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Conspiracy Theories Are Illogical

Discuss conspiracies, mysteries and paranormal phenomena.

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Winston
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Re: Conspiracy Theories Are Illogical

Post by Winston »

Contrarian Expatriate wrote:
September 9th, 2020, 10:56 am
Winston wrote:
September 9th, 2020, 7:13 am
@Contrarian Expatriate

I posted some important paragraphs for u in the forum from the book "none dare call it conspiracy" by Gary Allen. They are guaranteed to change your mind for sure about conspiracies. Not only do the points make perfect sense but they are points that no one can argue with too. Please read all the paragraphs and think about them. Then u will realize that not only are conspiracies plausible but highly probable too. This book has enlightened many people and opened many eyes and made sense out of the chaos in the world. See here.

viewtopic.php?p=345458#p345458

Read the whole book online here:

http://www.whale.to/b/allen_b1.html

One good point that the book made was this: We all acknowledge that political conspiracies existed in the past like in ancient Rome for example. So why then are we supposed to not believe that political conspiracies exist today? Why are we programmed to laugh at them and ridicule them by the media and establishment, if anyone suggests that political conspiracies exist today? Yet we accept them existing in ancient history as self evident. Why the double standard?

That's a great question. Once u figure out the answer u will realize that we have been mind controlled and conditioned without our knowing it all along. it will open the floodgates to truth.
There you go again trying to move the goalposts to create a red herring. No one said conspiracies do not exist. The question is about conspiracy THEORIES. There is a big difference you know.

I get really skeptical when people try to change an argument mid stream to strengthen their position. It’s both dishonest and deceptive.

As I mentioned before, the Durham Investgation is focused on a conspiracy spearheaded by rogue FBI and DOJ officials. There is already one indictment that’s been handed down.

The difference is that there has been substantial EVIDENCE for this from the beginning. Fake intelligence used to justify a federal warrant against a political campaign was definitely a conspiracy.

So don’t ask me to read about how David Icke’s Reptilian people are trying to take over the central banks so that Jews can castrate white men so that the New World Order can be put into place with both Trump and Biden doing their bidding.
But don't you see the problem CE? If a conspiracy is true and exists, then the powers that be can DENY it by calling it a "conspiracy theory". They've done that with the JFK Assassination for example, which is a PROVEN conspiracy by all standards of proof. So it's MIND CONTROL and propaganda to deny all the crimes you commit and call it a "conspiracy theory".

Take a simple example. Suppose you commit a crime in secret and I catch you, and you deny it and call it a "conspiracy theory". Even though the crime is REAL, and you deny it by calling it a "theory", that doesn't mean it's an unproven theory if you did it. Anyone can LIE or DENY. Remember in X-Files the government's motto is "Deny Everything". My point is that just because the government lies and denies a conspiracy took place when in fact it did take place, doesn't mean that it did not take place when in fact it DID.

Your problem is that YOU assume that if someone DENIES that a conspiracy is true - because they are involved or don't want it to be true - then it's just a theory and not true, even if it is true. Do you see your PROBLEM here? So suppose I murdered you and put drugs next to your body, like in the beginning scene of the movie "Enemy of the State", and the police ruled it a suicide or drug overdose, does that mean that the claim that you were murdered is just a "conspiracy theory" if the powers that be deny it? See what I mean? See how STUPID you are?

Do you see my point? You seem confused here. Everyone knows what a theory is and what a fact is. That's not in debate. What's in dispute is that today, the US government and establishment claim that no conspiracies exist and that all conspiracies are just "theories" including JFK assassination, 9/11 inside job, Princess Diana assassination, NWO agenda, etc. The problem is that YOU and @WorldTraveler assume that lies and denials automatically turn "truth" into "theory" and hence discredit them. Do you see what I mean? In other words, you've BOUGHT the lies and propaganda and have no critical thinking skills, because to you, authority=truth. Just because your research skill SUCK doesn't mean that all conspiracy facts are now conspiracy theories. It just means that YOUR research skills SUCK and YOUR critical thinking skills SUCK. Not that all real conspiracies are just "unproven theories" which is the implication.

Btw, just because you haven't done the research on a conspiracy, doesn't mean it must be false. No. All that means is that YOU didn't do the proper research and are NOT aware of all the facts. For example, if you watched the 5 hour documentary "9/11 The New Pearl Harbor" that I sent you many times, which presents ALL arguments on both sides" you'd conclude that it's 100 percent proven that 9/11 was an inside job to some extent, at least semi. It's inescapable. But you guys didn't watch it because you wanna remain dumb and in denial and call it "just a theory". If you had watched it you'd be an expert on 9/11 and know all the data on both sides and conclude that YES, the 9/11 inside job claim is PROVEN with 100 percent certainty, IF YOU DID THE RESEARCH. But you couldn't even be bothered to watch a 5 hour documentary. Yes 5 hours is long, but if you are real truth seeker, you'd invest the time and watch it and stop believing in lies anymore and know the facts. But you don't. That's YOUR problem, not mine.
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Re: Conspiracy Theories Are Illogical

Post by Winston »

Contrarian Expatriate wrote:
September 9th, 2020, 8:32 pm
Cornfed wrote:
September 9th, 2020, 7:11 pm
I'm not sure how people can continue to deny conspiracy theories when the most audacious and damaging conspiracy in human history is being played out before our eyes. If anyone had predicted the corona hoax a year ago almost everyone would have dismissed them as a raving whackjob conspiracy nut.
Well why don't you enlighten us and describe in detail:

- Specifically WHO is behind the coronavirus conspiracy? And when I say specific, that does not mean naming some diffuse groups like bankers, Jews, or elites. It means naming names and citing evidence of culpability, not just your spewing your opinion.

- What exactly is the goal of the conspiracy and where is your evidence for citing that as a goal? Again, your opinion is irrelevant here. Cite EVIDENCE.

- What is your evidentiary proof that the Corona hysteria was a conspiracy instead of chance opportunism to blame and embarrass Trump and affect the election?

- What is your proof that a conspiracy was internationally coordinated so that most countries around the world worked in concert to establish precautionary quarantine and lockdown policies instead of configuring them on their own based on lack of scientific knowledge at the time?

If you don't have intelligent answers to these basic questions, just shut up and quit blaming everyone and everything for why you mope about the house and can barely function as a responsible adult while dreaming about starting some wacky "business" pipe dream.

If there is any evidence about a Coronavirus conspiracy, it was the Chinese who knew about the virus' release and their intentional spreading of information so that the had a chance to obtain and hoard medications, personal protection equipment, and medical equipment. That is credible because several Chinese medical officials disclosed this and this was corroborated by timelines and verified international purchases of this equipment.
We don't know who or what started Covid-19. Neither do you. Just because someone cannot prove that it was man made doesn't mean it was purely accidental and nature made. You are narrow and black and white. If you cannot prove that opposite, that doesn't mean that it was not man made. All it means is that YOU DON'T KNOW and so you cannot say either way. It doesn't mean that there was no conspiracy and that Covid was accidental and natural. It just means that WE DO NOT KNOW! It doesn't disprove a conspiracy or render it false. By definition if something is a secret, then you wouldn't know about it. Are you seriously that arrogant to think that you know ALL SECRETS and that no secret can exist unless YOU know about it, since you are an all knowing God? LOL. So f***ing arrogant and pompous and idiotic!!!!!!!!!! SO DUMB!!!!!!!

A smart person would just say he doesn't know and remain open to the possibilities, not jump to conclusions and say that there was no conspiracy involved. DUH! SO f***ing STUPID!!!! Why did God create so many stupid people like youi????!!!!!!

Suppose someone had proof that Covid-19 was engineered and a conspiracy and named names. So what? Those who are named will just LIE and DENY it. They would never confess it. DUH! So then what? It remains "just a theory"? LOL

If I deny that 2+2=4 does that mean it's "just a theory? LOL

Watch how EASY it is to lie. I will lie right now:

2+2=5!

See how EASY it was to lie? ANYONE CAN DO IT! DUH!!!!!!!!

You guys are stupider than children I swear!

Anyone can come up with evidence for anything, it's up to us what evidence we accept or believe in and which we don't. Who is the ultimate arbitrater of truth? YOU? Why? Because you are the smartest man in the universe? LOL. NOT! So who determines which conspiracy evidence is valid and which isn't? Not an easy question to resolve of course. But definitely the answer is NOT YOU!
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Re: Conspiracy Theories Are Illogical

Post by Winston »

WorldTraveler wrote:
September 16th, 2020, 12:06 am
Contrarian Expatriate wrote:
September 9th, 2020, 8:32 pm
Cornfed wrote:
September 9th, 2020, 7:11 pm
I'm not sure how people can continue to deny conspiracy theories when the most audacious and damaging conspiracy in human history is being played out before our eyes. If anyone had predicted the corona hoax a year ago almost everyone would have dismissed them as a raving whackjob conspiracy nut.
Well why don't you enlighten us and describe in detail:

- Specifically WHO is behind the coronavirus conspiracy? And when I say specific, that does not mean naming some diffuse groups like bankers, Jews, or elites. It means naming names and citing evidence of culpability, not just your spewing your opinion.

- What exactly is the goal of the conspiracy and where is your evidence for citing that as a goal? Again, your opinion is irrelevant here. Cite EVIDENCE.

- What is your evidentiary proof that the Corona hysteria was a conspiracy instead of chance opportunism to blame and embarrass Trump and affect the election?

- What is your proof that a conspiracy was internationally coordinated so that most countries around the world worked in concert to establish precautionary quarantine and lockdown policies instead of configuring them on their own based on lack of scientific knowledge at the time?

If you don't have intelligent answers to these basic questions, just shut up and quit blaming everyone and everything for why you mope about the house and can barely function as a responsible adult while dreaming about starting some wacky "business" pipe dream.

If there is any evidence about a Coronavirus conspiracy, it was the Chinese who knew about the virus' release and their intentional spreading of information so that the had a chance to obtain and hoard medications, personal protection equipment, and medical equipment. That is credible because several Chinese medical officials disclosed this and this was corroborated by timelines and verified international purchases of this equipment.
@Contrarian Expatriate , thanks for taking this one on. It makes no sense that the Coronavirus is a conspiracy. QAnon is the stupid's thing I've ever heard. I know people that believe this garbage. Believing in conspiracy theories is no diffent than believing in a fundamentalist religion or some cult. It make the believer think he important when he is nothing.

@Winston I have given you the names of books about Conspiracies in history and they are not theories, but they are not bizarre enough for you. Lincoln was killed by a conspiracy and this is accepted.
Why does it make no sense? Many things make no sense but are true. Reality is strange. We all know that. Look at quantum physics and you will see what I mean.

If your goal is to shut down every country and wreck the world economy, then yeah it makes sense to start and engineer a pandemic. If your goal is to depopulate the world then ditto. If your goal is to vaccinate everyone, then ditto. So yeah it can make sense depending on what your goal is. Just because it's not your goal doesn't mean there's not some sicko out there who thinks otherwise. There are some evil people in this world. Denying it doesn't make it not so. Anyone can deny. It doesn't mean anything.

Also some conspiracies are partially true. They are not either 100 percent true or 100 percent false. So don't fall into the trap of black and white extremist thinking.

You said that you have some books about real conspiracies in history. Who determines which conspiracies are true and false? Historians? Academics? Governments? What's your barometer of which conspiracies are true and which are false? Not an easy question to answer of course. Is Wikipedia your source? Are you saying Wikipedia can't lie? My late friend Loyd Pye had a Wikipedia page on him which contained many lies. He listed them all on his website before he passed away. So yes, Wikipedia can lie and post false info about someone.

You see how difficult it is to know what's true and what's false, especially if powerful people want to cover it up? Who's the arbitrater of what's true and what's not? You? Government? Wikipedia? Experts? If so which experts? There are experts with Ph D's on all sides of the issue.

Also anyone can DENY anything. I can deny that 2 and 2 is 4. Does that mean anything? You gotta learn to think for yourself, not jump to conclusions based on your presumptions. What if you're wrong? What if others are SMARTER than you and know more? Did you consider that? Why do you believe that your beliefs MUST be right and the ultimate answers and are unquestionable and that you have all the answers? LOL
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Re: Conspiracy Theories Are Illogical

Post by Winston »

hypermak wrote:
September 9th, 2020, 7:28 pm
I think there are different classes of conspiracy theories. Those implying that a (100%) human power elite is running the show quietly and behind the scenes are probably partly or completely true. Then you have the wackier ones about aliens and demons, subterranean bases and a hollow planet hosting ancient civilisations.

I personally am not such an expert about them and I have perhaps read 1/100th of what @Winston and some of you guys have. One thing I can imagine, though: believing in conspiracy theories can feed our sense of criticism and mistrust towards our rulers and rules, our authorities, and the standard narrative that those rulers and authorities rain on us on a daily basis. That can only be a good thing.

The problem I think most eager believers in conspiracy theories have is, though, what to do with them? Once we get convinced that the "reality" or the "truth" is all about us being constantly force-fed propaganda, manipulated, controlled, enslaved...what can we do about it?

Do we have the power to get our guns and march against the centres of power, if that even made sense in a world of "invisible" powers? Do we barricade in our farms, with cattle and rifles, and stack our shelves waiting for the police or the army to knock on our doors? Do we pretend none of this ever exists and continue a normal life of mortgages, family cars and dogs? Do we ignore them and just focus on the small world that matters to us: our family, our close friends, our community? Do we choose to live dangerously and just for ourselves, as if the world were to end tomorrow and nobody and nothing else mattered?

Whatever the elites are up to, their strategies will be infinitely more successful if we live fragmented, disenfranchised from the community or communities we belong to. This is what interaction only via social media, artificial rifts created over religion, race, politics, ideology, is doing to us.

Remember than the English world "devil", "diavolo" in Italian, comes from the Greek diabolous, which means, literally, "the divider". Evil has always existed but it can more easily prevailed in a divided society.
One more important point. You insinuate above @hypermak that claims about people in power doing corrupt things and trying to establish a NWO global government are plausible and realistic, while aliens, demons and underground bases are all "crazy theories".

Well the thing is, if you do some serious researchers, you will see that that's just not so. Lots of government whistleblowers have claimed that subterranean bases exist or that aliens and UFO's exist, including Prime Ministers like the Canadian prime minister Paul Hellyer and Nick Pope, secretary of defense of the UK, etc. Look up Disclosure Project by Steven Greer of 2001. Over 400 government and miltary officials, including highly credible names, testified at the Disclosure Project hearing in Washington DC. That's definitely credible evidence. I can name you many good UFO documentaries that contain serious credible evidence attested to by many people, including an entire class of students and teachers in Africa. Also the notion of underground bases is not implausible. Some do exist.

So don't jump to conclusions and assume that all alien/UFO's are "crazy theories" that are all untrue or ridiculous. If you do some serious research you will see that's not so.

Also there are are very credible cases of UFO abduction like the Travis Walton case. Walton and 7 of his friends have all taken multiple lie detector tests and passed with flying colors, so it's impossible for them to be lying about the incident. Every skeptic who investigated the Travis Walton case has concluded that it's legit and a genuine abduction case that cannot be explained away. Even government debunkers who investigated the case eventually become believers. It's too well proven and documented. If you seriously research the case, you will agree. I'll bet you any money on it. Watch any documentary about it and you will see what I mean and agree, guaranteed.

So you see, don't jump to preconceived notions that everything in one category, such as UFO's are all false and not credible. Do serious research first. Don't jump to conclusions like the simpletons on this forum do, such as your old enemy CE.

Just something for you to consider.
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Re: Conspiracy Theories Are Illogical

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@Contrarian Expatriate and @WorldTraveler:

Question for you both. Suppose some group or team did engineer the coronavirus in a secret conspiracy to wreck the world economy and help bring about totalitarianism. Just suppose it hypothetically speaking. How would YOU know about it? Do you expect them to pick up the phone and call you and tell you about it? LOL. Even if they did, you'd consider them to be a crank or crackpot right? If they called CNN they'd think they were a crackpot too. So how would you know?

Would it take the US government or media to officially announce it in order for it to be true? lol. So if something isn't on TV then it isn't true? Surely you aren't that dumb or dense right? lol. Are you naive to expect that a group of conspirators would make their conspiracy public? lol. Of course not. So how would you know then???!!! Think about it. You wouldn't right? So where do you get off claiming that a conspiracy can't exist unless you know about it, and a secret can't exist unless you know about it? Isn't that totally arrogant and pompous to ridiculous extremes? lol. At least be honest and admit that you simply DON'T KNOW. Just be honest. It's better than pretending to be God and knowing for sure that all conspiracies theories and claims are bollocks and untrue. That's BS and an extreme unwarranted claim and you know it.

Plus you're not an expert in virology or biology, and even experts who are, have differing views. So you aren't qualified to comment. Better to be honest and admit you don't know then to be pompous and pretend that you know for sure either way.

Let me leave you with one last hypothetical example to think about:

Suppose I had you killed and put an open bottle of drugs next to your body, like in the opening scene of the movie "Enemy of the State" starring Will Smith. Then the police find your body and label you a suicide or drug overdose, just as I made it look like. Then one of your friends asks me if I killed you and I say "Of course not! How dare you accuse me!" But your friend doesn't believe me, so he/she goes to the public and spreads claims that I killed you and covered it up by making it look like a drug overdoes. In response I ridicule your friend and say that he or she is "spreading crazy conspiracy theories" about me, using the dreaded term "conspiracy theory" to marginalize his claims.

Ok so at what point is my murder of you become a fact or a theory? Which is it in this case? What if I destroy all the evidence that I murder you so that no one can find it, thus committing the perfect crime? Does that mean you really did die of suicide even though in reality I killed you? Simply because the evidence was cleverly dispensed of by me, and the authorities did not charge me? In this case, is my murdering of you a "conspiracy theory" or a "conspiracy fact"?

Think about this and you will see how fallacious you have been. Hope that helps open your eyes and make you think. But as we know, people only change their minds if they are open and willing to, but not if they don't. For those who want to believe something, any evidence will do. For those who refuse to believe, no amount of evidence will convince them. Both are extremes. Take the middle ground if you want to be balanced and real. Think about it.
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Re: Conspiracy Theories Are Illogical

Post by Winston »

My new blog post to conspiracy deniers about why they are in an inescapable dilemma.

To Conspiracy Deniers: Corruption or Conspiracy? Either Way You Are WRONG and You LOSE! Your Inescapable Dilemma.

https://blog.happierabroad.com/2021/01/ ... -lose.html
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