Does God Exist? Is there any proof or evidence?

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Yohan
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Re: Does God Exist? Is there any proof or evidence?

Post by Yohan »

https://www.atheists.org/activism/resou ... sus-exist/

It is not even sure, if Jesus Christ even existed... the Bible says yes, but there is no other source....
John E. Remsburg, in his classic book The Christ: A Critical Review and Analysis of the Evidence of His Existence (The Truth Seeker Company, NY, no date, pp. 24-25), lists the following writers who lived during the time, or within a century after the time, that Jesus is supposed to have lived:

Josephus Juvenal Lucanus
Philo-Judæus Martial Epictetus
Seneca Persius Hermogones Silius Italicus
Pliny Elder Plutarch Statius
Arrian Pliny Younger Ptolemy
Petronius Tacitus Appian
Dion Pruseus Justus of Tiberius Phlegon
Paterculus Apollonius Phædrus
Suetonius Quintilian Valerius Maximus
Pausanias Dio Chrysostom Lysias
Florus Lucius Columella Pomponius Mela
Lucian Valerius Flaccus Appion of Alexandria
Quintius Curtius Damis Theon of Smyrna
Aulus Gellius Favorinus

According to Remsburg, “Enough of the writings of the authors named in the foregoing list remains to form a library. Yet in this mass of Jewish and Pagan literature, aside from two forged passages in the works of a Jewish author, and two disputed passages in the works of Roman writers, there is to be found no mention of Jesus Christ.” Nor, we may add, do any of these authors make note of the Disciples or Apostles – increasing the embarrassment from the silence of history concerning the foundation of Christianity.


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MrMan
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Re: The Problems With Atheists and Atheism

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Contrarian Expatriate wrote:
November 29th, 2020, 6:14 pm
MrMan wrote:
November 29th, 2020, 5:26 pm
Contrarian Expatriate wrote:
November 20th, 2020, 7:19 pm
MrMan wrote:
November 20th, 2020, 5:44 pm
Contrarian Expatriate wrote:
November 11th, 2020, 1:45 am

But you did not answer the question. Why do you not view the woman's prayer's going unanswered as evidence that god might NOT exist. Again, you pick and choose the few examples of where there was a favorable outcome for the person praying and hold it up as "evidence." Yet, you ignore the more numerous unanswered prayers then come up with some ridiculously lame excuse like, "You'd be hard pressed to find someone whose religion teaches that no one ever gets sick and dies." Selective "evidence" if I ever saw it!
Because your argument makes no sense. If ten people call your house and you answer the phone once, the person who gets you on the line has definitive proof that someone is on the other end of the line. Does it make sense to say that you might exist because you only occasionally pick up for people who call you?

I am not saying that that is God's attitude, but in the Bible there are certain conditions under which we should not expect God to answer a prayer--prayers that violate His revealed will, prayers not prayed in faith, etc.
And that coincidence is your proof that god exists? Please tell me you are trolling because you cannot be that stupid. And the fact that you think god felt providing $400 to you was more important than answering prayers of parents to save their children from agonizing cancer death is narcissistically insane.
It wasn't my argument either.
Because you don't HAVE an argument. Christians never do. All they actually do is attribute things to the whims of "god's will" or to some incoherent mumbo jumbo about how god works in mysterious ways.

That is typical Christian gaslighting and manipulation.
It seems to me like you would dismiss any evidence like that presented to you without considering it. Do you believe there is a God? Do you have any religious beliefs?
You, nor any other person, has any "evidence" that god exists so cut the crap. Whether I believe in god or not, it does not matter.
The evidence for God's existence is all around you.
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Winston
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Re: Does God Exist? Is there any proof or evidence?

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Yohan,
Actually some people claim to have been visited by dead loved ones. They cant all be wrong. Some of the visions are vivid and some have been seen by multiple witnesses, such as both parents who lost their son. Etc. Not everyone has such visions. But some do. So u can't claim there is zero evidence. Theres some evidence. But its iffy. You cant claim zero.

Also many psychic mediums have seemingly contacted the souls of the dead like George Anderson or Jonathan Edwards. They have revealed deep secrets of the departed souls that only those close to them knew. There are many examples. Dr. Gary Schwartz has many successful double blind experiments involving mediums.

You really know nothing about parapsychology it seems. Why do u think nothing is there when youve done zero research on the subject. Isn't that very ignorant and uneducated?

MrMan is right. Creation is proof of a Creator. Its basic logic. You can't refute that.
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MrMan
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Re: Does God Exist? Is there any proof or evidence?

Post by MrMan »

Winston wrote:
December 10th, 2020, 8:00 am
Also many psychic mediums have seemingly contacted the souls of the dead like George Anderson or Jonathan Edwards. They have revealed deep secrets of the departed souls that only those close to them knew. There are many examples. Dr. Gary Schwartz has many successful double blind experiments involving mediums.
There are other explanations for this, such as demons who have followed the deceased around or by whatever means know intimate details of their lives may be able to imitate them.
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Re: Does God Exist? Is there any proof or evidence?

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MrMan wrote:
December 10th, 2020, 8:03 am
Winston wrote:
December 10th, 2020, 8:00 am
Also many psychic mediums have seemingly contacted the souls of the dead like George Anderson or Jonathan Edwards. They have revealed deep secrets of the departed souls that only those close to them knew. There are many examples. Dr. Gary Schwartz has many successful double blind experiments involving mediums.
There are other explanations for this, such as demons who have followed the deceased around or by whatever means know intimate details of their lives may be able to imitate them.
Some Christians say that yes. But we don't know for sure. Thats just your opinion based on your evangelical beliefs. Its not fact. Certainly Yohan does not know for sure. He is not God and he is not even familiar with parapsychology. So he is the last person who would know. Yet he pretends that his beliefs are facts. Thats very ignorant and illogical. He should at least admit that he doesn't know and be humble about it.
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Re: Does God Exist? Is there any proof or evidence?

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The problem with the West is that when people say “God”, they don’t know what the hell they are talking about. Before you say something exists, you need to at least define what it is that you think exists. If your image of God is an old man with a white beard, then that is your imagination. A more focused inquiry is “Is material the only thing that exists or is there something more primary?” . Or does consciousness come from material, or does material come from consciousness? The scientific materialist say that consciousness comes from material, because the brain ultimately is just a clump of matter. But nobody can prove that matter can cause consciousness, so they are just speculating. I believe that it is the other way around: consciousness produces matter. That is God.
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Re: Does God Exist? Is there any proof or evidence?

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@Yohan how do you know there's no God? On what basis or rationale? How do you explain life and consciousness and intelligent design? Is it your belief that we are all here by random chance, and that life comes from non-life? Are you 100 percent sure there's no God? You act like it's a fact. Why?
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Re: Does God Exist? Is there any proof or evidence?

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MrPeabody wrote:
December 10th, 2020, 5:00 pm
The problem with the West is that when people say “God”, they don’t know what the hell they are talking about. Before you say something exists, you need to at least define what it is that you think exists. If your image of God is an old man with a white beard, then that is your imagination. A more focused inquiry is “Is material the only thing that exists or is there something more primary?” . Or does consciousness come from material, or does material come from consciousness? The scientific materialist say that consciousness comes from material, because the brain ultimately is just a clump of matter. But nobody can prove that matter can cause consciousness, so they are just speculating. I believe that it is the other way around: consciousness produces matter. That is God.
The materialists believe that brain produces consciousness because when the brain is shut down, so is consciousness usually. Like when you are asleep or under anasthesia, you have no consciousness. And brain damage usually changes one's personality. That's their basis. But that doesn't explain everything about consciousness or its nature or its origin.

That's a good point, but if we are all consciousness that creates matter, then that is something like pantheism or that we are all just God split into many fragments and dreaming and forgetting who we are. That's more a New Age and Hindu concept of God. A lot of New Agers like that idea, but it's hard to prove. Also, when I meditate or have spiritual experiences, I don't feel like I and everyone are all "one consciousness". But many others do feel that way during spiritual experiences. I don't know if they are right or not, because I don't experience that. So I remain on the fence about that.
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Re: Does God Exist? Is there any proof or evidence?

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For CE and Yohan to consider:

Check out Anthony Flew, a famous lifelong Atheist philosopher who changed his mind after 66 years of Atheist belief. He even wrote the Encyclopedia on Atheism. But his open minded skepticism allowed him to examine the evidence on both sides objectively. Eventually he came to agree that the intelligent design arguments were too powerful and irrefutable to continue being an honest Atheist. So he followed the evidence where it led and became a Theist in the latter years of his life. See his book below about why he turned from a lifelong philosophy of Atheism.

https://www.amazon.com/There-God-Notori ... 000W9169S/

There Is a God: How the World's Most Notorious Atheist Changed His Mind
by Anthony Flew

In one of the biggest religion news stories of the new millennium, the Associated Press announced that Professor Antony Flew, the world's leading atheist, now believes in God.

Flew is a pioneer for modern atheism. His famous paper, Theology and Falsification, was first presented at a meeting of the Oxford Socratic Club chaired by C. S. Lewis and went on to become the most widely reprinted philosophical publication of the last five decades. Flew earned his fame by arguing that one should presuppose atheism until evidence of a God surfaces. He now believes that such evidence exists, and There Is a God chronicles his journey from staunch atheism to believer.

For the first time, this book will present a detailed and fascinating account of Flew's riveting decision to revoke his previous beliefs and argue for the existence of God. Ever since Flew's announcement, there has been great debate among atheists and believers alike about what exactly this "conversion" means. There Is a God will finally put this debate to rest.

This is a story of a brilliant mind and reasoned thinker, and where his lifelong intellectual pursuit eventually led him: belief in God as designer.

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How Antony Flew changed from atheism to Theism by "following the argument no matter where it led"
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Antony Flew (1923-2010) was the son of a Wesleyan Methodist preacher. His mind was never enchanted by Christian study or worship. During family visits to Germany prior to WWII, Antony was exposed to anti-Semitism and totalitarianism. He found these evils to be incompatible with the idea of a good and all-powerful God. He became an atheist at fifteen years of age.

While studying philosophy at Oxford (1946-1950), Antony learned the critical importance of correct verbal usage, which provides our only access to understanding concepts. He remembered admiring his father and other biblical scholars study some peculiar Old Testament concept by collecting and examining all available usages of the relevant Hebrew word.

In May 2004, after 66 years of atheism, Flew announced at a debate that he accepted the existence of a God. Alvin Plantinga later said, “It speaks very well of Professor Flew's honesty. After all these years of opposing the idea of a Creator, he reverses his position on the basis of evidence.” Indeed, Flew credits this change to a lifelong commitment he always had to “follow the argument no matter where it leads.”

Flew says that his discovery of the Divine was a pilgrimage of reason and not of faith. He made his conclusions on a purely natural level, without any connection to organized religions. From a philosophical standpoint, he was most influenced by David Conway's “The Recovery of Wisdom: From Here to Antiquity in Quest of Sophia” in which he said,
“In sum, to the Being whom he considered to be the explanation of the world, Aristotle ascribed the following attributes: immutability, immateriality, omnipotence, omniscience, oneness of indivisibility, perfect goodness and necessary existence. There is an impressive correspondence between this set of attributes and those traditionally ascribed to God within the Judeo-Christian tradition. It is one that fully justifies us in viewing Aristotle as having had the same Divine Being in mind as the cause of the world that is the object of worship as the cause of the world that is the object of worship of these two religions.”

Flew says that, as Conway sees it, the God of the monotheistic religions has the same attributes as the God of Aristotle, and could be discovered by “unaided human reason.” Flew had not acknowledged the Christian God, the Trinity of Father, Son and Holy Spirit. Neither did he acknowledge the revelation from the Bible, that God can only be known through His revealing Himself to us, and not through our human reasoning.
As Paul wrote to the Corinthians,
“My message and my preaching were not in persuasive words of wisdom, but in demonstration of the Spirit and of power, so that your faith would NOT REST ON THE WISDOM OF MEN, but on the power of God...We speak the wisdom not of this age nor of the rulers of this age...We speak God's wisdom in a mystery...For to us God revealed them through the Spirit; for the Spirit searches all things, even the depths of God...The thoughts of God no one knows except the Spirit of God” (1 Cor 1:4-11).

Flew did say, however, that regarding the Christian claim that God became man in the person of Jesus Christ, no other religion enjoys anything like the combination of a charismatic figure like Jesus and a first-class intellectual like St. Paul. “If you're wanting omniscience to set up a religion, it seems to me this is the one to beat!”

Flew says that he sought to answer 3 questions:
1) How did the laws of nature come about?
2) How did life originate from non-life?
3) How did the universe come into existence?

WHAT ARE LAWS OF NATURE?
A law of nature is anything that occurs with regularity and symmetry in nature. These regularities are mathematically precise, universal, and “tied together.”
Boyle's Law says that given constant temperature, the product of the volume and pressure of a fixed quantity of an ideal gas is constant.
The Law of the Conservation of Energy says that the total amount of energy in an isolated system remains constant.
Many prominent scientists have regarded the laws of nature as thoughts of the Mind of God.

THE MIND OF GOD
In “A Brief History of Time,” Stephen Hawking said,
“If we discover a complete theory...of why it is that we and the universe exist, it would be the ultimate triumph of human reason. For then we should know the mind of God.”

Einstein did not believe in a personal God. However, in “The Quotable Einstein,” he did say,
“My religiosity consists of a humble admiration of the infinitely superior spirit who reveals himself in the slight details we are able to perceive with our frail and feeble minds. That deeply emotional conviction of the presence of a superior reasoning power, which is revealed in the comprehensible universe, forms my idea of God.”

In “The Autobiography of Charles Darwin,” Darwin said,
“[Reason tells me of the] extreme difficulty or rather impossibility of conceiving this immense and wonderful universe, including man with his capacity of looking backwards and far into the future, as the result of blind chance or necessity. When thus reflecting I feel compelled to look for a First Cause having an intelligent mind in some degree analogous to that of man and I deserve to be called a Theist.”

In his book, “The Divine Lawmaker: Lectures on Induction, Laws of Nature and the Existence of God,” John Foster says that regularities in nature are best explained by a divine Mind.

Paul Davies, a physicist and cosmologist, says, “Science is based on the assumption that the universe is thoroughly rational and logical at all levels. Atheists claim that the laws of nature exist reasonlessly and that the universe is ultimately absurd. As a scientist, I find this hard to accept. There must be an unchanging rational ground in which the logical, orderly nature of the universe is rooted.”

THE FINE-TUNING ARGUMENT (ANTHROPIC PRINCIPLE)
The laws of nature seem to have been crafted so as to move the universe toward the emergence and sustenance of life. This is the anthropic principle, popularized by such thinkers as Martin Rees, John Barrow, and John Leslie.

If the value of even one of the fundamental constants – the speed of light or the mass of an electron, for example – had been to the slightest degree different, then no planet capable of permitting the evolution of human life could have been formed.

John Leslie argues that fine tuning is best explained by divine design. Examples include:
1. The principle of special relativity ensures that forces such as electromagnetism have an invariable effect regardless of whether they act at right angles to a system's direction of travel. This enables the genetic codes to work and planets to hold together when rotating.
2. Quantum laws prevent electrons from spiraling into atomic nuclei.
3. Electromagnetism has one-force strength, which enables multiple key processes to take place.
It allows stars to burn steadily for billions of years.
It enable carbon synthesis in stars.
It ensures that leptons do not replace quarks, which would have made atoms impossible.
It is responsible for protons not decaying too fast or repelling each other too strongly, which would have made chemistry impossible. How is it possible for the same one-force strength to satisfy so many different requirements, when it seems that different strengths would be required for each one of these processes?

Other scientists try to explain fine tuning with the theory of multiple parallel universes, or multiverses. But if we are trying to understand why the universe is bio-friendly, we are not helped by being told that all possible universes exist! Richard Swinburne says, “It is crazy to postulate a trillion universes to explain the features of one universe, when postulating one entity, God, will do the job.
There is currently no evidence in support of a multiverse.

LIFE vs. NON-LIFE
Life is
(1) teleological (having built-in purposes),
(2) self-reproductive, and
(3) has “coded chemistry.”

The genetic message in DNA is duplicated in replication and then copied from DNA to RNA in transcription. Following this there is translation whereby the message from RNA is conveyed to the amino acids, and finally amino acids are assembled into proteins. The cell's two different structures of information management and chemical activity are coordinated by the universal genetic code.
Paul Davies says we need to explain the origin of this information, and the way in which the information processing machinery came to exist. A gene is nothing but a set of coded instructions with a precise recipe for manufacturing proteins. These genetic instructions are not the kind of information you find in thermodynamics and statistical mechanics. Rather, they constitute semantic information that have specific meaning. These instructions can only be effective in a molecular environment capable of interpreting the meaning of genetic code. The question is, “How did meaningful semantic information emerge spontaneously from a collection of mindless molecules subject to blind and purposeless forces?”

PROTOBIOLOGISTS DON'T KNOW HOW LIFE BEGAN
Andy Knoll, author of “Life on a Young Planet: The First Three Billion Years of Life,” says,
“We don't know how life started on this planet. We don't know exactly when it started, and we don't know under what circumstances.”

Antonio Lazcano, president of the International Society for the Study of the Origin of Life, reports,
“Life could not have evolved without a genetic mechanism, one able to store, replicate, and transmit to its progeny information that can change with time. Precisely how the first genetic machinery evolved is an unresolved issue. The exact pathway for life's origin may never be known.”

John Maddox, the editor emeritus of “Nature,” writes,
“The overriding question is when and then how sexual reproduction itself evolved. We do not know.”

There is no law of nature that instructs matter to produce end-directed, self-replicating entities.

George Wald, the Nobel Prize-winning physiologist, said,
So how do we account for the origin of life? “We choose to believe the impossible. That live arose spontaneously by chance.” Later in life, he concluded, “It is mind that has composed a physical universe that breeds life.”

THE COSMOLOGICAL ARGUMENT
Richard Swinburne summarizes the cosmological argument:
“It is very unlikely that a universe would exist uncaused, but rather more likely that God would exist uncaused.”

AN INCORPOREAL OMNIPRESENT SPIRIT
In his book, “God and Philosophy,” atheist Flew argued that a “person without a body” seemed nonsensical. Later, Thomas Tracy argued in his books “God, Action and Embodiment” and “The God Who Acts” how it is possible to be a person without a body. Tracy considers persons, human and divine, to be agents that can act intentionally. If this is true, then a body is not necessary for being an agent. God can be identified through the way He acts. He is a radically self-creative agent who is the omnipotent creator of all things. God also loves in concrete ways. Since His mode of life and powers of action are fundamentally different than ours, then so will be His love and patience and wisdom.
He exists outside time and space, since He is not corporeal, while at the same time acting intentionally within time and space.

Flew concludes that his pilgrimage of reason, and following the argument to where it takes him, has led him to accept the existence of a self-existent, immutable, immaterial, omnipotent, and omniscient Being.
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Re: Does God Exist? Is there any proof or evidence?

Post by Winston »

Perhaps this is what @Contrarian Expatriate believes then? I think it's what Thomas Paine the founding father, believed too. Deism, the belief in God without religion and the belief that God does not intervene in this world.

https://www.amazon.com/dp/B00NRBM54I/

God Gave Us Reason, Not Religion
by Bob Johnson

Is it logical to believe in God? Is it possible to believe in God beyond a reasonable doubt? Does it make sense that The Supreme Intelligence/God is responsible for the Universe and all the designs and laws of Nature that science is able to discover and that make it possible for you to exist and live?

This book answers these questions and many more in a lucid and enjoyable style that will help the reader profoundly realize that there is a very important and very real difference between God and religion, and that it is true that God gave us reason and not religion. These Deistic realizations serve to genuinely liberate the mind and to help many people live more meaningful, joyful and purposeful lives.

God Gave Us Reason, Not Religion draws on the author's personal life experiences and from the profound insights of the great minds of the ancient philosophers, the Enlightenment thinkers, the early American Deists through to Albert Einstein and modern philosophers and scientists. These rich resources give the reader a very solid and deep appreciation for their innate God-given reason and inspiration to embrace and use it to improve their own lives, the lives of their family and friends and society as a whole.

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Author Bob Johnson is the founder and director of the World Union of Deists, and he also runs its website. He wrote in the Introduction to this 2014 book, “The Deistic rational realization that The Supreme Intelligence/God did give us innate reason and not religion helps people to see the very important difference between God and religion… Many people who do not accept any of the ‘revealed’ religions or the Bible, Quran or any book held out to be the Word of God often mistakenly think that since they reject all the ‘revealed’ religions and their ‘holy’ books that that must be Atheists or Agnostics… Unfortunately, too many people have never heard of Deism and do not know that Deism is a rational and natural alternative available for them and that they are not alone in their views and beliefs of God, spirituality, reason and religion. The factual belief that God gave us reason and not religion is a key principle of Deism… Deists believe the gift of our innate reason is a gift from The Supreme Intelligence/God, second only to the gift of life itself, for us to USE every day of our lives.” (Pg. 3-4)

He observes, “the Universal Creation is the only possible ‘Word of God’ … By its very nature it protects us from being imposed upon by people who want to control and manipulate us for their own selfish benefit. It also protects us from all fear-based and unreasonable/ungodly superstitions such as belief in Satan, devils, demons, jinn, witches and curses among many other things. The realization that the Universe and all the laws and designs found within it are the only possible ‘Word of God’ makes for such a deeply joyful life, it is truly difficult to describe adequately.” (Pg. 12)

He suggests, “The ‘revealed’ religionists are used to debating nonbelievers who value reason but who do not believe in The Supreme Intelligence/God and the Atheists and Agnostics are not used to debating people who embrace reason and who also believe in The Supreme Intelligence/God without all the foolish man-made superstitions and dogmas attached. This important change that Deism brings to the reason v. religion debate takes the wind out of the sails of new … belief systems such as many New Age groups and Scientology.” (Pg. 13-14)

He points out, “By its very nature revelation, divine or otherwise, can only be revelation in the first instance… once I tell it to someone else, it is NOT a DIVINE REVELATON to them; it is only mere hearsay because they are not receiving it from a second-hand source and a fellow mortal… They must… put their faith in me, not in God in order to believe what I am telling them is a divine revelation. All of the various ‘revealed’/hearsay religions fail on this basic and fundamental starting point.” (Pg. 29)

He states, “Although some secular accounts of someone called Jesus do exist, such as from the Jewish historian Josephus Flavius in ‘Antiquities,’ none of them would qualify as being contemporaneous with Jesus, if he did exist, as these accounts were all written by people born after the time it is claimed Jesus lived and was crucified. There is about as much evidence that Jesus was a real person as there is that Hercules was a real person.” (Pg. 59)

He outlines, “Deism is completely void of any belief in any type of savior, messiah, mahdi, etc., that will magically appear to correct all of our problems here on Earth. The important principle of people accepting their own responsibility to employ their reason and follow it up with work and action to make a better life for themselves and their families and to create a better world in general is of great significance in Deism. This Deistic principle gives people and society a deep sense of meaning and purpose and virtually unlimited potential for good and for true profound progress and happiness.” (Pg. 113-114) Later, he adds, “One of the terrible realities of belief in a savior, in addition to believing that we don’t need to work hard to make a better world because the savior is coming back to make things right.” (Pg. 125)

He asks, “How can we unconditionally love God if we believe not loving God will result in our burning and suffering in hell for eternity? In the convoluted and torturous doctrines and dogmas of Christianity, all hope of unconditional love of The Supreme Intelligence/God is destroyed… It is a profound insult to The Supreme Intelligence/God to believe such rubbish.” (Pg. 125-126)

He notes, ‘Due to Deism being rational and natural, it appeals to many people from an Atheistic and Agnostic background. Frequently, I hear from people who tell me how happy they are to learn about Deism and that they believed they were Atheists or Agnostics because they rejected the teachings of all of the ‘revealed’ religions. After learning about Deism and its promotion of our innate reason and belief in The Supreme Intelligence/God based on the application of that reason on the laws and designs in Nature, they gladly realize they are Deists. Deism also connects with non-dogmatic Atheists and Agnostics, as well.” (Pg. 140)

He concludes, “As Deists continue to awaken more and more people by connecting with their already present, innate, God-given reason to the reality of Deism, Deism will continue to grow and to help people to develop much better lives and a much better world… Gone will be the religious belief that God chose one group of people to be God’s favorite people at the expense of everyone else. No longer will people live in fear … that people who do not believe as they do will be burned for eternity in hell by God. Children will no longer be infected with guilty by being taught that they were born evil and God had to suffer and die on a cross for them. Instead they will be taught that The Supreme Intelligence/God designed them to live happy and meaningful lives that are full of purpose and equipped them to do so by giving them the gifts of life and reason and that both should be used to the very fullest extent possible… As Deists it’s our privilege to educate other people about this Deistic freedom and progress they have waiting for them.” (Pg. 144)

This book will be “must reading” for those interested in a contemporary expression of Deism. (One caveat: Mr. Johnson is rather anti-Israel; e.g., pg. 20.)
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Re: Does God Exist? Is there any proof or evidence?

Post by Winston »

Here's what Einstein said about Atheism and his beliefs about the divine.

https://www.goodreads.com/quotes/263668 ... e-world-it

"I am not an Atheist. I do not know if I can define myself as a Pantheist. The problem involved is too vast for our limited minds. May I not reply with a parable? The human mind, no matter how highly trained, cannot grasp the universe. We are in the position of a little child, entering a huge library whose walls are covered to the ceiling with books in many different tongues. The child knows that someone must have written those books. It does not know who or how. It does not understand the languages in which they are written. The child notes a definite plan in the arrangement of the books, a mysterious order, which it does not comprehend, but only dimly suspects. That, it seems to me, is the attitude of the human mind, even the greatest and most cultured, toward God. We see a universe marvelously arranged, obeying certain laws, but we understand the laws only dimly. Our limited minds cannot grasp the mysterious force that sways the constellations. I am fascinated by Spinoza's Pantheism. I admire even more his contributions to modern thought. Spinoza is the greatest of modern philosophers, because he is the first philosopher who deals with the soul and the body as one, not as two separate things."

― Albert Einstein

What Thomas Paine, a Deist, said about God and his Creation.

https://www.goodreads.com/quotes/138466 ... -our-ideas

"It is only in the CREATION that all our ideas and conceptions of a word of God can unite. The Creation speaketh an universal language, independently of human speech or human language, multiplied and various as they be. It is an ever existing original, which every man can read. It cannot be forged; it cannot be counterfeited; it cannot be lost; it cannot be altered; it cannot be suppressed. It does not depend upon the will of man whether it shall be published or not; it publishes itself from one end of the earth to the other. It preaches to all nations and to all worlds; and this word of God reveals to man all that is necessary for man to know of God.

Do we want to contemplate his power? We see it in the immensity of the creation. Do we want to contemplate his wisdom? We see it in the unchangeable order by which the incomprehensible Whole is governed. Do we want to contemplate his munificence? We see it in the abundance with which he fills the earth. Do we want to contemplate his mercy? We see it in his not withholding that abundance even from the unthankful. In fine, do we want to know what God is? Search not the book called the scripture, which any human hand might make, but the scripture called the Creation."

― Thomas Paine, The Age of Reason

So you see folks, the most intellectual and insightful people in the world were not atheists. Just like I said. That should tell you something.
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Re: Does God Exist? Is there any proof or evidence?

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Check out my FUN video clips in Russia and SE Asia and Female Encounters of the Foreign Kind video series and Full Russia Trip Videos!

Join my Dating Site to meet thousands of legit foreign girls at low cost!

"It takes far less effort to find and move to the society that has what you want than it does to try to reconstruct an existing society to match your standards." - Harry Browne
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Re: Does God Exist? Is there any proof or evidence?

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What made the world's most famous atheist change his mind about atheism.





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Re: Does God Exist? Is there any proof or evidence?

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More on Anthony Flew's conversion to Theism.





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Re: Does God Exist? Is there any proof or evidence?

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Anthony Flew's Parable of the Invisible Gardener



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