Why the Bible can't be taken literally, only metaphorically - Irrefutable Reasons

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Adama
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Re: Why the Bible can't be taken literally, only metaphorically and allegorically - Irrefutable Reasons

Post by Adama »

I've taken this from the Anthony Bourdain thread, since I don't want to disrespect him, and it is religious, I've posted it here.

Regarding hell, @Winston wrote:
Winston wrote:
June 9th, 2018, 1:22 pm
Well there's no logical reason to believe in an eternal hell, and no proof of it either. However, what I meant was that they could go to a worse place than here, so why don't they consider that possibility? Aren't people naturally afraid of the unknown?

Also, anyone who studies NDE's know that the hellish accounts of NDE's are usually from those who were bad or tried to commit suicide but didn't succeed. So that could be sort of an evidence.

Or it could be that suiciders are in so much suffering and pain that they think that anywhere, including hell, would be better than this life. When you are in extreme pain, that's how you think.

Also, some or most of suiciders probably have a biochemical imbalance. And medication doesn't help much. So eventually they suffer too much and see no way out.

Remember that Rock's friend, Ava Paige, was like that too. She had a good life and good future, but she was depressed from a biochemical imbalance in her brain, which could not be helped or fixed by drugs. So she saw no other way out and was tired of the suffering.

So it's likely that these suiciders have a biochemical imbalance that causes their depression. Not a depression from bad circumstances. If it was bad circumstances, they could just wait for things to get better or go on the upswing cycle. Or take a vacation and chill out somewhere. Or talk to a friend or therapist. They know that depression from circumstances is temporary. But depression from biochemical imbalance is like a hell they can't control or get rid of, so it's like a mental prison that they can't escape from. That's the only theory that makes sense.

It could also be that some of them are demon possessed. Sometimes demon possession may manifest as mental illness too. Or if they are celebrities, they may have made a pact with the devil for their fame and stardom, and eventually the devil comes to collect and takes them somehow. There are a long list of rock stars that may have suffered this fate. The movie "American Satan" depicts this deal with the devil that rock stars make. And it may be literal, not figurative. Who knows.
There's plenty of evidence of hell. It's called lava and magma. Lava is liquid fire and sulfur. Sulfur is brimstone. It comes from the nether parts of the earth, beneath our feet.
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Re: Why the Bible can't be taken literally, only metaphorically and allegorically - Irrefutable Reasons

Post by Winston »

Check out what the great Zen teacher Alan Watts said about Jesus here in this lecture below. He explains who Jesus most likely was, and what he was trying to convey to everyone, but wasn't allowed to. I think this best represents what the true historical Jesus (if he existed) was about. It makes a lot of sense and is worth listening to. Alan Watts was also very witty, funny and had a unique original way of explaining things. You just know when you hear him that he's on a very high wavelength and consciousness that's different than everyone else.

I love the part in the lecture where he says that "People on Earth cannot accept a mere mortal man on Earth being the Son of God, so they had to kick Jesus upstairs in order to deify him." LOL. The audience laughed at that. It's so true. Men cannot accept a mere mortal human on Earth being God or the Son of God, so they had to crucify him and deify him and put him on a pedestal in the heavens. Because people can only accept a God that's up there in the heavens, but not amongst them on Earth. That's so funny, witty and true about human nature. lol



Here's an excerpt from it entitled "What Jesus Really Meant But Wasn't Allowed To Say" which is a great title and very catchy.

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Re: Why the Bible can't be taken literally, only metaphorically and allegorically - Irrefutable Reasons

Post by Winston »

Discussion between me, Alex and Rock about the Bible and divine inspiration.

Roberto:

So you believe Jesus walked on water?

[12/5, 11:56 AM] Winston Wu: Hard to prove or disprove. Because some stories in bible are true, some are partially true and some are metaphor. David blaine walked on water too but there was a hidden platform under the water of course. Lol

Even if jesus never walked on water and nothing about him in the gospels is true, that doesnt mean life was created by accident by random chemicals mixing in a primordial soup. Dr. James tour thoroughly debunked that. So did science uprising series. Nor does it mean that the big bang created complexity and order and fine tuning in the universe. Explosions create chaos and destruction, not order. A nuclear bomb is not gonna build a civilization for instance.

Hence even if the bible is all untrue that doesnt make atheism true. All the greatest minds and geniuses in history never believed in atheism or fundamentalism. But they all believed in a higher power or general God or some kind.

[12/5, 11:57 AM] Rock Philippines: If you read the Bible and keep your mind open to figurative language, it may make a lot more sense to you, especially if you do so with an open mind and prayerful spirit.

[12/5, 12:00 PM] Winston Wu: I heard that ancient people only wrote stories or told stories with metaphorical truth. They werent concerned with historical accuracy or literalism.

Only the catholic church began making religion literal. Because for the church to have authority over men, the scriptures and dogmas have to become literalized. Thats when religion became literal.

If u look at hinduism no one cares if the stories are historical or not. Only orthodox Christianity is obsessed with literal truth.

[12/5, 12:00 PM] Rock Philippines: Are you sure it's the Orthodox branch?

[12/5, 12:17 PM] Winston Wu: No i mean orthodox like in the institution of christianity. like catholic church or evangelical churches in america. They have a literal interpretation of the bible. And in the 1800s they declared the bible infallible to protect the church against the evolution teachings in school.

[12/5, 12:24 PM] Rock Philippines: The problem is, that if you interpret the Bible in a totally machine like computer code, literal sense, it doesn't seem possible to use it in it's entirety without having challenging contradictions to figure out. So they must cherry pick to meet their beliefs or agenda.

[12/6, 12:24 AM] Alex From Venice: that's because the Bible isn't "a book" but it's a "collection of books" and that collection isn't consistent. So what cause the "contradiction" in the first place is the assumption that "the Bible" content has to be as consistent as it is the content of a single book.

[12/6, 12:34 AM] Rock Philippines: The included cannons are divinely inspired and are used as a whole by Christians and other believers and have been for centuries. Thus they are expected to be consistent with each other given that truth is truth. But those who apply human scientific style logic to the Bible or even just the various gospels may end up confused and miss the points.

[12/6, 12:40 AM] Alex From Venice: I personally think that inserting Saint Paul's letters in the Bible has been a mistake as over the centuries has caused Saint Paul's theology to be regarded as "word of God" due to the fact that it's included into the Bible. Now, I don't argue the high value of the theological teachings of Saint Paul, but sure enough he wasn't God and he wasn't appointend by God to talk in his her behalf, and Saint Paul wasn't free from personal issues, like a difficult to interact with women maybe due to a sexually repressed personality trait, which then affected his teachings casting a negative shadow on women in general.

[12/6, 12:46 AM] Alex From Venice: yes, they are expected, based on the false assumption that the Bible is a collection of "divinely inspired" writings where the "divine inspiration" is assumed of the same "quality" for all the authors and it's such that the human nature of the author it's not affecting the result of the "divine inspiration" so "the truth" isn't questionable.

[12/6, 12:54 AM] Alex From Venice: that's the same assumption that generated the dogma of the infallibility of the Pope, the chief of the Roman Catholic Church, which is supposed to be chosen by "divine inspiration" and he is supposed to be the successor of Jesus (according to the tradition) and therefore to be also "divinely inspired".
Therefore nothing that the Pope says can be "wrong" and no one can argue with him, hence total obedience is due.
Of course such assumptions are false as it's evident how Popes, along the history, and in particular this last one which is causing scandal within the Catholic church, have acted and preached in contradiction with Jesus teachings.

[12/6, 7:51 AM] Winston Wu: I agree. and so does the genius emanuel swedenborg, who was comparable to leonardo davinci but because he had a spiritual awakening history doesn't like to give him too much attention.

Paul's letters are just letters to churches. They weren't supposed to be canonized as scripture. But his theology fit the catholic churchs teachings so they decided to canonize them. Remember that Paul never met Jesus. And his letters were written before the four gospels, according to bible historians.

[12/6, 7:57 AM] Winston Wu: Yes thats true. The problem is that the christian church confuses divine inspiration with dictation, as if the bible was dictated by God to a secretary the way a boss dictates a letter to his secretary word by word verbatim. Thats not what inspiration means. If i see a sunrise and it inspires me to paint it, the sun didnt dictate the painting, it merely inspired it within me. The authors of the bible were human. If God wanted to dictate every word he would write it himself in heaven or have angels write it and then send it down. The divine doesnt work like that. Like dreams it communicates in symbols and allegories. Because words cannot capture God or the heavens. In higher dimensions words arent necessary. The bible can capture the essence of the message but of course its been changed over time and evolved per the culture and politics of each era from saint paul to today.
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Re: Why the Bible can't be taken literally, only metaphorically and allegorically - Irrefutable Reasons

Post by Winston »

Heres a good video by Curtis Childs of the Swedenborg Foundation where he explains the damaging consequences of taking the Bible literally.



What he neglects to mention is that ancient people were not concerned with historical accuracy or literalism. They were focused on metaphorical truths. Religion scholar Reza Aslan explains this in his lectures. Its something important that both Christians and atheists forget and never consider. Tom Harpur also talks about it in his book "the pagan christ" which is a mythicist book. So did the great Joseph Campbell.

I think literalism began with the Roman Catholic Church right? Because without literalism u cant claim authority over people with metaphorical truths only. Is that correct?

Keep in mind that all the greatest geniuses in history like Einstein, Tesla, DaVinci, Swedenborg, Ben Franklin, Thomas Edison, Isaac Newton, Mark Twain, Carl Jung, etc were neither atheists nor Christian fundamentalists. They saw both extremes as hogwash. They all believed in a higher power or God but believed that the bible should be taken metaphorically, not literally. Same as me. So I'm definitely in good company, as the greatest geniuses and minds in history agree with me and hold the same views.

This means that the smarter or more brilliant someone is, the more they see through atheism as hogwash and fundamentalist Christianity as well. Keep that in mind. Its very revealing.

The lesson here is that the truth tends to be in the middle. Not on either extreme. Both Christians and atheists need to understand this. But university debates tend to portray a false dichotomy as if the only two choices were atheism and Christian fundamentalism.

Think about this.
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Re: Why the Bible can't be taken literally, only metaphorically and allegorically - Irrefutable Reasons

Post by josephty2 »

The Bible said many liars would appear as ghosts, demons, some humans can see them naturally while others take drugs to see hallucinations of ghosts, demons, etc.

The Bible does mention organic portals! The idea of false gods or pagans versus "God's chosen people" differentiates true humans from organic portals.

The Bible says that having sex with a lot of women and as a result produce children with missing fathers is a serious sin. Sadly this was misinterpreted as homosexuality being the sin.

Another idea is the Bible author spoke of karma as "original sin". Many misunderstand this and think that you have to follow excessive church / religion rules to go to heaven - but an example is if in a past life (reincarnated) you murdered someone and got away with it without being punished by law, you have "original sin" and the punishment would be imprisonment in the next reincarnation but "false accusation". Thats why some people who didn't commit a crime get falsely accused and punished, it can last for years. I'm sure thats what the Bible meant.
Then again, some people go all the way (cognitive dissonance/fallacy of incomplete evidence).

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Re: Why the Bible can't be taken literally, only metaphorically and allegorically - Irrefutable Reasons

Post by Neo »

The Bible said many liars would appear as ghosts, demons, some humans can see them naturally while others take drugs to see hallucinations of ghosts, demons, etc.

The Bible does mention organic portals! The idea of false gods or pagans versus "God's chosen people" differentiates true humans from organic portals.

The Bible says that having sex with a lot of women and as a result produce children with missing fathers is a serious sin. Sadly this was misinterpreted as homosexuality being the sin.

Another idea is the Bible author spoke of karma as "original sin". Many misunderstand this and think that you have to follow excessive church / religion rules to go to heaven - but an example is if in a past life (reincarnated) you murdered someone and got away with it without being punished by law, you have "original sin" and the punishment would be imprisonment in the next reincarnation but "false accusation". Thats why some people who didn't commit a crime get falsely accused and punished, it can last for years. I'm sure thats what the Bible meant.
I'm afraid much of this is incorrect.
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Re: Why the Bible can't be taken literally, only metaphorically and allegorically - Irrefutable Reasons

Post by Contrarian Expatriate »

This is what a lack of proof causes, confusion, discord, and an utter lack of clarity. The very fact that Christians can’t even agree on fundamental concepts of Christianity is evidence that the very faith itself is built upon specious underpinnings.

Christians arguing about who is a true and who is not a true Christian strike me as trans women arguing about whom is more “woman” than the others! It is wasted effort on a pointless subject.

For all you “Christians” suffering through life in terrible circumstances, how has Christianity helped improve your life? It may be the reason you have stagnated and failed to succeed.

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Re: Why the Bible can't be taken literally, only metaphorically - Irrefutable Reasons

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Great video about what the word of God really means and why the Bible isn't it. It makes sense and will make you think deeper beyond the facade of mainstream Christianity.



Some comments I posted below the video:

"I've never understood why Christians think the Bible is God's word when everyone knows that MEN wrote the Bible over thousands of years and that MEN revised it many times afterward. There's no basis for saying a book written by many MEN is the word of God. Even when I was a Christian I never understood that either. It seemed like something you believed in because you were told so by the Church and because everyone else believed it too. It's seen as a given, like 2+2=4. In other words, it's true because it's true. It's a closed loop that short circuits your reasoning, like you said Reginald."

"Reginald, you should do a video about nowhere in the Bible does it ever mention free will. Not once. Christians don't know that. Therefore, the concept of free will is man made. The Bible seems to be against free will in fact. Many verses mention predestination of the saved, and of course, the Adam and Eve story eating the fruit of the knowledge of good and evil means that free will is a bad thing. Not a good thing. This goes against what Christians think today."

"I love how you said in another video "Christianity creates a CLOSED loop that short circuits your reason". So true and spot on! Nails it! That says it all! You should expand on that sometime Reginald. Kudos. I've also said that Christianity is full of circular reasoning."

"Reginald, check out these 3 Bible verses where Paul says the Bible is NOT God's word! You should do a video on this. This blows Christians away! The three verses where Paul says he is writing his opinion and not God's opinion, are here:

1 Corinthians 7:12
"But to the rest speak I, not the Lord: If any brother hath a wife that believeth not, and she be pleased to dwell with him, let him not put her away."

The Apostle Paul clearly says here in the first sentence "speak I, NOT the Lord". He is saying that these words he is about to say are from him and not God! It’s in plain language. This alone technically invalidates the fundamentalist doctrine that every word in the Bible is uttered directly by God. It alone shatters this absolute claim of theirs. There is no defense. However, there are two more similar verses like it to shatter the doctrine even further beyond what’s necessary. Later on in the same chapter, Paul says:

1 Corinthians 7:25
"Now concerning virgins I have no commandment of the Lord: yet I give my judgment, as one that hath obtained mercy of the Lord to be faithful."

You see here how Paul is saying that he is using his best personal judgment, and that what he's saying is not directly from God? He is telling you that he is writing his own opinion. Then, in Paul’s next letter to the Corinthians, he says:

2 Corinthians 11:17
"That which I speak, I speak it not after the Lord, but as it were foolishly, in this confidence of boasting."

Again, the same claim by Paul. So you see, it's impossible to claim that every word in the Bible is God's word."
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Re: Why the Bible can't be taken literally, only metaphorically - Irrefutable Reasons

Post by Winston »

Check this out. The famous Christian apologist, Dr. William Lane Craig says Genesis is not to be taken literally. At least not the first 11 chapters, which are the parts before Abraham.

Someone told me:

"Speaking of Adam eating forbidden fruit that grants knowledge, must watch. Do a search for William Lane Craig and Adam. Conservative Protestantism is having a seizure over these remakes of his, here is a very short video."

https://youtu.be/Rl-YcG4y22w

Apologist William Craig Denies Genesis 1-11: Adam was Caveman that Lived 750,000 Years Ago

https://protestia.com/2021/09/22/apolog ... years-ago/
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Re: Why the Bible can't be taken literally, only metaphorically - Irrefutable Reasons

Post by Winston »

Eric Dubay:

"As someone who has attended church since before I could walk, in a family comprised entirely of devout Christians, and having read the Bible cover to cover it has become increasingly clear to me that these holy scriptures were meant to be taken symbolically, not literally or historically. Things like talking snakes and bushes, virgins giving birth, eating the body of Christ, staffs turning into serpents, and many other biblical “miracles” are all actually ancient spiritual symbolisms, found in many cultures/traditions around the world, thousands of years older than the Bible, referring to psychological phenomena, not historical events. Of course snakes and bushes cannot talk, of course virgins cannot give birth, Christ isn’t a cannibal, wooden staffs cannot turn into living serpents, water cannot magically turn into wine, breads/fish cannot magically manifest from the aether, and humans cannot survive for days inside whale’s bellies.

2 Corinthians 3:6 clearly says the scriptures should NOT be read literally. Matthew 13:34 says Jesus never spoke unless it was in parables. He said people who took the word literally were like those who looked but could not see! Modern fundamentalist Christians who read the Bible literally with their over-active left-brains are missing the whole point. The reason Jesus cast nets to the right side, sits on the right side of God, and builds the door to the temple on the right side, is because he is leading us out of our lower left brains and into our holistic, symbolic, higher brain on the right.

The following full-length documentary featuring Eric Dubay, Pastor Bill Donahue, Pastor Ray Hagins, and John St. Julien explores the many esoteric symbolic hidden meanings in the Bible and sheds light on the deeper and more personal and practical wisdom hiding behind the church's literal interpretations."

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