Four Extraordinary Aspects of Christianity That Atheists Can't Explain

[Winston]

@Neo and @MrMan:

Have u noticed something about Jesus and devout Christians? They seem different from other spiritual groups and religions in one way. They seem to have a strong backbone in their soul, like a spiritual backbone made of steel. As if their spiritual spine was made of a rod of iron while people of other religions have no strong backbone in their soul, just weak sticks. Have u noticed this? Its hard to explain. Its just a feeling. As though there is truth inside the Christian heart and soul in a way others dont have. A conviction that is held up by an iron rod of steel. U know what i mean? Even if the Bible or Christian beliefs don't sound logical or make sense, you still get this sense and feeling. U know what i mean? Its like they have something very strong and genuine that others dont have. U can feel it and sense it in your soul. U know what I mean? Do u sense the same feeling?

Jesus Himself said that He is the truth, the way and the life.

That's been debunked. Saying so doesn't make it true, even if he did say so. I've explained why here already.

Why Jesus is NOT the only way to God - 6 Logical Reasons
viewtopic.php?f=15&t=31994

[Winston]

What a good essay Winston, I am an atheist but there are things in Christianity which really interest me:

1) Original sin leading to dispositional, innate guilt - something I think many a deep soul feels and only Christianity explains well.

2) Redemption - this is an important and helpful things if offered in the right way. Not just you go to confession and sins are washed away, but you have the option of leaving behind a disastrous worldy life and living that of a saintly hermit - not option number 1 perhaps, but a good plan B. Buddhism has this but without the same idea of redemption of the soul, merely a cleansing and despersonalization.

3) Jesus turning over the tables of the money lenders at the temple. A strong anti-capitalist, anti-greed message. An evil thing such business must be to make Jesus angry,

@El_Caudillo

1) Well yes, that's a good point. We do feel innately as if humanity has fallen from something. Like there's a deep wound in the soul. But there are multiple explanations for that. It doesn't make the Bible literally true or infallible, only metaphorically true. Even "A Course On Miracles" has the fall of our souls from God consciousness as a core theme.

2) Yes there is something very transformative about the Christian faith that feels powerful too, despite its problems and contradictions and logic errors. That is what I'm trying to understand too.

3) Yes but some say that led to Jesus' crucifixion, so it wasn't a wise thing to do. Buddha certainly wouldn't have done that.

This History Channel documentary about the last days of Jesus is interesting and speculates on what led to the crucifixion.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=s3FGd68GhYc

Another longer documentary about the last days of Jesus.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ugxo2JCxBKw

[Winston]

Winston, you said the Psalms were turned into prophecies about Christ when they really weren't.

But before Jesus, Jews interpreted many of these same passages to be about the Messiah. Early Christian use of passages to refer to the Messiah is in keeping with the traditions of Jewish interpretation. Psalm 22 does predict a wound on the hands and the feet. And there is the suffering servant prophecy of Isaiah 53.

No that's been debunked long ago. The Psalms are songs of King David. They are not prophecies. Nowhere do they say they are prophecies of a future messiah. Those are the claims of desperate NT writers looking for anything they can, and grasping at straws, to try to prove that the messiah was meant to die on the cross, to explain Jesus crucifixion because it shocked them, because everyone expected a warrior messiah to defeat Rome and establish Judea as a superpower.

Ask any Jewish Rabbi. They will tell you that the messiah was supposed to be a warrior messiah that establishes a political kingdom for Israel. That's what the OT says. That's why all the Jews in Jesus' day were expecting that. Even Christian apologists and scholars admit this.

The suffering servant of Isaiah has been debunked too.

Look up Dr. Bart Ehrman. He's one of the world's top authorities on how the Bible changed over time and its countless contradictions, etc. His lectures and books answer all your questions about that.

[Winston]

About answered prayer and supernatural stuff like that, I've seen a lot of it. What I don't get is why you would leave your religion if God was answering your prayers? Why not just stick with it?

Because:

1. I was very angry with God on my last day of high school in 1992. I had no friends, no girls, was very lonely, and the only female companion I had in class was even taken away from me a few months earlier. So even what little female company I had was taken away. God wouldn't even at least let me have that. It was very cruel. I lost faith in him and decided to break up with God. I had it. Too many disappointments and bad luck. Eventually I had it.

2. I could also not accept anymore that all my loved ones and family were all going to hell, even though they are good people, just because they are not Christian. That's ridiculous and impossible to resolve or justify.

3. Once out of high school, I was no longer persecuted and feeling insecure everyday at school. So I no longer needed Christianity as a crutch. I also felt it was too oppressive. I could not even open an astrology book or study the paranormal without feeling guilty about disobeying the Bible. That means I was tired of how the Bible totally closed my mind and didn't allow freedom for me to explore other subjects I was interested in. Too dictatorial. Like living under a dictator with no freedom of mind or thought. As I became an intellectual and deep thinker, this became more important to me.

4. After studying the literature and arguments of Bible skeptics and critics, I realized there are many good reasons for rejecting Christian fundamentalism, which I was looking for. So I had good excuses for rejecting fundamentalism finally, which deep down I wanted to anyway. I was moving toward a different path, toward New Age.

Either way, regardless of what you think, the bottom line is that there's no logical or valid basis to accept Christian fundamentalism as the ultimate truth and all other beliefs as false. The Bible was written by man and is NOT infallible. No way. And just because Christians or the Bible says something is true, does not make it so. Bottom line.

[Neo]

@Neo and @MrMan:

Have u noticed something about Jesus and devout Christians? They seem different from other spiritual groups and religions in one way. They seem to have a strong backbone in their soul, like a spiritual backbone made of steel. As if their spiritual spine was made of a rod of iron while people of other religions have no strong backbone in their soul, just weak sticks. Have u noticed this? Its hard to explain. Its just a feeling. As though there is truth inside the Christian heart and soul in a way others dont have. A conviction that is held up by an iron rod of steel. U know what i mean? Even if the Bible or Christian beliefs don't sound logical or make sense, you still get this sense and feeling. U know what i mean? Its like they have something very strong and genuine that others dont have. U can feel it and sense it in your soul. U know what I mean? Do u sense the same feeling?

Jesus Himself said that He is the truth, the way and the life.

That's been debunked. Saying so doesn't make it true, even if he did say so. I've explained why here already.

Why Jesus is NOT the only way to God - 6 Logical Reasons
viewtopic.php?f=15&t=31994

If the person who says it is the Lord, meaning God in the flesh on earth, then certainly what He said is true simply because He said it. He is God and one with the Father.

[Contrarian Expatriate]

Christianity is the most wickedly arrogant and toxic faith on the planet. Image the gall for any "faith" to teach that their small little club has the one true understanding of life and God while the others are unfortunately doomed to hell. That is demonic evil by any reasonable standard.

Further, only 29% of the world identifies as Christian. That means 71% of the world is by chance of birth circumstances, locked out of that glorious, magical club.

But it doesn't end there! Those 29% are all splintered up into competing denominations that hate each other and consider other denominations as fake or false Christianity. The United States has roughly 200 different denominations, and the world likely has 3 times that many. The good thing about that is they are eating each other alive and exposing the hypocrisy and hate of Christianity in the process which is a great thing.

Face it. Christianity is pure bigotry, ignorance, and evil. The sooner the world is rid of this repugnant scourge, the better. Islamists and secularists will one day round up Christians and line them up against walls. This day can't come soon enough, but in the meantime, just ignore Christians and their hate-filled rhetoric with which they try to intimidate others.

I've gotten Christian preachers arrested for breaching the peace and for public nuisance violations. I see them getting arrested around the country now for endangering their congregations in the lockdown. I will not be satisfied until they are diminished as a meaningful factor in Western life.

[flowerthief00]

Though I'm pretty hardcore atheist I do not share CE's opinion of Christianity. I see Christianity influence on humanity as a mixed bag of positives and negatives. The proof of that for me is that I've known many Christians who were by almost any measure wonderful people. Friendly and kind and generous people. I cannot believe that that many good people would congregate in a faith that was pure evil. Of course not all Christians are good people; reality is nuanced that way.

And I certainly do not take the view that Christians are worse than Islamists. No way, Islamists are a bigger problem in our age, Islam being a younger religion which has not quite outgrown its violent streak.

[Neo]

The more the opposition, the greater the reward for the righteous.

[Contrarian Expatriate]

Though I'm pretty hardcore atheist I do not share CE's opinion of Christianity. I see Christianity influence on humanity as a mixed bag of positives and negatives. The proof of that for me is that I've known many Christians who were by almost any measure wonderful people. Friendly and kind and generous people. I cannot believe that that many good people would congregate in a faith that was pure evil. Of course not all Christians are good people; reality is nuanced that way.

And I certainly do not take the view that Christians are worse than Islamists. No way, Islamists are a bigger problem in our age, Islam being a younger religion which has not quite outgrown its violent streak.

I think both of them are horrible, but Islam is just reflective of the backward societies it serves. I do hope Islam overtakes Christianity in the West however. Then Islam will wane away after a few generations.

Where you and I differ is that you cited wonderful individual Christians. I am sure a few of them are. But my disdain is for the faith of Christianity, its doctrines, its methods, and its dogma. By extension, the people who try to poison the minds of others with this smut are too evil despite their polished and polite veneers. This is the evil I wrote of, not particular Christians who might be otherwise decent people (rare as that would be).

[Contrarian Expatriate]

The more the opposition, the greater the reward for the righteous.

You're not righteous, you're self-righteous. And if there is an afterlife, you and other toxic Christians will be made to pay for that smug and bigoted disposition for which you Christians are so infamous.

Most people in the history of the world have not been Christians, so it is the highest of arrogant narcissism for you to believe that you are the chosen ones with the grand secret. When you die, you'll see very quickly how very wrong you are, and wickedly so.

But don't take my word for it, take the accounts of formerly brainwashed Christians who temporarily died during Near Death Experiences (NDEs). They came back still being Christian but without the smug, castigating attitude that you and others have. In fact, they discounted the importance of organized religion completely.

I suggest you listen to accounts from people who have actually died and have a wiser view about what matters than misguided Christians. It's your choice. If you stay religiously bigoted and continue to spread hate and fear like Christians like to to, you're not going to heaven. Sorry to break it to you.

[Neo]

The more the opposition, the greater the reward for the righteous.

You're not righteous, you're self-righteous. And if there is an afterlife, you and other toxic Christians will be made to pay for that smug and bigoted disposition for which you Christians are so infamous.

Most people in the history of the world have not been Christians, so it is the highest of arrogant narcissism for you to believe that you are the chosen ones with the grand secret. When you die, you'll see very quickly how very wrong you are, and wickedly so.

But don't take my word for it, take the accounts of formerly brainwashed Christians who temporarily died during Near Death Experiences (NDEs). They came back still being Christian but without the smug, castigating attitude that you and others have. In fact, they discounted the importance of organized religion completely.

I suggest you listen to accounts from people who have actually died and have a wiser view about what matters than misguided Christians. It's your choice. If you stay religiously bigoted and continue to spread hate and fear like Christians like to to, you're not going to heaven. Sorry to break it to you.

None of what you said has moved me one bit. It doesn't matter to me at all.

[Contrarian Expatriate]

None of what you said has moved me one bit. It doesn't matter to me at all.

The fact that you mention that implies that it very much did, and good for you that it did. There might be hope for you yet.

[Neo]

None of what you said has moved me one bit. It doesn't matter to me at all.

The fact that you mention that implies that it very much did, and good for you that it did. There might be hope for you yet.

You certainly are interesting, but I'm not worried. An internet conversation doesn't rattle me. My temper is fine. I've been through far worse things than internet conversations.

[Yohan]

You might believe in the existence of a God or not. There is no proof for the existence of a God. Might be, might not be.
However even if a God really does exist somehow, this is still no proof for any form of afterlife for you after your death.

Therefore the only way to know that a God exists AND you will be transferred to an afterlife is to die.
To die - with your body destroyed - and not to be back again and to talk later on about a 'Near Death Experience' which I consider as hallucination of a confused brain.

And the follow-up question is of course what kind of afterlife could this be? Religion tells us about a soul which will continue to exist after your body is destroyed - but after your death has the soul consciousness?

If my afterlife is like a stone without consciousness, what kind of afterlife is this....is a soul a dead matter or will my soul regain consciousness somehow?

So far not even one religious bigot could explain that to me.

I don't know about any soul which tried to contact somehow people still alive, not even one...this might indicate that there is no afterlife in form of consciousness at all. It means souls - should they exist - are kept deaf, blind, silent .... unable to act out of themselves.

If this is really the case, the existence of a God taking care of souls without consciousness is meaningless...

[Yohan]

https://www.yahoo.com/news/jesus-really ... 03705.html
What Jesus Really Said About Heaven and Hell

Interesting article and interesting follow-up comments....