Traveling around Taiwan for the past 2 weeks

[statnerd]

I've been looking around Taiwan for the past couple of weeks, partly for vacation and partly checking it out for a potential TEFL destination, and overall I've been impressed. Total strangers have helped me out just about everywhere. At bus stops, people will ask me where I'm going and make sure that I'm getting on the right bus. I walked up to a locker by a train station once and a lady came up and showed me how to use it, then made change for my $50 coin as the machine only took $10 coins. Even while riding a train, someone looked at my ticket and reminded me when I was supposed to get off.

That said, I've found the food to not be that great. Sure, they have noodle soups, but they don't have the flavor that I've gotten other places. Besides the noodle soups, a lot of the food is fried, greasy, and unhealthy. There are a lot of sweet, sugary drinks as well such as bubble tea. The food isn't horrible and certainly isn't bland and gross like American food, but it is nowhere near as good as the food that I had in Penang, Malaysia. I loved everything that I ate in Penang.

The people in Taiwan are polite for the most part, but they aren't uptight about rules and noise in public like the Japanese are. People talk on trains, although not loudly. The streets are noisy with motor scooters everywhere and are more chaotic. I also never have had to take off my shoes anywhere in Taiwan.

Service has been mixed. It isn't bad, but the best service I've received anywhere was in Japan. In Taiwan, the service people working in restaurants and hotels don't smile constantly and pamper you like they do in Japan. In Taiwan, I'd say about 2/3 of the time, after saying "xie xie" after receiving service, I've gotten a "xie," "xie xie," "thank you," and/or "bye" in response. The other 1/3 of the time, I haven't gotten any kind of response. There was one bad service experience that really stood out. This one waiter who looked like he was in his 20s stared at me the whole time I was eating and started smirking at me. I was polite to him, so I have no idea what his problem was. On the other hand, there was one stand I went to for breakfast a few times and the lady working there smiled and seemed happy when I returned. Then there was another place I went to where the person working there didn't speak English, but I pointed at what I wanted and we were able to communicate okay with hand gestures. She smiled and seemed happy that I bought some food from her.

As far as scenery goes, Taroko Gorge and Sun Moon Lake are beautiful, as well as the eastern and southern coastlines. Taiwan does have a great variety of things to see and do - there are mountains, forests, hot springs, beaches, and big cities that kind of run together (i.e. most of the western side of the island).

Overall, I've enjoyed visiting Taiwan.

[Winston]

Thanks for your interesting trip report. Its fascinating to hear first impressions of Taiwan from a newcomer.

Are you white? If so then you may get some extra hospitality treatment there. But not if you're Asian. What did you find out about the TEFL opportunities? I heard they were great before but not so now. A lot of English teachers have left Taiwan. How many did you see still around? Did you visit any schools?

Yes the Taiwanese can be polite and helpful to tourists. But as you said, that's politeness, not "friendliness" or "friendship". There's a difference between the two of course, but Taiwanese often assume they are both the same. To me friendliness means one is interested in making friends or socializing. I don't see that in Taiwan at all. It's like the US in that no one wants to hang out and it feels awkward and inappropriate to try to get closer to people because like in the US you are expected to keep your distance and mind your own business. Did anyone try to be your friend, or exchange numbers with you or invite you to go out or visit their home, like in many good HA destinations? If not, then one cannot classify Taiwan as "friendly" like so many travel and expat sites wrongly do, in my view.

Also, didn't you notice that most foreigners were either with other foreigners, or alone, or in a group of mostly foreign members? Not hanging out with local mainstream Taiwanese people? That speaks volumes too. It means that Taiwanese and foreigners have a polite relationship only, but not a truly social one. There's simply no true connection with them.

Plus they are very bland and difficult to connect with, even if you speak Chinese. Their whole communication style is different. And it feels scary too because so many people have this super serious, uptight facial expression that makes me feel uncomfortable. It's part of basic TW nature it seems. I've never connected with people who are too reserved.

But even if you go to a party or social gathering or meet up in Taiwan, it's still super boring, because TW culture requires everyone to act super polite and square and bland and to never say anything controversial. It makes TW super safe, but also super sterile and bland. There's no energy there at all. It's like there's something missing there. There's no friction or chemistry or energy to rub off of. You know what I mean? It just feels too overly sterile to the point of being super bland. I know for a newcomer, TW may seem a bit exotic and interesting, but to someone who has been there many times since childhood, I find it super boring.

The girls aren't even approachable. When you see a hot girl, most of the time, she ignores you and walks by as though she doesn't acknowledge your existence. It's very frustrating, they are all look but no touch. Because TW girls are super cliquish there, and don't talk to strangers without a proper introduction. But even with a proper introduction there's nothing to talk about because their personality is nonexistent and super bland. Either way, you lose. I don't see how people connect or hook up or get married in Taiwan. I must be on a totally different wavelength, my cousin tells me.

But if you or anyone looks and observes all around you in Taiwan, I'm sure you can see what I mean right?

Regardless, the vibe always feels weird and awkward to me. Never normal. That's what I hate the most. I don't mind not getting dates or having friends, as long as the vibe feels good or positive or ok. What I hate the most is when the vibe always feels awkward and off and unnatural. You guys know what I mean? The US is like that too, beautiful nature and scenery but awkward social vibe.

I disagree about the food. TW food is considered top notch in Asia. The Taiwanese live for food, it's their only passion besides making money. It is the only thing TW has going for it. However TW is not very cosmopolitan and does not have the variety of food that Thailand or Cambodia has. Especially when it comes to Mexican or Indian food.

Just out of curiosity, what kind of vibe do you feel there?

Yes I'm glad you mentioned that some people are cold and rude there in TW too. So not everyone is polite. Some are just grouchy and have a bad attitude and give you the cold shoulder, even if they are working in customer service. There are a lot of unhappy grouchy people in TW too. It shows on their face and vibe, if you've noticed. Especially down south. So I don't get why some people like Rock, who treat like Taiwan like a religious cult, have trouble admitting that anyone in Taiwan is rude.

Anyway, I'm at my parents house now in Taiwan. If you ever come near Chiayi or central Taiwan, let me know or PM me.

[Winston]

Another thing about Taiwan is that early on you notice one pattern: Only elderly and older people there are comfortable talking to strangers and open about it. The young people are not. They act like they're still in high school and unaccustomed to talking to strangers. Especially young women and girls. They are super cliquish, just like Asian American girls are. This is similar to America, where elderly and older people are much more open to talking to strangers too.

So this means that yes, Taiwan is super cliquish, like high school. And like all Oriental countries, freethinkers and nonconformists and eccentrics will not be treated well. They will be forgiven more if they are white, but definitely not if they are asian. Thus countries like Taiwan are the worst if you are eccentric or misfit or freethinking or a freespirit or a beatnik type. The existence of such types is not even acknowledged.

People in Taiwan as you noticed as super reserved. No one is going to be super gregarious toward strangers.

One thing I noticed about Asia and Taiwan is that the word "conservative" doesn't just mean to have traditional family values like it does in the West, it also refers to people who do not talk to strangers unless properly introduced, which is kind of odd. So when Taiwanese use the term "conservative" it also refers to people who don't talk to strangers. Not just to people with traditional family values and Christian morals. That's kind of odd.

In contrast, conservative people in the west tend to be friendly and not afraid to talk to strangers. Families that are the ideal icons for American conservatives, such as The Waltons and The Engels from Little House on the Prairie, have always been friendly and helpful with strangers and easy to befriend as long as you are nice and good folks.

Btw, try this. Try shaking a Taiwanese female's hand. You will see how awkward it is. In Taiwan, only close friends or close relatives will shake hands. You don't shake hands with a stranger. And Taiwanese females hate it the most. If they have to shake your hand, they will give you this super weak cold fish handshake, as if they are scared and reluctant to touch your hand. Only Americanized Asian women will shake your hand with confidence and firmness. The typical local Taiwanese will never, because they are very weak deep down with no confidence and no individuality. Shaking their hand will feel super awkward, as with everything in Taiwan. In fact, AWKWARDNESS is how I feel about Taiwan all around in general.

[flowerthief00]

The girls aren't even approachable. When you see a hot girl, most of the time, she ignores you and walks by as though she doesn't acknowledge your existence. It's very frustrating, they are all look but no touch. Because TW girls are super cliquish there, and don't talk to strangers without a proper introduction.

Ain't that how it is everywhere?

[Winston]

The girls aren't even approachable. When you see a hot girl, most of the time, she ignores you and walks by as though she doesn't acknowledge your existence. It's very frustrating, they are all look but no touch. Because TW girls are super cliquish there, and don't talk to strangers without a proper introduction.

Ain't that how it is everywhere?

Not at all. In Russia and Eastern Europe you are allowed to approach hot girls or cute girls that you see. Same in Philippines and to some extent in Thailand and Indonesia too. The girls in Vietnam are also open and approachable i hear. So are Colombia and Brazil. So no its not the same everywhere. Travel more and you will see. Different countries are like different matrixes.

Didn't you say you were in Vietnam now? If so then you should know what I mean. Everyone says Vietnam girls are pretty approachable and easy to chat up too. They aren't guarded or paranoid about talking to strangers.

[Winston]

flowerthief00,
Let me give an example of an important difference. You see, I don't mind if girls reject me from cold approach, as long as there's no awkward feeling about it. For example, in Warsaw, Poland, the girls are also very reserved. But they don't act cliquish and catty and immature and high schoolish and narrow minded like Taiwanese girls do. No, they are quite mature, down to earth, confident, and non-paranoid - a lot more normal in other words. If I approach them, they simply politely reject me, or they will talk to me a while but will not give me their number. Yet there's no feeling of awkwardness. It doesn't make me feel like a creep who is doing something wrong or violating some social rule when I cold approach girls in Warsaw. But in Taiwan there is a strong feeling of awkwardness in almost everything I do. Like I am not allowed to be myself. Not just about flirting or cold approach. And yes when I flirt or cold approach in Taiwan it feels awkward and wrong and inappropriate, like I am doing something wrong or breaking some social rule. If I was white, the social rules wouldn't apply to me as much, but if you're Asian they do. It's similar to America where if you try to cold approach it also feels awkward and inappropriate and creepy. Yes girls will even report you to security or police for doing that, and claim that you are "harassing them".

So you see, that's the MAIN difference. It's not about being able to get dates. It's the fact that even TRYING to get dates or cold approaching in Taiwan simply feels wrong, creepy and inappropriate, just like it does in the US. It has nothing to do with confidence. You can be the most confident guy in the world. The girls will still see cold approach or flirtation as creepy and inappropriate and out of bounds. Because that is their culture. In Taiwan, strangers do not even shake hands. Only close friends or close relatives do. So flirtation with strangers is a definite no no. It's a very prudish culture for sure.

So you see, I don't mind not being able to get dates as long as the act of trying to does NOT feel awkward or inappropriate or creepy. That's my main point. Do you see what I mean? I hate it most when I am not even allowed to try or not allowed to be myself. It's the awkward creepy vibe that's the worst thing, because it basically tells me that I'm not even able to be myself. You see what I mean? Even in Philippines and Russia many girls you approach will politely reject you, but it never makes you feel like a creep or inappropriate. It just feels like part of the game, like when your character dies in a video game, and you simply just restart the game and try again, which is no big deal and feels normal. You see, that's the key difference between being rejected overseas vs at home in the US or Taiwan. At least overseas you are ALLOWED to try and you are still always IN THE GAME, no matter how many girls reject you, whereas back home you are not even allowed to try lest you be seen as a creep and pervert. You see what I mean? That's the fundamental difference, and what matters most to me.

I'm sure @Falcon and @zboy1 would agree and understand what I mean. They felt the same way about Taiwan too.

[flowerthief00]

@Winston
Hmm. I can understand why that would be important, but I dunno. Personally, I kind of get the same vibe from Asians no matter which Asian country I'm in. (I have traveled to several, ya know) Could it not be that this is a trait dependent more on the size of the city than on which country that city is in? In big cities people are more standoffish so it will always be tough.

I've approached women in the shopping malls of Tokyo, Bangkok, Manila, Ho Chi Minh City, Honolulu, to name a few. Basically all big cities, and basically the game always feels more or less the same. If anything, I get the best results in Honolulu, the smallest of the above-mentioned cities.

As for Vietnam, well right now with everyone wearing face masks in public it just doesn't feel like the right time to be approaching strangers. (tho that hasn't stopped me completely)

To me, approaching in the US OR Asia OR anywhere is viable only if and when you are able to do so smoothly and nonchalantly. Otherwise it comes across as awkward and creepy anywhere.

Something I learned from repeated interactions with Japanese, whose culture is very indirect, is that the way you approach matters more than whatever words you actually say. In Japan they are very conscious of behavioral expectation in public. Directly stopping someone walking towards you on the street feels wrong and awkward, while talking to someone standing next to you on a train with everyone watching on feels even more awkward. But making a casual remark to someone sitting on the bench next to you waiting for the train, for instance, is a more indirect way of fishing for an interaction. If you don't get a positive response you just let it go and all is forgotten. No one is watching what two people sitting on a bench are saying to each other so it's not creepy. So if that's possible in Japan then it must be possible anywhere.

But indirect approach, by its nature, is not something you can force a quota for, so forget about the things PUA coaches say about doing 100 approaches a day and such unrealistic nonsense. Just have the mindset to take advantage of a good opportunity when it comes along. That's my take on it.

[Winston]

@flowerthief00
Yes it's true that in Asia in general, it is inappropriate to approach a girl you don't know out in public. However, the difference is that in some Asian countries that are more laid back, like Philippines or Cambodia, girls aren't as creeped out by it. They aren't as negative or judgmental or prone to quickly label someone as a "creep or pervert" or get paranoid. In Cambodia the girls seem very harmonious and humble and do not struggle against reality. So they take it in stride, like an adept Buddhist practitioner. But with Chinese or Taiwanese, they are different, they are quick to label and judge and get angry for something they don't like. They are quick to think negative and condemn some guy they don't like.

Especially Taiwanese women. They have a peculiar penchant for disliking others and finding something wrong with you, even if you do or say nothing bad or wrong. Of course, like most, they are blind to their own faults and think the problem is always with someone else, when everyone else can see it is they who have a problem with their misanthropic attitude and propensity to disdain others for no reason other than their petty shallow negative mindset. Yet they are delusional and think there is something wrong with everyone else. I hate that. Falcon and zboy1 and Henry King have noticed this about Taiwanese women too, not just me. Henry King is not on this forum, but he's a Chinese American guy in our FB group who used to live in Taiwan and shares my exact same feelings and observations about Taiwanese people.

Taiwanese are especially different from other Asians in that they have this self-hating nature which you can see on their face and in their basic personality and vibe. It's an integral basic part of Taiwanese character. So I don't get why men like Rock who have been in Taiwan for decades, never admit to seeing it, since it's everywhere. Maybe they are blind to it for some reason. But Asians can see it easily. Very odd. Regardless, their self-hating nature makes them weird and uncomfortable to be around. Something about it creeps me out and feels weird. Especially since I don't have that self-hating nature myself. Not having it is good, it is what differentiates a westerner from a Taiwanese.

So you see, not all Asians are the same. Japanese may be very reserved and strict about social rules, like Taiwanese are, but they don't have that angry, grouchy, pissed off look that many Taiwanese do either. Not all Asians get creeped out easily or are quick to judge. Not all Asian girls are as hateful as Taiwanese or Chinese, fortunately. For example, Indonesian girls, Cambodian girls, Filipino girls, are relaxed and do not judge or analyze. They are too simple and laid back. So even if you do something inappropriate, they don't condemn or judge quickly. They accept what is, not expect everything to be a certain way, kind of like a Buddhist is supposed to do. They go with the flow and do not judge. So flirting with them doesn't feel taboo, creepy or inappropriate.

I think you are judging Asians mostly by NE Asians, or orientals.

Do you see what I mean?

However, there is a way around the inappropriateness of cold approach. Just act innocent and pretend to be a lost tourist. Then approach girls for directions. While they are giving you directions or answering some basic questions from a "lost tourist", you then take the chance to ask other open ended questions or make small talk. Like you said, if they seem not interested, then move on. But if they seem friendly and open to talking more, then you can take that chance to slowly warm up and get more social with them. While you do so, you can gauge their vibes and try to build some kino or whatever. Then when they have to leave at some point, you can ask them for their email or FB or whatever before they leave. Nowadays, many Asian girls will give you their FB or Line contact, not their direct mobile number, because it's a polite way of distancing themselves from you and not giving out private info to you, yet allowing some contact at the same time. So while many Asian girls won't give their direct phone number, they are likely to at least give you a FB or Line contact for you to add. After that, they may not talk to you much or may ignore your messages online. Depends on whether they are interested or not. But it's better than nothing. A lot of guys such as me and Rock have used this approach to get around the inappropriateness of cold approach. Anyone can pretend to be a lost tourist needing some directions. It looks innocent and normal.

You said in Japan it looks bad to talk to a girl on the train. However, if you pretend to be a lost tourist asking for directions and pulling out a map or guidebook, then it will look more normal and acceptable. That's what I do.

Most Asian girls you just meet won't go to coffee with you. But some in the big city will because they are more confident. And in Europe especially the women are more willing to go to coffee with a stranger they just met because they have a lot more confidence and are more rational and not paranoid.

Also remember that in China I've gotten a lot of numbers and wechats from cold approach. Some in Taiwan too, although they don't usually go anywhere. In China most of those girls do not end up going out with me, but a few might, because China has a variety of women and is not as homogenous as Taiwan. There are outgoing mature women in China who do not fear strangers and have confidence too. In China there are all types so you are bound to meet some friendly girls if you are there and approach girls a lot. I meet maybe 3 or 4 girls a week in China, which is nowhere near as much as in Russia but a lot more than in Taiwan or America. It's all relative. Plus you can use dating sites too.

One more thing. In China even though flirting with a stranger is inappropriate, even when I do it, it doesn't rile them up or shake their boat or make them panic as if I've violated some boundary and infringed on their space. But in Taiwan and America if you cold approach it will rile some women up as if you've violated their space. China women are more thick skinned and confident and do not get riled up as easily.

So you see, not all Asians are the same. You see what I mean? Sorry this is so long.

[Winston]

So basically what I meant to say is that yes, Asians do have some commonalities in general. For example:

1. They are humble and act with humility and modesty.
2. They have a collectivist mindset, not an individualist one. So they tend to gravitate toward groupthink and seek to copy others and be alike, not try to be unique or different. They freely admit this if you ask them.
3. They are hyper practical and see getting a stable job, career or business with a good stable income as the prime importance in life, as pretty much all that matters, even if it means being unhappy. The practical things matter the most to them. They seek stability, and believe the system must be conformed to, not resisted.
4. Asian families are more close knit than white families in general.

However, that doesn't mean all Asians react the same toward men or cold approach or flirtation.

Let me give you a case of a bad experience in Taiwan. One time in Taichung, I was waiting for a friend in a mall. I had an hour to kill so I went to the top floor to look around and took some photos of the nice restaurants there, just for fun. Later some men dressed formally started following me. They seem to be taking photos of me and starting walking everywhere I did. It was obvious they were following me. At first one asked me if I had any business here. I told him I was just shopping and looking around. Later when he wouldn't stop following me I confronted him and got pissed. When I approached he turned away and pretended to receive a call, so he could avoid me. I told him off in English anyway and told him to stop following me. They still followed me but kept their distance. Later I went downstairs to the reception and reported those men for stalking me. The receptionist girl told me that those men were following me because some girl at the top floor reported me for taking suspicious photos. She said I acted suspicious and seemed to be taking photos of her. I don't even know who that could have been. I told her to tell their boss that having those men stalk me was inappropriate and rude. She apologized and left it at that.

So you see, some overly paranoid girl thought I looked suspicious taking pictures and reported me to security. I never thought that would happen in Asia. It's never happened to me outside the US before. But I guess Taiwanese girls can have a paranoid mindset and get creeped out easily by males. Just like in the US. That's never happened to me in China, Russia or SE Asia. I've taken tons of photos of girls passing by before. If a lady in China thought I was a creep or pervert for doing that, she will usually think "That guy is a creep and pervert" and leave it at that. She won't feel the need to call security. Only a paranoid hateful mindset, like that of Taiwanese women, would think to do that. So Taiwanese women do have some things in common with American women: they both hate men and flirtation and get paranoid and creeped out easily, too easily.

Now don't get me wrong. This isn't a common occurrence in Taiwan. This only happened to me once. Most Taiwanese women would probably not have done that. I've taken lots of photos of girls in Taiwan before and that doesn't usually happen. It was simply a bad apple. But the point is, no one in the Philippines or China would do that. They don't feel the need to get security involved or report me to law enforcement for that kind of thing.

So you see, not all of Asia is the same in their attitude toward men or flirtation or taking photos. Some are more tolerant than others. Do you see my point?

@momopi what do you think? Why did that creepy incident happen to me?

[statnerd]

Thanks for the invitation to meet up, Winston, but I was short on time and spent my last few days looking around the Taipei area. Most of the people in Taiwan were polite and nice, but there isn't anywhere on Earth where every single person that you encounter will be wonderful. In addition to the weird waiter that I talked about in my first post, I saw a couple of old guys yelling at bus drivers, and there was a moron playing music and singing in the hall outside my hotel room at 3 a.m. Also, the pollution along the western side of Taiwan bothered me.

Other than that, I loved the beautiful scenery and hiking opportunities, the mainly healthy looking population (less obesity than the U.S.), the excellent public transportation, feeling safe the whole time I was there both day and night, and the hospitality I got. I am a White dude, so that may have been part of it. In the U.S., people don't generally give foreigners special hospitality.

As far as TEFL goes, I've read several places that the pay has been stagnant for decades, the jobs are short-term and unstable, and that it's hard to save money. I have a stable desk job that pays well, so TEFL is more of a job to have after retiring from my desk job. I'm not there quite yet, but maybe in 5-7 years. In the mean time, I'm just checking out different countries to see what they're like before moving abroad.

[Winston]

Thanks for the invitation to meet up, Winston, but I was short on time and spent my last few days looking around the Taipei area. Most of the people in Taiwan were polite and nice, but there isn't anywhere on Earth where every single person that you encounter will be wonderful. In addition to the weird waiter that I talked about in my first post, I saw a couple of old guys yelling at bus drivers, and there was a moron playing music and singing in the hall outside my hotel room at 3 a.m. Also, the pollution along the western side of Taiwan bothered me.

Other than that, I loved the beautiful scenery and hiking opportunities, the mainly healthy looking population (less obesity than the U.S.), the excellent public transportation, feeling safe the whole time I was there both day and night, and the hospitality I got. I am a White dude, so that may have been part of it. In the U.S., people don't generally give foreigners special hospitality.

As far as TEFL goes, I've read several places that the pay has been stagnant for decades, the jobs are short-term and unstable, and that it's hard to save money. I have a stable desk job that pays well, so TEFL is more of a job to have after retiring from my desk job. I'm not there quite yet, but maybe in 5-7 years. In the mean time, I'm just checking out different countries to see what they're like before moving abroad.

Hi statnerd. Glad you enjoyed Taiwan. But how did you enjoy the nature and outdoors? I can't even read a book outside without insects biting me and ants crawling on me, even if I sit on a bench or cement structure. That's the problem with Asia. It's infested with too many insects that you cannot truly enjoy nature like you can in the US. Too many mosquitos and fleas and even small insects you can't even see. A countless variety of them.

Also, I agree with you that about one third of Taiwanese, including customer service people who are paid to be nice, are kind of rude and abrupt and not that polite. That's a big percentage, so people should be honest about that and not pretend everyone in Taiwan is nice and polite like most travel blogs do because they are obsessed with sounding positive and politically correct. I hate that. Even Rock refuses to admit that one third of Taiwanese are rude or cold or abrupt. To some, Taiwan is like a religion, so asking them to criticize it is like asking a Christian to criticize Jesus. In their mind, their religion is flawless and cannot be criticized, no matter what, even if the criticism is true.

But even with the two thirds of Taiwanese that are nice, the problem is they are just polite and distant. They don't seem to want to be your friend. So you never feel any true social connection, camaraderie, acceptance or validation right? Did you try talking to any girls? Did you notice that they are very closed and shy and reserved? Like they put on a polite face but aren't really interested in you? It's kind of fake. I hate that. How is that any different from the US?

I don't get why Taiwan leaves a positive impression on most tourists, when it's not that different from the US in terms of being inclusive and being too cliquish? Right? I suppose the main difference is that with Taiwanese, you get the sense that they are really kind and good natured and gentle deep down in their intent, and full of shame too. You just don't get that sense in most countries. It's hard to explain. That might be why the Taiwanese tend to make a good impression on tourists.

Didn't you get the sense that the women there were like on a different wavelength and hard to connect with if not impossible? If so wouldn't that feel lonely after a while, if you can't connect with them or feel any camaraderie with them? I don't get why no one else complains about that in Taiwan, when that should be obvious and major.

Yes it's true that Taiwan is very safe, like Japan and Singapore. You can walk around anywhere at 2am or 3am and feel totally safe. However, I can lock you in a golden cage and you'd be safe too. But you'd never grow or evolve or have new experiences. That's the problem with countries that are too sterile. They become soulless and mechanical with no energy and nothing to feed your soul. Hence you cannot grow or evolve or have new and meaningful experiences.

Traditionally, Taiwan has been good for English teachers. They start you out at over 1200 dollars a month for working part time, which is not bad. ESL teachers told me it was better than Japan because even though the salary was higher in Japan, so was the cost of living there, so you could not save as much money, whereas in Taiwan you have more disposable income to save up. I don't know if that's still true today, but that was what the ESL community was saying for a long time. Still, even if it's no longer true, 1200 to 1500 for a monthly salary for working part time is very good. However, ESL teachers told me it's not as rosy as it sounds, because teachers have to spend hours a day grading homework and preparing lessons too, even though the actual teaching time is only a few hours per day.

[Winston]

Question for statnerd or any visitors or expats in Taiwan:

Do you ever feel lonely and alienated here? Or do you feel social connection? That's a more specific question than asking "Do you find Taiwan friendly?" because that's too broad and people will tend to answer yes just to be polite. I don't get how other foreigners tolerate Taiwan. Don't they ever feel lonely, alienated and disconnected too? I mean, how can you not when everyone ignores you here and treats you like you don't exist and all the women/girls NEVER ever make any eye contact with you at all, not even once?! They are stone cold, and super closed/uptight/repressed/shy/withdrawn/gutless, perhaps the most out of all the countries in the world.

Remember the city I'm in is not cosmopolitan like Taipei, so there are very few English speakers and hardly any foreigners here. It's very alienating down here, you are lucky you're not here. Unless you have a wife here or family here, you will be very alienated and lonely in southern Taiwan, because the locals seem to have zero interest in meeting new people or making new friends, no matter how extroverted or outgoing you are. I feel like a ghost here, like I don't exist, which I can't stand. You know what I mean? It's nothing like Philippines or Thailand or SE Asia. Totally different world and vibe here. It's more like Japan here than China. Super repressed and restrictive, no self-expression allowed, so you can't be yourself. Perfect example of how the social culture can take away your freedom, not the government, something Americans don't understand because to them, freedom is defined by government control and voting/democracy.

Even the couchsurfers here have no interest in meeting up, they all want to be left alone. And most of the foreigners here are withdrawn and shy too, like they are afraid to talk to anyone, as if they've become "Taiwanized" and no longer like regular normal foreigners. They are nothing like the western expats in Philippines I hang out with everyday. You know what I mean?

Plus even when you do meet people here, it's hard to connect with them, because there's almost nothing to talk about, and nothing in common, hence no chemistry or connection. The people here are on a totally different zone/wavelength. Not broad minded at all, very few or no interests, not much to say, very bland, devoid of personality and soulless. Very sad. You know what I mean? At least America has beautiful nature and landscapes and the folks in small towns are friendly. I've found that many foreigners here feel the same way, but are afraid to tell anyone about it, because to talk about feeling lonely/alienated carries a negative/loser stigma and is not politically correct either.

So you see, the problem here is twofold. It's not just about not being able to meet people and being ignored by everyone like you don't exist, it's even worse than that, because even when you do meet people here, or get introduced to people here, there's NEVER any chemistry or connection, nothing in common, etc. So how can you possibly be friends with someone here when there's nothing to talk about? Even if you have good conversation skills, the problem is there's nothing to work with, because Taiwanese women tend to be super bland, soulless and devoid of personality. Not broad minded at all, but very narrow and small minded. I've never understood how Taiwanese couples connect.

I don't know. Maybe they are just on a totally different wavelength or zone, one that is super repressed, closed, withdrawn, and impossible to connect with, no matter how extroverted or outgoing you are. Either that, or there's some kind of supernatural curse on me in Taiwan. Either that, or the movie "Invasion of the Body Snatchers" has LITERALLY happened here in Taiwan (and perhaps America too) hence everyone is alien to me and I am alien to everyone else too, because I'm one of the last real humans left with a soul whereas everyone else has been cloned and de-souled. (very scary thought)

[kangarunner]

Isn't the general consensus that not just Taiwan but East Asian countries are just weird and isolationist? Is there a good reason for why this is?

[Winston]

Isn't the general consensus that not just Taiwan but East Asian countries are just weird and isolationist? Is there a good reason for why this is?

If you value authenticity and freethinking, then yes. But the consensus tends to be politically correct, which means that all countries are said to be friendly, to say otherwise is impolite and taboo and politically incorrect.

Yes NE Asian cultures are weird, not exactly isolationist, but very cliquish, rigid and repressed. You aren't allowed to express yourself or be yourself. I don't know the reason for this, but probably it's for control, because repressing people keeps them down and gears them toward conformity. Different countries have different ways of controling the masses. NE Asia controls their people with rigid strict social culture rules and customs, which is very rigid and repressed, but not with oppressive government. For example, in Japan and Taiwan the government is very lax and doesn't bother anyone, but the social culture is very rigid and restrictive, so those countries do not feel free at all, even though their governments are lax and democratic. In the US they control the masses with super mind control and political correctness and strict laws too. No country can be free in every category. They either gotta take away your political freedom or your social freedom. There has to be some sort of control, either directly or indirectly. That's what I've noticed.

[Fredyla006]

Something I learned from repeated interactions with Japanese, whose culture is very indirect, is that the way you approach matters more than whatever words you actually say. In Japan they are very conscious of behavioral expectation in public. Directly stopping someone walking towards you on the street feels wrong and awkward, while talking to someone standing next to comparateur assurance chien you on a train with everyone watching on feels even more awkward. But making a casual remark to someone sitting on the bench next to you waiting for the train, for instance, is a more indirect way of fishing for an interaction. If you don't get a positive response you just let it go and all is forgotten. No one is watching what two people sitting on a bench are saying to each other so it's not creepy. So if that's possible in Japan then it must be possible anywhere.

But indirect approach, by its nature, is not something you can force a quota for, so forget about the things PUA coaches say about doing 100 approaches a day and such unrealistic nonsense. Just have the mindset to take advantage of a good opportunity when it comes along. That's my take on it.

Met this girl on the street when I was walking home from the bar at 2AM.