How ignorant people are of the facts of covid? It's not the bubonic plague

[mattyman]

Merry Christmas everyone!

A lot of people over-estimate how dangerous covid-19 is and think it's the next next bubonic plague.

When I announced among my colleagues 'can anyone tell me the average age of covid-related deaths in the UK', the answer's I got were overwhelmingly 'don't know'. Then when I told them it was 82, most were very surprised. That is f***ing staggering!

(I left out the fact that the average age of covid-related deaths in Italy is 86 and in the USA 79).

When I mentioned; 'can you give me a figure for the percentage of covid-related deaths associated with care homes'? The answer was 'don't know'. When I said it was nearly 50% again a lot of people were surprised.

I also asked if anyone could give me a figure for healthy under 60's who're not clinically-vulnerable. The answer of course was 'don't know'. As of Late September/early October the covid-related death toll stood at 57.347 odd. The total numbers of people who're under 60 without any of the risk factor medical conditions was around 307. I mentioned that only 307 of the deaths were healthy under 60's. Again most people were surprised.

Now, that figure I gave you 57.347 is ALL cohorts. If we were to include only the under 60's, it would likely be significanlty less (even including clinically-vulnerably cohorts https://www.nhs.uk/conditions/coronavir ... ronavirus/).

In conclusion, the first step to getting back our freedom is to educate the masses of the facts that the media are using to mislead and amplify fear and blow it out of perspective.

What matters is 'infection fatality rate' not total numbers. Out of all the 'cases' (positive tests) how many have died? Break that down and compare it previous pandemics. That gives us a clearer picture.

See how easy it is for the mainstream media to mislead and misrepresent statistics?

The reason I'm making this post is not for you, but for your friends and family who swallow everthing the tv tells you hook, line and sinker.

Remember;
"He who trades his freedom for security gets nor deserves neither" Benjamin Franklin.

Boy has that never been more true in any time in history!

[Yohan]

A lot of people over-estimate how dangerous covid-19 is and think it's the next next bubonic plague.

In many cases of infected patients I would say the danger of covid-19 is overrated, but unfortunately not always.

It depends on the situation,

if you are a rather young person, preferably female, not over 50+ and have no other issues with your health, you likely will recover easily after being infected with covid-19.

However if you have just now a harmless seasonal flu and are infected additionally with covid-19, you might find yourself in a life-threatening situation, without medical care you might develop a severe pneumonia or other illnesses.

Further, for older people covid-19 is not an easy illness.

It also depends where you are living and if you have a good health insurance and medical facilities, your survival rate is indeed much better than you are poor, are somewhere living in poor countries and have nowhere to go for medical help.

[mattyman]

The bottom line is, for the vast majority of people under the age of 60 who're not in the clinically-vulnerable segments defined loud and clear in the linked article, covid 19 is of little risk. It is of course dangerous for older people & people with those other clinical vulnerabilities. I'm not denying.

Did anyone look at the linked article from the UK National Health Service that clearly defines the clinically-vulnerable/at-risk groups (defined by health care agencies of many countries) or will I have to manually post some bullet points?

There are better ways of protecting multi-generation households, working people over 60 who don't have the option of working from home, retired people living from home & residents of care homes (who due to bad policy to empty hospitals were discharged from covid-ridden wards to infect the most vulnerable members of society).

It doesn't justify turning the world into a dictatorship. Focused protection of the most vulnerable segments as a first line of defense and PROMPT TREATMENT of clinically-vulnerable people is the way to go about it & targetted shielding as a preventative measure. The whole 'lockdown' regime is just very badly thought through.

Lockdowns ('suppression' measures) originally meant to 'delay' just simply prolong the epidemic. They had their place when we didn't know what we were dealing with, when we didn't know much about it. These policies 'stopping infections at all costs' stop non-vunerable segments getting it and developing immunity which will help end the epidemic.

Lockdowns policies harm the young but do little to protect the most vulnerable. Young people have little to lose from becoming infected, but a lot to lose from lockdowns, older people have little to lose from lockdowns, but a lot to lose if they get infected.

[Tsar]

It also depends where you are living and if you have a good health insurance and medical facilities, your survival rate is indeed much better than you are poor, are somewhere living in poor countries and have nowhere to go for medical help.

Could I get free healthcare in the EU if I got the Flu or Covid-19 without actually having health insurance?

I have emergency medical insurance in Bulgaria and excellent health insurance back in America but no actual health insurance in the EU and I couldn't afford to pay out of pocket anywhere in the EU unless the total cost for everything was €100 or my family sent me money.

Maybe you know? What do public hospitals in the EU do if someone has no health insurance, no job, and cannot pay for healthcare?

[mattyman]

@ Tsar these questions are answered. In the EU if you're a citizen like myself, you can get an EHIC card. I don't know whether that's ending in the UK due to Brexit. That's what I've used in the past when I've done volunteer work and travelled around Europe. I think these practical matters of living abroad are talked about in other areas of the forum. It might be worthwhile out those sections of the site.

Back to topic; for now, I think the key to getting freedom back is putting the risk of covid in perspective. Yes it is dangerous, there's no denying that I'm not a 'covid denier'. I think it should be upto individuals to assess their own level of risk rather than be told by the state.

[Yohan]

Could I get free healthcare in the EU if I got the Flu or Covid-19 without actually having health insurance?
....
Maybe you know? What do public hospitals in the EU do if someone has no health insurance, no job, and cannot pay for healthcare?

If your principal residence is registered within EU ( as EU-citizen or as a foreigner from outside EU holding a resident permit) you are obliged to report for income tax and pay your contributions into the national insurance system.

In this case you are eligible for the European insurance card and you can use it in all EU-territory.

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I do not qualify for European insurance, despite I am EU-citizen (EU-Austria) because I am living in Japan as a permanent resident and I have to pay for taxes and national insurance in Japan.

[Tsar]

Could I get free healthcare in the EU if I got the Flu or Covid-19 without actually having health insurance?
....
Maybe you know? What do public hospitals in the EU do if someone has no health insurance, no job, and cannot pay for healthcare?

If your principal residence is registered within EU ( as EU-citizen or as a foreigner from outside EU holding a resident permit) you are obliged to report for income tax and pay your contributions into the national insurance system.

In this case you are eligible for the European insurance card and you can use it in all EU-territory.

-----------------------------------------

I do not qualify for European insurance, despite I am EU-citizen (EU-Austria) because I am living in Japan as a permanent resident and I have to pay for taxes and national insurance in Japan.

There is one slight issue. I am living at AirBnBs. I don't know if I can get an EHIC sent to an EU PO Box. My primary principal residence is still listed as the US despite me being homeless now in the US. I would not have a true residence in the EU to actually register with Italy that I am in the EU.

I guess I really need to buy a flat so I can have a permanent address and get a EHIC.

[mattyman]

Back to the topic; covid 19 is low risk for people who're under 60 who don't have chronic risk factors clearly identified here in this article from the UK National Health Service https://www.nhs.uk/conditions/coronavir ... ronavirus/ the risk of severe illness and death is negligible. This list is also on the government website and also the websites of governments of other countries and public health agencies for many countries.

What are the percentage a) who're under 60 and b) who don't have the listed conditions on the link provided?!

If you can give me an answer that's fine. If the media can't, the media aren't really competent.

[Yohan]

Back to the topic; covid 19 is low risk for people who're under 60 who don't have chronic risk factors

What are the percentage a) who're under 60 and b) who don't have the listed conditions on the link provided?!

If you can give me an answer that's fine. If the media can't, the media aren't really competent.

The situation is as follows:
Data collected/online by Japan Association for Clinical Engineers and from Hallym University and Guro Hospital, Seoul

I can give you only the figures we have here in Japan (and also from South Korea, quite similar data) - and not about Europe or USA.

age and percentage of death, no known medical issues

80+ 11.6 %
70+ 6.3 %
60+1.5 %
50+ 0.4 %
30+ 0.1 %

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age and percentage of death, patients with serious medical issues

80+ 20 %
70+ 10 %

No significant difference seen with patients younger than 70.

-----------------------------

Deaths of males outnumber deaths of females in every province in Japan and South Korea,
the ratio is not clear yet, reports are between 2:1 up to 4:1 for patients 60+

-----------------------------

Out of the tested people who found positive:

40 % of them had no symptoms at all, but nevertheless they tested positive.

Out of these 40 %
about 70 % got covid-19 symptoms within 14 days
about 30 % had no symptoms at all and tested later on negative.

Very few people tested positive - later on negative, considered as recovered - and a few weeks later positive again...they got covid-19 again.

-------------------------------

Data about patients are starting from Feb. 2020 up to 28th Dec. 2020 19:33 - last update for all Japan is as follows:

183.418 full recovery
31.110 in quarantine / in hospitals
3.270 patients died

There is no difference in number of deaths records from 2018, 2019 and 2020 comparing each month to month,
Japan registered 1.381.093 deaths in 2019, and it will be about the same or even a little lower in 2020 (data not available yet, only estimates, around 1.37 million death)

There are 53.965 reserved beds in Japan for Covid-19 patients and 57.6 % are occupied today.
For intensive care there are 28.197 ventilators and 1412 ECMO (Extracorporeal membrane oxygenation) available in case of breathing issues.

-----
Other data about covid-19 in Japan:

1 % of infected people die
1 % survive but only after weeks in critical condition requiring intensive medical care.

4 % of all people tested (so far 4,725,966 people) found to be infected.

---------------------------------

[mattyman]

Goodness, Japan is doing a lot better than the UK in terms of total numbers of covid-related deaths. In the UK it's well over 60,000.

NOTE; in the UK people get registered as a covid death if they die within 28 days of a positive test. I don't know what the situation is in Japan.

Here's something interesting

40 % of them had no symptoms at all, but nevertheless they tested positive.

Out of these 40 %
about 70 % got covid-19 symptoms within 14 days
about 30 % had no symptoms at all and tested later on negative.

So in other words 70% of those people are pre-symptomatic. Symptoms can develop anywhere between 2 and 14 days of being infected. The average is around 5 days.

Another thing to clarify re

age and percentage of death, no known medical issues

80+ 11.6 %
70+ 6.3 %
60+1.5 %
50+ 0.4 %
30+ 0.1 %

Assuming are these the percentages out of all covid-related deaths for non-vulnerable segments by age bracket.

When you consider that covid 19 has an infection fatality rate for covid 19 is estimated to be approximately 0.5% including all age groups and the clinically-vulnerable. If say 1.5% of the deaths are non-vulnerable people in their 60's, 0.4% of the deaths are non-vulnerable people in their 50's the infection fatality rate for these groups would be 1.5% of 0.5 for the 60's and 0.4% of 0.5 for the 50's & so on. It strikes me that the risk of dying for healthy under 70's cohorts is bugger all.

[Cornfed]

It turns out that the virus probably doesn't even exist. The bad guys are just calling ordinary colds and flu covid19.

https://www.bitchute.com/video/9IbspR8lpNR9/

[mattyman]

@ cornfed

The virus does exist alright but is of sod-all threat to healthy people under 70. The disease is genuinely hazardous to people over 70, people over 70 with the risk factors mentioned in the linked article.

Now that the flu is pretty much non-existent, it does raise the question of whether flu cases have been included in covid statistics. In the UK, people who've died within 28 days of a positive test are recorded as died of covid regardless of what the cause of death was; cancer, heart attack, alzheimers, even being hit by a bus. This gives me grounds to be suspicious that ordinary seasonal flu hospitalisations are being labelled as covid.

[Cornfed]

The virus does exist alright but is of sod-all threat to healthy people under 70.

How do you know it exists? Where has it been isolated?

[SilverEnergy]

It turns out that the virus probably doesn't even exist. The bad guys are just calling ordinary colds and flu covid19.

https://www.bitchute.com/video/9IbspR8lpNR9/

There is something wrong with you. Of course covid 19 exists. It's ridiculous how you don't take this seriously.

[SilverEnergy]

@ cornfed

The virus does exist alright but is of sod-all threat to healthy people under 70. The disease is genuinely hazardous to people over 70, people over 70 with the risk factors mentioned in the linked article.

Now that the flu is pretty much non-existent, it does raise the question of whether flu cases have been included in covid statistics. In the UK, people who've died within 28 days of a positive test are recorded as died of covid regardless of what the cause of death was; cancer, heart attack, alzheimers, even being hit by a bus. This gives me grounds to be suspicious that ordinary seasonal flu hospitalisations are being labelled as covid.

Cornfed doubts the virus exists and says that masks are useless. My niece had covid 19 but she recovered.