check the photos of how he made the earth look like...only with images we can wrap around what he is saying....but its still a difficult concept to understand. We need more direct english articles on it. I'm not fully sure about it either as our brains are been hard wired into believing earth as Round Globe and now flat earth ..both are too simple to understand ..the truth i believe is somewhere in the middle

Replied to in new thread about concave earth here:

viewtopic.php?f=28&t=42651

[Winston]

Question I posted for Eric Dubay on his channel:

Eric, I got a question. Why didn't Captain Cook or other European explorers in the 1700s or 1800s climb the ice wall and explore Antarctica? Couldn't they have scaled the ice wall with climbing gear or use ladders like in a castle siege? Also, why didn't they use hot air balloons in the 1800s to fly into Antarctica? That was a precious chance lost.

[NPCslammer]

Its clear that we are not living on globe as they tell us....what's more amazing is we are not living on flat earth either ...the complete flat earth movement was started by freemasons..

I have been following it since it came out in 2015 and Eric Dubay is the main proponent and is living in Thailand on CIA payroll.

I been following this dude on Atlantean Conspiracy since 2009 and he sounded very suspicious to me and then suddenly, he comes up with great CGI, excellent quality Videos on Flat Earth...His arguments are sane but does not hold ground with Silicon Trees expose which proves...there was no water at all on Original earth.

Water was just a chemical compound used for raw silicon extraction...hence there is no question of Ice either. Silicon dilutes in the presence of Water.

Our Earth is a Silicon planet..PERIOD. No debate on it.

Our Earth is Globe like but more in Concave Shape than Convex...accourding to the Russian guy who created Silicon Forest videos.

People who just laugh it out on flat earth are scammed the same way as those who believe in flat earth.

Flat earth is as fake as Globe earth. If you follow truth, you cannot deny, The flat earthers aka freemasons who made us first believe in globe who were also freemasons LIED both times..

Everything is a gigantic lie...I cannot believe how people just blindly think we are living on globe which was also proposed by the same entities who are pushing this flat earth agenda.

The globe model certainly doesn’t make sense and can’t stand up to basic math and science. However the flat earth model does have issues as well. If independent researches had a budget like Nasa we could figure this shit out once and for all. But it doesn’t look like that’s gonna happen for a long time.

[Winston]

It looks like Eric Dubay LIED or was WRONG about Antarctica and the North Pole being militarized no-fly zones where if you try to fly over them with your own private plane, the US Air Force will shoot you down. I searched this question on Google and found not a single source that says that you will be shot down if you go to Antarctica or the North Pole without government permission. Lots of aviation websites said you can go there on your own but few people do because it's highly dangerous and risky to do so in a private small plane. But a few have done it. For example:

https://www.quora.com/Has-anybody-ever- ... a-by-plane

Yes, several people have crossed Antarctica by plane. The first successful flight across Antarctica was completed by Lincoln Ellsworth and Herbert Hollick-Kenyon in 1935. They flew from Dundee Island, off the coast of Antarctica, to the Bay of Whales.

This question was discussed on Quora too. No one says you will be shot down if you try to fly over Antarctica in your own plane. See below.

https://www.quora.com/Why-are-planes-fo ... outh-Poles

https://www.quora.com/Has-anyone-crosse ... -but-a-rim

https://www.quora.com/Do-any-airline-fl ... ot-why-not

https://www.quora.com/Can-you-fly-and-l ... hen-return

https://www.quora.com/If-I-own-the-plan ... m-doing-so

The New Zealand Space Centre said with money you can charter your own flight over Antarctica.

https://www.spacecentre.nz/resources/fa ... a-fly.html

Can you fly over Antarctica?

Yes, there are two ways that you can fly in a plane over Antarctica. Whether you're doing it to prove the flat-earth theory or just to have fun, you'll need to choose one of these options...

(1) Buy a ticket on a commercial flight. International flights don't generally go over Antarctica, so you'll be looking for a dedicated recreational flight. For example, at the time of writing this article, you can book a day trip from Australia that flies right over the South Pole for not much more than $1,000.

(2) Charter your own flight. Seriously, you can charter your own airplane to fly to Antarctica. If you'd like a Boeing 747, watch this video by commercial pilot Kelsy|74Gear. It's not as hard as you might think—all you need is a bunch of people willing to spend a few thousand dollars. They don't all have to be flat-earthers—as long as you have enough people you trust to verify the journey, you can fill the rest of the plane with wealthy people who would do it just to participate. Chartering big planes for recreational flights is relatively common and straightforward. Here's what you need to do:

Contact an airline company that offers charter flights and ask for a quote to take a plane to Antarctica. You could start with Kelsey's company (see video link above), or you could try Air New Zealand as they already do charter flights into the southern ocean (to see the southern lights).
Figure out the pricing and number of tickets you'll need to sell in order to cover the cost (or make a profit).
Sell at least that many tickets. You might want to charge full price up front, but make it partly or fully refundable in case you can't sell enough tickets.
It's not easy but it's certainly not impossible.

Here are a few relevant links:

Antarctica Cruises & Tours (Chimu Adventures)
Antarctica Flights (on a Qantas 747)
Tourism in Antarctica (Wikipedia)

I brought this up with Eric Dubay in his YT comments section but he keeps ignoring me.

If anyone can find evidence that the North Pole and Antarctica are militarized zones that you cannot go to without getting arrested or shot down, please let me know. I'm not saying the Earth must be round and not flat, but Eric Dubay seems to be lying about some things and avoiding hard questions about it, as a simple Google search shows.

[Winston]

I posted this under some Flat Earth documentaries:

Dear FEers, I don't dispute your claims, but it seems to be a LIE that you cannot fly over Antarctica or the North Pole due to some militarized no-fly zone. A simple Google search shows that not one single website says that. If I'm wrong, can you show me please? Every aviation site on the web says that you CAN fly over the North and South Pole in your own private plane, and no one will stop you, but it's highly dangerous so very few will try it. But a few have. For instance on Quora it says this:

"Yes, several people have crossed Antarctica by plane. The first successful flight across Antarctica was completed by Lincoln Ellsworth and Herbert Hollick-Kenyon in 1935. They flew from Dundee Island, off the coast of Antarctica, to the Bay of Whales."

How do you explain that? I'm not saying the Earth is not flat, but it seems to be an obvious lie that the US Air Force will shoot you down if you try to fly over the North Pole or Antarctica. Not a single website says that. I brought this up to Eric Dubay but he ignored me. Can you explain? Also, if Antarctica is an ice wall around the Flat Earth, then it would be huge in circumference. No military in the world could police it. Again I asked Eric Dubay about this but he ignored me. Can you guys address this? Thanks.

[Pixel--Dude]

I posted this under some Flat Earth documentaries:

Dear FEers, I don't dispute your claims, but it seems to be a LIE that you cannot fly over Antarctica or the North Pole due to some militarized no-fly zone. A simple Google search shows that not one single website says that. If I'm wrong, can you show me please? Every aviation site on the web says that you CAN fly over the North and South Pole in your own private plane, and no one will stop you, but it's highly dangerous so very few will try it. But a few have. For instance on Quora it says this:

"Yes, several people have crossed Antarctica by plane. The first successful flight across Antarctica was completed by Lincoln Ellsworth and Herbert Hollick-Kenyon in 1935. They flew from Dundee Island, off the coast of Antarctica, to the Bay of Whales."

How do you explain that? I'm not saying the Earth is not flat, but it seems to be an obvious lie that the US Air Force will shoot you down if you try to fly over the North Pole or Antarctica. Not a single website says that. I brought this up to Eric Dubay but he ignored me. Can you explain? Also, if Antarctica is an ice wall around the Flat Earth, then it would be huge in circumference. No military in the world could police it. Again I asked Eric Dubay about this but he ignored me. Can you guys address this? Thanks.

I don't believe the Earth is flat. I thought a documentary shared had some good points that were interesting, but I just don't think it's credible that the earth can be flat. The ice wall seems to be something else that was added to make the theory somehow make sense.

Of course Eric Dubay ignored you because he has no answer and cannot refute your claim about pilots who fly over the North and South poles.

[gsjackson]

I posted this under some Flat Earth documentaries:

Dear FEers, I don't dispute your claims, but it seems to be a LIE that you cannot fly over Antarctica or the North Pole due to some militarized no-fly zone. A simple Google search shows that not one single website says that. If I'm wrong, can you show me please? Every aviation site on the web says that you CAN fly over the North and South Pole in your own private plane, and no one will stop you, but it's highly dangerous so very few will try it. But a few have. For instance on Quora it says this:

"Yes, several people have crossed Antarctica by plane. The first successful flight across Antarctica was completed by Lincoln Ellsworth and Herbert Hollick-Kenyon in 1935. They flew from Dundee Island, off the coast of Antarctica, to the Bay of Whales."

How do you explain that? I'm not saying the Earth is not flat, but it seems to be an obvious lie that the US Air Force will shoot you down if you try to fly over the North Pole or Antarctica. Not a single website says that. I brought this up to Eric Dubay but he ignored me. Can you explain? Also, if Antarctica is an ice wall around the Flat Earth, then it would be huge in circumference. No military in the world could police it. Again I asked Eric Dubay about this but he ignored me. Can you guys address this? Thanks.

Do you have any other examples than 1935? The treaty didn't go into effect and Antarctica made off limits until the 1950s. Yes, the Antarctica perimeter is vast, which corresponds with Capt. Cook's attempt to sail around it that took months. But there are only a handful of disembarkation points, from which you can fly or sail to get there -- so not so hard to police. As the video you linked today points out, all authorized trips to Antarctica leave from the same point in South America.

What exactly are you referring to by "every aviation site on the web?"

[Winston]

Do you have any other examples than 1935? The treaty didn't go into effect and Antarctica made off limits until the 1950s. Yes, the Antarctica perimeter is vast, which corresponds with Capt. Cook's attempt to sail around it that took months. But there are only a handful of disembarkation points, from which you can fly or sail to get there -- so not so hard to police. As the video you linked today points out, all authorized trips to Antarctica leave from the same point in South America.

What exactly are you referring to by "every aviation site on the web?"

I mean every website on the internet about flying or planes or pilots, say that you can fly to Antarctica if you want and you are rich enough to have your own plane. There's no official government policy that says that it is restricted airspace and you will be shot down if you don't turn around. You can check Google and see what I mean. Go and find me a site that says you will be shot down if you try to fly over Antarctica without permission. The sites say that you can but you will most likely freeze to death without the necessary equipment or well equipped plane and navigation instruments don't work well near the South Pole or North Pole. Go check Google and see.

Of course, the story above could be made up too. Maybe if you flew there in your own private plane, you really would be intercepted? Who knows. Most people aren't rich enough to have their own plane to try. I wonder if anyone has tried. A few probably has. But they didn't say that the US Air Force intercepted them and told them to turn around.

[Winston]

I posted this under some Flat Earth documentaries:

Dear FEers, I don't dispute your claims, but it seems to be a LIE that you cannot fly over Antarctica or the North Pole due to some militarized no-fly zone. A simple Google search shows that not one single website says that. If I'm wrong, can you show me please? Every aviation site on the web says that you CAN fly over the North and South Pole in your own private plane, and no one will stop you, but it's highly dangerous so very few will try it. But a few have. For instance on Quora it says this:

"Yes, several people have crossed Antarctica by plane. The first successful flight across Antarctica was completed by Lincoln Ellsworth and Herbert Hollick-Kenyon in 1935. They flew from Dundee Island, off the coast of Antarctica, to the Bay of Whales."

How do you explain that? I'm not saying the Earth is not flat, but it seems to be an obvious lie that the US Air Force will shoot you down if you try to fly over the North Pole or Antarctica. Not a single website says that. I brought this up to Eric Dubay but he ignored me. Can you explain? Also, if Antarctica is an ice wall around the Flat Earth, then it would be huge in circumference. No military in the world could police it. Again I asked Eric Dubay about this but he ignored me. Can you guys address this? Thanks.

I don't believe the Earth is flat. I thought a documentary shared had some good points that were interesting, but I just don't think it's credible that the earth can be flat. The ice wall seems to be something else that was added to make the theory somehow make sense.

Of course Eric Dubay ignored you because he has no answer and cannot refute your claim about pilots who fly over the North and South poles.

Well you should see this sequel to the Level documentary. It does make a lot of compelling points about flat earth. For example, at Lake Michigan you can see 60 miles away across the lake and see the Chicago skyline, which is technically impossible on a globe Earth curved at 8 inches squared per mile. It may change your mind.

[Pixel--Dude]

I posted this under some Flat Earth documentaries:

Dear FEers, I don't dispute your claims, but it seems to be a LIE that you cannot fly over Antarctica or the North Pole due to some militarized no-fly zone. A simple Google search shows that not one single website says that. If I'm wrong, can you show me please? Every aviation site on the web says that you CAN fly over the North and South Pole in your own private plane, and no one will stop you, but it's highly dangerous so very few will try it. But a few have. For instance on Quora it says this:

"Yes, several people have crossed Antarctica by plane. The first successful flight across Antarctica was completed by Lincoln Ellsworth and Herbert Hollick-Kenyon in 1935. They flew from Dundee Island, off the coast of Antarctica, to the Bay of Whales."

How do you explain that? I'm not saying the Earth is not flat, but it seems to be an obvious lie that the US Air Force will shoot you down if you try to fly over the North Pole or Antarctica. Not a single website says that. I brought this up to Eric Dubay but he ignored me. Can you explain? Also, if Antarctica is an ice wall around the Flat Earth, then it would be huge in circumference. No military in the world could police it. Again I asked Eric Dubay about this but he ignored me. Can you guys address this? Thanks.

I don't believe the Earth is flat. I thought a documentary shared had some good points that were interesting, but I just don't think it's credible that the earth can be flat. The ice wall seems to be something else that was added to make the theory somehow make sense.

Of course Eric Dubay ignored you because he has no answer and cannot refute your claim about pilots who fly over the North and South poles.

Well you should see this sequel to the Level documentary. It does make a lot of compelling points about flat earth. For example, at Lake Michigan you can see 60 miles away across the lake and see the Chicago skyline, which is technically impossible on a globe Earth curved at 8 inches squared per mile. It may change your mind.

What if their calculations are off? What if the Earth isn't curved at 8 inches squared per mile? What if it's actually more than that. You know how these scientists like to pretend they know every little thing.

Even if this is true about the Chicago skyline the evidence is still stacked against Flat Earth. I made some good points about this to @gsjackson in another thread. Here: viewtopic.php?style=11&f=1&t=49618

[Winston]

What if their calculations are off? What if the Earth isn't curved at 8 inches squared per mile? What if it's actually more than that. You know how these scientists like to pretend they know every little thing.

Even if this is true about the Chicago skyline the evidence is still stacked against Flat Earth. I made some good points about this to @gsjackson in another thread. Here: viewtopic.php?style=11&f=1&t=49618

Could be. But that's just raising the bar. There are other solid arguments too. For example the first billionaire went to space into low earth orbit, 63 miles up, which is very high and definitely high enough to see curvature, yet he saw none. Neil DeGrasse Tyson said that 63 miles is not high enough to see any curvature, which is wrong. If 63 miles up isn't high enough, then what is? That makes no sense. See what I mean?

Also in 1930 Auguste Piccard went up 100,000 feet in a hot air balloon and said "the earth looked like a flat disk with the edges turned up". How do you explain that?

Also if the Earth moves at 500,000 mph and travels trillions of miles per year, why are the rotating stars in the dome sky 100 percent the same every night? Why is the Polaris star fixed and hasn't moved since recorded history? Very hard to explain away, right?

You should watch that sequel documentary above. It contains a lot of compelling arguments and proofs.

[galii]

What if their calculations are off? What if the Earth isn't curved at 8 inches squared per mile? What if it's actually more than that. You know how these scientists like to pretend they know every little thing.

Even if this is true about the Chicago skyline the evidence is still stacked against Flat Earth. I made some good points about this to @gsjackson in another thread. Here: viewtopic.php?style=11&f=1&t=49618

Could be. But that's just raising the bar. There are other solid arguments too. For example the first billionaire went to space into low earth orbit, 63 miles up, which is very high and definitely high enough to see curvature, yet he saw none. Neil DeGrasse Tyson said that 63 miles is not high enough to see any curvature, which is wrong. If 63 miles up isn't high enough, then what is? That makes no sense. See what I mean?

Also in 1930 Auguste Piccard went up 100,000 feet in a hot air balloon and said "the earth looked like a flat disk with the edges turned up". How do you explain that?

Also if the Earth moves at 500,000 mph and travels trillions of miles per year, why are the rotating stars in the dome sky 100 percent the same every night? Why is the Polaris star fixed and hasn't moved since recorded history? Very hard to explain away, right?

You should watch that sequel documentary above. It contains a lot of compelling arguments and proofs.

You must be TROLLING. I explained it multiple times. There are many youtube videos where it is explained very good.

[Winston]

Shelly from the Question the Narrative series makes some interesting points about Antarctica and the ice wall and flat earth model.



Some questions I posted for her:

@happierabroad
2 minutes ago (edited)
Shelly, I read that several people have flown across Antarctica and one woman even went across it on skis. lol. That's what Google and Wikipedia claim. Are those stories true or hoaxes? If they are true, does that debunk the flat earth model? Also have you seen "Antarctica: A Year on Ice"? It shows aurora borealis lights at the South Pole. Is that real?

@happierabroad
2 minutes ago (edited)
Shelly can you get to the bottom of something since you're a good researcher? Can you find out what would happen if a rich person bought a plane in New Zealand and tried to fly over Antarctica? I ask because the flat earthers like Eric Dubay keep saying you will be shot down if you try to do that. But they have no evidence or sources to prove that. And when I ask them they have no answer. If you will be get shot down if you fly over Antarctica on your own, then it's probably some unofficial law. But if so how do flat earthers know about it? Where do they get that? They just repeat what each other says. But nothing in Google says you can't fly over Antarctica. The aviation sites just say it's dangerous and risky and unadvisable unless you know what you're doing. Can you get to the bottom of this? I'm stuck and Google doesn't help.


Shelly's analysis of the Flat Earth theory and debate. She makes good points and is a true freethinker.