Which religion do you prefer?

[Adama]

This man is in Texas. http://stedfastbaptistkjv.org/

Where is the evidence of positive action? All I see is talk. Actually, I also see that the congregation isn't segregated by sex (as Islam and Orthodox Judaism does) which is a bad sign. What do these people do? Do they keep the sabbath? Do they enforce standards of modesty? Do they ban TVs at home? Do they do anything?

I don't think God requires a segregation of the sexes. If I am mistaken, please cite chapter and verse of the King James Bible. What do they do? They win souls for Christ. That is worth more than all the gold on earth. They go from door to door knocking in order to save people's souls from hell, by giving them the gospel of Christ. There is no higher calling than that.

God does not want people to isolate themselves. You are to live in the world but not to be of the world. Do not be a friend to the world. Yes, that means no TV, no worldly music, going to church, women wearing modest clothing (long dresses below the knees).

No one can ban TV from the home. It is a family choice. The pastor is not a ruler. He is a preacher.

But I do see that you're a hardliner, in that whatever recommendation anyone anywhere makes, you will never appreciate its significance, because you've already decided you will not. That is fine by me. Just remember in the end that I warned you.

[Adama]

Mormons take their religion directly from Freemasonry. There is not one doubt about this. It is Satanic. Unfortunately the 7th Day Adventists believe in work salvation, which is against God. Believing that entry into heaven is by your own means (work) nullifies the work Christ did on the cross by dying for our sins. Basically they are making a mockery of Christ by claiming they can get to heaven through their own righteousness. Anyone with any real sense knows that regardless of how perfect you think you are, your works are as filthy rags before God, because none of us are without sin. And to get to heaven and to live in God's presence, we must all be sinless. How to become sinless? Well you can't do it on your own by definition. Probably 90% of Christians aren't true Christians for this very reason: they believe salvation is by works when the Bible is quite clear through hundreds of scriptures that it is by faith in Jesus alone.

After you're saved, God no longer chargers sin to your account (your soul is safe), because Christ intercedes with the Father to stop that from happening. But without Christ, there is no advocate for you with the Father.

I hope God laughs at those people who think that all religion is man made and that God is the cause of all wars. It is the lust of humanity which is behind war. Religion was just a convenient cover. It is a lie which they told the commoners, which they apparently still believe, because they don't want to believe in God. They want to believe they can do whatever they want. In a few short years they'll find out how wrong they were.

And yes, salvation is based upon fear, namely avoiding the terrors of hell. You can choose to believe that hell isnt real because it is scary. That simply means it awaits you, because you chose to ignore the fear, rather than accepting that fear and using it to motivate you to believe in order to avoid hell. He warns us for a reason. Yes, it is to make you aware as to what awaits you, should you choose to ignore the work Jesus did for us at the cross. It also probably means you hate God for some reason.


God is quite clear what awaits the unbelievers in Hell (notice it is unbelievers, not those who do not keep the law):

The womb shall forget him; the worm shall feed sweetly on him; he shall be no more remembered; and wickedness shall be broken as a tree. Job 24:20

And they shall go forth, and look upon the carcases of the men that have transgressed against me: for their worm shall not die, neither shall their fire be quenched; and they shall be an abhorring unto all flesh. Isaiah 66:24

For a fire is kindled in mine anger, and shall burn unto the lowest hell, and shall consume the earth with her increase, and set on fire the foundations of the mountains. Deuteronomy 32:22

They shall be burnt with hunger, and devoured with burning heat, and with bitter destruction: I will also send the teeth of beasts upon them, with the poison of serpents of the dust. Deuteronomy 32:24

[Adama]

This one is my favorite verse on this topic. It is short, sweet and direct to the point:


Isaiah 28:19 (KJV)

19 From the time that it goeth forth it shall take you: for morning by morning shall it pass over, by day and by night: and it shall be a vexation only to understand the report.

[Adama]

These two as specifically for Yohan:

Fear, and the pit, and the snare, are upon thee, O inhabitant of the earth. And it shall come to pass, that he who fleeth from the noise of the fear shall fall into the pit; and he that cometh up out of the midst of the pit shall be taken in the snare: for the windows from on high are open, and the foundations of the earth do shake. Isaiah 24:17-18

He that fleeth from the fear shall fall into the pit; and he that getteth up out of the pit shall be taken in the snare: for I will bring upon it, even upon Moab, the year of their visitation, saith the Lord. Jeremiah 48:44

[fschmidt]

I don't think God requires a segregation of the sexes. If I am mistaken, please cite chapter and verse of the King James Bible. What do they do? They win souls for Christ. That is worth more than all the gold on earth. They go from door to door knocking in order to save people's souls from hell, by giving them the gospel of Christ. There is no higher calling than that.

I follow the Old Testament, so winning souls for Christ is not on my agenda. Moral behavior is. There is nothing in the Bible about whether or not to segregate the sexes, so I have to use my own common sense there. I only mentioned this issue because it was the only visible evidence of behavior on that site. And all moral religions in history that had religious service did segregate the sexes, and this includes Christians.

No one can ban TV from the home. It is a family choice. The pastor is not a ruler. He is a preacher.

Anyone can ban anything, but it just isn't strictly enforceable. Orthodox rabbis are quite effective in banning things like TV just by applying social pressure.

[Adama]

I don't think God requires a segregation of the sexes. If I am mistaken, please cite chapter and verse of the King James Bible. What do they do? They win souls for Christ. That is worth more than all the gold on earth. They go from door to door knocking in order to save people's souls from hell, by giving them the gospel of Christ. There is no higher calling than that.

I follow the Old Testament, so winning souls for Christ is not on my agenda. Moral behavior is. There is nothing in the Bible about whether or not to segregate the sexes, so I have to use my own common sense there. I only mentioned this issue because it was the only visible evidence of behavior on that site. And all moral religions in history that had religious service did segregate the sexes, and this includes Christians.

No one can ban TV from the home. It is a family choice. The pastor is not a ruler. He is a preacher.

Anyone can ban anything, but it just isn't strictly enforceable. Orthodox rabbis are quite effective in banning things like TV just by applying social pressure.

Despite what you might think, Fschmidt, you can not take the OT without the NT. They really are meant to go together.

I just remembered you don't even like God. You're doing this just because you think this is cool. You just want to pretend to be godly while not believing in God. I had completely forgotten that is what you're all about.

Following the OT means believing in the OT. Just like the rest of the Jews of the world, you want to go through all the motions, yet you want to cast God Himself aside. I forgot people like you do that.

I am going to show you how well the OT goes with the NT in one verse:

Proverbs 11:30King James Version (KJV)

30 The fruit of the righteous is a tree of life; and he that winneth souls is wise.

Proverbs talks about winning souls for God, turning people toward righteousness. That means getting people saved. That means giving them the gospel of Christ.

There are over 100 predictions of Jesus Christ in the OT. They describe Him accurately. You do not recognize them because you are in unbelief. Otherwise you would already know that Christ is spoken of in the OT (but just not His name, His characteristics and foreshadowing). You do not see Him because you do not truly believe, just like the rest of the modern Jews and Pharisees.

Why is it that Cain's offer was rejected but Abel's was accepted by God? Because Cain's offering was from his own labor. He worked the soil. Abel's offering was the lamb, which is a foreshadowing of Jesus Christ, who is the Lamb of God, slain for all mankind.

The sacrifices themselves in the OT are a symbolic representation of the sacrifice Christ made on the cross for us. They are predictions and prophesies which we saw fulfilled in the NT.

So you can not say I believe in the OT only. If you believed and followed the OT, you'd truly be following the NT, because the OT was there to point us towards the NT.

[Adama]

To him give all the prophets witness, that through his name whosoever believeth in him shall receive remission of sins. Acts 10:43



http://www.biblestudy.org/prophecy/old- ... illed.html


http://christianity.about.com/od/biblef ... -Jesus.htm

http://www.gotquestions.org/Old-Testament-Christ.html






Start at 1:16:00


This sermon talks about the characteristics Joseph of the OT, the son of Jacob, had with Jesus.

[Ghost]

.

[fschmidt]

The sabbath command is the most discussed command in the Old Testament and this most important. The Old Testament is logical and reasonable, so I can explain the reasoning for this.

But first note that there are no days of the week in the Old Testament. The command is quite clear from Exodus 20:8-11 "You are to labor six days and do all your work, but the seventh day is a Sabbath". There is no concept of which day to start this cycle.

Now think of Moses's problem. He was leading a bunch of former slaves. Former slaves tend to be very uncivilized since they have no culture (American blacks, for example). How do you civilize them? You need to teach them self-discipline. You need to teach them to organize their time. And you need to make sure that they take some time for introspection which is critical for character development. What can teach them all this? The sabbath is the answer.

Modern people aren't much better and have the same needs. Without self-discipline, how can you expect people to follow other rules? Finishing all your chores before the sabbath teaches both self-discipline and time organization. The day of rest makes time for reading and thinking, things that modern people never seem to have time for. And in a community, it becomes obvious who is actually keeping the sabbath, so this lets people know who are taking the religion seriously, and therefore who can be trusted. And finally, the sabbath does set one apart from modern culture because there is no way you can hide sabbath keeping from people you know, so they will know that you are not a member of modern culture. All of these are reasons why we make the sabbath a priority, but we don't care which day you keep it.

[gnosis]

While some do not consider Mormons Christian, they do support a lot of aspects of a more traditional lifestyle.

You may have a point, I don't know enough about Mormons to judge. I did visit their church but my wife really hated it, so I gave up on it. If anyone has personal experience with the Mormons, I would be interested to hear about it.

I grew up in a strict Mormon family. If you have any specific questions about the religion, I would probably be able to answer them. Online information about the LDS church tends to be polarized: It's either written by people working for the LDS church or bitter ex mormons with an axe to grind.

[fschmidt]

I grew up in a strict Mormon family. If you have any specific questions about the religion, I would probably be able to answer them.

Are you still Mormon? If not, why not?

[gnosis]

I grew up in a strict Mormon family. If you have any specific questions about the religion, I would probably be able to answer them.

Are you still Mormon? If not, why not?

I have not been active in the Mormon church for a long time, partly because I thought the leaders were too controlling and partly because active members must do unpaid part time volunteer work for the church (teaching sunday school classes, playing the piano in church, basic accounting, cleaning the building, filing, etc). At the lower levels, there is no paid clergy, so all the work is done by members.

[gsjackson]

Your forum name, gnosis, reminds me of a less-than-impressive bit of Mormon apologetics I experienced while investigating the church for several years (investigating it for a lot of the reasons fschmidt talks about in this forum).

My "recruiter" at the time, knowing I fancied myself as intellectually inclined, had me come to a talk given by someone he described as one of the intellectual heavyweights in the church. This speaker talked about a book by well-known scholar Harold Bloom, in which Bloom described Mormonism as one of the quintessential American religions, and seemed to look upon the church favorably. The speaker noted that this cast the church in an especially impressive light, given that Bloom was a self-described agnostic.

I had read part of the book years before and this didn't sound right, so I went back and checked it out. Bloom had described himself not as an agnostic, but as the exact opposite -- a gnostic. That is, someone inclined to believe mysterious, esoteric doctrines. Hence his instinctive fascination with the Mormons, who offered all sorts of mysterious, off-the-beaten-path doctrines and rituals. (This is his analysis of his motivation, not mine.)

A careless reading of the book at best by the vaunted Mormon apologist, and it's possible he was completely unfamiliar with the term gnostic, so just plugged in the term that was widely known in the pop culture -- agnostic.

[Adama]

The sabbath command is the most discussed command in the Old Testament and this most important. The Old Testament is logical and reasonable, so I can explain the reasoning for this.

But first note that there are no days of the week in the Old Testament. The command is quite clear from Exodus 20:8-11 "You are to labor six days and do all your work, but the seventh day is a Sabbath". There is no concept of which day to start this cycle.

Now think of Moses's problem. He was leading a bunch of former slaves. Former slaves tend to be very uncivilized since they have no culture (American blacks, for example). How do you civilize them? You need to teach them self-discipline. You need to teach them to organize their time. And you need to make sure that they take some time for introspection which is critical for character development. What can teach them all this? The sabbath is the answer.

Modern people aren't much better and have the same needs. Without self-discipline, how can you expect people to follow other rules? Finishing all your chores before the sabbath teaches both self-discipline and time organization. The day of rest makes time for reading and thinking, things that modern people never seem to have time for. And in a community, it becomes obvious who is actually keeping the sabbath, so this lets people know who are taking the religion seriously, and therefore who can be trusted. And finally, the sabbath does set one apart from modern culture because there is no way you can hide sabbath keeping from people you know, so they will know that you are not a member of modern culture. All of these are reasons why we make the sabbath a priority, but we don't care which day you keep it.

I won't disagree with your reasoning. I just think it isnt necessary.

One man esteemeth one day above another: another esteemeth every day alike. Let every man be fully persuaded in his own mind. Romans 14:5

And he said unto them, The sabbath was made for man, and not man for the sabbath: Mark 2:27

It doesnt matter which day is the Sabbath day. You can technically pick any day of the week you'd like.

Let me ask you. Do you work with your hands? God commands us to work with our hands. I would say that means manual labor, rather than pushing buttons. Do you keep this law?


May I ask, what is your objective? Not for your family. What is the greater goal? Are you trying to civilize people? That's never going to happen.