Why is the Bible Called "God's Word" When Everyone Knows MEN Wrote It? 8 Key Points to Consider.

[Winston]

I have a simple and obvious question. Why do people, especially Christians, call the Bible "the word of God" when everyone knows it was written by MEN? How does something written by men constitute "the word of God"? Christians have never really explained this logically. What's the basis of that? People who believe that just take it as a given, like 2+2=4 because they are told that and their Church says so. But if you think about it for a moment, it makes no sense, because nothing written by men, especially anonymous men, can be the word of God. If it was written by men then it's the word of men -- and dubious anonymous men at that, with their own agenda, biases, and beliefs. Why would such authors be even credible? How come Christians never ask this question? For them, questioning it is like questioning 2+2=4.

I think that deep down, if you want it to be true, then you accept it and take it as a given. In other words, it's true because it's true. It's a closed LOOP that short circuits your reasoning, and highly circular of course. But it doesn't matter to them, it's true because it's true. Same with the Koran and Book of Mormon, their followers also believe that it's the word of God simply because it is. If you ask Mormon Missionaries why the Book of Mormon is the word of God, they will tell you the same, that it simply is and so you can feel it because we all feel the truth, just like you can feel that fire is hot and ice is cold. It simply is. That's subjective of course. They have no logical arguments to prove their faith.

The thing is, if God had a word, he could write it himself or have his secretary in heaven do it. Why would he depend on anonymous dubious men? I would never ask someone else to write my word for me. No way. If I saw God writing the Bible himself in heaven and then giving it to me, then I'd consider it to be God's word. But not a bunch of anonymous men who wrote it over thousands of years and then revised and updated it many times afterward. No way jose. That simply makes no sense and is ludicrous if you think about it.

Some key points about this to consider, especially for Christians:

1. First, here's a kicker for you: The Bible itself does NOT claim to be God's word in its entirely. Only Christians claim that, NOT the Bible itself. Christians can cite two Bible verses that mention the scriptures being "inspired by God" or "given by inspiration of God" (2 Timothy 3:16, 2 Peter 1: 20-21). However, inspiration is NOT dictation. It's not like a boss dictating a letter to his secretary. If a sunset inspires me to paint it, that does not mean the sun painted it, I am still the one who did the painting. So inspiration does not mean God's word.

Moreover, the term "scriptures" can refer to a number of things. It does not mention the OT or NT nor does it specify which of the many books are valid "scriptures". It also cannot refer to all 66 books of the King James Bible, because it wasn't even compiled until the 1600s by King James of England. So it's vague and nebulous as to what "scriptures" refer to. And of course, Jesus himself never said the Bible was God's word. Nor did he write anything down.

2. Regardless of what "inspiration" or "scriptures" mean, two Bible verses does NOT magically transform the whole Bible into "God's word". I can write two verses in one minute that say that everything I say is "given by inspiration of God" but that wouldn't prove anything. It definitely would NOT prove that I was infallible. So even if the Bible claimed to be God's word (which it does not) that doesn't make it so. Anyone can write anything, as we all know.

3. There are three Bible verses that say it is NOT God's word. Paul says in three of his epistles that his words are HIS opinion only, not God's. (1 Corinthians 7:12, 1 Corinthians 7:25, 2 Corinthians 11:17) This technically proves that every word of the Bible is NOT God's word. See these three verses here: https://www.debunkingskeptics.com/Debun ... /Page5.htm
So 3 against 2 means the verses that say it is not God's word outnumbers the verses that imply that it is! lol.

Furthermore, if you look at Paul's Epistles, he said he was writing personal letters to the churches at the time. He never said he was writing canonical scripture to be deemed as "God's infallible word" for all time. So even the Bible doesn't agree with Evangelical Christian doctrine. But it depends on what part of the Bible you mean though, because the Bible is not one book, it is a collection of 66 books written by many different men, and does not all say the same thing, but many different things, which is to be expected when many men authored it. That's what Christians don't get, they assume the Bible is one book with one coherent message that came intact out of nowhere, which is lucicrous.

4. Even if we hypothetically assume that God Almighty, the Creator of the Universe, wrote every word of the Bible, that doesn't mean it is infallible or perfect or all true. A creator is not automatically perfect just because he is a creator. That's like saying the team that created RPG online gaming must be perfect because they are the creators. Or that Bill Gates must be perfect and infallible because he created Microsoft. Or that Steve Jobs is perfect and infallible just because he created Apple. The logic doesn't follow and is not warranted.

The Church just has to declare the Creator to be perfect in order to give itself authority and to make you feel like a guilty sinner that needs a savior of course. Otherwise their religion cannot be justified. They do it out of necessity, not because it's true. So it's all about CONTROL, NOT TRUTH! And a FEAR based, abusive control system at that! It's a religion that makes you self-deprecate yourself just because you were born with original sin just because Adam and Eve ate the forbidden fruit off the forbidden tree. It's really dumb and insane if you think about it. How can any normal sane person buy that?

Furthermore, if we go by the basic logic described in Thomas Paine's "Age of Reason" treatise, we can know the Creator by his Creation, not by a man made book of text. Simply put, the Creation is a reflection of the Creator. That is basic logic. If we go by that, then we can easily conclude that an imperfect world like ours must have come from an imperfect Creator too. Likewise, since we are made in God's image supposedly, and mankind is imperfect containing good and bad qualities, that means that the Creator too must be imperfect and contain good and bad qualities. Again the logic follows. There's no way around this. And no, saying that the world is imperfect because of the "Fall", whereby Adam and Eve ate the forbidden fruit does NOT negate this basic logic nor prove anything in any way. At best, that story is metaphorical and contains archetypes, as all great comparative religion scholars have said, such as Carl Jung, Joseph Campbell, Huston Smith, Alan Watts, and Manly P. Hall. A story or legend doesn't prove anything.

So you see, even if God wrote the Bible himself and gave it to us, that would not make it infallible, perfect or totally accurate. Anyone can be wrong, even a Creator. That may be blasphemous to say, but it's true and totally logical, as basic as 2+2=4.

5. Now I know that Christian apologists like to cite fulfilled Bible prophecies as proof of the Bible being God's word. But that doesn't hold water either. Because most of the alleged prophecies in the Bible were not even prophecies, and many were interpreted after the fact, and many prophecies have failed too. For example, verses in Psalms were taken out of context to refer to Jesus when they were obviously not as anyone can see. And there are failed prophecies too, like the prophecy in Ezekiel that Nebuchadnezzar would destroy the island of Tyre. But he never did. Tyre still exists today. And only Alexander the Great was able to conquer it for a while, not Nebuchadnezzar.

More importantly, the prophecies about the Messiah in the Old Testament predicted a Warrior Messiah that would lead Israel to military victory and make it into a superpower. Any Jewish Rabbi can tell you this, and any Christian historian, scholar, or apologist will also agree and admit that the Pharisees of Jesus' time were expecting a Warrior Messiah as well because that's what their scriptures said. It's an obvious fact. So Jesus obviously did NOT fulfill the messianic prophecies of the OT Bible. His followers didn't know what to do about that, so they had to reinterpret the whole Old Testament to fit that of a crucified Messiah who rose from the dead and ascended into the heavens, never to be seen again. Every objective neutral scholar of Christian knows this, such as top Bible scholar Dr. Bart Ehrman, who has written many books about this. This is assuming that Jesus and his followers existed of course, which cannot totally be proven either.

Furthermore, even if there are amazing prophecies that came true in the Bible, that would not prove it to be infallible or authoritative. Other great works such as the Prophecies of Nostradamus or St. Malachi, have made accurate predictions that came true, but they were not infallible or accurate about everything. In ancient Greece, the Oracle of Delphi was accurate about many of her prophcies too. But that didn't make her God, it just meant she was gifted and attuned to higher frequencies, perhaps to the plane of the Akashic Records. And many famous psychics, such as Jean Dixon or Sylvia Browne and many others, have made amazing predictions that came true too. That only meant that they had some gifts and talents of a psychic nature, not that they were infallible or God. Even the best psychics are not always right and they admit that.

Also just because someone has supernatural powers, like Jesus allegedly did in the Gospels, doesn't mean they are God or infallible. The infamous black magician Alesiter Crowley had occult powers too, according to those who knew him, but that didn't make him God or the Creator or infallible. Just a gifted magician and occultist. And to give an analogy from Star Wars, just because Darth Vader or the Jedi can move objects with the Force, doesn't make them God or infallible either. Beings with super powers are still fallible and imperfect.

So you see, the logic doesn't follow here. Christians are just grasping at straws to try to justify their belief that their religion and their Bible is infallible and God, in order to validate their faith. There's no real logic or rationale behind it. One of the core fallacies Christians have is that they see the Bible and God the Creator as one and the same, they cannot separate those two. They venerate the Bible as if it were God himself, which is ludicrous if you think about it because it was written by many men over a long period of time. Look up the "Documentary Hypothesis" of who wrote the Bible for more info.

6. What Christians also never realize is that even if their Bible was divinely inspired by a supernatural being, that does NOT mean that the entity that inspired it MUST be the one and only Creator of the universe. In the 4th dimensional astral realm around us, are innumerable varieties of entities, many of which are parasitical and prey on us and deceive us. Any one of those entities could have inspired the authors of the Bible. There's no logical reason to believe that it had to be the one and only Creator of the universe. And even if God the Father did inspire the Bible, that doesn't make it infallible, because there's no logical reason to believe our Creator is perfect anyway. Since this world is imperfect and creation is a reflection of the Creator, then it logically follows that the Creator must be imperfect as well. Likewise, since we are made in God's image supposedly, and mankind is imperfect containing good and bad qualities, that means that the Creator too must be imperfect and contain good and bad qualities. Again the logic follows. There's no way around this, oh and no the Fall in the Garden of Eden story doesn't get around that. Sorry.

What's funny is that Christians think the Book of Mormon or the Koran were inspired by a false entity or deceiving spirit, and hence a "false gospel" but they never consider that their own scriptures and Bible could also be inspired by a false entity or deceiving spirit too. It's a double standard of course. They can only attack other religions' texts, but never their own. Total folly.

7. Even if the Bible was channeled from above, why not trust all channeled material? What about Seth Speaks, A Course in Miracles, the Urantia Book, and the Law of One book series? They are all channeled too. The Law of One series actually makes sense, a lot more sense than the Bible. And we know who its authors are, they are 3 people who are considered credible and honest and named, unlike the mostly anonymous people who wrote the Bible. Christians like to say that you should not trust channeled sources, but they forget that the Bible was channeled too, or alleges to be. So what gives the "channeled" books of the Bible any credibility? Because the Church says so? lol

Moreover, the Bible also contains verses justifying astrology, the occult, reincarnation, etc. contrary to what Christians believe. They forget that their religion evolved over time, and was not originally the Evangelical American version they have today. In the past, people in the Bible did believe in divination, the occult, astrology, reincarnation, etc. because those were common beliefs at the time. In fact, reincarnation was part of early Christianity until 553 CE when the Pope told Emperor Justinian to remove the doctrine of reincarnation so the Church could have more power over souls. But early church fathers like Origen said that St. Peter claimed that Jesus taught reincarnation and that Peter passed this info on to others, who then told others, until the info reached Origen himself. It's in his writings if you want to research it. Christians falsely assume though that if reincarnation is not part of Christianity now then it never was, because their Evangelical Christianity has always been the same, which just isn't so.

8. Even if the Bible is mostly meant to be taken literally for the most part, that doesn't mean the Evangelical Christian interpretation of it (which was made in the USA and didn't become mainstream until 1910) is the only correct one. As you know, there are many different interpretations of the Bible. That's why there are tens of thousands of different Christian denominations (over 30k I last heard). You see, you could take a team of the most logical rational brilliant people, and have them all read the Bible, and they'd all come to different intepretations of it on various issues. So there is no single correct interpretation of it that is objective and correct. Even if you do what Christians say and "let the Holy Spirit" interpret the Bible for you, you would still get different interpretations among believers who are each "filled with the Holy Spirit". (so much for the "Holy Spirit" lol) Even if they all agreed on the core teachings, with only minor differences, it is still subjective, because anyone can find verses in the Bible to justify anything, even slavery or stoning people to death for minor infractions. It's a dangerous book to take literally, because there are many terrible verses in the OT and some in the NT too.

Conclusion and Core Lessons for You:

So you see, Christians lose from every angle of this issue. They have no logical or valid basis for claiming the Bible to be infallible or the "Word of God". The few reasons their apologists try to give don't hold water, as explained above. Did I miss anything? Do any Christians out there have any evidence or logical arguments why the Bible is the "Word of God" that I didn't cover yet or address? If so, please post them below. I'm open to hearing all arguments, theories, and reasons. I'm not asking for absolute proof, just a logical reason or valid argument. Is that so much to ask? Otherwise, if you have nothing, then you have to admit that you are using circular closed loop reasoning in assuming the Bible to be the word of God, in that "it's true because it's true", which can be said about anything and any religion, including Islam and Mormonism. So why not believe every religion too? You see what I mean?

That's why it's best and the least problematic to take the Bible as allegory and metaphor. It has archetypal meaning only, but is not to be taken as literal truth or be deemed as infallible or authoritative. This is what all great genius philosophers and all the top comparative religion/mythology scholars have done, such as Carl Jung, Joseph Campbell, Huston Smith, Alan Watts, Manly P. Hall, Rudolf Steiner, etc. If all the greatest minds and wisest people agree on something, then you can bet there's a very good reason for it. No great genius in history has ever agreed with the dogma that the Bible is literally true, infallible and authoritative. Try to find even one. You can't. The greatest geniuses in history, such as Einstein, Tesla, Newton, Leonardo DaVinci, Thomas Edison, Benjamin Franklin, etc. all saw religion as metaphorically true, not literally true. None were devout dogmatic Christians or materialistic Atheists. They all believed the truth was beyond both man-made extremes. Only people of lower consciousness and narrow simple minds think the truth is at either man-made extreme. People of higher consciousness and wisdom know better. Consider that please. That's the wisdom I'd like to impart to you. Think about it and meditate on it and you will see that what I say makes sense.

Also consider this basic axiom: "Truth is never in extremes, it's usually somewhere in the middle or beyond both extremes." That especially goes for extreme belief systems that are highly problematic, like dogmatic fundamentalist Christianity or dogmatic Atheism (the kind that Richard Dawkins promotes), both of which are highly flawed, problematic, and unproven, and are mere personal philosophies, NOT based on logic, reason, or fact. So the key lesson is: Don't get trapped into a false dichotomy like Christianity vs. Atheism, and the closed loop false assumption that "If one is false or too problematic, then the other must be true" which lower minds are trapped into. Try to rise above that false dichotomy. That's my advice. Hope I've given you something to consider and think about.

Thanks for reading.

[TruthSeeker]

All of the Bible is not the Word of God, but it contains the Word of God. For instance, the Bible quotes satan. That is not the Word of God, but it's an accurate representation of what satan said. It also quotes men. That is not the Word of God but is an accurate representation of what men said.

I suppose the only real Word of God is the Ten Commandments as God wrote them with his finger on tables of stone.

And Jesus, because we are taught He is God the Son. So everything He said is the Word of God.

The rest, for instance Peter, or Paul is inspiration of God. They were moved by the Holy Spirit to write their letters and epistles. Even Peter and Paul had a disagreement. So that is up for interpretation.

That is why you need the Holy Spirit to help you rightly divide the Word of Truth. (2 Timothy 2:15)

[Winston]

But truthseeker. How do u know those are God's words if men wrote them? Where are the original ten commandments tablets written by God?

The ten commandments do not say there is no other God. It merely says you shall not worship them.

Son of God is not the same as God. Jesus wasnt declared God until the Council of Nicea in 325 AD. How can a son be the same person as the father? That makes no sense. Its just a way of deifying Jesus so he has authority.

How do u know the Bible is accurate?

The problem with the holy spirit is that 10 devout Christians can be filled with the holy spirit yet all come to different interpretations of the Bible. So that doesnt prove anything. There are still over 30,000 denominations. So much for the holy spirit.

[TruthSeeker]

1 John 3:1 Behold, what manner of love the Father hath bestowed upon us, that we should be called the sons of God: therefore the world knoweth us not, because it knew him not.

That is not the same as God the Son.

How do u know the Bible is accurate?

John 6:63

[Winston]

1 John 3:1 Behold, what manner of love the Father hath bestowed upon us, that we should be called the sons of God: therefore the world knoweth us not, because it knew him not.

That is not the same as God the Son.

How do u know the Bible is accurate?

John 6:63

So the Bible is accurate and true because some verses say so? No other valid reason? Do you even understand this meme?

[TruthSeeker]

It's a stupid meme because it's not true. The Bible does not prove the existence of God.

The Bible says the heavens declare the glory of God; and the firmament shews his handywork. (Psalms 19:1).

When you go out there and see the night sky and see all the stars. That proves the Creator.

Psalms 14:1

[Winston]

Reply from an expat friend of mine:

"First of all the Bible wasn’t written by just men they were the Disciple of Jesus? Jesus didn’t write thing down he preached from the heart and the disciples when they remembered the words later because they knew they needed to let people know what was said ?
Your analogies from fire and 2+2 are no comparison one is the law of nature and the natural world the other is the law of the sprit world
1. I already answered that it was the 12 disciples remembered and inspired by god
2. Already answered
3. Already answered
4. Is just wrong if God wrote it then it is Gods word but like I said the original 12 wrote the Bible and others put them together to make the Bible and if they added to it or took away from it then they will suffer for that
5. Many prophecies about Israel have come true already and warrior Israel has been surrounded by people that hate them and could it would seem walk all over that tiny nation but they can’t there’s a reason for that they are the chosen . Logic is a worlds way of understanding things but the spiritual world is much different like I told you about dying that wasn’t logic or a dream or reasoning because I had no knowledge people I saw there were dead sure some I knew were dead but not all the dead I knew were there ?
6. reincarnation not sure we’re you get that one but astrology science of telling time and direction as far as future events would. E good crops bad weather for boating…
7. Not everything in the Bible is truth but everything is true"

[Winston]

It's a stupid meme because it's not true. The Bible does not prove the existence of God.

The Bible says the heavens declare the glory of God; and the firmament shews his handywork. (Psalms 19:1).

When you go out there and see the night sky and see all the stars. That proves the Creator.

Psalms 14:1

I agree with u that the universe seems to be divinely ordered. The anthropic principle proves an intelligent designer if u research it. Einstein agreed and said there must be a divine intelligence that ordered the universe. No doubt about it. But he didn't believe in a personal God or organized religion.

However that doesnt prove the Bible or Christianity, or that Jesus is the only way to God, or that the Bible is infallible and the word of God, and that all non-Christians go to hell, etc. Thats my point. Don't you get it?

[Winston]

What Christians also never realize is that even if their Bible was divinely inspired by a supernatural being, that does NOT mean that the entity that inspired it MUST be the one and only Creator of the universe. In the 4th dimensional astral realm around us, are innumerable varieties of entities, many of which are parasitical and prey on us and deceive us. Any one of those entities could have inspired the authors of the Bible. There's no logical reason to believe that it had to be the one and only Creator of the universe. And even if God the Father did inspire the Bible, that doesn't make it infallible, because there's no logical reason to believe our Creator is perfect anyway. Since this world is imperfect and creation is a reflection of the Creator, then it logically follows that the Creator must be imperfect as well. Likewise, since we are made in God's image supposedly, and mankind is imperfect containing good and bad qualities, that means that the Creator too must be imperfect and contain good and bad qualities. Again the logic follows. There's no way around this, oh and no the Fall in the Garden of Eden story doesn't get around that. Sorry.

What's funny is that Christians think the Book of Mormon or the Koran were inspired by a false entity or deceiving spirit, and hence a "false gospel" but they never consider that their own scriptures and Bible could also be inspired by a false entity or deceiving spirit too. It's a double standard of course. They can only attack other religions' texts, but never their own. Total folly.

[Winston]

An article I wrote before where I summarized the standard Christian apologetic response to the question of "Why is the Bible God's word?" which I used before too when I was an Evangelical Christian. This is a paraphrase of what they usually say in my own words.

https://www.debunkingskeptics.com/Debun ... Page36.htm

Question:

"How do you know the Bible is true? How do you know it is the word of God?"

Christian Answer:

"Because the Bible says it is God's word. The Bible is internally consistent and harmonious. Its writers, who lived thousands of years apart, agree on the same message. It also contains many fulfilled prophecies from the Old Testament that were fulfilled in the New Testament. The odds of that happening by chance, according to Christian theologians, are astronomical. The Bible also agrees with history, archaeology and science. It is the only book that is complete with a chronicle of humanity's history, salvation, and future predicament.

The Bible has changed millions of lives. The Gospel writers and Apostles were willing to die for their faith. Now who would die for something they knew wasn't true? As C.S. Lewis, a Christian writer, put it: "No one would die for a lie." The first Christians, many of which were martyred, also died for their faith.

The Apostles saw Jesus rise from the dead. 500 people witnessed his resurrection, according to the Apostle Paul. The resurrection is what our faith stands on. It is what sets Jesus apart from the rest and proves that he was the real deal and the true Son of God. Muhammad's body is still in his tomb, while Jesus' tomb is empty.

But the biggest reason for me is that I've experienced how Jesus changed my life. The Holy Spirit lives within me. I feel its truth and have experienced Jesus in my heart. I was at the very bottom of my life when I first heard the Gospel. When I accepted Christ, I was born again. My sins were washed away and my life began anew. I became right with God and felt a huge burden lifted off my shoulders. I now have a personal relationship with God, not a religion. I am a living testimony to God's truth and love. And so are many of my brothers and sisters in the Lord. We are witnesses for Christ.

We can also trust that the Bible is still in its original form, because God would protect his word and not let it be changed or altered by people. The Dead Sea Scrolls, found in the 1940's, contained Biblical manuscripts from over a thousand years ago that were relatively the same as they are today, demonstrating that the Bible hasn't changed much.

The decision of whether to accept Christ or not is the most important decision of a person's life. Choose carefully. There are eternal consequences at stake. Jesus came and died for your sins. He claimed to be the only way to God. What will you do with that? Either he was a liar, a lunatic, or he was right. If he was the first two, then you can forget him. But if he was who he said he was, then your eternal destiny depends on whether you accept him or not. Remember that.

Now, based on what Jesus did and said in the Gospels, it does not appear that he was a liar in any way. He did everything he said he would, and kept his promises. And he does not appear to be crazy in any way either, for his teachings were filled with great wisdom. Therefore, the most logical conclusion is that he was Lord. He fulfilled the OT prophecies, and rose from the dead, proving that he was the one - the true Savior whom God sent to bring forgiveness and eternal salvation to mankind. Will you accept him or reject him? The choice is yours."

For my critique and analysis of why these points are fallacious, see here:

https://www.debunkingskeptics.com/Debun ... Page36.htm

[Winston]

Some important key points I posted on YouTube under videos that ridiculously claim that everything outside of the Bible and Christianity is Luciferian or Satanic:

I hate people who say that everything outside the Bible is Luciferian/Satanic. Actually, the Bible and Evangelical Christianity are Luciferian/Satanic too. A tell tale sign is that it is centered around motifs such as fear, threat of punishment, guilt tripping, human sacrifice (of Jesus) as redemption (which goes against Hebrew law), and impossible standards such as God requiring perfection to get into heaven, and then proclaiming that no one is worthy even if they are good people, which is totally unreasonable and unfair. (especially since the God of the Bible is anything but perfect himself, evidenced by his actions and decrees) It puts you in an impossible situation and then blames you for it. I've known people who do that, they put others in an impossible no win situation, like between a rock and a hard place, and then blame them for it. They were sick, deranged, toxic people infested by the Archons. Such actions are Luciferian, Satanic, and black magic done on innocent victims. No good God would be involved in that. Only Lucifer/Satan would. There is more than one God so the Christians are presumptuous to think their God is the only God or that their God is "the God" rather than a god with a small "g" or an alien overlord such as the Annunaki or even a fallen god.

The Bible is written by man. Even if it was divinely inspired, Christians are foolish and naive if they think the powers that be cannot touch it or corrupt it. It's been corrupted many times, by the Romans, King James, etc. And is now mixed with truths and lies, with lies outnumbering the truths unfortunately. Sorry to disappoint you Christian dogmatists. But you are a fool if you think it's not corrupted and untouched by the controllers of our matrix. Every wise person knows it is. Even top secular scholars like Dr. Bart Ehrman have proven it beyond a reasonable doubt. Also even if the Bible was inspired by a supernatural being that doesn't mean that it must be the one and only creator of the universe. There are innumerable entities in the 4th and 5th dimension who could have inspired such books and other religious or channeled texts. Also inspiration is NOT the same as dictation. These are all simple things but brainwashed Christians don't get that.

Also evangelical Christians are worshipping the same God as the Freemasons. He has many names, the Egyptians called him Aton. That's the big joke that all the elites know that Christians do not. Lucifer plays both God and Satan. The devil plays good cop, bad cop and is not as dumb as Christians. He does not come out and say that he's the devil. He comes out and says he's God. If you were the devil would you tell everyone you were the devil? Or that you were God? Of course the latter. No way is Lucifer as dumb as Christians assume. If you want the truth, study Gnosticism or download the free books/audiobooks called "Divine Secret Garden" by John Panella, or the Wes Penre Papers. Look them up. They are all free. Or listen to Dr. Shmuel Asher, author of "Soul Revolution". He is close to the truth, and has a 7 part interview series on YouTube that you can listen to for free. Those materials are much closer to the truth than any religion. Not the Bible, which is heavily corrupted and only low IQ people think it is pure and untouchable by the powers that be. Even the Geneva Bible is less corrupted than the KJV Bible. Sorry but the truth is disturbing, not rosy like most people want it to be.

[Cornfed]

I have a simple and obvious question. Why do people, especially Christians, call the Bible "the word of God" when everyone knows it was written by MEN? How does something written by men constitute "the word of God"? Christians have never really explained this logically.

Probably most Christians regard the Bible as a set of histories and instructional manuals. The idea that the Bible is the inerrant word of God and sola scriptura was a Protestant attempt to provide an alternative to the divine authority of the Catholic Church, which in now irrelevant since no-one takes the divine authority of the Catholic Church seriously anyway. The whole issue should be discarded IMO. On the subject of other religious texts, there is nothing stopping Christians, unlike atheists, from thinking they got some things right.

[Winston]

I have a simple and obvious question. Why do people, especially Christians, call the Bible "the word of God" when everyone knows it was written by MEN? How does something written by men constitute "the word of God"? Christians have never really explained this logically.

Probably most Christians regard the Bible as a set of histories and instructional manuals. The idea that the Bible is the inerrant word of God and sola scriptura was a Protestant attempt to provide an alternative to the divine authority of the Catholic Church, which in now irrelevant since no-one takes the divine authority of the Catholic Church seriously anyway. The whole issue should be discarded IMO. On the subject of other religious texts, there is nothing stopping Christians, unlike atheists, from thinking they got some things right.

I thought the Biblical inerrancy doctrine came in the late 1800s to counter the teaching of Darwinian Evolution in school and academia and science? That's what history says. Before that the issue was not very big and everyone knew that a man made book was not infallible and likely to contain opinions and biases and mistakes, which is common sense since nothing written by men can be perfect or infallible. This dogma removed all common sense and reason and made Christianity ridiculous.

Christian Fundamentalism is mostly an American invention it seems. The Scopes Monkey Trial of the 1920s was an example of fundamentalism's extreme reaction to Evolution teaching.

[Winston]

Discussion of this issue with my Venetian friend Alex.

[10/4, 5:50 PM] Winston Wu: Why does the church teach that the bible is infallible? Because it has to or else its authority is undermined?
[10/4, 5:52 PM] Alex From Venice: Well, teaching a faith is easier if you can provide "a thing" that allegedly comes directly from God
[10/4, 5:55 PM] Alex From Venice: the Muslims have the Koran but they also have the "black stone" which all Muslim are required to pay homage at least once in their life and is held at the Mecca
[10/4, 5:56 PM] Alex From Venice: Muslim religion is the most pagan among the monotheistic religions
[10/4, 5:56 PM] Alex From Venice: though the don't worship statues or images, yet they are mandated to worship a stone
[10/4, 5:59 PM] Winston Wu: But why doesnt the church admit that the bible has been corrupted and edited over time?
[10/4, 6:04 PM] Alex From Venice: cannot, if the Bible comes from God it can't be corrupted, or else God him her self would be corruptible
[10/5, 10:12 AM] Winston Wu: Anything can be corrupted. That's a false assumption. They like certainty.
[10/5, 10:17 AM] Alex From Venice: Anything that belong to the human reality. But God is beyond. God isn't corruptible and it is God's word. That's the assumption
[10/5, 10:20 AM] Alex From Venice: I could accept though that the Bible isn't corrupted if there's, not saying evidence or hints, but at the least a tradition that affirms that God wrote the Bible him herself or that he she directly dictated the words. But there isn't such tradition. At best the tradition affirms that the texts in the Bible have been written by authors "inspired" by God / Holy spirit
[10/5, 10:22 AM] Alex From Venice: So it's not even based on tradition a plausible assumption that the Bible is "God's words". Even Saint Paul, who's letter's are included in the Bible, wouldn't dare to state that his letters are God's words.
[10/5, 10:24 AM] Alex From Venice: Saint Paul's letters are definitely NOT God's words, yet they are quoted many times by fundamentalists to "prove" something about God's will, and other God's related matters
[10/5, 6:48 PM] Winston Wu: Yeah but even if it's gods word, man can corrupt it after its written.
The reason the church has to say that its uncorrupted is because u will question everything if its not perfect.
However buddhism and Hinduism do not need to claim to be infallible. So why does Christianity?
[10/5, 6:50 PM] Alex From Venice: No, saying that something from God can be corrupted by man makes God "weak"
[10/5, 6:50 PM] Alex From Venice: What is made by God can't be spoiled by men
[10/5, 6:50 PM] Winston Wu: But i could say god is weak because he lets the CIA do stuff without accountability too. Or because he allowed 2 world wars to happen in the 20th century.
[10/5, 6:51 PM] Alex From Venice: if men can spoil God's word then it's either not a real God or nod God's word
[10/5, 6:52 PM] Alex From Venice: no, you can't because CIA isn't a direct creation of GOD. The Bible is
[10/5, 6:52 PM] Alex From Venice: God isn't accountable for what humans do.
[10/5, 7:09 PM] Alex From Venice: it's just the outcome of men's nature
[10/5, 7:09 PM] Winston Wu: But he created humans so hes responsible. Right? Why didnt he create a perfect world that was not corruptible by one trivial mistake? Any computer programmer who does that is considered terrible.

[Winston]

Some new thoughts and revelations of mine:

Last week I met a new Italian friend and some Taiwanese Christians from Taipei at a restaurant. I noticed that when I asked them how they know the Bible is God's word they can't think of any answer. It simply is and thats that. I don't understand that. Can anyone explain why?

How is it that Christians don't even know why they believe the Bible is God's word? They just believe it and thats that. No reason. It simply is. They see it as a given and default fact, like fire is hot and ice is cold. Am i missing something? Its as if everyone is just a program and follows their program, same as computer characters in a simulation or matrix.

Even in America Christians cannot answer this simple question. I once debated two American Christian missionaries in Moscow and they could not answer such simple questions either. They just wanted me to believe in Jesus and accept him as my savior. The Christians in my forum are similar and cannot answer these simple questions either. The Taiwanese Christians I talked to said the same thing. They said that i shouldn't think too much and just believe and accept Jesus as savior. Why? Shouldn't everything have a logical and valid basis?

If not then why do Christian apologist authors in America like Lee Strobel and Josh McDowell and William Lane Craig claim that Christianity is a reasonable faith that is rational? Even CS Lewis in his book Mere Christianity said that Christianity is a rational faith. So western Christian authors do claim that it is rational to be Christian. If that's so then how come they cant answer a simple question such as: Why is the Bible God's true and sacred word when we all know that men wrote it?

That makes no sense. I wonder if this is a smoking gun that most people are just programs who never think or questions, like NPCs? How else can u explain this? Especially since many Christians are intelligent and educated, like the authors i mentioned above, and not stupid people at all? Any explanation? Have any of you wondered about this too?

Btw I also came to a new realization after talking to intelligent Christians like the Italian expat here. I don't think Christians are brainwashed like atheists claim and that i assumed too. It cannot be that simple. Because if u are brainwashed or hypnotized the effect is only short term and temporary. Eventually u shake it off and realize you were manipulated and then u return to normal. Plus most Christians are not great orators or skilled hypnotists. They are simple humble people who desire to share their Gospel. They do not utilize hypnosis or mind control like atheists assume.

Brainwashing and hypnosis do not result in long term beliefs or lifetime beliefs, such as the case with many Christians. So something deeper must be going on right? Like some metaphysical force at work. Of course Christians will claim that it is God working through the holy spirit. However that doesnt explain why other religions like Mormonism and Islam are able to win long term converts just by sharing their gospel without using any mind control or hypnosis. Thats what they never take into account. Nor does it explain why many people resonate with other religions such as Buddhism. For example famous actors like Richard Gere and Keanu Reeves claim that Buddhism fulfills their soul and makes the most sense to them. So if Christianity is the only truth then why doesnt it resonate or connect with most people? This is a key point that fundamentalist Christians dont take into account and refuse to consider.

So my theory is this........

My theory is that the real reason Christians are Christians is not because of free will or reason or logic or brainwashing or mind control. Its simply their destiny to be Christian so when they hear the gospel it instantly resonates and connects with them. Just like it did for me in 1983 when i first accepted Christ at a Christian summer school. I always assumed that i was brainwashed but now i realize its not that simple. I was simply meant to become a Christian at the time so it felt right and true to me. But when i graduated high school it no longer resonated with me so i started fishing for excuses and reasons to justify leaving the faith and why it is not true.

If you think about it this makes sense and fits everything you see around you. People are essentially actors in life playing a role that the matrix or simulation or God or whatever assigns to them. Thats why people usually look like what they are. For example Bill Gates looks like a computer geek, because he IS a computer geek. Football players look like football players, cops look like cops, military men look like military men, computer nerds look like computer nerds, etc. When u are happy or sad u look happy or sad. So people tend to look like what they really are. Christians also have a Christian face. Even my mom noticed this. When she saw Dr. William Lane Craig and Dr. Kent Hovind on TV she said they have Christian faces so they must be Christian people. Thats true. I also notice that when Christians are eating at a restaurant that i can identify them too from their faces and appearance alone. They have that devout Christian look.

Buddhists have a certain look too. Look at Richard Gere or Jack Kornfield or Eckhart Tolle or other Buddhist authors and u will notice that they have a Buddhist look which is different from Christian looks. Or an eastern spirituality look. You know what i mean. So people look like what they are. They are what they are because it is meant to be. There is a hidden order in the matrix that assigns different roles and functions to everyone. Thats why people fit their stereotype usually and why cliques in high school are arranged by stereotypes - jocks, nerds, preps, etc. And people tend to fit their stereotypes. But if u are a healthy balance between extremes and stereotypes like me then u are a misfit and u dont fit anywhere.

I know this sounds fatalistic but its true. Im not saying theres no free will. There probably is some free will but u have to be really awakened to utilize it, not just follow your program. Even science says that most things u do are part of a programmed routine in your subconscious mind. That is obvious. So no most people do not have much free will if any. That's obvious. So free will is only for a few and is a small factor for most. It is not all encompassing like Americans like to believe.

What do u think of my theory? Does it make sense and fit reality and common experience? Any flaws in it? Do you have a better theory?

For example David Wood is an intelligent Christian that u like. Dr. William Lane Craig is very intelligent too. So they cannot be brainwashed or mind controlled, like Roberto assumes. They are simply meant to be Christians so they are. Thats why it connects with them but not with everyone. Do u see what i mean?

The mistake that David Wood makes is that he assumes that just because Christianity resonated with him, that it ought to resonate with everyone. Thats where his core fallacy is and its based on the belief that there can only be one truth and one way, which is a big mistake.

I forgot to mention something significant in my Christian deconversion story of 1992. One time i was reading this big book called "Intangible Evidence". I had just gotten out of high school and was enjoying my newfound freedom and exploration. The book contained a lot of interesting info on psychic phenomenon, astrology, the occult, etc. My mind was fascinated and excited and blown away by it. However part of me felt scared and guilty too. Because i had been a Christian since 1983 and was not supposed to be interested in this stuff. It was condemned by Christianity and considered demonic and satanic. So i was inviting the wrath of God by reading this book. This gave me mixed feelings. Something didnt seem right about all this conflict. Why couldn't i pursue my intellectual hobbies and interests without feeling fear and guilt, I wondered. Something didn't seem right.

I think at that point subconsciously I started fishing for reasons and excuses why my Christian faith was not what i was told, in order to resolve such conflicts, and give myself more intellectual freedom to pursue my interests. It was at that point I started reading stuff that was aimed at debunking Christianity. In the mid 1990s when the internet came out, I started reading articles by Robert Ingersoll, a 19th century author who heavily criticized the Bible and Christian church with powerful eloquent writings. They were very persuasive and i began to be sure that Christianity was not what i had believed. It was only then that my fear of condemnation from God began to subside. I also read articles from the secular web, which contained an archive of atheist articles debunking Christianity. They made many good points. I realized that Christianity was not as unassailable as i thought it was.

The main lesson here is that not everyone is meant to be a Christian. If u have a strong desire to study the occult or astrology or psychic phenomenon for example, like i did, then Christianity is not right for you. Just like if u have a strong desire to eat meat then vegetarianism is not right for you. Because it will restrict your freedom to be yourself and pursue what you love. The typical devout Christian for example, usually has no desire to study the occult or astrology. So they do not feel restricted from doing what they want. But if u do then obviously Christianity isnt right for you. This is what fundamentalists dont get. They assume Christianity is right for everyone and that everyone is meant to be a Christian and that that is God's will. It just isnt so.

For example, I have no desire to eat meat, so being a vegetarian is easy and natural to me. Likewise a devout Christian usually has no desire to study the occult. So its easy for them to be a Christian. You see what i mean? Someone into the occult is better suited for Paganism or Wicca or the mystery schools or ancient esoteric alchemy like ancient Egyptian spirituality, etc. So it's a mistake and fallacy to assume everyone is meant to be a Christian. Do you see what i mean? Do you agree?

What's a bit disturbing is that if Christian fundamentalists had their way, in their ideal world, everyone would be a Christian and all religious non-Christian books would be burned and destroyed. There would be no religious diversity at all. That would be a terrible thing. Don't you agree? Of course it would be, but in the ideal world of the Christian fundamentalists that would be the case. If you think about it thats pretty disturbing and sad and demented isnt it? Do Christians ever think or realize this? Even intelligent Christians like David Wood or William Lane Craig?

One more point. When Christians use arguments such as fulfilled Bible prophecies or evidence for the resurrection of Jesus to support their faith, the thing is those arent the real reasons for their belief or faith. The real reason is that the faith connects with their soul at some deeper level. And those arguments used to justify their faith are just that, reasons used to try to justify a PRE-existing belief.

This is human nature and cuts both ways though. Because if u are seeking to leave the Christian faith then u will justify it with reasons why fulfilled prophecies and resurrection arguments are flawed arguments and don't hold water, like atheists do. I have experienced this on both sides, when i was trying to justify my Christian faith and when i was trying to detach from it. So all the reasons and arguments that Christian authors and apologists give are there to justify a PRE-existing belief. They aren't the actual core reasons for or causes of their belief or faith. Do you see what I mean? Have any of you realized this too?

To use a simpler analogy, if you like someone and resonate with them, you will find reasons to justify it, such as see qualities in them that you like and find admirable. Conversely if u dislike someone you will fish for reasons to justify your dislike of them. Women especially do this and thats why they focus on trivial things when they like or dislike people, things that don't matter but they use them to justify their like or dislike of others. I've seen this countless times with women. For example, Dianne likes the core essence of who i am. So everything about me including my quirks and eccentricities, are seen in a positive light by her, even if they are weird to most people. You see what I mean?