Gnosticism, Lost Gospels, Esoteric Christianity - Secret Teachings of Jesus Suppressed by the Church?

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Re: Gnosticism & The Lost Gospels - Secret Esoteric Teachings of Jesus For Initiates Only?

Post by Neo »

Winston wrote:
January 9th, 2021, 11:51 pm
Ive been studying Gnosticism the last few days. I got a few questions.

1. First did Gnosticism come before orthodox Christianity or after? The Christian scholars say it originated in 2nd century so its not original Christianity. But gnostics say the original Jesus taught gnosticism. And that gnosticism goes back to Plato. Whats the truth? Im confused. Are the roots of Gnosticism ancient? Or did it begin in 2nd century in Alexandria?
It's false Christianity. It has nothing to do with God. Atheists and others wish to believe it does though. A good understanding of Christianity is all anyone needs to realize that the Gnostic Gospels are not Christian at all.
Winston wrote:
January 9th, 2021, 11:51 pm

3. Why is both Lucifer and Jesus described as the morning star in the bible? Does that mean they are the same person or connected? Could jesus be the serpent that tried to liberate adam and eve from ignorance and enslavement? This is all very confusing.
Jesus is the Bright and Morning Star: See Revelation 22:16 KJV.
The other person you mentioned is the "son of the morning": See Isaiah 14:12 KJV.
Winston wrote:
January 9th, 2021, 11:51 pm
However since the OT God was clearly a dictator and control freak and vengeful and demanded obedience without question, it stands to say that anyone opposing that including a serpent may have had good intentions right? So it is possible that the serpent was the good guy right? Theres some logic to that. Especially given the next question.
His commandments are righteous. He wants people to behave themselves in a holy manner, not in an evil manner. Weren't you a Christian before? God hates sin and the evil that people do.

Don't you remember that God said that once Adam and Eve ate of that tree that they would die? And then someone came along and "beguiled" Eve, and she ate of the tree of knowledge of good and evil, which brought death upon humanity. Meaning now everyone dies and many will go to eternal destruction.

Why are bad people described as snakes?
Winston wrote:
January 9th, 2021, 11:51 pm
4. Have u heard of Marcion Christianity? It was condemned by the early fathers and stamped out. It was similar to Gnosticism in that it said that the God that sent Jesus could not be the same God of the OT. This is blasphemy but makes a lot of sense when u look at it. Clearly Jesus had a very different personality than the OT God and said many things that contradicted what the OT God said. The same God could not do that. So the teaching of orthodox Christianity that Jesus was the God of the OT doesnt add up. Christians merely force fit them together but they clearly dont fit together when analyzed honestly.
Same God in the OT as in the NT. The NT says that He is the same yesterday, today and tomorrow, and it has many references back to the OT, even from Jesus Himself, not just written by Paul.

Jesus came to save the world: to die for the sins of humanity; to take their punishment as the Messiah, to rescue from eternal destruction those who believe in Him. He didn't come to punish the world at that time. That's what is going to happen next time He comes, but only for unbelieving reprobates. It's the Second Coming, and He is going to pour out His wrath upon reprobates. It just hasn't happened yet. That's what atheists and unbelievers forget.

Also there is no contradiction. There are just things that cannot be understood by many people, especially those who do not have the Holy Ghost giving them the interpretation because they do not believe in Jesus as the Christ.

You can also look at Psalm 110 which refers to both the Father and the Son, one by LORD and the other by Lord, which Jesus Himself references in the NT. See Matthew 22:42-45 for one instance.
Winston wrote:
January 9th, 2021, 11:51 pm
Alex believes this too, that the OT God was not the God of Jesus. And Kelly thinks the OT God was an annunaki god.
So there are greater testimonies about God than His Word, the Bible?
Winston wrote:
January 9th, 2021, 11:51 pm
5. Was Paul a Gnostic or did he corrupt Christianity? There seems to be a case for both views.
Neither is true. It's just that unbelievers can't accept it.
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Re: Gnosticism & The Lost Gospels - Secret Esoteric Teachings of Jesus For Initiates Only?

Post by Winston »

Because Neo. Obviously some people are not ready for the secret teachings of mystery schools and some are. People are not all the same. Simple religions like orthodox Christianity are simplified for the masses and is all they need. But for deeper intellectuals and adepts and truth seekers, there is more. That's why some qualify for adept knowledge and some don't. Not all knowledge is supposed to be for the masses. The masses can not understand it and it would be too complex for them. That's understandable and to be expected. The masses are MEDIOCRE, not enlightened or exceptional. They don't even seek higher truth even if they are capable of understanding it. Most are just interested in making a living and surviving and simple concepts. Not everything is for everybody.

Keep in mind that religion and the Bible is MAN'S interpretation of God, not God verbally dictating his word verbatim to a secretary. You guys keep forgetting that. Of course truth is in layers. And real truth must be EXPERIENCED, it is not intellectual. You can memorize all the books in the world, but without experiential knowledge, you don't have true knowledge. Many great sages have said that.

I'm sorry Neo but you seem to know nothing about esotericism or mystery schools. Because in your mind only fundamentalist Christianity (which was invented in the 1800s and is NOT what the original Christians or followers of Jesus believed) is true and all else must be ignored. Not true of course. But that's YOUR mindset.

Even in Kabbalah, traditionally a person was not allowed to learn it until he got to age 40. There was a reason for that. Not everyone can understand higher truth or spiritual knowledge or esoteric teachings.
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Re: Gnosticism & The Lost Gospels - Secret Esoteric Teachings of Jesus For Initiates Only?

Post by Neo »

Winston wrote:
January 11th, 2021, 3:31 am
Because Neo. Obviously some people are not ready for the secret teachings of mystery schools and some are. People are not all the same. Simple religions like orthodox Christianity are simplified for the masses and is all they need. But for deeper intellectuals and adepts and truth seekers, there is more. That's why some qualify for adept knowledge and some don't. Not all knowledge is supposed to be for the masses. The masses can not understand it and it would be too complex for them. That's understandable and to be expected. The masses are MEDIOCRE, not enlightened or exceptional. They don't even seek higher truth even if they are capable of understanding it. Most are just interested in making a living and surviving and simple concepts. Not everything is for everybody.

Keep in mind that religion and the Bible is MAN'S interpretation of God, not God verbally dictating his word verbatim to a secretary. You guys keep forgetting that. Of course truth is in layers. And real truth must be EXPERIENCED, it is not intellectual. You can memorize all the books in the world, but without experiential knowledge, you don't have true knowledge. Many great sages have said that.

I'm sorry Neo but you seem to know nothing about esotericism or mystery schools. Because in your mind only fundamentalist Christianity (which was invented in the 1800s and is NOT what the original Christians or followers of Jesus believed) is true and all else must be ignored. Not true of course. But that's YOUR mindset.

Even in Kabbalah, traditionally a person was not allowed to learn it until he got to age 40. There was a reason for that. Not everyone can understand higher truth or spiritual knowledge or esoteric teachings.
I can say one thing, Winston. Fundamentalist Christianity has more wisdom than the false Christianity of Gnosticism, the so called mystery schools, Freemasonry, Theosophy and New Age combined. :)
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Re: Gnosticism & The Lost Gospels - Secret Esoteric Teachings of Jesus For Initiates Only?

Post by HenryGeorge »

Neo wrote:
January 11th, 2021, 3:04 pm
Winston wrote:
January 11th, 2021, 3:31 am
Because Neo. Obviously some people are not ready for the secret teachings of mystery schools and some are. People are not all the same. Simple religions like orthodox Christianity are simplified for the masses and is all they need. But for deeper intellectuals and adepts and truth seekers, there is more. That's why some qualify for adept knowledge and some don't. Not all knowledge is supposed to be for the masses. The masses can not understand it and it would be too complex for them. That's understandable and to be expected. The masses are MEDIOCRE, not enlightened or exceptional. They don't even seek higher truth even if they are capable of understanding it. Most are just interested in making a living and surviving and simple concepts. Not everything is for everybody.

Keep in mind that religion and the Bible is MAN'S interpretation of God, not God verbally dictating his word verbatim to a secretary. You guys keep forgetting that. Of course truth is in layers. And real truth must be EXPERIENCED, it is not intellectual. You can memorize all the books in the world, but without experiential knowledge, you don't have true knowledge. Many great sages have said that.

I'm sorry Neo but you seem to know nothing about esotericism or mystery schools. Because in your mind only fundamentalist Christianity (which was invented in the 1800s and is NOT what the original Christians or followers of Jesus believed) is true and all else must be ignored. Not true of course. But that's YOUR mindset.

Even in Kabbalah, traditionally a person was not allowed to learn it until he got to age 40. There was a reason for that. Not everyone can understand higher truth or spiritual knowledge or esoteric teachings.
I can say one thing, Winston. Fundamentalist Christianity has more wisdom than the false Christianity of Gnosticism, the so called mystery schools, Freemasonry, Theosophy and New Age combined. :)
Exactly, Neo...
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Re: Gnosticism & The Lost Gospels - Secret Esoteric Teachings of Jesus For Initiates Only?

Post by Winston »

Check out these "Banned from the Bible" documentaries on History Channel. They are very interesting and shed light on what the lost Gospels have revealed, which have been forgotten and suppressed because they didn't make it into the political canon of orthodox Christianity.



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Re: Gnosticism & The Lost Gospels - Secret Esoteric Teachings of Jesus For Initiates Only?

Post by Winston »

Neo wrote:
January 11th, 2021, 3:04 pm
Winston wrote:
January 11th, 2021, 3:31 am
Because Neo. Obviously some people are not ready for the secret teachings of mystery schools and some are. People are not all the same. Simple religions like orthodox Christianity are simplified for the masses and is all they need. But for deeper intellectuals and adepts and truth seekers, there is more. That's why some qualify for adept knowledge and some don't. Not all knowledge is supposed to be for the masses. The masses can not understand it and it would be too complex for them. That's understandable and to be expected. The masses are MEDIOCRE, not enlightened or exceptional. They don't even seek higher truth even if they are capable of understanding it. Most are just interested in making a living and surviving and simple concepts. Not everything is for everybody.

Keep in mind that religion and the Bible is MAN'S interpretation of God, not God verbally dictating his word verbatim to a secretary. You guys keep forgetting that. Of course truth is in layers. And real truth must be EXPERIENCED, it is not intellectual. You can memorize all the books in the world, but without experiential knowledge, you don't have true knowledge. Many great sages have said that.

I'm sorry Neo but you seem to know nothing about esotericism or mystery schools. Because in your mind only fundamentalist Christianity (which was invented in the 1800s and is NOT what the original Christians or followers of Jesus believed) is true and all else must be ignored. Not true of course. But that's YOUR mindset.

Even in Kabbalah, traditionally a person was not allowed to learn it until he got to age 40. There was a reason for that. Not everyone can understand higher truth or spiritual knowledge or esoteric teachings.
I can say one thing, Winston. Fundamentalist Christianity has more wisdom than the false Christianity of Gnosticism, the so called mystery schools, Freemasonry, Theosophy and New Age combined. :)
Not if you use your head and think about it @Neo. Look at the choices:

1. An all powerful all good God creates a paradise, but allows Satan to exist and enter his paradise to ruin everything by tempting Eve to eat the forbidden fruit, thus bringing untold amounts of evil, suffering and injustice in this world. And allowing billions throughout history suffer for it, when they did not choose to eat the forbidden fruit, all on account of Eve's sin? Especially since Eve's sin was very minor and only involved eating a piece of fruit such as an apple? WTF? What kind of perfect creator or designer allows a small flaw to ruin everything? No computer programmer would be considered good if he allowed a small flaw to ruin a whole program. Uh huh. Makes perfect sense. (sarcastic)

2. We live in a prison matrix run by a demiurge who uses it as an energy extraction matrix. Which is true because this world is in fact an enslavement machine where people are either slaves or slavemasters, and we are all enslaved to money. To get our minds off our enslavement, the system gives us lies and distractions such as democracy, voting, entertainment, propaganda, telling us we live in a free country, etc. So we live in an enslavement system filled with lots of mind control to keep the population going. Yes that is consistent with the data and the world we see around us. We live in a control system. Any aware person can see that. Including you.

Which makes more sense? Obviously #2. So yes, that's why many freethinkers and spiritual seekers are going toward Gnosticism. It makes more sense and better fits the data. It's obvious. There's no comparison. Fundamentalist religion certainly doesn't make sense and has countless problems and contradictions which you can never explain away. But you don't care, all you care about it dogma, because you are a dogmatist Neo, and you know it. You don't care about truth, facts, logic, etc. All you care about is CONFORMING TO DOGMA. That's what you are, plain and simple. No offense. A spade is a spade.

You keep forgetting that the Bible is MAN'S interpretation of the divine. It is not God dictating every word through a secretary. You keep FORGETTING that. This applies to the canonized gospels and to the Gnostic gospels too. They are all man's interpretation of the divine and God. They all contain some truth, a mix of metaphorical truth and literal truth, a mix of fiction and history, a mix of channeled info and bias, and a mix of political agendas too. The Bible is a potpourri of all those things. Reasonable people know this. You can't accept what's reasonable because you're a dogmatist.

Remember the winners write history. We all know that. In this case, the Catholic Church and the Council of Nicea put together by Constantine, determined which gospels and scriptures were canonized. Do you believe that Constantine or the Council of Nicea was infallible? Were they God? lol. Of course not. Yet you act like they are and put your faith and bank on their infallibility. You bank on God working through them to pick the right books of the Bible. Everything hinges on that. That's your core problem. That's where you go wrong.

Just because the winners write history and the losers get suppressed and erased, doesn't mean the truth is on the side of the winners and the losers don't have a case. Remember the Gnostics were about achieving direct gnosis, which is the direct experience of God. They weren't seeking power like the canonized Christians were. Does that mean power and politics equals truth? Of course not. Yet that's what YOU are assuming, you just don't see it, because you are blind to your fallacies.

What you keep forgetting Neo is that what you believe is the CANON created by those who created it with political agendas. The Gnostics were sages and aesthetics. They were not interested in political power. That's why they didn't have an army to conquer Rome or control the monarchy. So your version of the Gospel came from power and politics, not from truth or God himself. That's the KEY fact you keep forgetting.

Another KEY point you keep forgetting is that there was never a "true Christianity" that was uncorrupted over time that all the original Christians believed in. From the get to, Christianity was splintered into many different groups that believed different things. If it wasn't for the Catholic Church that codified the official doctrines and dogmas of Christianity, Christianity would have been like Hinduism, a potpourri of many different groups, all of which are acceptable without dogmas or canons.

One more thing. In the gospel of Mark it does say that Jesus told his disciples one thing but the masses another, implying that he had different teachings for his inner circle vs the teachings for the masses (such as you). It's the exoteric vs the esoteric. This implies that the historical Jesus may have taught Gnosticism to his disciples. See below.

https://www.pbs.org/wgbh/pages/frontlin ... /mark.html
One of the peculiar features of Mark's gospel in its presentation of Jesus is that, when Jesus teaches he often actually conceals the significance of his own words from the the popular audiences, and directs it only to his own disciples. Everyone will recognize that Jesus teaches in parables. But, in Mark's gospel, when Jesus teaches in parables, it says explicitly that he does so in order to keep people from understanding his messages. He teaches in these metaphors and in these word pictures so that people will not understand. It's a very different understanding of Jesus than what we might have assumed, traditionally, I think....
Also Neo, if you look up lost gospels such as the Gospel of Thomas or the Gospel of Mary Magdalene, they contain some Gnostic teachings. They even say that churches are not necessary and that one can have a direct experience of God without any priest or church or organized religion. These are Gnostic style teachings.

Also keep in mind that even the earliest copies of the canonized four gospels that we have are all from 150 AD. So it's not clear which gospels were earliest and original and which weren't. Besides, all the gospels were written from stories about Jesus that were circulating around via word of mouth. This includes the canonized four gospels too. So it's very problematic and unclear as to what is original and what isn't. It's all muddied and debatable.
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Re: Gnosticism & The Lost Gospels - Secret Esoteric Teachings of Jesus For Initiates Only?

Post by Winston »

@Neo some Bible verses that imply Gnosticism or Esoteric Christianity given to an inner circle of followers (and not to the masses such as you sorry lol):

https://beezone.com/adi-da/esoteric_christianity.html

Mark 4: “Then when they were by themselves, his close followers and the twelve asked about the parables, and he told them: ‘The secret of the kingdom of God has been given to you. But to those who do not know the secret, everything remains in parables, so that, seeing they may see, and not perceive; and hearing they may hear, and not understand lest haply they should turn again, and it should be forgiven them.'” “So he taught them his message with many parables such as their minds could take in. He did not speak to them at all without using parables, although in private he explained everything to his disciples.” [Phillips translation]

Matthew 13: “The man who has ears to hear should use them” “At this the disciples approached him and asked, ‘Why do you talk to them in parables? “‘Because you have been given the chance to understand the secrets of the kingdom of Heaven,’ replied Jesus, ‘but they have not. For when a man has something, more is given to him till he has plenty. But if he has nothing even his nothing will be taken away from him. This is why I speak to them in these parables; because they go through life with their eyes open, but see nothing, and with their ears open, but understand nothing of what they hear.”‘ [Phillips translation]

1 Corinthians 2:6-15: “But we speak the wisdom of God in a mystery, even the hidden wisdom, which God ordained before the world unto our glory: which none of the princes of this world knew. “We interpret what is spiritual in spiritual language. The unspiritual man rejects these truths of the Spirit of God; to him they are ‘sheer folly,’ he cannot understand them. And the reason is, that they must be read with the spiritual eye. The spiritual man, again, can read the meaning of everything; and yet no one can read what he is.”

Clement of Alexandria (150-220 C.E.) “The Lord . . . allowed us to communicate of those divine Mysteries, and of that holy light, to those who are able to receive them. He did not certainly disclose to the many what did not belong to the many; but to the few to whom He knew that they belonged, who were capable of receiving and being moulded according to them. But secret things are entrusted to speech, not to writing, as is the case with God.”“Many things, I well know, have escaped us, through length of time, that have dropped away unwritten.”
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Re: Gnosticism & The Lost Gospels - Secret Esoteric Teachings of Jesus For Initiates Only?

Post by Winston »

Neo, these paragraphs below explain how Constantine and the Catholic Church suppressed all alternative forms of Christianity to unify the empire for POLITICAL POWER, not truth! What this means is that YOUR version of Christianity was canonized for POWER and POLITICS, NOT TRUTH! That's what you keep missing and forgetting and ignoring!

https://beezone.com/adi-da/esoteric_christianity.html

The Triumph of Pseudo-Christianity

If you watch a TV history of Christianity or read a Protestant or Roman Catholic account of the early church, Christianity’s becoming the official religion of the Roman state during Constantine’s reign is considered a great victory. The only measure of success for these moderns is whether or not a tradition triumphed over all its competitors. Never mind what distorting of the original message had taken place or what atrocities the Church committed. If a particular religion came out on top, it’s to be considered the best.

On the contrary, the formal religion that became known as the Holy Roman Church was and is nothing but a vast repository of false teachings and practices. At the present time, orthodox Christianity, in all its Catholic, Eastern Orthodox, and Protestant guises, is a horrible deformity of Jesus’s original teachings. Constantine presentint the Nicene heresy for Jesus' blessing

“The Emperor Constantine who, having become a convert to Christianity, soon made his new faith the official religion of the Roman Empire, which he ruled from ancient Byzantium, renamed Constantinople. And so, at about 320 A.D. the Church not only came to glorious power but was given a clearly God-sent opportunity to revenge itself on the descendants of those who had persecuted it for almost three hundred years. Unleashing a reign of terror on those pagans who stubbornly refused the new faith, Constantine and the Church waded deep in blood and apparently enjoyed the experience, for the lions enjoyed pagans as much as they had Christians and the crosses now carried different victims.” - Donovan Joyce. The Jesus Scroll

Whereas the people Jesus befriended were the poor and outcast of society, the bureaucratized “church” began to direct its attentions to the wealthy and politically powerful. Already by the end of the first century C.E., Christians in Rome included members of the Emperor’s household. As Paul, Clement, Marcion, Valentinus, and Origen made clear, the essence of Jesus’s teaching was the esoteric initiation of a select number into the mysteries of the “new being.” Within a hundred years Jesus’s original teachings had been perverted into an ecclesiastical power system: the “triumph” of pseudo-Christianity.

“Christianity, which had been the religion of a community of equal brothers, without hierarchy or bureaucracy, became ‘the Church,’ the reflected image of the absolute monarchy of the Roman Empire.” - Erich Fromm. “The Dogma of Christ

The counterfeit interpretation of Jesus’ teachings became the official, orthodox dogma and the congregations (those called together) became a monolithic “church,” a sacerdotal monstrosity supported by the corrupt Roman emperor Constantine. Constantine had adopted Christianity merely to provide support for his conquest and rule, so he was furious that there were squabbling factions within his adopted faith.

The Nicene Heresy and the Canon

So, in 325 C.E. three hundred and twelve bishops were ordered by Emperor Constantine to work out a creed that would put a stop to theological bickering. The emperor himself, dressed in a purple gown and with a silver diadem, opened the council. The Council of Nicea made it clear that Christianity was to be clearly distinguished from the pagan Platonic heresy. All Christians were henceforth required to believe that Jesus Christ was of the same substance as God (in other words, a god) and only Christ could bring about humankind’s salvation through a person’s belief in his sacrifice for their sins. As the doctrinal orthodoxy decreed by such Councils as Nicea became the official ideology of the Romanized church, the genuine teachers of Jesus’ original message of transformation found it necessary to go underground. This hidden tradition is what we now call Esoteric Christianity.

“Catholicism has long been hostile to the notion of any spiritual power or illumination apart from what is conferred by its own rites. The official view is that the sacraments are both necessary and sufficient for salvation; any talk of higher truths or initiatic knowledge, however circumspect or deferential to Catholic doctrine, is considered subversive. The church tends to regard the esoteric inner circle not as a deeper dimension of the external church but as an inimical fifth column.” - Richard Smoley, Inner Christianity

Even though the Holy Roman Church dictated what dogmas were official, there was still the difficulty of a large number of writings about Jesus which painted very different pictures of him. As the Roman Empire took over the outer, distorted husks of Jesus’ teachings and turned the church into a tyranny, it selected only those writings which would support its autocratic power. In the fourth century C.E., the Roman Catholic Church decreed which books would constitute the Official Scriptures–the Canon. At that point, the books outside the Official Scriptures were known as non-canonical scriptures.

Clement of Alexandria, Marcion, Valentinus, Origen, and other genuine followers of Jesus’ teaching created their own “Gospels,” the good news 5 about Jesus, selecting writings which they felt were central to the original teachings of their master. They included material which was not in the orthodox New Testament (as the official scripture came to be called). During the nineteenth and twentieth centuries, a large number 6 of non-canonical Christian writings were discovered in the Middle East. Many of these writings come from the non-orthodox tradition of Christianity, especially from the Gnostic strain. If we are to understand the esoteric tradition in Christianity, it is essential that we take into consideration these extra-canonical sources.

“The Lord did everything in a mystery. . . He said, ‘I came to make the things below like the things above, 7 and the things outside like those inside. I came to unite them.'” - The Gospel of Philip (Nag Hammadi Library)

Many parts of the New Testament are dogmas added by later sectarians to support their personal prejudices. For example, many references to Jesus’ actions as fulfillment of the Old Testament prophecies were added by persons trying to prove that Jesus was the Jewish Messiah-King. As we examine the New Testament discerningly we discover elements which do not ring true, certain supposed “miracles” and mythological events that cast Jesus in an unfavorable light. It is our responsibility to determine what is genuine and what is counterfeit in the early Christian writings, just as we must discriminate in regard to all teachings. Some of the New Testament and other early writings constitute a record of spiritual experiences which are reproducible in our lives. This is especially true of the central teaching of all these writings: rebirth into a higher consciousness.

“The real Gnosis. . . is a mystical knowledge and experience transcending that appearance of things which the ordinary individual accepts as the only ‘reality.'” - William Kingsland. The Gnosis or Ancient Wisdomin the Christian Scriptures
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Re: Gnosticism & The Lost Gospels - Secret Esoteric Teachings of Jesus For Initiates Only?

Post by Winston »

Neo wrote:
January 10th, 2021, 8:23 am
Winston wrote:
January 9th, 2021, 11:51 pm
Ive been studying Gnosticism the last few days. I got a few questions.

1. First did Gnosticism come before orthodox Christianity or after? The Christian scholars say it originated in 2nd century so its not original Christianity. But gnostics say the original Jesus taught gnosticism. And that gnosticism goes back to Plato. Whats the truth? Im confused. Are the roots of Gnosticism ancient? Or did it begin in 2nd century in Alexandria?
It's false Christianity. It has nothing to do with God. Atheists and others wish to believe it does though. A good understanding of Christianity is all anyone needs to realize that the Gnostic Gospels are not Christian at all.
Winston wrote:
January 9th, 2021, 11:51 pm

3. Why is both Lucifer and Jesus described as the morning star in the bible? Does that mean they are the same person or connected? Could jesus be the serpent that tried to liberate adam and eve from ignorance and enslavement? This is all very confusing.
Jesus is the Bright and Morning Star: See Revelation 22:16 KJV.
The other person you mentioned is the "son of the morning": See Isaiah 14:12 KJV.
Winston wrote:
January 9th, 2021, 11:51 pm
However since the OT God was clearly a dictator and control freak and vengeful and demanded obedience without question, it stands to say that anyone opposing that including a serpent may have had good intentions right? So it is possible that the serpent was the good guy right? Theres some logic to that. Especially given the next question.
His commandments are righteous. He wants people to behave themselves in a holy manner, not in an evil manner. Weren't you a Christian before? God hates sin and the evil that people do.

Don't you remember that God said that once Adam and Eve ate of that tree that they would die? And then someone came along and "beguiled" Eve, and she ate of the tree of knowledge of good and evil, which brought death upon humanity. Meaning now everyone dies and many will go to eternal destruction.

Why are bad people described as snakes?
Winston wrote:
January 9th, 2021, 11:51 pm
4. Have u heard of Marcion Christianity? It was condemned by the early fathers and stamped out. It was similar to Gnosticism in that it said that the God that sent Jesus could not be the same God of the OT. This is blasphemy but makes a lot of sense when u look at it. Clearly Jesus had a very different personality than the OT God and said many things that contradicted what the OT God said. The same God could not do that. So the teaching of orthodox Christianity that Jesus was the God of the OT doesnt add up. Christians merely force fit them together but they clearly dont fit together when analyzed honestly.
Same God in the OT as in the NT. The NT says that He is the same yesterday, today and tomorrow, and it has many references back to the OT, even from Jesus Himself, not just written by Paul.

Jesus came to save the world: to die for the sins of humanity; to take their punishment as the Messiah, to rescue from eternal destruction those who believe in Him. He didn't come to punish the world at that time. That's what is going to happen next time He comes, but only for unbelieving reprobates. It's the Second Coming, and He is going to pour out His wrath upon reprobates. It just hasn't happened yet. That's what atheists and unbelievers forget.

Also there is no contradiction. There are just things that cannot be understood by many people, especially those who do not have the Holy Ghost giving them the interpretation because they do not believe in Jesus as the Christ.

You can also look at Psalm 110 which refers to both the Father and the Son, one by LORD and the other by Lord, which Jesus Himself references in the NT. See Matthew 22:42-45 for one instance.
Winston wrote:
January 9th, 2021, 11:51 pm
Alex believes this too, that the OT God was not the God of Jesus. And Kelly thinks the OT God was an annunaki god.
So there are greater testimonies about God than His Word, the Bible?
Winston wrote:
January 9th, 2021, 11:51 pm
5. Was Paul a Gnostic or did he corrupt Christianity? There seems to be a case for both views.
Neither is true. It's just that unbelievers can't accept it.
Who determines what's true and false? You? The Catholic Church? Constantine? LOL

Keep in mind that your version of Christianity is the canonized version created by POWER and POLITICS, not by truth or sages. See the previous posts.

Deceitful people are described by snakes because snakes are vilified in Western culture. In India and China snakes are not vilified. They symbolize the cycle of rebirth and transformation. In dreams, snakes symbolize sexual desire.

Sorry but anyone looking at the OT and NT can see that they aren't the same. The OT God is harsh, brutal and a dictator who demands strict obedience. Jesus is forgiving and wiser and deeper and tries to get you to question things and think deeper. The God of the OT never did that. If you read the words of the Lord in the OT and of Jesus, they aren't in any way alike. Totally different. Your version of canonized Christianity tries to force the OT and NT to be the same. If you look at them with objective eyes without bias, you'd see what I mean.

The OT also predicts a warrior messiah, not a peaceful one that dies on the cross. Everyone agrees on that, even Christian scholars agree with that. That's a key difference you can't escape. Everyone knows the followers of Jesus expected a warrior messiah that would conquer Rome and liberate the Israelites.

The references to the OT by Jesus could have been made up. That's why Marcion only considered the Gospel of Luke to be legit.

You also forget that the Trinity doctrine is not original Christianity. It was established in the Council of Nicea by Constantine. The original followers did not believe in the Trinity. No one would say that the Son of God and the Father God are the same thing. Everyone knows that a son is a son and a father is a father. They aren't interchangeable. That makes no sense. But the Church could not claim that there were 3 Gods and become polytheist, but they had to deify Christ too, so the only solution was the Trinity. It was awkward and made no sense, but politically and theologically necessary to establish absolute authority.

If the Holy Ghost is in all true believers, then why do they all have different interpretations of the Bible? Gotcha!

"Lord" is an arbitrary term. A butler could call his employer "Lord" too.

You keep forgetting that the Bible and all the lost gospels too, are MAN'S interpretation of God, not God dictating his word verbatim to a secretary. That's why they say different things and often contradict. Think about this. If the Bible is God's word verbatim, then why are there different writing styles by each author? A writing style is unique, like a fingerprint. How can there be different styles if the author is God and every word is from God? That makes no sense and is impossible to resolve.
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Re: Gnosticism & The Lost Gospels - Secret Esoteric Teachings of Jesus For Initiates Only?

Post by Neo »

Winston wrote:
January 14th, 2021, 1:07 pm

Not if you use your head and think about it @Neo. Look at the choices:

1. An all powerful all good God creates a paradise, but allows Satan to exist and enter his paradise to ruin everything by tempting Eve to eat the forbidden fruit, thus bringing untold amounts of evil, suffering and injustice in this world. And allowing billions throughout history suffer for it, when they did not choose to eat the forbidden fruit, all on account of Eve's sin? Especially since Eve's sin was very minor and only involved eating a piece of fruit such as an apple? WTF? What kind of perfect creator or designer allows a small flaw to ruin everything? No computer programmer would be considered good if he allowed a small flaw to ruin a whole program. Uh huh. Makes perfect sense. (sarcastic)
You claim to love truth and knowledge, yet I have responded to you on this very topic of # 1 many times.

It's not as simple as eating a forbidden fruit just because. It is because God hates sin and evil. The Tree of the Knowledge of Good AND Evil. Beforehand they were only able to do good. After eating of it, they were then capable of doing evil.

Evil is what ruined paradise. Because the penalty for sin is death.

Why is this explanation insufficient for you?

Also now only the good souls who are worthy of God and eternal life get to be saved and exalted. Whereas the evil doers who love sin will be punished with everlasting punishment.

In other words, there are simply evil people who must be sifted out in this life and then punished.

Now every man is rewarded according to his own works.
Winston wrote:
January 14th, 2021, 1:07 pm
2. We live in a prison matrix run by a demiurge who uses it as an energy extraction matrix. Which is true because this world is in fact an enslavement machine where people are either slaves or slavemasters, and we are all enslaved to money. To get our minds off our enslavement, the system gives us lies and distractions such as democracy, voting, entertainment, propaganda, telling us we live in a free country, etc. So we live in an enslavement system filled with lots of mind control to keep the population going. Yes that is consistent with the data and the world we see around us. We live in a control system. Any aware person can see that. Including you.
The good are servants of God and will be exalted to eternal life. The evildoers are prisoners of evil and will be promoted and rewarded with eternal death.

As for being enslaved to money, God is against usury. You love reading the truth. That is in the Bible. Even so much as charging 1% interest is against His Law.

As for knowing the truth, Jesus says that certain of His followers will know the truth, which sets them free.
Winston wrote:
January 14th, 2021, 1:07 pm
Which makes more sense? Obviously #2. So yes, that's why many freethinkers and spiritual seekers are going toward Gnosticism. It makes more sense and better fits the data. It's obvious. There's no comparison. Fundamentalist religion certainly doesn't make sense and has countless problems and contradictions which you can never explain away. But you don't care, all you care about it dogma, because you are a dogmatist Neo, and you know it. You don't care about truth, facts, logic, etc. All you care about is CONFORMING TO DOGMA. That's what you are, plain and simple. No offense. A spade is a spade.
Contradictions only for those who don't understand it.

Winston wrote:
January 14th, 2021, 1:07 pm
You keep forgetting that the Bible is MAN'S interpretation of the divine. It is not God dictating every word through a secretary. You keep FORGETTING that. This applies to the canonized gospels and to the Gnostic gospels too. They are all man's interpretation of the divine and God. They all contain some truth, a mix of metaphorical truth and literal truth, a mix of fiction and history, a mix of channeled info and bias, and a mix of political agendas too. The Bible is a potpourri of all those things. Reasonable people know this. You can't accept what's reasonable because you're a dogmatist.
This simply denies the power of God. Some people don't believe in God's power. I believe in His power and His Word.

Winston wrote:
January 14th, 2021, 1:07 pm
Remember the winners write history. We all know that. In this case, the Catholic Church and the Council of Nicea put together by Constantine, determined which gospels and scriptures were canonized. Do you believe that Constantine or the Council of Nicea was infallible? Were they God? lol. Of course not. Yet you act like they are and put your faith and bank on their infallibility. You bank on God working through them to pick the right books of the Bible. Everything hinges on that. That's your core problem. That's where you go wrong.
Certainly they were not God, but God can use people as He wishes, even to preserve His Word.

I've written this before, but for those who read the Bible, it is clear that the Bible itself is against Catholicism. Why would a Catholic Church promote the Bible, when the Bible teaches against its practices?

The Bible belongs to God, not to the Catholic church.
Winston wrote:
January 14th, 2021, 1:07 pm
Just because the winners write history and the losers get suppressed and erased, doesn't mean the truth is on the side of the winners and the losers don't have a case. Remember the Gnostics were about achieving direct gnosis, which is the direct experience of God. They weren't seeking power like the canonized Christians were. Does that mean power and politics equals truth? Of course not. Yet that's what YOU are assuming, you just don't see it, because you are blind to your fallacies.
Certainly the truth is not entirely on the side of Catholicism, as I have written before at length but for some reason nobody notices.

Also, perhaps Constantine had certain goals in mind. However, Peter and Paul had no such goals. Their goals were to spread the Gospel. The true one. Nothing political about it.
Winston wrote:
January 14th, 2021, 1:07 pm
What you keep forgetting Neo is that what you believe is the CANON created by those who created it with political agendas. The Gnostics were sages and aesthetics. They were not interested in political power. That's why they didn't have an army to conquer Rome or control the monarchy. So your version of the Gospel came from power and politics, not from truth or God himself. That's the KEY fact you keep forgetting.
Neither were James, John, Peter, Mark, Matthew, Luke, Jude or Paul. There are greater things than this world, and this is one of the fundamental teachings of Christianity, that this world is temporary, not the final destination, not the final home. Christians, especially Apostles, are looking forward to eternity.

They all knew that eventually God is going to burn up this whole world.

Paul also writes about being a good soldier and not entangling ourselves in the affairs of this life.

Besides that, God has already explained in Revelation that we are to be kings and priests but in a different time.
Winston wrote:
January 14th, 2021, 1:07 pm
Another KEY point you keep forgetting is that there was never a "true Christianity" that was uncorrupted over time that all the original Christians believed in. From the get to, Christianity was splintered into many different groups that believed different things. If it wasn't for the Catholic Church that codified the official doctrines and dogmas of Christianity, Christianity would have been like Hinduism, a potpourri of many different groups, all of which are acceptable without dogmas or canons.
Nope. It just means there were false prophets from the beginning who were teaching heresy, who preach lies that distract people from the truth of the gospel.
Winston wrote:
January 14th, 2021, 1:07 pm
One more thing. In the gospel of Mark it does say that Jesus told his disciples one thing but the masses another, implying that he had different teachings for his inner circle vs the teachings for the masses (such as you). It's the exoteric vs the esoteric. This implies that the historical Jesus may have taught Gnosticism to his disciples. See below.

https://www.pbs.org/wgbh/pages/frontlin ... /mark.html
One of the peculiar features of Mark's gospel in its presentation of Jesus is that, when Jesus teaches he often actually conceals the significance of his own words from the the popular audiences, and directs it only to his own disciples. Everyone will recognize that Jesus teaches in parables. But, in Mark's gospel, when Jesus teaches in parables, it says explicitly that he does so in order to keep people from understanding his messages. He teaches in these metaphors and in these word pictures so that people will not understand. It's a very different understanding of Jesus than what we might have assumed, traditionally, I think....
That's a misinterpretation on your part.

First, if you continue reading the chapter, He explains the parable. So it isn't so secret anymore if He explains it right there.

Second, this explains the difference between the saved or the to be saved person and the reprobate. Reprobates will never understand well enough to get saved. Whereas the saved can and will and do get saved when they hear.
Winston wrote:
January 14th, 2021, 1:07 pm
Also Neo, if you look up lost gospels such as the Gospel of Thomas or the Gospel of Mary Magdalene, they contain some Gnostic teachings. They even say that churches are not necessary and that one can have a direct experience of God without any priest or church or organized religion. These are Gnostic style teachings.

Also keep in mind that even the earliest copies of the canonized four gospels that we have are all from 150 AD. So it's not clear which gospels were earliest and original and which weren't. Besides, all the gospels were written from stories about Jesus that were circulating around via word of mouth. This includes the canonized four gospels too. So it's very problematic and unclear as to what is original and what isn't. It's all muddied and debatable.
It's obvious to believers which gospels are inspired by the Holy Ghost and which ones are not. Unbelievers and atheists simply think everything is the same and can be combined into one. But believers can read it and see that the Gnostic gospels are a poor imitation.

Also, I don't know why people are listening to scholars about when books were written. No scholar of today was around to take note. It's just them talking and making guess-timations.
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Re: Gnosticism & The Lost Gospels - Secret Esoteric Teachings of Jesus For Initiates Only?

Post by Neo »

Winston wrote:
January 14th, 2021, 1:58 pm

Who determines what's true and false? You? The Catholic Church? Constantine? LOL
The truth speaks for itself.

Winston wrote:
January 14th, 2021, 1:58 pm
Deceitful people are described by snakes because snakes are vilified in Western culture.
That's really all you need to know, but still, can you see it?
Winston wrote:
January 14th, 2021, 1:58 pm
In India and China snakes are not vilified. They symbolize the cycle of rebirth and transformation. In dreams, snakes symbolize sexual desire.
Western culture which has Christianity. Eastern culture has false religions that deify snakes, cows, etc.

Winston wrote:
January 14th, 2021, 1:58 pm
Sorry but anyone looking at the OT and NT can see that they aren't the same. The OT God is harsh, brutal and a dictator who demands strict obedience. Jesus is forgiving and wiser and deeper and tries to get you to question things and think deeper. The God of the OT never did that. If you read the words of the Lord in the OT and of Jesus, they aren't in any way alike. Totally different. Your version of canonized Christianity tries to force the OT and NT to be the same. If you look at them with objective eyes without bias, you'd see what I mean.

The OT also predicts a warrior messiah, not a peaceful one that dies on the cross. Everyone agrees on that, even Christian scholars agree with that. That's a key difference you can't escape. Everyone knows the followers of Jesus expected a warrior messiah that would conquer Rome and liberate the Israelites.

The references to the OT by Jesus could have been made up. That's why Marcion only considered the Gospel of Luke to be legit.
People often have misconceived notions and misperceptions.

The purpose of Christ's First Coming was not to free the Jews from Rome or even to conquer. His purpose was to save people from their sins so they don't perish in eternity. That was His purpose.

Anyone who thinks He was to be a warrior on His First Coming has misinterpreted scripture and the whole purpose of having a Messiah, and probably doesn't know much of why people need to be saved or what they need to be saved from or what the Messiah's job is.

The Messiah's job is to save people from their sins, from eternal damnation, by dying for all those who believe that He is the Messiah, the Christ, the Savior, the Son of God.

God is going to take certain actions against sinners, and much of that will happen at the Second Coming. The First and Second Comings have different purposes.
Winston wrote:
January 14th, 2021, 1:58 pm
You also forget that the Trinity doctrine is not original Christianity. It was established in the Council of Nicea by Constantine. The original followers did not believe in the Trinity. No one would say that the Son of God and the Father God are the same thing. Everyone knows that a son is a son and a father is a father. They aren't interchangeable. That makes no sense. But the Church could not claim that there were 3 Gods and become polytheist, but they had to deify Christ too, so the only solution was the Trinity. It was awkward and made no sense, but politically and theologically necessary to establish absolute authority.
God is three in one: The Father, the Son who is subject to the Father, and the Holy Ghost who is His Spirit.
The nature of God is a great mystery, just as thinking about the nature of eternity before there was an earth.
Winston wrote:
January 14th, 2021, 1:58 pm
If the Holy Ghost is in all true believers, then why do they all have different interpretations of the Bible? Gotcha!
Because it is according to God's gift. Not everyone is rewarded the same way to the same level in everything. Neither does everyone have the same understanding in everything, but the basics are known for those who study.

Besides that, most people aren't saved, even among those who think they are.
Winston wrote:
January 14th, 2021, 1:58 pm
"Lord" is an arbitrary term. A butler could call his employer "Lord" too.

You keep forgetting that the Bible and all the lost gospels too, are MAN'S interpretation of God, not God dictating his word verbatim to a secretary. That's why they say different things and often contradict. Think about this. If the Bible is God's word verbatim, then why are there different writing styles by each author? A writing style is unique, like a fingerprint. How can there be different styles if the author is God and every word is from God? That makes no sense and is impossible to resolve.
A different word choice helps with understanding.
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Re: Gnosticism & The Lost Gospels - Secret Esoteric Teachings of Jesus For Initiates Only?

Post by Neo »

Winston wrote:
January 14th, 2021, 1:22 pm
@Neo some Bible verses that imply Gnosticism or Esoteric Christianity given to an inner circle of followers (and not to the masses such as you sorry lol):

1 Corinthians 2:6-15: “But we speak the wisdom of God in a mystery, even the hidden wisdom, which God ordained before the world unto our glory: which none of the princes of this world knew. “We interpret what is spiritual in spiritual language. The unspiritual man rejects these truths of the Spirit of God; to him they are ‘sheer folly,’ he cannot understand them. And the reason is, that they must be read with the spiritual eye. The spiritual man, again, can read the meaning of everything; and yet no one can read what he is.”
This actually explains what I have been writing all along. It is a gift of God through the Holy Ghost. It basically says it is understood through the spirit. The unspiritual man as the unbeliever or atheist or reprobate doesn't understand the things of God, nor can he, because he is not saved.
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Re: Gnosticism & The Lost Gospels - Secret Esoteric Teachings of Jesus For Initiates Only?

Post by Winston »

Neo,
Let's get to the core issues. All you are doing is repeating fundamentalist dogma and not thinking or using any logic. It's very rigid and you lack the ability to think or reason. Dogma blinds you and you don't even realize it. Let me ask you some core questions.

1. Aren't you contradicting yourself when you say you agree that the Catholic Church corrupted Christianity and made it political, but then you trust the authority of that Church when its Council of Nicea chose which books to canonize into the Bible and which not to? Do you see the obvious discrepancy there? If the Catholics are not legitimate, then neither is their selection of which books to canonize. You can't have it both ways.

2. Who decides which variation of Christianity is the "right way or true way"? You? Evangelicals? You forget that your Evangelical brand of Christianity was created in the 1800's. It's a MODERN form, not the version that Christ's original followers had. Right after Jesus left, there was a split in the Church between James, Peter and later on, Paul. Jesus' brother James had a totally different Christianity than Paul and you do. Historians are well aware of this. You should watch some PBS documentaries about this. There was never a golden age when all Christians believed the same thing.

3. There is not one interpretation of the Bible, even if you are sincere and receive the Holy Spirit. Sorry. That's because the Bible is 66 books by different authors with different messages and ideas and opinions. You keep forgetting that MEN wrote the Bible. God didn't dictate it verbatim through a secretary. The divine tends to communicate in symbols, because their language is totally different than ours and more telepathic than linguistic. And since MEN wrote the Bible, it has mistakes, biases and political agendas. The Bible is a mix of myth, metaphor and facts. Some could be channeled yeah. But it's not perfect or literal. Too much myth and metaphor have been mixed into it.

4. If you think the Bible is God's word verbatim, then why does each book have different writing styles? If God wrote it verbatim, there would only be one writing style, not a different one for each author. GOTCHA! You can't escape that.

5. How do you know Gnosticism wasn't the original Christianity? No one knows when it originated. Your Evangelical version definitely did not precede it.

6. Jesus did not say he was the only way to God or that you would go to hell if you didn't accept him. The earliest Gospel, Mark, doesn't say that. Only John does. And we all know the Gospel of John was written decades later. This suggests that over time, Christianity became religious and dogmatic and those concepts were added in as it EVOLVED, just like any other religion, it EVOLVED. It was never fixed and unchanging as you imagine. No way man. This means the historical Jesus most likely never claimed those things, and even if he did, it doesn't make them true.

Jesus was never seen as God while on Earth, only a man. It was only afterwards that he was deified and became a God, first a demigod, then a full God. Had you met Jesus in person, you would not have seen him as God either. Only when a man is kicked upstairs and deified, does he become God. In Washington DC, you can see George Washington deified as a God in a painting called "The Apotheosis of George Washington". No man can be God on Earth. Only when he is kicked upstairs to heaven can he become God. The great Zen philosopher Alan Watt said this in his lectures too.

That's a reality check for you Neo. Denying it changes nothing. All of this is obvious and easily deducable from history and basic logic from the events and progression/evolution of Christianity. Any objective researcher can see it.
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Re: Gnosticism & The Lost Gospels - Secret Esoteric Teachings of Jesus For Initiates Only?

Post by Neo »

Winston wrote:
January 17th, 2021, 3:13 pm
Neo,
Let's get to the core issues. All you are doing is repeating fundamentalist dogma and not thinking or using any logic. It's very rigid and you lack the ability to think or reason. Dogma blinds you and you don't even realize it. Let me ask you some core questions.

1. Aren't you contradicting yourself when you say you agree that the Catholic Church corrupted Christianity and made it political, but then you trust the authority of that Church when its Council of Nicea chose which books to canonize into the Bible and which not to? Do you see the obvious discrepancy there? If the Catholics are not legitimate, then neither is their selection of which books to canonize. You can't have it both ways.

2. Who decides which variation of Christianity is the "right way or true way"? You? Evangelicals? You forget that your Evangelical brand of Christianity was created in the 1800's. It's a MODERN form, not the version that Christ's original followers had. Right after Jesus left, there was a split in the Church between James, Peter and later on, Paul. Jesus' brother James had a totally different Christianity than Paul and you do. Historians are well aware of this. You should watch some PBS documentaries about this. There was never a golden age when all Christians believed the same thing.

3. There is not one interpretation of the Bible, even if you are sincere and receive the Holy Spirit. Sorry. That's because the Bible is 66 books by different authors with different messages and ideas and opinions. You keep forgetting that MEN wrote the Bible. God didn't dictate it verbatim through a secretary. The divine tends to communicate in symbols, because their language is totally different than ours and more telepathic than linguistic. And since MEN wrote the Bible, it has mistakes, biases and political agendas. The Bible is a mix of myth, metaphor and facts. Some could be channeled yeah. But it's not perfect or literal. Too much myth and metaphor have been mixed into it.

4. If you think the Bible is God's word verbatim, then why does each book have different writing styles? If God wrote it verbatim, there would only be one writing style, not a different one for each author. GOTCHA! You can't escape that.

5. How do you know Gnosticism wasn't the original Christianity? No one knows when it originated. Your Evangelical version definitely did not precede it.

6. Jesus did not say he was the only way to God or that you would go to hell if you didn't accept him. The earliest Gospel, Mark, doesn't say that. Only John does. And we all know the Gospel of John was written decades later. This suggests that over time, Christianity became religious and dogmatic and those concepts were added in as it EVOLVED, just like any other religion, it EVOLVED. It was never fixed and unchanging as you imagine. No way man. This means the historical Jesus most likely never claimed those things, and even if he did, it doesn't make them true.

Jesus was never seen as God while on Earth, only a man. It was only afterwards that he was deified and became a God, first a demigod, then a full God. Had you met Jesus in person, you would not have seen him as God either. Only when a man is kicked upstairs and deified, does he become God. In Washington DC, you can see George Washington deified as a God in a painting called "The Apotheosis of George Washington". No man can be God on Earth. Only when he is kicked upstairs to heaven can he become God. The great Zen philosopher Alan Watt said this in his lectures too.

That's a reality check for you Neo. Denying it changes nothing. All of this is obvious and easily deducable from history and basic logic from the events and progression/evolution of Christianity. Any objective researcher can see it.
This is because you don't believe in the power of God.
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Re: Gnosticism, Lost Gospels, Esoteric Christianity - Secret Teachings of Jesus Suppressed by the Church?

Post by Winston »

Did you guys know that the Lost Gospel known as The Gospel of Mary Magdalene says that Mary was Jesus' favorite disciple and given authority to be a church leader, and not Peter? It tells a different narrative than Peter. Some think it implies that Jesus and Mary Magdalene had a romantic relationship or maybe were even married. But all this was covered up of course. However, keep in mind that in the First Century, Rabbis were usually married, not single, so it's more likely than not that Jesus was married too.

New Age women and liberal Christians love this interpretation of Mary Magdalene because it elevates women as being equal to men, and claim that since first century men were patriarchical and saw women as inferior, they erased her leadership position from history and made her into a prostitute. Very interesting. Here is the Gospel of Mary Magdalene interpreted.



Some documentaries about Mary Magdalene and what the Lost Gospels say about her which the official canonized Gospels leave out.





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