Join John Adams Mon and Wed nights 7:30 EST for Live Webcasts!
And check out Five Reasons why you should attend a FREE AFA Seminar!


Share This Page

View Active Topics       View Your Posts       Latest 100 Topics       Elegance Theme       Dark Theme

Why does God allow evil, suffering & injustice to exist, and bad things to happen to good people?

Discuss religion and spirituality topics.

Moderators: jamesbond, fschmidt

User avatar
Neo
Junior Poster
Posts: 972
Joined: June 28th, 2018, 11:27 am

Re: Why does God allow evil, suffering & injustice to exist, and bad things to happen to good people?

Post by Neo »

Mercury wrote:
September 12th, 2020, 1:58 am
Neo wrote:
September 6th, 2020, 2:59 pm
Mercury wrote:
September 3rd, 2020, 6:31 pm

Sadly, Adam and Eve succumbed to temptation and ate of the exact tree that God told them not to eat from, the tree of knowledge of good and evil. And how easy it was for Eve to have said to that serpent; "Actually, the fruit of that tree over there looks just as ripe and delicious as the fruit of this tree, so I think I will go try the fruit of that tree over there." And equally easy for her to have gone and eaten possibly of the Tree of Life even. But no. They just had to eat of the tree of knowledge of good and evil and destroy it all for us.

God allows evil, suffering, and injustice to exist on the Earth because it's part of man's penalty for eating of the tree of knowledge of good and evil. And now the world is practically about on the verge of a global dictatorship and a war so violent and out of control that only Jesus will be capable of halting it before it causes the complete, total extinction of the entire human race.
Now each person gets to prove who he or she is to God by his or her own works, whether the person is good or evil, and their eternal reward will be according to that.
In the Garden of Eden, there was but one commandment to obey. No eating of the tree of knowledge of good and evil. No thanks to Adam and Eve, we have close to 1,700 commandments and rules that have to be perfectly followed, and the only people who will make it into Heaven either at their death or at the Rapture are those who have not sinned since the last time all of their sins were forgiven. And with close to 1,700 rules and commandments, you don't even know if you sinned or not! Almost nobody can memorize all 1,667 individual rules, even the 613 commands that were in the Mosaic law.
Sorry to say, my friend, but you've forgotten the whole purpose of Jesus Christ. Work salvation people deny Jesus, by saying their eternal salvation is by them keeping the commandments. They make themselves their own saviors (and their own God) through their works, meaning they trust in themselves and have rejected Christ by doing so.

The whole reason why Jesus came to earth was to save people from their sins, because God foreknew that nobody can keep the entirely of the commandments in perfection, except for Himself. That's why He came.

There's a twofold purpose (there's more but two concerning salvation) of Jesus Christ on earth:

1. Was to keep the commandments in perfection from birth until death. He did that for us. Meaning He was perfect for us and kept the commandments for us.
2. He died for the sins we actually commit.

All a person has to do is believe in Jesus, and God will ascribe (or account) the righteousness of Christ onto that person for the purpose of eternal salvation.

That was the purpose of the Messiah: to save humanity from their sins.

Anyone who believes that they can save themselves by keeping the commandments is mistaken.

You need to absorb the verses that say that salvation is by belief/faith alone. Also read Acts 10 until it sinks in.

Also Read 1 John and Jesus in the NT. The commandments can be summed up by loving God with all your heart, and by loving your neighbor as yourself.

For those who believe in Jesus Christ as the Son of God, their sins are covered past, present and future. Read the first few verses of Romans 4 where it says that sins will not be imputed.
Prudence is the knowledge of things to be sought, and those to be shunned.

MrMan
Elite Upper Class Poster
Posts: 3415
Joined: July 30th, 2014, 7:52 pm

Re: Why does God allow evil, suffering & injustice to exist, and bad things to happen to good people?

Post by MrMan »

Winston wrote:
April 21st, 2011, 1:43 am
Now, we all know that there are billions of people suffering in the world, most of whom are innocent, both now and throughout history. And we all know that evil sociopaths often go unpunished and attain positions of power more often than good people do (since power attracts evil rather than good). Therefore, it is logically impossible for there to be a God who is both all-powerful and all-good, as the Christians claim, and yet allows all this to be so. Logically, such a deity would not allow the suffering of billions of innocent people throughout history, nor allow evil sociopaths to constantly attain the majority of positions of power and go unpunished (while the good die young). There is no escape from this dilemma.
A philosopher said that a good God can allow evil if He has a good reason (not an exact quote from van Inwagen). In the Bible, Joseph's brothers are envious of him and throw him in a pit and sell him off as a slave. Through a series of events, he becomes second in command in Egypt. Later, when he reveals himself to his brothers who have gone to Egypt to buy grain, he tells them what they meant for evil, God meant for good to bring about a great deliverance. Some people may not like that, but it does show that the problem of evil is not some kind of logical problem with Christianity...or Judaism for that manner.

Christianity also teaches that God grows and develops people through suffering and difficulties.

Also, thinking of God as a set of 'omnis' and using logical syllogisms is also problematic. I have even encountered the idea that God does not have emotions. This is based on folk etymology about the etymology of 'emotions', possibly combined with some Platonic thought, but it is not in line with the Bible's teachings. God has intelligence and a will. He is not a set of logical propositions.

If we assume God created some beings with free will (a proposition Christians are not all in agreement on) then it stands to reason that some beings could will to do things opposed to God's will. Opposing what God has decreed is sin. Sin is evil. If we accept the idea that there is free will, we should accept the idea that evil can exist. There is no logical reason to think that God could not wait for a period of time before eliminating those who do evil if He has a good reason for doing so.
To put this in perspective:

1) Billions of innocent people are suffering in the world, both now and throughout history.
The Bible says that all have sinned and come short of the glory of God. There are billions of guilty people on the earth suffering in various ways.
2) Evil is allowed to exist, run rampant, and attain positions of power in the majority of cases, more often than good virtuous people do.
3) God is all-powerful and all-good, yet allows #1 and #2 to exist, both now and throughout history.
God has appointed a day at which He will judge all men by the Man that He has chosen.
All three of the
5) God is nothing like what you think he is, or is something beyond your comprehension.
6) God lets suffering and evil exist for reasons beyond your comprehension, and/or does not have the same morals that you do. Thus he does not do what you would do if you were him.
If 'you' means the person raising these objections, then 6 is obviously true. The idea that God is beyond our comprehension is also a good point. The Bible asks Who has known the mind of the Lord that He may instruct Him?
7) God needs to allow both good and evil to exist for the universe to exist, because all things are defined by their opposite and cannot exist without it, as depicted in the Chinese ying yang symbol.
No, and that explanation does not seem to have a root in Biblical thought.
The standard Christian explanation for the above makes no sense at all and is a ridiculous cop-out:

"God allows evil and suffering to exist in the world because Man chose to Sin in the Garden of Eden. God gave Man freewill, and Mankind chose Sin. Hence death, pain, decay and evil entered into the world. God is 100 percent just and righteous, so all this is Mankind's fault, not God's. It says so in the Bible."
If you get your 'standard Christian response' from some posters on the Internet, maybe that is what you get. But you will likely find different arguments by people who have studied who have thought these issues through.

The Bible also shows that God prepares the church through suffering. A lot of this stuff that is going on is so that God can prepare the church, the body of believers, for the future. He is preparing a bride for His Son made up of those who are redeemed through faith in the Son. The sufferings of this world prepare the saints for the coming age. Through the church, God also demonstrates His wisdom to principalities and powers, which I take to mean non-human intelligent entities, popularly known as angels. Some of them may have been a bit rebellious and could possibly have been worshipped as gods in past ages, (or all those may be exclusively be shedim/demon spirits).

Mercury
Junior Poster
Posts: 603
Joined: October 10th, 2016, 8:26 pm
Location: Atlanta, GA

Re: Why does God allow evil, suffering & injustice to exist, and bad things to happen to good people?

Post by Mercury »

Neo wrote:
September 12th, 2020, 4:54 am
Mercury wrote:
September 12th, 2020, 1:58 am
Neo wrote:
September 6th, 2020, 2:59 pm
Mercury wrote:
September 3rd, 2020, 6:31 pm

Sadly, Adam and Eve succumbed to temptation and ate of the exact tree that God told them not to eat from, the tree of knowledge of good and evil. And how easy it was for Eve to have said to that serpent; "Actually, the fruit of that tree over there looks just as ripe and delicious as the fruit of this tree, so I think I will go try the fruit of that tree over there." And equally easy for her to have gone and eaten possibly of the Tree of Life even. But no. They just had to eat of the tree of knowledge of good and evil and destroy it all for us.

God allows evil, suffering, and injustice to exist on the Earth because it's part of man's penalty for eating of the tree of knowledge of good and evil. And now the world is practically about on the verge of a global dictatorship and a war so violent and out of control that only Jesus will be capable of halting it before it causes the complete, total extinction of the entire human race.
Now each person gets to prove who he or she is to God by his or her own works, whether the person is good or evil, and their eternal reward will be according to that.
In the Garden of Eden, there was but one commandment to obey. No eating of the tree of knowledge of good and evil. No thanks to Adam and Eve, we have close to 1,700 commandments and rules that have to be perfectly followed, and the only people who will make it into Heaven either at their death or at the Rapture are those who have not sinned since the last time all of their sins were forgiven. And with close to 1,700 rules and commandments, you don't even know if you sinned or not! Almost nobody can memorize all 1,667 individual rules, even the 613 commands that were in the Mosaic law.
Sorry to say, my friend, but you've forgotten the whole purpose of Jesus Christ. Work salvation people deny Jesus, by saying their eternal salvation is by them keeping the commandments. They make themselves their own saviors (and their own God) through their works, meaning they trust in themselves and have rejected Christ by doing so.

The whole reason why Jesus came to earth was to save people from their sins, because God foreknew that nobody can keep the entirely of the commandments in perfection, except for Himself. That's why He came.

There's a twofold purpose (there's more but two concerning salvation) of Jesus Christ on earth:

1. Was to keep the commandments in perfection from birth until death. He did that for us. Meaning He was perfect for us and kept the commandments for us.
2. He died for the sins we actually commit.

All a person has to do is believe in Jesus, and God will ascribe (or account) the righteousness of Christ onto that person for the purpose of eternal salvation.

That was the purpose of the Messiah: to save humanity from their sins.

Anyone who believes that they can save themselves by keeping the commandments is mistaken.

You need to absorb the verses that say that salvation is by belief/faith alone. Also read Acts 10 until it sinks in.

Also Read 1 John and Jesus in the NT. The commandments can be summed up by loving God with all your heart, and by loving your neighbor as yourself.

For those who believe in Jesus Christ as the Son of God, their sins are covered past, present and future. Read the first few verses of Romans 4 where it says that sins will not be imputed.
Then why are there people and preachers that say that in order to enter Heaven and stay out of Hell, a person has to believe in Jesus AND perfectly keep all 1,667 commandments? There are even street preachers with huge signs and bullhorns that tell you that in order to stay out of Hell, you need to believe Jesus died for your sins AND you need to perfectly keep all 1,667 commandments (Matthew 5:48). They say that even demons believe in Jesus and they know Jesus exists, but yet they will never get out of Hell. Same with people already in there.

And even Jesus said to go down the narrow path and that the path to Hell is broad and wide and many are on it.

User avatar
Neo
Junior Poster
Posts: 972
Joined: June 28th, 2018, 11:27 am

Re: Why does God allow evil, suffering & injustice to exist, and bad things to happen to good people?

Post by Neo »

Mercury wrote:
September 15th, 2020, 7:32 pm
Neo wrote:
September 12th, 2020, 4:54 am
Mercury wrote:
September 12th, 2020, 1:58 am
Neo wrote:
September 6th, 2020, 2:59 pm
Mercury wrote:
September 3rd, 2020, 6:31 pm

Sadly, Adam and Eve succumbed to temptation and ate of the exact tree that God told them not to eat from, the tree of knowledge of good and evil. And how easy it was for Eve to have said to that serpent; "Actually, the fruit of that tree over there looks just as ripe and delicious as the fruit of this tree, so I think I will go try the fruit of that tree over there." And equally easy for her to have gone and eaten possibly of the Tree of Life even. But no. They just had to eat of the tree of knowledge of good and evil and destroy it all for us.

God allows evil, suffering, and injustice to exist on the Earth because it's part of man's penalty for eating of the tree of knowledge of good and evil. And now the world is practically about on the verge of a global dictatorship and a war so violent and out of control that only Jesus will be capable of halting it before it causes the complete, total extinction of the entire human race.
Now each person gets to prove who he or she is to God by his or her own works, whether the person is good or evil, and their eternal reward will be according to that.
In the Garden of Eden, there was but one commandment to obey. No eating of the tree of knowledge of good and evil. No thanks to Adam and Eve, we have close to 1,700 commandments and rules that have to be perfectly followed, and the only people who will make it into Heaven either at their death or at the Rapture are those who have not sinned since the last time all of their sins were forgiven. And with close to 1,700 rules and commandments, you don't even know if you sinned or not! Almost nobody can memorize all 1,667 individual rules, even the 613 commands that were in the Mosaic law.
Sorry to say, my friend, but you've forgotten the whole purpose of Jesus Christ. Work salvation people deny Jesus, by saying their eternal salvation is by them keeping the commandments. They make themselves their own saviors (and their own God) through their works, meaning they trust in themselves and have rejected Christ by doing so.

The whole reason why Jesus came to earth was to save people from their sins, because God foreknew that nobody can keep the entirely of the commandments in perfection, except for Himself. That's why He came.

There's a twofold purpose (there's more but two concerning salvation) of Jesus Christ on earth:

1. Was to keep the commandments in perfection from birth until death. He did that for us. Meaning He was perfect for us and kept the commandments for us.
2. He died for the sins we actually commit.

All a person has to do is believe in Jesus, and God will ascribe (or account) the righteousness of Christ onto that person for the purpose of eternal salvation.

That was the purpose of the Messiah: to save humanity from their sins.

Anyone who believes that they can save themselves by keeping the commandments is mistaken.

You need to absorb the verses that say that salvation is by belief/faith alone. Also read Acts 10 until it sinks in.

Also Read 1 John and Jesus in the NT. The commandments can be summed up by loving God with all your heart, and by loving your neighbor as yourself.

For those who believe in Jesus Christ as the Son of God, their sins are covered past, present and future. Read the first few verses of Romans 4 where it says that sins will not be imputed.
Then why are there people and preachers that say that in order to enter Heaven and stay out of Hell, a person has to believe in Jesus AND perfectly keep all 1,667 commandments? There are even street preachers with huge signs and bullhorns that tell you that in order to stay out of Hell, you need to believe Jesus died for your sins AND you need to perfectly keep all 1,667 commandments (Matthew 5:48). They say that even demons believe in Jesus and they know Jesus exists, but yet they will never get out of Hell. Same with people already in there.

And even Jesus said to go down the narrow path and that the path to Hell is broad and wide and many are on it.
Because they are simply mistaken. There are many delusions that can keep someone from being saved. Work salvation (same as faith + works) is one of them.

Either a person is saved by faith alone or by works, but not both. They cannot be combined for salvation. Work salvation is the person saying that he is his own Christ or Messiah, meaning that he himself is as righteous as God to keep the commandments in perfection. Anyone should be able to see, to keep the commandments with the perfection of Christ from birth to death is something that only God can do. All other people who cannot perform such a feat only need to believe in Jesus and His works.

Work salvation is like trying to build a ladder to heaven. It is simply impossible. This is the whole reason why Jesus had to be Savior. If a person could save himself by keeping the commandments, then there would have been no need for Christ to die for our sins. There'd be no reason for a Messiah at all. Each person would be his own messiah. (That is the Satanic doctrine by the way, that each person is his own redeemer.)

God made salvation very simple, because He wants everyone to be saved. There is simplicity in Christ. Believe and be saved, because those who don't believe are under wrath.

As for the angels believing, since when did Christ die for angels? Jesus died for humans, not for angels.

Also, once a person is dead and in hell, it's over for them. The chance to be saved is while the person is alive, not after death.

Works are not to be trusted in for salvation. Only trusting in Christ is what brings salvation. If you still can't see this, go to any thread in the religious section started by Adama or Neo and read there.

Read Romans 3 and 4. It's staring you right in the face.
Prudence is the knowledge of things to be sought, and those to be shunned.

User avatar
Neo
Junior Poster
Posts: 972
Joined: June 28th, 2018, 11:27 am

Re: Why does God allow evil, suffering & injustice to exist, and bad things to happen to good people?

Post by Neo »

Mercury wrote:
September 15th, 2020, 7:32 pm

Then why are there people and preachers that say that in order to enter Heaven and stay out of Hell, a person has to believe in Jesus AND perfectly keep all 1,667 commandments? There are even street preachers with huge signs and bullhorns that tell you that in order to stay out of Hell, you need to believe Jesus died for your sins AND you need to perfectly keep all 1,667 commandments (Matthew 5:48). They say that even demons believe in Jesus and they know Jesus exists, but yet they will never get out of Hell. Same with people already in there.

And even Jesus said to go down the narrow path and that the path to Hell is broad and wide and many are on it.
Romans 9
30 What shall we say then? That the Gentiles, which followed not after righteousness, have attained to righteousness, even the righteousness which is of faith.

31 But Israel, which followed after the law of righteousness, hath not attained to the law of righteousness.

32 Wherefore? Because they sought it not by faith, but as it were by the works of the law. For they stumbled at that stumblingstone;


Either by grace through faith alone, or by works, but not both:
Romans 11:6

6 And if by grace, then is it no more of works: otherwise grace is no more grace. But if it be of works, then it is no more grace: otherwise work is no more work.

Romans 3:20-28
King James Version

20 Therefore by the deeds of the law there shall no flesh be justified in his sight: for by the law is the knowledge of sin.

21 But now the righteousness of God without the law is manifested, being witnessed by the law and the prophets;

22 Even the righteousness of God which is by faith of Jesus Christ unto all and upon all them that believe: for there is no difference:

23 For all have sinned, and come short of the glory of God;

24 Being justified freely by his grace through the redemption that is in Christ Jesus:

25 Whom God hath set forth to be a propitiation through faith in his blood, to declare his righteousness for the remission of sins that are past, through the forbearance of God;

26 To declare, I say, at this time his righteousness: that he might be just, and the justifier of him which believeth in Jesus.

27 Where is boasting then? It is excluded. By what law? of works? Nay: but by the law of faith.

28 Therefore we conclude that a man is justified by faith without the deeds of the law.

There are many salvation by faith alone verses. A person just needs to actually read them.
Prudence is the knowledge of things to be sought, and those to be shunned.

User avatar
Winston
Site Admin
Posts: 32610
Joined: August 18th, 2007, 6:16 am
Contact:

Re: Why does God allow evil, suffering & injustice to exist, and bad things to happen to good people?

Post by Winston »

Why does God usually allow evil to win?

I think God is both good and evil. Like Hinduism says and pantheism. Its the only theory that makes sense and why he would allow Satan. Because Satan is just an alter ego of god. His dark side so to speak. He has to create another entity to take all the blame for the worlds evil and suffering. Otherwise people will not worship a God that they blame for everything and all their misfortune. It makes sense if u think about it. If we are all fragments of God as new age, hinduism, mysticism and pantheism say, then the evil people are just God's evil side or dark side playing out some sick twisted game and we are all fools for not seeing it. It makes sense if u think about it. The universe and life seems like its toying with us and playing mind games and enjoys ruining our expectations. That also explains murphys law which defies normal probability.
Check out my FUN video clips in Russia and SE Asia and Female Encounters of the Foreign Kind video series and Full Russia Trip Videos!

Join my Dating Site to meet thousands of legit foreign girls at low cost!

"It takes far less effort to find and move to the society that has what you want than it does to try to reconstruct an existing society to match your standards." - Harry Browne

User avatar
Neo
Junior Poster
Posts: 972
Joined: June 28th, 2018, 11:27 am

Re: Why does God allow evil, suffering & injustice to exist, and bad things to happen to good people?

Post by Neo »

Winston wrote:
January 13th, 2021, 1:33 am
Why does God usually allow evil to win?

I think God is both good and evil. Like Hinduism says and pantheism. Its the only theory that makes sense and why he would allow Satan. Because Satan is just an alter ego of god. His dark side so to speak. He has to create another entity to take all the blame for the worlds evil and suffering. Otherwise people will not worship a God that they blame for everything and all their misfortune. It makes sense if u think about it. If we are all fragments of God as new age, hinduism, mysticism and pantheism say, then the evil people are just God's evil side or dark side playing out some sick twisted game and we are all fools for not seeing it. It makes sense if u think about it. The universe and life seems like its toying with us and playing mind games and enjoys ruining our expectations. That also explains murphys law which defies normal probability.
Nobody ever said that life was going to be all candy and roses, Winston. Remember, death has entered the world, and this world is no longer the final destination for humanity.

There is a war going on. That is a prolonged battle between good and evil. Everyone must choose which side they want to be on.

God's commandments prove that He is holy: Do not steal, murder, bear false witness; love thy neighbor as thyself. These demonstrate the righteousness and purity of God. Also, dying for the sins of sinners also proves how much He loves humanity. Also forgiveness of sins proves His love for humanity.

There will be much suffering in this life, however, even for the righteous and those who live godly lives. It is a part of the warfare between good and evil. Those people who choose evil will have their evil deeds witness against them when they are judged.

Also for the saved who suffer, God is able to reward them many times more in eternity for it.

I thought you had been a Christian before.
Prudence is the knowledge of things to be sought, and those to be shunned.

Post Reply
  • Similar Topics
    Replies
    Views
    Last post

Return to “Religion and Spirituality”