Morally, is Sugar Daddying/Spoiling women prostitution?

[Cornfed]

Yeah, Paul was kind of weirdly anti-sex. Most of the Bible endorses marriage.

[MrMan]

The bible expressly discourages marriage, full stop. Christian clerics simply ignore that discouragement in order to preside over increasingly larger hordes of brainwashed man-drones.

Anybody who ENCOURAGES marriage is anti-biblical regardless of their weak excuses.

You should stay away from giving advice on areas where you lack knowledge. The Old Testament encouraged Israelites to marry and have children. Paul encouraged celibacy but advised marriage for those who cannot contain, for it is better to marry than to burn.

If you do not marry, then that means celibacy, as in no sex. You do not seem to be that kind of MGTOW to me.

[MrMan]

Verse 38
So then, he who marries the virgin does right, but he who does not marry her does better.

Read your own quote. Marriage is not wrong. It is 'right.' Not marrying is better, but that's not marrying without fornicating.

What do you care about pleasing the Lord?

[Contrarian Expatriate]

You should stay away from giving advice on areas where you lack knowledge. The Old Testament encouraged Israelites to marry and have children.

You mean that same old testament that encourages marriage between cousins and allows polygamy? Would your religious wife be ok with that? And since when are we non-Jews Israelites? Marriages of gentiles are treated far differently in the Old Testament. So before you try to come off as some biblical expert, you should first try mustering just a basic understanding of its treatment of marriage.

Paul encouraged celibacy but advised marriage for those who cannot contain, for it is better to marry than to burn.

Yet another LIE to suit your agenda.... Paul specifically advised AGAINST marriage but CONDONED marriage only for those who could not muster control their sexual urges. He also adds that those who marry should expect a multitude of problems and worldly troubles which you seem to think all men should be stupid enough bring upon themselves just because you did.

If you do not marry, then that means celibacy, as in no sex. You do not seem to be that kind of MGTOW to me.

They did not have courthouses and state-sanctioned marital ceremonies back then so marriage then did not mean what it means today. Marriage in those days meant being in a relationship with a woman. The state contract marriage that you imposed on yourself was not a biblical necessity so you did all of that for naught!

[Contrarian Expatriate]

Verse 38
So then, he who marries the virgin does right, but he who does not marry her does better.

Read your own quote. Marriage is not wrong. It is 'right.' Not marrying is better, but that's not marrying without fornicating.

What do you care about pleasing the Lord?

So at least you admit that not marrying is "better" than marrying. Progress finally!
Now that being the case, stop trying to pull other men into the marital trap because it is not necessary nor healthy in this present day and age. Marriage in a small village of 10 people might have been necessary, but to do it today is just downright foolish.

[Neo]

Yeah, Paul was kind of weirdly anti-sex. Most of the Bible endorses marriage.

Paul's standard is that a man should not even touch a woman. That forbids fornication altogether.

1 Corinthians 7
[1] Now concerning the things whereof ye wrote unto me: It is good for a man not to touch a woman.

[2] Nevertheless, to avoid fornication, let every man have his own wife, and let every woman have her own husband.

Paul's standard is 100% celibacy for the man who doesn't have a woman.

[MrMan]

Verse 38
So then, he who marries the virgin does right, but he who does not marry her does better.

Read your own quote. Marriage is not wrong. It is 'right.' Not marrying is better, but that's not marrying without fornicating.

What do you care about pleasing the Lord?

So at least you admit that not marrying is "better" than marrying. Progress finally!
Now that being the case, stop trying to pull other men into the marital trap because it is not necessary nor healthy in this present day and age. Marriage in a small village of 10 people might have been necessary, but to do it today is just downright foolish.

Not marrying is better if one stays celibate out of a desire to please the Lord. But marrying is far superior to sinning by fornicating. This has been my position on the issue since at least my early teenage years when I read I Corinthians.

[MrMan]

You mean that same old testament that encourages marriage between cousins and allows polygamy? Would your religious wife be ok with that? And since when are we non-Jews Israelites? Marriages of gentiles are treated far differently in the Old Testament. So before you try to come off as some biblical expert, you should first try mustering just a basic understanding of its treatment of marriage.

The Old Testament does not have much treatment of marriages of non-Israelites after the time of Moses unless they were marrying Israelites. Yes, the Old Testament did have laws that regulated polygamy. I think we are all aware of that. Marrying cousins was allowed. I do not see where it was encouraged (or discouraged) as a general practice. Many cultures practice that, probably most of our own did until less than two centuries ago. The royal families of Europe really overdid it and marrying cousins fell out of vogue.

Paul encouraged celibacy but advised marriage for those who cannot contain, for it is better to marry than to burn.

Yet another LIE to suit your agenda....

If you aren't even going to bother to read the chapter, then you shouldn't call someone else a liar for saying what it says. It does not make you look very good, honestly.

I Corinthians 7
9 But if they cannot contain, let them marry: for it is better to marry than to burn.

Paul specifically advised AGAINST marriage but CONDONED marriage only for those who could not muster control their sexual urges. He also adds that those who marry should expect a multitude of problems and worldly troubles which you seem to think all men should be stupid enough bring upon themselves just because you did.

I don't have a problem with men being celibate for life. This forum seems to be dominated by men who want sex, rather than men who want celibacy.

If you want to remain celibate for life to have more time and energy to devote to the service of God, go for it. Of course, if no one marries, then the population dies out eventually.

Paul realized that not everyone was cut out for life-long celibacy.

7 For I would that all men were even as I myself. But every man hath his proper gift of God, one after this manner, and another after that.

If you do not marry, then that means celibacy, as in no sex. You do not seem to be that kind of MGTOW to me.

They did not have courthouses and state-sanctioned marital ceremonies back then so marriage then did not mean what it means today. Marriage in those days meant being in a relationship with a woman. The state contract marriage that you imposed on yourself was not a biblical necessity so you did all of that for naught!

[/quote]

Their not having the same legal system we have for marriage does not mean they did not have marriage customs. Father's gave their daughters in marriage. In Jewish culture, if she was a virgin, the man paid a bride price to the father of the bride. My father-in-law gave his daughter away at our marriage.

[Contrarian Expatriate]

It's pathetic that you actually see this collection of mish mash rule over your life. Bad enough that you don't even understand much of it, and worse that it is your life blueprint.

Well, the bible does condone slavery so your slavery to wife and family is biblically sanctioned.

[Contrarian Expatriate]

The Old Testament does not have much treatment of marriages of non-Israelites after the time of Moses unless they were marrying Israelites. Yes, the Old Testament did have laws that regulated polygamy. I think we are all aware of that. Marrying cousins was allowed. I do not see where it was encouraged (or discouraged) as a general practice. Many cultures practice that, probably most of our own did until less than two centuries ago. The royal families of Europe really overdid it and marrying cousins fell out of vogue.

You really make this too easy!

The biblical practice of cousins marrying simply "fell out of vogue" as you put it? Then why are you not also willing to admit that modern marriage is overdone and falling out of vogue ? We all know it is because you are trapped in a marriage so your ego can't bear that realization.

Also, why would cousin marriage fall out of vogue if the bible says it is ok? BECAUSE IT IS CALLED INBREEDING and successive generations of that cause people to have physical and intellectual defects the likes of which is still going on in many Arab societies even though the bible is fine with it.

Since you also obviously support polygamy since it is "biblically approved," why don't you broach the idea by your Indonesian wife and see what happens to you?

MrMan: "Slavery, inbreeding, polygamy, and marriage are all biblically ok but you just have to understand that they all must be 'regulated' and don't fall out of vogue!"


Exactly as I said, many of these devout "Christians" will always dance a frenetic jig to try to obfuscate their addlebrained views which they can't otherwise justify. Well done, MrMan, you did exactly as I predicted

[MrMan]

Contrarian Expat,

I hear when cousins have children, positive characteritics can be emphasized, too, not only genetic abnormalities. Most of us, if we traced our families back far enough, came from peoples were cousins intermarried from time to time. The royal families of Europe did it too much for too long. I would have been icked out at the idea of marrying a first cousin growing up, but I was raised in a culture where this wasn't acceptable. There are still some cultures where marrying first cousins isn't looked down upon, or certain first cousins, for example not from the same father's family. Cousins marrying is not an immoral thing. It's just something that goes against our cultural mores.

It's possible Ashkenazi Jews tend to have higher IQs because of inbreeding. I hear a lot of them are basically fourth cousins genetically. I've also heard that people in general are genetically 7th cousins or closer in terms of genetics. I wondered if they were talking about the general US population, or if that applies to Eskimos marrying Hottentots, too.

Polygamy, God allowed it. Christ taught against a man divorcing his wife and marrying another because 'two shall be one flesh.' Monogamy is in line with the original intention of marriage.

Slavery, yes, God allowed that as well, but regulated it in Israel. Again, this is something that goes against United States and western cultural values, which do not always line up with what God has revealed to be sins. There are plenty of things man Americans are fine with that are sins, and some things that go against American mores that are not sinful.

[Contrarian Expatriate]

Contrarian Expat,

I hear when cousins have children, positive characteritics can be emphasized, too, not only genetic abnormalities. Most of us, if we traced our families back far enough, came from peoples were cousins intermarried from time to time. The royal families of Europe did it too much for too long. I would have been icked out at the idea of marrying a first cousin growing up, but I was raised in a culture where this wasn't acceptable. There are still some cultures where marrying first cousins isn't looked down upon, or certain first cousins, for example not from the same father's family. Cousins marrying is not an immoral thing. It's just something that goes against our cultural mores.

It's possible Ashkenazi Jews tend to have higher IQs because of inbreeding. I hear a lot of them are basically fourth cousins genetically. I've also heard that people in general are genetically 7th cousins or closer in terms of genetics. I wondered if they were talking about the general US population, or if that applies to Eskimos marrying Hottentots, too.

Polygamy, God allowed it. Christ taught against a man divorcing his wife and marrying another because 'two shall be one flesh.' Monogamy is in line with the original intention of marriage.

Slavery, yes, God allowed that as well, but regulated it in Israel. Again, this is something that goes against United States and western cultural values, which do not always line up with what God has revealed to be sins. There are plenty of things man Americans are fine with that are sins, and some things that go against American mores that are not sinful.

Science debunks what you heard. I encourage you to look up the effects of inbreeding today in Amish communities in addition to Arab ones. Also, Jews culturally select for high intelligence and have been doing so for many generations. However, they suffer from a subset of unique genetic ailments because of that .

[Neo]

It could just be that in the ancient days, because they were closer to Adam, there were fewer genetic anomalies. Therefore fewer worries. Besides that, there were fewer people to breed with who weren't heathen unbelievers. Basically there simply weren't enough non-relatives to mate with.

[MrMan]

Contrarian Expat,

I hear when cousins have children, positive characteritics can be emphasized, too, not only genetic abnormalities. Most of us, if we traced our families back far enough, came from peoples were cousins intermarried from time to time. The royal families of Europe did it too much for too long. I would have been icked out at the idea of marrying a first cousin growing up, but I was raised in a culture where this wasn't acceptable. There are still some cultures where marrying first cousins isn't looked down upon, or certain first cousins, for example not from the same father's family. Cousins marrying is not an immoral thing. It's just something that goes against our cultural mores.

It's possible Ashkenazi Jews tend to have higher IQs because of inbreeding. I hear a lot of them are basically fourth cousins genetically. I've also heard that people in general are genetically 7th cousins or closer in terms of genetics. I wondered if they were talking about the general US population, or if that applies to Eskimos marrying Hottentots, too.

Polygamy, God allowed it. Christ taught against a man divorcing his wife and marrying another because 'two shall be one flesh.' Monogamy is in line with the original intention of marriage.

Slavery, yes, God allowed that as well, but regulated it in Israel. Again, this is something that goes against United States and western cultural values, which do not always line up with what God has revealed to be sins. There are plenty of things man Americans are fine with that are sins, and some things that go against American mores that are not sinful.

[Contrarian Expatriate]

Contrarian Expat,

I hear when cousins have children, positive characteristics can be emphasized, too, not only genetic abnormalities.

I'm not sure where you heard this, but it is not generally true. There are things such as the Founders' Effect and uncorrected hereditary mutations that are caused by this.

Cousins marrying is not an immoral thing. It's just something that goes against our cultural mores.

I disagree.... Would you say siblings marrying is immoral? Well, cousins marrying is immoral for the same reason just to a lesser degree.

It's possible Ashkenazi Jews tend to have higher IQs because of inbreeding.

Not true. Ashkenazi Jews have practiced selective breeding for intelligence for centuries. But the downside has been poor genetic variation which leads to Tay-Sachs disease and other ailments common in that community.

Polygamy, God allowed it. Christ taught against a man divorcing his wife and marrying another because 'two shall be one flesh.' Monogamy is in line with the original intention of marriage.

This is again that frenetic, mental dance you tend to do when you've been proven wrong.

Slavery, yes, God allowed that as well, but regulated it in Israel. Again, this is something that goes against United States and western cultural values, which do not always line up with what God has revealed to be sins. There are plenty of things man Americans are fine with that are sins, and some things that go against American mores that are not sinful.

Slavery was regulated in the USA as well so that made it fine and dandy in your eyes?

Some of this should be a clue to that the bible is not a valid arbiter of what is right and wrong. It is an ancient book that people unable to govern themselves used to govern their lives. Today people like yourself are simply brainwashed and fear-mongered into following it. You can't be free if you are tethered to the tales, myths, and lies of some "holy" book.