Countries that must be avoided.

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Yohan
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Re: Countries that must be avoided.

Post by Yohan »

Mercury wrote:
September 1st, 2019, 6:51 pm
There are countries that people, guys especially, can easily go and check out without fear of violence and/or restrictions on freedom once there.
I wonder why Japan is not on this list.


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flowerthief00
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Re: Countries that must be avoided.

Post by flowerthief00 »

Yohan wrote:
September 1st, 2019, 6:17 am
These so-called free countries you mention have other problems, they are not really so free - especially for men. These are strongly pro-feminist countries with serious dating issues. This is the reason why this forum exists.

About Thailand, I have my second home there since many years and if you are a foreigner, have proper travel documents and keep yourself away from political disputes you are perfectly fine.
Certainly there are different ways we could measure what it means to be free, or which freedoms are most important.

We could say that USA scores low on alcoholic freedom, since you can't walk around in public with an open can of beer like you can anywhere else, and the age at which you can legally drink is high. Most people wouldn't consider that freedom as important as, say freedom of speech or freedom of assembly.

I suppose we could say that the USA scores low on freedom from serious dating issues for men. Whereas a country where women have no rights and consent is not regulated (rape is is not a crime) would score high. Even were we to pretend this was a reasonable measure of freedom I somehow doubt such a country would be a paradise even for men.

Usually when we talk about freedom we are thinking of some specific fundamental freedoms found in liberal democracies. Freedom House is an organization that does analysis of freedom around the world according to such standards, annually publishing a detailed report on every country. Here are some quoted excerpts from last year's report on Thailand:

  • Thailand is currently ruled by an unelected junta aligned with the country’s monarchy and economic elites. Citizens are excluded from meaningful political participation.
  • Since political rights are broadly denied to residents, women and members of minority groups are generally unable to choose their representatives or organize independently to assert their interests in the political sphere.
  • The policies of the Thai government are determined by the unelected prime minister and his appointed government, the NCPO. The new constitution does not annul any of the repressive laws and policies passed by the junta since 2014, including those that were granted by Article 44 of the interim charter. The provision gives the head of the NCPO unchecked powers, including the ability to override existing legislation and issue new laws at will.
  • The National Anti-Corruption Commission (NACC) receives a high number of complaints each year, and the NCPO has passed vague anticorruption laws. However, while coup leaders cited corruption as one justification for the overthrow of the previous government, the current regime has engaged in corruption, cronyism, and nepotism. Corrupt high-level officials have acted with impunity in recent years.
  • The NCPO largely operates without openness and transparency. High-level decisions are generally made, and the drafting of legislation carried out, with near-total opacity and no public consultation.
  • Since taking power in 2014, the NCPO has systematically used censorship, intimidation, and legal action to suppress independent media. Journalists have been detained without charge and questioned by the NCPO in military camps, in an intimidation tactic known as an “attitude adjustment.”
  • Academic freedom is constrained under the NCPO. University discussions and seminars on topics regarded as politically sensitive are subject to monitoring or outright cancellation by government authorities.
  • Security forces have enforced stringent surveillance on people viewed as critical of the NCPO, including surveillance of online activities.
  • Prohibitions on political gatherings of five or more people continued to be enforced in 2018. What constitutes a political gathering is at the discretion of the authorities. Those who engage in symbolic actions or public protests advocating for democracy and human rights risk a spectrum of consequences, including fines, arrest, and being subject to political reeducation.
  • Restrictions implemented by the NCPO severely undermine due process rights.
  • While most of the country is free from terrorism or insurgencies, a combination of martial law and emergency rule has been in effect for over a decade in the four southernmost provinces... Counterinsurgency operations have involved the indiscriminate detention of thousands of suspected militants and sympathizers, and there are long-standing and credible reports of torture and other human rights violations, including extrajudicial killings, by both government forces and insurgents.
  • Land and environmental activists risk serious and even deadly violence; the environmental rights group Global Witness has described Thailand as among the most dangerous countries in Asia for such activists to operate.
  • In Thailand’s north, so-called hill tribes are not fully integrated into society. Many lack formal citizenship, which renders them ineligible to vote, own land, attend state schools, or receive protection under labor laws.
  • Exploitation and trafficking of migrant workers (estimated between four and five million) and refugees from Myanmar, Cambodia, and Laos are serious and ongoing problems, as are child and sweatshop labor. Sex trafficking remains a problem in which some state officials are complicit.

They gave Thailand a score of 30% free. For comparison, they gave the USA a score of 86% free, which is noticeably lower than several other countries, lest you think the USA is receiving preferential treatment.

I love Thailand as much as anyone else -- it has great food, great sightseeing, and cheap everything -- but this country is not anywhere near what we would call "free" by liberal standards.

(and the dating scene is not great either, I'd say; imo the behavior of women in Thailand resembles the behavior of women in America more than any other place in Asia)

I mean, "keep yourself away from political disputes and you are perfectly fine" is not much of a bar. That could be said of almost any country anywhere in the world. That could be said of Oceania from Orwell's 1984.
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Cornfed
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Re: Countries that must be avoided.

Post by Cornfed »

flowerthief00 wrote:
September 1st, 2019, 9:38 pm
Usually when we talk about freedom we are thinking of some specific fundamental freedoms found in liberal democracies.
Which would generally be the freedom to be some kind of degenerate POS, as opposed to being normal and living in a normal, healthy community, which is strictly prohibited.
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Yohan
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Re: Countries that must be avoided.

Post by Yohan »

flowerthief00 wrote:
September 1st, 2019, 9:38 pm

Usually when we talk about freedom we are thinking of some specific fundamental freedoms found in liberal democracies. Freedom House is an organization that does analysis of freedom around the world according to such standards, annually publishing a detailed report on every country. Here are some quoted excerpts from last year's report on Thailand:

Most of these freedom standards do not make my life in Thailand better or worse, and about the Thai people, I have seen many other countries which might be free, but very poor. Philippines comes to my mind which got a far better score than Thailand.

Thai people have the right to move on to abroad if they like to move away, a Thai passport is no problem at all, and openly said, the military government is doing a good job.

Under its rule Thailand became very stable and safe and productive during the last years. All is functioning fairly good there.

Might be that some politicians, corrupt businessmen, but also foreign illegals and criminals etc. feel oppressed now, but honestly I don't care.

About internet censorship, Thailand is much more tolerant than China - almost all websites are operating normally, only some well-known porn-sites and some websites complaining about the monarchy and military are banned...millions of tourists are visiting Thailand every year and do not report any problem.

This thread is about 'countries you should avoid' - I see no reason why I should avoid Thailand....
Interesting also that Singapore has a better score than Thailand, and I wonder why. I avoid to visit this little island-state since many years.
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E Irizarry R&B Singer
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Re: Countries that must be avoided.

Post by E Irizarry R&B Singer »

Mercury wrote:
September 1st, 2019, 6:26 pm
Wolfeye wrote:
August 30th, 2019, 7:58 pm
Why is Russia on the list? Also, it seems that Colombia & Cuba are places where a lot of people went & it was good. Did something change with that?
Cuba is a dictatorship, and Colombia has a lot of violent drug/cocaine cartels which spread a lot of violent crime all over the country. Russia is also a possible dictatorship, and there are rumors that Russia's suspected dictator may have rigged the 2016 election in America so that Donald Trump won by cheating. And Trump is the absolute worst president in American history. Worse than even George W. Bush. Also, Russian winters are demonicly frigid and cold! If you think Canadian winters are horrible, Russian winters are worse.
Deaddie Mercury, guy, what are you talking about? I had taken a bus from the Ecuadorian-Colombian south border up to Manizales, Colombia, and let me tell you: those "poppie" fields were paid by the US government to burn to the 9th circle of hell, and they are still like that!!! All burnt up!
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Neo
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Re: Countries that must be avoided.

Post by Neo »

Colombia has some of the most beautiful women in the world there, even rivaling European women, in my humble opinion. Unless it turns into Afghanistan or Venezuela, I will keep it on my list.

Probably the only real places to avoid, for me personally, are Islamic dominated countries and China.
Prudence is the knowledge of things to be sought, and those to be shunned.
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flowerthief00
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Re: Countries that must be avoided.

Post by flowerthief00 »

Yohan wrote:
September 2nd, 2019, 6:16 am
Most of these freedom standards do not make my life in Thailand better or worse...
I'm dumbfounded that after all that you can say that "all is functioning fairly good there". I think we can agree that you don't value liberal freedom highly.

Well my comments were not to take a position on what countries to avoid. We have to decide for ourselves what our values are. I would only warn that if freedom isn't one of your highest values, including the lack of it around you even when it doesn't seem to affect you personally, some day you might find yourself without it....

As for Singapore, one thing that helps is that you can vote there, albeit with significant limitations.
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Yohan
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Re: Countries that must be avoided.

Post by Yohan »

flowerthief00 wrote:
September 3rd, 2019, 12:41 pm
Yohan wrote:
September 2nd, 2019, 6:16 am
Most of these freedom standards do not make my life in Thailand better or worse...
I'm dumbfounded that after all that you can say that "all is functioning fairly good there". I think we can agree that you don't value liberal freedom highly.
It cannot denied that Thailand is functioning very well under military control - just look up the history of this country...

Plenty of people enter and leave Thailand every day and what kind of problems regarding freedom are they facing?

Industrial output and tourism brings in a lot of money and the living standard for Thai people is for sure better than in most nearby countries of Myanmar, Laos and Cambodia, not to talk about BanglaDesh, Philippines ...

Nowadays every Thai citizen can apply for a passport and leave the country, no restrictions - every foreigner if he shows up with some money can enter Thailand, so I fail to see much restrictions of freedom for most people...

The only ones with 'freedom problems' might be some politicians, some businessmen, journalists, criminals (local and foreign)....

And about the dating scene, if you think Thailand is not that nice anymore, then please visit my own native country in EU...you will be surprised...


https://news.yahoo.com/bangkok-tops-par ... 22110.html
BANGKOK, Sept 4 (Reuters) - Thailand's capital, Bangkok, edged out Paris and London as the world's most popular city to visit, according to a survey released on Wednesday, welcome news for Thailand after worries over a drop in foreign arrivals.

Bangkok was named the most-visited city for the fourth consecutive year, with about 22.8 million visitors reported in the annual rankings by MasterCard Inc.

Paris and London were ranked second and third, each with about 19.1 million arrivals, trailed by Dubai with 15.9 million.

Other Southeast Asian cities, Singapore and Kuala Lumpur were fourth and fifth in the rankings, based on third-party research, proprietary analysis and public data across 200 destination cities.

New York, Istanbul, Tokyo and Antalya, Turkey, rounded out the top 10.

The number of international visitors across the 200 cities grew by 76% in the last 10 years.

Despite Bangkok's longtime reign atop the list, the Thai tourism industry has faced headwinds, with arrivals dropping 1.03% year-on-year in May before recovering to grow 0.89% in June from a year earlier.

Tourism accounts for about 12% of Thailand's economy.

However, weaker Chinese economic growth and a boat accident last year led to a drop off in Chinese arrivals in Thailand in the first half of this year.

The downturn in the number of visitors from China was partially offset by Indian arrivals.

Thailand expects to welcome 2 million Indian tourists in 2019, the governor of the Tourism Authority of Thailand, Yuthasak Supasorn, told Reuters, adding this was one year earlier than its target.

In August, the government extended a waiver of a 2,000 baht ($65) fee for visa-on-arrivals for tourists from 18 countries including those from China and India.

A growing middle class and increasing wealth in populations and the rise of low-cost airlines will make travel more accessible, Minor Hotels Chief Executive, Dilip Rajakrier, said in an email.

"Given only less than 10% of the China's total population having passports today. The potential of the Chinese market will never fade," he said. ($1 = 30.6000 baht)
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flowerthief00
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Re: Countries that must be avoided.

Post by flowerthief00 »

Yohan wrote:
September 4th, 2019, 8:32 am
The only ones with 'freedom problems' might be some politicians, some businessmen, journalists, criminals (local and foreign)....
Not true! We were talking about liberal freedoms. The right to vote, the right to assemble, the right to free speech, freedom of the press, transparency in government, due process of law, civil liberties to protect minorities, etc. Thailand is objectively unfree in these critical areas.

With authoritarian states like these you have to take them completely "as is" because you have no recourse to affect change whatsoever. If the law isn't just, what are you gonna do? Write your congressman? Lol. Get together a bunch of like-minded people and lobby? No. Can't do anything of the sort lest you become a criminal yourself. Which dilutes, it must be noted, the very practical value of the the word "criminal", when speaking about Thailand.

Yes, of course Thailand is a popular place to visit. Yes it is possible to get in and out of Thailand. The country received a respectable score in that particular area. That point isn't in dispute.

I will say only one thing about Thai passports. In practice it may not be so easy for natives to leave Thailand due to other governments not respecting the Thai passport the way they respect, for example, a US passport. A Thai woman who had been trying to go abroad was telling me about that. But if true, this isn't the direct fault of the Thai government....
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Yohan
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Re: Countries that must be avoided.

Post by Yohan »

flowerthief00 wrote:
September 5th, 2019, 2:01 pm

Yes, of course Thailand is a popular place to visit. Yes it is possible to get in and out of Thailand. The country received a respectable score in that particular area. That point isn't in dispute.

I will say only one thing about Thai passports. In practice it may not be so easy for natives to leave Thailand due to other governments not respecting the Thai passport the way they respect, for example, a US passport. A Thai woman who had been trying to go abroad was telling me about that. But if true, this isn't the direct fault of the Thai government....
Yes, Thailand will continue to be a popular place until it's getting crazy again and the military will interfere again to correct a rather disturbing chaotic situation... There is nothing new with that, Thailand is not and was never politically stable. However it is not communist-friendly and there is no danger that radical islamists have any chance to get into political powerful positions.

About Thai passports, it's not that bad either, 80 countries are either visafree or visa on arrival for Thai passport holders... all ASEAN countries including Japan and South Korea...
We were talking about liberal freedoms. The right to vote, the right to assemble, the right to free speech, freedom of the press, transparency in government, due process of law, civil liberties to protect minorities, etc. Thailand is objectively unfree in these critical areas.
I don't really care about such kind of rights - I am a foreigner living since more than 40 years in Japan, I have no voting rights, not right to demonstrate, the legal situation depends on your wallet like in USA, nobody cares here about minorities..... You can say that about almost all countries in Asia...
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flowerthief00
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Re: Countries that must be avoided.

Post by flowerthief00 »

Japan is the freest country in Asia. Freedom House gave it a very high score, higher than the score it gave the USA. For those wishing to get away from the West while still being in a place with liberal freedoms, Japan is a very logical choice.

The work culture in Japan is crushing, however. Pay is not that great relative to living expenses considering the long hours you'll be working.
MatureDJ
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Re: Countries that must be avoided.

Post by MatureDJ »

Why Russia?
HappyGuy

Re: Countries that must be avoided.

Post by HappyGuy »

flowerthief00 wrote:
September 9th, 2019, 4:46 pm
The work culture in Japan is crushing, however. Pay is not that great relative to living expenses considering the long hours you'll be working.
2015: Residents living permanently in Japan's cyber-cafés - Lost in Manboo :shock:

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Yohan
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Re: Countries that must be avoided.

Post by Yohan »

HappyGuy wrote:
May 30th, 2020, 7:21 pm
flowerthief00 wrote:
September 9th, 2019, 4:46 pm
The work culture in Japan is crushing, however. Pay is not that great relative to living expenses considering the long hours you'll be working.
2015: Residents living permanently in Japan's cyber-cafés - Lost in Manboo :shock:
Cyber cafes are now closed in many cities, Corona Virus...

About these people using them for sleeping, they have to pay for it, their use is not free of charge and if you consider how much they have to pay, you can rent a small room per month for that money too.

No idea, why they prefer to live in a 24h internet shop - but you have everywhere a number of outsiders, not only in Japan.

If you ask me these people are just lazy, no common sense, unwilling to work any regular job. Even unwilling to settle down and keep a permanent address.
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Re: Countries that must be avoided.

Post by Taco »

flowerthief00 wrote:
September 1st, 2019, 9:38 pm
Yohan wrote:
September 1st, 2019, 6:17 am
These so-called free countries you mention have other problems, they are not really so free - especially for men. These are strongly pro-feminist countries with serious dating issues. This is the reason why this forum exists.

About Thailand, I have my second home there since many years and if you are a foreigner, have proper travel documents and keep yourself away from political disputes you are perfectly fine.


The dating scene is not great either, I'd say; imo the behavior of women in Thailand resembles the behavior of women in America more than any other place in Asia
Lots of horror stories about Thai women. All of them are true...
Paranoia is just having the right information. - William S. Burroughs
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