How ignorant people are of the facts of covid? It's not the bubonic plague

[Cornfed]

There is something wrong with you. Of course covid 19 exists. It's ridiculous how you don't take this seriously.

If we have reason to believe in exists then it must have been isolated. Could you link to the paper?

[Cornfed]

Cornfed doubts the virus exists and says that masks are useless. My niece had covid 19 but she recovered.

How do you know she had covid19 and not the usual cold or flu? You might say she was tested, but if so this once again implies that the virus has been isolated.

[Yohan]

There is something wrong with you. Of course covid 19 exists. It's ridiculous how you don't take this seriously.

If we have reason to believe in exists then it must have been isolated. Could you link to the paper?

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC7045880/

Every detail you can find in this long report

Identification of Coronavirus Isolated from a Patient in Korea with COVID-19

This study was funded by Korea Centers for Disease Control and Prevention (no.: 4800-4837-301 and 4800-4834-303). The authors thank Mr. Jun Sub Kim of Korea CDC for his help in sequencing analysis.

There are other research teams too of course which successfully isolated the covid-19 virus

https://theconversation.com/i-study-vir ... mic-133675

Ultimately two teams in Canada would isolate the virus for study: one at the University of Saskatchewan and one that featured researchers from McMaster University, Sunnybrook Health Sciences Centre and the University of Toronto.

[Cornfed]

There is something wrong with you. Of course covid 19 exists. It's ridiculous how you don't take this seriously.

If we have reason to believe in exists then it must have been isolated. Could you link to the paper?

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC7045880/

Every detail you can find in this long report

Identification of Coronavirus Isolated from a Patient in Korea with COVID-19

This study was funded by Korea Centers for Disease Control and Prevention (no.: 4800-4837-301 and 4800-4834-303). The authors thank Mr. Jun Sub Kim of Korea CDC for his help in sequencing analysis.

There are other research teams too of course which successfully isolated the covid-19 virus

https://theconversation.com/i-study-vir ... mic-133675

Ultimately two teams in Canada would isolate the virus for study: one at the University of Saskatchewan and one that featured researchers from McMaster University, Sunnybrook Health Sciences Centre and the University of Toronto.

I'd have to take the time to read through the papers, but thanks, that might well do it. Not that it matters that much. It is still the common cold that they are attributing other respiratory viruses to.

[Yohan]

Cornfed doubts the virus exists and says that masks are useless. My niece had covid 19 but she recovered.

How do you know she had covid19 and not the usual cold or flu? You might say she was tested, but if so this once again implies that the virus has been isolated.

https://fullfact.org/health/Covid-isolated-virus/

Dr Stephen Griffin, a virologist and Associate Professor at Leeds Institute of Medical Research...
PCR tests used in Covid-19 testing are extremely sensitive and specific at detecting Covid-19 and do not confuse other coronaviruses, such as ones that cause the common cold, for Covid-19.

“The PCR test is incredibly stringent and specific, requires two separate reactions to be positive ... and EVERY test is also sequenced, so we know it is SARS-CoV2 and not another virus,” said Dr Griffin.

https://www.cdc.gov/flu/professionals/d ... /index.htm

Information for Clinicians on Influenza Virus Testing

While it is difficult to see a difference between covid-19 and flu, testing makes it clear, what is flu and what not.

https://www.who.int/emergencies/disease ... -influenza

Coronavirus disease (COVID-19): Similarities and differences with influenza

-------------------------

Here in Japan, I have to look up those links again, many small medical private clinics report to have a problem to see a clear difference between covid-19 and flu and therefore send their patients (or samples of saliva etc.) to designated hospitals for testing.

Medical doctors in hospitals with advanced laboratories however do not report any problem to find out what is covid-19 and what is flu.

I remember a report that about 75 percent of those transferred patients are sent home after a few hours of waiting within the hospital, diagnose is only a harmless seasonal flu.

We do not have any covid-19 vaccine in Japan yet - but medical clinics are very busy to vaccine as many people as possible against pneumonia and seasonal flu.

The major concern in Japan is about being infected with covid-19 and flu at the same time,as this can result in a life-threatening condition in case if the patient - of any age - develops also pneumonia or other serious medical issues.

[Yohan]

Goodness, Japan is doing a lot better than the UK in terms of total numbers of covid-related deaths. In the UK it's well over 60,000.
.....
NOTE; in the UK people get registered as a covid death if they die within 28 days of a positive test. I don't know what the situation is in Japan.

South Korea also has similar results:
In English
https://kosis.kr/covid_eng/covid_index.do
Most data you can find here, link above
or here:
http://ncov.mohw.go.kr/en

So far 879 deaths out of 52 million people.

--------------------------------------

Japanese data you can find here, if you scroll down near a barcode you find a link to switch the Japanese language to English
https://www.stopcovid19.jp

-------------------------------------------

About how both countries count the deaths, I don't know, but for sure the total number of deaths do not show any difference between 2018,2019 and 2020 if you compare month by month, about the same.

Japan has about 1.37 million funerals registered per year, and 3315 deaths more or less related to covid-19 or not do not play a major role - as a huge majority of covid-19 deaths in Japan are not so young people anyway.

Today 31,744 people are covid-19 related in hospital care, out of 126 million people. Not so many, internationally seen, but the number of patients is going slowly up.

There is no covid-19 vaccine approved and available in Japan and South Korea.

[mattyman]

@ Yohan re excess deaths

About how both countries count the deaths, I don't know, but for sure the total number of deaths do not show any difference between 2018,2019 and 2020 if you compare month by month, about the same.

Japan has about 1.37 million funerals registered per year, and 3315 deaths more or less related to covid-19 or not do not play a major role - as a huge majority of covid-19 deaths in Japan are not so young people anyway.

Today 31,744 people are covid-19 related in hospital care, out of 126 million people. Not so many, internationally seen, but the number of patients is going slowly up.

There is no covid-19 vaccine approved and available in Japan and South Korea.

Same is true with the UK and much of Europe. The truth is, 2019/2020 was a very mild winter flu season for many countries in Europe. The reality is that 2020 hasn't been anything special in terms of 'excess deaths'. SARS COV 2 came along, a new virus, there was a lot of susceptible people who sadly passed due to complications from existing health conditions, most of whom were very elderly and had chronic conditions, the conditions that are 'high risk'.

Covid has been through it's epidemic phase, what we're seeing now is a seasonal resurgence, same as what happens with all respiratory illnesses. If you look at the rate of rise in infections, hospitalisations or deaths you'll notice that there's nowhere near as steep a rise as in the first wave. If anything, the peak is flattening-off.

[yick]

@ Yohan re excess deaths

About how both countries count the deaths, I don't know, but for sure the total number of deaths do not show any difference between 2018,2019 and 2020 if you compare month by month, about the same.

Japan has about 1.37 million funerals registered per year, and 3315 deaths more or less related to covid-19 or not do not play a major role - as a huge majority of covid-19 deaths in Japan are not so young people anyway.

Today 31,744 people are covid-19 related in hospital care, out of 126 million people. Not so many, internationally seen, but the number of patients is going slowly up.

There is no covid-19 vaccine approved and available in Japan and South Korea.

Same is true with the UK and much of Europe. The truth is, 2019/2020 was a very mild winter flu season for many countries in Europe. The reality is that 2020 hasn't been anything special in terms of 'excess deaths'. SARS COV 2 came along, a new virus, there was a lot of susceptible people who sadly passed due to complications from existing health conditions, most of whom were very elderly and had chronic conditions, the conditions that are 'high risk'.

Covid has been through it's epidemic phase, what we're seeing now is a seasonal resurgence, same as what happens with all respiratory illnesses. If you look at the rate of rise in infections, hospitalisations or deaths you'll notice that there's nowhere near as steep a rise as in the first wave. If anything, the peak is flattening-off.

The problem are the 'spreaders' who are killing people unintentionally, we now know that the worst spreaders are - guess who - teenage children at school - who won't die of it but can pass it on and kill people who are suspectible to it - like grandma and granddad.

Anyway, the vaccine has come out and you can be part of the solution instead of being part of the problem...

Before I go - can I ask you why there are only 900 deaths in South Korea - where people did as they were f***ing told - and 73000 deaths in the UK - where the likes of you cried, whinged, moaned, caused fake news and basically did nothing to help the situation?

[Cornfed]

The problem are the 'spreaders' who are killing people unintentionally, we now know that the worst spreaders are - guess who - teenage children at school - who won't die of it but can pass it on and kill people who are suspectible to it - like grandma and granddad.

The thing is that we have all unintentionally given and received cold viruses. This is an accepted normal part of the human condition and always has been. If people aren't prepared to accept the risks inherent in normal society they need to go and live in the wilderness.

[yick]

The problem are the 'spreaders' who are killing people unintentionally, we now know that the worst spreaders are - guess who - teenage children at school - who won't die of it but can pass it on and kill people who are suspectible to it - like grandma and granddad.

The thing is that we have all unintentionally given and received cold viruses. This is an accepted normal part of the human condition and always has been. If people aren't prepared to accept the risks inherent in normal society they need to go and live in the wilderness.

If this was ebola - where the likes of mattyman would probably die of it, he would be hiding under his bed alongside everyone else until a vaccine/safety measures that worked came out, the difference is that COVID won't kill him so he doesn't give a f**k - he isn't on his own - it's this selfishness because it won't effect them then why should they sacrifice three months of their lives - like the Chinese did - and now they're back to normal.

All it would have took is three months lockdown.

Why is it that Singapore had so few deaths? Because people did the lockdown - mattymans argument is lockdowns don't work but they do - it has been proven that they do - he just doesn't want to do one and trying to justify his selfishness with some kind of cod-science.

[Cornfed]

If this was ebola - where the likes of mattyman would probably die of it, he would be hiding under his bed alongside everyone else until a vaccine/safety measures that worked came out, the difference is that COVID won't kill him so he doesn't give a f**k - he isn't on his own - it's this selfishness because it won't effect them then why should they sacrifice three months of their lives - like the Chinese did - and now they're back to normal.

All it would have took is three months lockdown.

Even with really dangerous diseases like ebola we only forcibly quarantine the sick and life goes on. With colds and flu it is just the accepted norm that you will get them from time to time, and if you are unlucky enough to die of it then bad luck. If we are going to shut down for three months or however long whenever there is some kind of cold going around then this is going to bring about the complete social and economic collapse of society as we know it and the deaths of billions. This should all be very obvious.

[mattyman]

Goodness gracious. This isn't ebola. Ebola is far worse for woking-age people tan covid 19. You're trying to use argumentum ad-hominem sir.

I know there's differences in opinion on this matter, and I want this discussion to be as civil as possible.

You mention making a sacrifice, sacrificing 3 months. Except this isn't 'sacrificing 3' months sir, it's potentially YEARS of this short life sir.

RE Why has Singapore had so few deaths? We could also argue, why has Japan had so few deaths in comparison to countries like Belgium, Peru or the USA's New York State. You're on;y comparing harsh lockdown countries with and leaving out the per-capita death rates.

If covid logic was applied to road traffic; 'I got knocked off my bike, thus everyone should be banned from driving for MY safety', 'a car nearly ran into me, we should stop everyone from driving for MY safety'.

May I conclude, do you either a) hate freedom or b) are trying to make yourself popular by supporting a 'trendy' narrative for your own ego?

Can you provide any facts and evidence to back-up your claims? Can you contribute to the discussion?

[yick]

Goodness gracious. This isn't ebola. Ebola is far worse for woking-age people tan covid 19. You're trying to use argumentum ad-hominem sir.

I know there's differences in opinion on this matter, and I want this discussion to be as civil as possible.

You mention making a sacrifice, sacrificing 3 months. Except this isn't 'sacrificing 3' months sir, it's potentially YEARS of this short life sir.

RE Why has Singapore had so few deaths? We could also argue, why has Japan had so few deaths in comparison to countries like Belgium, Peru or the USA's New York State. You're on;y comparing harsh lockdown countries with and leaving out the per-capita death rates.

If covid logic was applied to road traffic; 'I got knocked off my bike, thus everyone should be banned from driving for MY safety', 'a car nearly ran into me, we should stop everyone from driving for MY safety'.

May I conclude, do you either a) hate freedom or b) are trying to make yourself popular by supporting a 'trendy' narrative for your own ego?

Can you provide any facts and evidence to back-up your claims? Can you contribute to the discussion?

See, this is because you don't give a f**k - because you are unlikely not to die from it, you just don't give a f**k - at least be honest about it instead of dressing it up in cod-science. You're not a scientist or know anything about it apart from watching a few You Tube videos that align to your viewpoint.

Three months was all it took with the Chinese and we're BACK TO NORMAL - it is all it would have took for the UK but no - the likes of you can't hack something that effects your short term pleasures - let me just explain something by the way - I am in China at the moment and did their lockdown - it was hard and it would have made you cry but we got through it and now the country is back to normal so lockdown works but that's because the people did it.

You're on;y comparing harsh lockdown countries with and leaving out the per-capita death rates.

I am comparing countries where the populace did their lockdown, where the culture works towards a common goal - in the UK there are too many people like you who simply do not give a shit because it doesn't effect them so they don't care because it is affecting their self-gratification. Guess what? Nine months later - you still have COVID and on a third wave.

I live in a country where there has been a successful lockdown and things are back to normal. There hasn't even been a second wave.

[yick]

If this was ebola - where the likes of mattyman would probably die of it, he would be hiding under his bed alongside everyone else until a vaccine/safety measures that worked came out, the difference is that COVID won't kill him so he doesn't give a f**k - he isn't on his own - it's this selfishness because it won't effect them then why should they sacrifice three months of their lives - like the Chinese did - and now they're back to normal.

All it would have took is three months lockdown.

Even with really dangerous diseases like ebola we only forcibly quarantine the sick and life goes on. With colds and flu it is just the accepted norm that you will get them from time to time, and if you are unlucky enough to die of it then bad luck. If we are going to shut down for three months or however long whenever there is some kind of cold going around then this is going to bring about the complete social and economic collapse of society as we know it and the deaths of billions. This should all be very obvious.

Well, no, because all people had to do was the f***ing lockdown like they did here in China and guess what? We're back to normal.

Lockdown works if people do it, it doesn't if people don't give a shit and want to do what they want.

[Cornfed]

Well, no, because all people had to do was the f***ing lockdown like they did here in China and guess what? We're back to normal.

But covid will be back as with any seasonal virus and in any case there will always be other kinds of colds and flu going round. They are just a fact of human life in most places. The reason China is back to normal is that they have decided to stop being silly and accept this, which they could have done at any time.