Christianity vs Atheism vs Spirituality

Discuss religion and spirituality topics.
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Pixel--Dude
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Re: Christianity vs Atheism vs Spirituality

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Cornfed wrote:
July 26th, 2022, 6:39 am
Pixel--Dude wrote:
July 26th, 2022, 2:11 am
Cornfed wrote:
July 19th, 2022, 2:18 pm
Pixel--Dude wrote:
July 19th, 2022, 2:10 pm
Yet it makes more sense.
More sense than what? You seem to be just making up a straw man and arguing against it.
The Bible makes more sense if God sacrificed Jesus to atone for his wrong.
Jesus was incarnation of God, so you are saying that God sacrificed himself to atone to himself for the sins of humans. This makes no sense and is not stated in the Bible. It is just something you have made up.
No. What I am saying is that Yahweh offered Jesus up as a sacrifice to atone for his own wrong doings. I am suggesting Yahweh made a sacrifice to humanity for his own sins. And that is why the teachings of Jesus are so focused on forgiveness.

The issue I have with the idea of Jesus dying for our sins and being a sacrifice for us are stated in my original post on the matter. The main principle of the religion is the sacrifice of Jesus Christ. Yet given what we know about sacrifice it doesn't make sense from a logical standpoint.

There are Christians who believe Jesus is the son of God. And those, such as yourself, who believe Jesus was an incarnation of God. (Which makes no sense as Yahweh never needed an incarnated form to interact with humanity.) Maybe you can explain how the sacrifice of Jesus Christ makes sense from your perspective, instead of accusing my reflection of being a strawman argument and skirting around addressing the point.

1. A sacrifice is something valued offered up to atone for sin. The sacrifice has meaning because of the loss incurred. Jesus came back after his sacrifice so how much meaning does his sacrifice actually have?

2. Jesus was never intended to be a sacrifice and those who killed him didn't value him. Sacrifice has to be an intentional act for it to be considered as a sacrifice.

3. Jesus wasn't ours to sacrifice to begin with, he was God's. So it stands to reason that if Jesus was sacrificed it was BY God for US. To atone for his own wrong doing. But as explained the sacrifice was superficial since Yahweh knew Jesus would return to him anyway.

There is a flaw in the logic of Christians on this issue. So you think God incarnated as Jesus and sacrificed himself to atone for our sins? Is that what you believe? How does that make any sense from a logical standpoint?
You are free to make any decision you desire, but you are not free from the consequences of those decisions.
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Cornfed
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Re: Christianity vs Atheism vs Spirituality

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Pixel--Dude wrote:
July 27th, 2022, 5:12 am
No. What I am saying is that Yahweh offered Jesus up as a sacrifice to atone for his own wrong doings. I am suggesting Yahweh made a sacrifice to humanity for his own sins. And that is why the teachings of Jesus are so focused on forgiveness.
Clearly this is not the Christian perspective as God is the infallible creator and so has nothing to atone for. It is entirely something you have made up for some reason. The idea that Jesus is somewhat literally the son of God is called the Arian heresy and has been long since dealt with.
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Lucas88
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Re: Christianity vs Atheism vs Spirituality (not to mention judaism and Islam)

Post by Lucas88 »

That's an excellent post, @WilliamSmith. Thank you for the article which you quoted.

I've known for some time now that the "prophecy books" of the Bible are little more than a blueprint for Jewish world domination and that even modern Zionism has its origin largely in religious Judaism. Judaism and Zionism are inseparable. In the early to mid 2010s I came across the work of an author called Tony Malone who presented similar information as that included in the article which you quoted. He gave special attention to the book of Isaiah which envisions in the end times a resurgence of the nation of Israel following the Jews being scattered among the nations as well as a worldwide system in which all nations are subjected to the law of the Jews and foreign kings are forced to serve Zion lest they be destroyed. The book of Isaiah and other Hebrew prophecy books outline the plan for the nefarious New World Order of today. They aren't prophesizing a world of Messianic peace as delusional Christians like to believe. Like Ron Unz, Tony Malone is ethnically Jewish himself (or half-Jewish). He's one of those few good Jews who doesn't agree with what the tribal mafia is doing.

All of the Abrahamic religions are bad. They all come from the same perverse source of Judaic thought and are nothing more than hoax slave religions. While Judaism is the master program of Jewish world domination and anti-Gentilism, Christianity is simply a subversive trojan horse of the Jews, an ancient version of Judeo-Bolshevism for the weakening of the Gentile warrior spirit and all noble values with its bizarre doctrine of redemption from "sin", its demand for absolute submission to a false Jewish god, its contemptible slave morality, and its weak, suicidal, anti-life, pussifying teachings of "turn the other cheek" and "love for one's enemies". Meanwhile Islam is just an ideology of mindless fanaticism and barbarism. I think that any noble and well-constituted soul instinctively feels repulsion towards these perverse Judaic death cults.

While I agree that all anti-Zionists must put racial and religious differences aside and form a movement of pan-Gentile solidarity in the face of the multi-millennial Jewish tribal mafia, I will only agree to temporary diplomatic alliances and certainly won't entertain their doctrinal assertions. If some delusional Christian fanatics think that they're going to implement their own theocracies I am prepared to fight them too since I value freedom of thought and freedom of conscience above all else. Fortunately the Jewish hoax slave religion of Christianity is less popular than ever here in Europe. An attempt at a Christian theocracy will never gain enough popular support.

WilliamSmith wrote:
July 26th, 2022, 8:43 pm
I'm taking the liberty of expanding the topic into not just Christianity, but also the Abrahamic religions overall, including Islam and judaism, the religion of humanity's supreme mortal biological and spiritual enemies: the jews.
For what it's worth, I reiterate my own position that the #1 thing of importance is getting along with Christians and Muslims who also realize the synagogue of satan is the world's #1 problem. We need to be either friends, or at least diplomatic allies until we get the satanic jews off our backs.

But on the overall topic of Abrahamic religions, let me contribute a thing or two via other sources who have studied the Abrahamic religions in-depth for many generations, and see what you guys have to say in response (other than the obvious of self-indulgently cherry-picking points in the entire history of regions impacted by Christianity and highlighting the specific parts you think supposedly sounded the best under real or imagined theocracy, which I understand from an emotional point of view, but isn't especially convincing on an actual free-speech platform like this one):

https://russia-insider.com/en/israels-a ... le/ri22632
The Bible: Blueprint for Jewish Atrocities and Genocide


The Biblical Mind of Israel’s Founding Fathers

THE HEBREW BIBLE (Tanakh) is for the committed Jew as much a record of his ancient origins, the prism through which all Jewish history is interpreted (is not the “Holocaust” a biblical term?), and the unalterable pattern of Israel’s promising future. That is why the Bible, once the “portable fatherland” of the Diaspora Jews as Heinrich Heine put it, remains at the core of the national narrative of the Jewish State, whose founding fathers did not give it any other Constitution.

It is true that the earliest prophets of political Zionism — Moses Hess (Rome and Jerusalem, 1862), Leon Pinsker (Auto-Emancipation, 1882) and Theodor Herzl (The Jewish State, 1896) — did not draw their inspiration from the Bible, but rather from the great nationalist spirit that swept through Europe at the end of the 19th century. Pinsker and Herzl actually cared little whether the Jews colonized Palestine or any other region of the globe; the first thought about some land in North America, while the second contemplated Argentina and later Uganda. More important still than nationalism, what drove these intellectual pioneers was the persistence of Judeophobia or “anti-Semitism.”

Nevertheless, by naming his movement “Zionism,” Herzl himself was plugging it into biblical mythology: Zion is a name used for Jerusalem by biblical prophets. And after Herzl, the founders of the Yishuv (Jewish communities settled in Palestine before 1947) and later of the Jewish State were steeped in the Bible. From their point of view, Zionism was the logical and necessary end of biblical Yahwism.

“The Bible is our mandate,” Chaim Weizmann declared at the Peace Conference in Versailles in 1920, and David Ben-Gurion has made clear that he only accepted the 1947 UN Partition Plan as a temporary step toward the goal of biblical borders. In Ben-Gurion, Prophet of fire(1983), the biography of the man described as “the personification of the Zionist dream,” Dan Kurzman entitles each chapter with a Bible quote. The preface begins like this:

“The life of David Ben-Gurion is more than the story of an extraordinary man. It is the story of a Biblical prophecy, an eternal dream. […] Ben-Gurion was, in a modern sense, Moses, Joshua, Isaiah, a messiah who felt he was destined to create an exemplary Jewish state, a ‘light unto the nations’ that would help to redeem all mankind.”

For Ben-Gurion, Kurzman writes, the rebirth of Israel in 1948 “paralleled the Exodus from Egypt, the conquest of the land by Joshua, the Maccabean revolt.” Yet Ben-Gurion had never been to the synagogue, and ate pork for breakfast.

According to the rabbi leading the Bible study group that he attended, Ben-Gurion

“unconsciously believed he was blessed with a spark from Joshua’s soul.” “There can be no worthwhile political or military education about Israel without profound knowledge of the Bible,” he used to say.

He wrote in his diary in 1948, ten days after declaring independence,

“We will break Transjordan [Jordan], bomb Amman and destroy its army, and then Syria falls, and if Egypt will still continue to fight — we will bombard Port Said, Alexandria and Cairo,” then he adds: “This will be in revenge for what they did to our forefathers during biblical times.”[2] Three days after the Israeli invasion of the Sinai in 1956, he declared before the Knesset that what was at stake was “the restoration of the kingdom of David and Solomon.”

Ben-Gurion’s attachment to the Bible was shared by almost every Zionist leader of his generation and the next. Moshe Dayan, the military hero of the 1967 Six Day War, wrote a book entitled Living with the Bible (1978) in which he justified the annexation of new territory by the Bible. More recently, Israeli Education minister Naftali Bennett, a proponent of full-scale annexation of the West Bank, did the same.

Zionism is biblical by ideology, but also in practice. As Avigail Abarbanel wrote, the Zionist conquerors of Palestine

“have been following quite closely the biblical dictate to Joshua to just walk in and take everything. […] For a supposedly non-religious movement it’s extraordinary how closely Zionism […] has followed the Bible.”

The paradox is only apparent, because for Zionists, the Bible is not a religious text, but a textbook of history. And so it should be obvious to anybody paying attention that Israel’s behavior on the international scene cannot be understood without a deep inquiry into the Bible’s underlying ideology.

Prophecies and Geopolitics

Only by taking account of the biblical roots of Zionism can one understand why Zionism has never been a nationalist movement like others. It could not be, as Gilad Atzmon remarked, from the moment it defined itself as a Jewish movement, aimed at creating a “Jewish state”. Jewish exceptionalism is a biblical concept that has no equivalent in any other ethnic or religious culture.

Neither can Zionism be correctly assessed as a form of colonialism, despite Jabotinsky’s effort to do so. For colonialism seeks not to expel the natives, but to exploit them. If Zionism is colonialism, it can only be in the sense of the colonization of the world by Israel, according to the program laid out by Isaiah:

“The riches of the sea will flow to you, the wealth of the nations come to you” (60:5);

“You will suck the milk of nations, you will suck the wealth of kings” (60:16);

“You will feed on the wealth of nations, you will supplant them in their glory” (61:5-6);

“For the nation and kingdom that will not serve you will perish, and the nations will be utterly destroyed” (60:12)

Christians have been led to believe there is hope in Isaiah that, some day, all peoples “will hammer their swords into plowshares and their spears into sickles. Nations will not lift sword against nation, no longer will they learn how to make war” (Isaiah 2:4).

But more important to Zionists are the previous verses, which describe these messianic times as a Pax Judaica, when “all the nations” will pay tribute “to the mountain of Yahweh, to the house of the god of Jacob,” when “the Law will issue from Zion and the word of Yahweh from Jerusalem,” so that Yahweh will “judge between the nations and arbitrate between many peoples.”

No wonder Isaiah is the biblical prophet most often quoted by Zionists. In a statement published in the magazine Look on January 16, 1962, Ben-Gurion predicted for the next 25 years:

“All armies will be abolished, and there will be no more wars. In Jerusalem, the United Nations (a truly United Nations) will build a Shrine of the Prophets to serve the federated union of all continents; this will be the seat of the Supreme Court of Mankind, to settle all controversies among the federated continents, as prophesied by Isaiah.”

The launching of the Iraq War was a decisive step toward that goal of a new world order headquartered in Jerusalem. It was the context for a “Jerusalem Summit” held in October 2003 in the highly symbolic King David Hotel, to seal an alliance between Jewish and Christian Zionists.

The “Jerusalem Declaration” signed by its participants declared Jerusalem “the key to the harmony of civilizations,” replacing the United Nations that had become “a tribalized confederation hijacked by Third World dictatorships”:

“Jerusalem’s spiritual and historical importance endows it with a special authority to become a center of world’s unity. [. . .] We believe that one of the objectives of Israel’s divinely-inspired rebirth is to make it the center of the new unity of the nations, which will lead to an era of peace and prosperity, foretold by the Prophets.”

Three acting Israeli ministers spoke at the summit, including Benjamin Netanyahu. Richard Perle, the guest of honor, received on this occasion the Henry Scoop Jackson Award.

When Israeli leaders claim that their vision of the global future is based on the (Hebrew) Bible, we should take them seriously and study the Bible. It might help, for example, to know that according to Deuteronomy Yahweh plans to deliver to Israel “seven nations greater and mightier than [it],” adding: “you must utterly destroy them; you shall make no covenant with them, and show no mercy to them.

You shall not make marriages with them…” (7:1-2). As for the kings of these seven nations, “you shall make their name perish from under heaven” (7:24). The destruction of the “Seven Nations,” also mentioned in Joshua 24:11, is considered a mitzvah in rabbinic Judaism, included by the great Maimonides in his Book of Commandments, and it has remained a popular motif in Jewish culture, known to every Israeli school child.

It is also part of the Neocon agenda for World War IV (as Norman Podhoretz names the current global conflict in World War IV: The Long Struggle Against Islamofascism, 2007). General Wesley Clark, former commandant of NATO in Europe, wrote in his book Winning Modern Wars (2003), and repeated in numerous occasions, that one month after September 11, 2001, as he was paying a visit to Paul Wolfowitz, a Pentagon general showed him a memo “that describes how we’re gonna take out seven countries in five years, starting with Iraq, and then Syria, Lebanon, Libya, Somalia and Sudan and finishing off with Iran.”

In his September 20, 2001 speech, President Bush also targeted seven “rogue states”, but included Cuba and North Korea instead of Lebanon and Somalia. The likely explanation to that discrepancy is that Bush or his entourage refused to include Lebanon and Somalia, but that the number seven was retained for its symbolic value, as an encrypted signature.

Without question, the neocons who were writing Bush’s war agenda were Zionists of the most fanatical and Machiavellian kind. But the neocon viper’s nest is not the only place to look for crypto-Zionists infiltrated in the highest spheres of US foreign and military affairs. Consider, for example, that Wesley Clark is the son of Benjamin Jacob Kanne and the proud descendant of a lineage of rabbis.

It is hard to believe that he never heard about the Bible’s “seven nations”? Is Clark himself, together with the Amy Goodmans who interviewed him, trying to write history in biblical terms, while blaming these wars on the Pentagon’s warmongers? What’s going on, here?

A Lesson From the Books of Ezra and Nehemiah

To understand how the crypto-Zionists have hijacked the Empire’s military power into proxy wars, a lesson can be learned from Book of Ezra and its sequel, the Book of Nehemiah. At the time of Ezra, the imperial power was Persia. After the Persians had conquered Babylon in 539 BCE, some of the exiles and their descendants (42,360 people with their 7,337 servants and 200 male and female singers, according to Ezra 2:64-67) returned to Jerusalem under the protection of King Cyrus, with the project of rebuilding the Temple in Jerusalem. Thus begins the Book of Ezra:

“Yahweh roused the spirit of Cyrus king of Persia to issue a proclamation and to have it publicly displayed throughout his kingdom: ‘Cyrus king of Persia says this, Yahweh, the God of heaven, has given me all the kingdoms of the earth and has appointed me to build him a temple in Jerusalem, in Judah.’” (Ezra 1:1-2).

For acting on behalf of Yahweh, Cyrus is bestowed the title of God’s “Anointed” (Mashiah) in Isaiah 45:1.

“Thus says Yahweh to his anointed one, to Cyrus whom, he says, I have grasped by his right hand, to make the nations bow before him and to disarm kings: […] It is for the sake of my servant Jacob and of Israel my chosen one, that I have called you by your name, have given you a title though you do not know me. […] Though you do not know me, I have armed you.” (Isaiah 45:1-5)

A succeeding Persian emperor, Darius, confirmed Cyrus’ edict, authorizing the rebuilding of the Temple, and ordering gigantic burnt offerings financed by “the royal revenue.” Anyone resisting the new theocratic power backed by Persia, “a beam is to be torn from his house, he is to be impaled on it and his house is to be reduced to a rubbish-heap for his offense” (Ezra 6:11).

Then another Persian king, Artaxerxes, is supposed to have granted Ezra authority to lead “all members of the people of Israel in my kingdom, including their priests and Levites, who freely choose to go to Jerusalem,” and to rule over “the whole people of Trans-Euphrates [district encompassing all territories West to the Euphrates]” (7:11-26). In 458 BCE, the priest Ezra went from Babylon to Jerusalem, accompanied by some 1,500 followers.


Carrying with him the newly redacted Torah, Ezra called himself the “Secretary of the Law of the God of heaven” (7:21). He was soon joined by Nehemiah, a Persian court official of Judean origin.

The edicts of Cyrus, Darius and Artaxerxes are fake. No historian believe them authentic. But the the tale of Persian kings granting to a clan of wealthy Levites legal authority for establishing a theocratic semi-autonomous state in Palestine sounds historical. What did these proto-Zionists give the Persian kings in return? The Bible does not say, but historians believe that the Judeans exiles in Babylon had won the favor of the Persians by conspiring to help them conquer the city.

What is of interest in this biblical narrative is the blueprint for the Zionist strategy of influencing the Empire’s foreign policy for its own advantage. In the late 19th century, the empire was British. Its foreign policy in the Middle East was largely shaped by Prime Minister Benjamin Disraeli. Born in a family of Marranos converted back to Judaism in Venice, Disraeli can be considered a forerunner of Zionism, since, well before Theodor Herzl, he tried to include the “restoration of Israel” in the Berlin Congress’ agenda, and hoped to convince the Ottoman Sultan to concede to Palestine as an autonomous Jewish province.

He failed, but succeeded in putting the Suez Canal under British control, through funding from his friend Lionel Rothschild (an operation which also consolidated the Rothschilds’ control over the Bank of England). That was the first step in binding British interest and fate to the Middle-East. In short, Disraeli was a modern-day Ezra or Nehemiah, capable of steering the Empire’s policy according to the Jewish agenda of the conquest of Palestine, a dream he had cherished ever since his first trip to Palestine in 1830, at the age of 26, and which he had expressed through the hero of his first novel, The Wondrous Tale of Alroy:

“My wish is a national existence which we have not. My wish is the Land of Promise and Jerusalem and the Temple, all we forfeited, all we have yearned after, all for which we have fought, our beauteous country, our holy creed, our simple manners, and our ancient customs.”

A quarter of a century after Disraeli, Theodor Herzl also failed to convince the Sultan. It therefore became necessary that the Ottoman Empire disappear and the cards be redistributed. Zionists then played the British against the Ottomans and, by means now well-documented, obtained from the former the Balfour Declaration (in fact a mere letter addressed by Secretary of State Arthur Balfour to Lord Lionel Walter Rothschild).

But when the British started to limit Jewish immigration in Palestine in the 1930s, the Zionists turned to the rising new Imperial power: the United States. Today, the stranglehold of Zionists on US imperial policy is such that a few Jewish neocons can pull the US into a series of wars against Israel’s enemies with a single false flag attack.

The capacity of Israel to hijack the Empire’s foreign and military policy requires that a substantial Jewish elite remain in the US. Even Israel’s survival is entirely dependent on the influence of the Zionist power complex in the United States (euphemistically called the “pro-Israel lobby”). That is also a lesson learnt from Ezra and Nehemiah’s time: Nehemiah himself retained his principal residence in Babylone and, for centuries after, the kingdom of Israel was virtually ruled by the Babylonian exiles.

After the destruction of Jerusalem by the Romans, Babylon remained the center of universal Judaism. The comparison was made by Jacob Neusner in A History of the Jews in Babylonia(1965), and by Max Dimont in Jews, God and History (1962). The American Jews who prefer to remain in the United States rather than emigrating to Israel are, Dimont argued, as essential to the community as the Babylonian Jews who declined the invitation to return to Palestine in the Persian era:

“Today, as once before, we have both an independent State of Israel and the Diaspora. But, as in the past, the State of Israel today is a citadel of Judaism, a haven of refuge, the center of Jewish nationalism where dwell only two million of the world’s twelve million Jews. The Diaspora, although it has shifted its center through the ages with the rise and fall of civilizations, still remains the universal soul of Judaism.”

Conclusion

In the words of the Zionists themselves, including Herzl himself, Zionism was supposed to be the “final solution” to the Jewish question. In 1947, the whole world hoped that it would be, except for Arab leaders who warned against it. But Israel’s existence has only resulted in changing the “Jewish question” into the “Zionist question”: the question about the true ambitions of Israel. Part of the answer is to be found in the Hebrew Bible. The Zionist question is the Biblical question. Zionists themselves tell us so. Their mouths are full of the Bible.

On March 3, 2015, Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu dramatized in front of the American Congress his deep phobia of Iran by referring to the biblical Book of Esther (the only Bible story that makes no mention of God, incidently). It is worth quoting the heart of his rhetorical appeal to a US strike against Iran:

“We’re an ancient people. In our nearly 4,000 years of history, many have tried repeatedly to destroy the Jewish people. Tomorrow night, on the Jewish holiday of Purim, we’ll read the Book of Esther. We’ll read of a powerful Persian viceroy named Haman, who plotted to destroy the Jewish people some 2,500 years ago.

But a courageous Jewish woman, Queen Esther, exposed the plot and gave for the Jewish people the right to defend themselves against their enemies. The plot was foiled. Our people were saved. Today the Jewish people face another attempt by yet another Persian potentate to destroy us.”

Netanyahu managed to schedule his address to the Congress on the eve of Purim, which celebrates the happy end of the Book of Esther — the slaughter of 75,000 Persians, women and children included. This typical speech by the head of the State of Israel is clear indication that the behavior of that nation on the international scene cannot be understood without a deep inquiry into the Bible’s underlying ideology. Such is the main objective of my new book, From Yahweh to Zion: Jealous God, Chosen People, Promised Land … Clash of Civilizations, translated by Kevin Barrett.

May those who still want to believe that Zionism has nothing to do with the Bible think twice. Even the nuclear policy of Israel has a biblical name: the Samson Option. And let them read the Prophets:

“And this is the plague with which Yahweh will strike all the nations who have fought against Jerusalem; their flesh will rot while they are still standing on their feet; their eyes will rot in their sockets; their tongues will rot in their mouths.” (Zechariah 14:12)
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Lucas88
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Re: Christianity vs Atheism vs Spirituality

Post by Lucas88 »

Cornfed wrote:
July 27th, 2022, 5:51 am
Pixel--Dude wrote:
July 27th, 2022, 5:12 am
No. What I am saying is that Yahweh offered Jesus up as a sacrifice to atone for his own wrong doings. I am suggesting Yahweh made a sacrifice to humanity for his own sins. And that is why the teachings of Jesus are so focused on forgiveness.
Clearly this is not the Christian perspective as God is the infallible creator and so has nothing to atone for. It is entirely something you have made up for some reason. The idea that Jesus is somewhat literally the son of God is called the Arian heresy and has been long since dealt with.
I don't even see any point of such a discussion concerning the interpretational minutiae of the Christian doctrine of atonement or the supposed heresy of Arianism (not to be confused with "Aryanism" :lol: ). None of Christianity's core theological doctrines including atonement through Jesus' blood sacrifice, salvation by faith and the purported resurrection of the faithful at the end of time have any experiential or empirical basis in reality. They are nothing more than abstract concepts which only have guaranteed existence in the collective imagination of believers. So all of this talk about the meaning of the Nazarene's sacrifice and which interpretations are orthodox and which are heresy amount to nothing more than mental masturbation about ideas made up by someone else. I'm not trying to be rude or offend anybody's faith but it's true.

Religion is just dogma and subjective interpretations of dogma. Spirituality on the other hand is more fundamental and can be experienced directly. Many people experience paranormal phenomena and the supernatural without belief in any particular religion. Eastern philosophies include practices for the cultivation of the body's qi, the activation of psychic faculties and spiritual development. All of this can be experienced directly. But Christianity and other similar religions with their theological abstractions, baseless dogmas and blind faith haven't been able to offer reasonable answers to thinking people. Moreover, they have only served to push more and more rationally minded people towards atheism and agnosticism and thereby alienate them from any kind of authentic spirituality. I remember that @Tsar adequately made this same point earlier in the thread.

The Jewish hoax slave religion of Christianity is no longer a force to be reckoned with in Europe and it has very little appeal to many Europeans today. The alien faith doesn't resonate with our European soul. Europeans need a better, worthier form of spirituality in order to counteract the tide of nihilistic atheistic materialism. Christianity is obviously not up to the task.
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Cornfed
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Re: Christianity vs Atheism vs Spirituality

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Lucas88 wrote:
July 27th, 2022, 11:21 am
Cornfed wrote:
July 27th, 2022, 5:51 am
Pixel--Dude wrote:
July 27th, 2022, 5:12 am
No. What I am saying is that Yahweh offered Jesus up as a sacrifice to atone for his own wrong doings. I am suggesting Yahweh made a sacrifice to humanity for his own sins. And that is why the teachings of Jesus are so focused on forgiveness.
Clearly this is not the Christian perspective as God is the infallible creator and so has nothing to atone for. It is entirely something you have made up for some reason. The idea that Jesus is somewhat literally the son of God is called the Arian heresy and has been long since dealt with.
I don't even see any point of such a discussion concerning the interpretational minutiae of the Christian doctrine of atonement or the supposed heresy of Arianism (not to be confused with "Aryanism" :lol: ). None of Christianity's core theological doctrines including atonement through Jesus' blood sacrifice, salvation by faith and the purported resurrection of the faithful at the end of time have any experiential or empirical basis in reality. They are nothing more than abstract concepts which only have guaranteed existence in the collective imagination of believers. So all of this talk about the meaning of the Nazarene's sacrifice and which interpretations are orthodox and which are heresy amount to nothing more than mental masturbation about ideas made up by someone else. I'm not trying to be rude or offend anybody's faith but it's true.
Why make up stuff related to it then? On the subject of empirical evidence, why do you think the death and resurrection of Jesus has less evidence to back it that other historical events.
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Re: Christianity vs Atheism vs Spirituality

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Cornfed wrote:
July 27th, 2022, 11:39 am
Why make up stuff related to it then?
Control. Religions are a source of power for the priestly castes and political elites which promote them. Their priests and theologians have a very strong motive to make up false doctrines and attempt to convince others that they are true. This is especially true of Jews who have a long history of dishonesty and subversion.
Cornfed wrote:
July 27th, 2022, 11:39 am
On the subject of empirical evidence, why do you think the death and resurrection of Jesus has less evidence to back it that other historical events.
We're not simply talking about the alleged death and resurrection of Jesus described in the Gospels. The matter goes much deeper than that. To be a Christian you have to believe that Jesus' supposed blood sacrifice on the cross served as some kind of mechanism of atonement for the "sins" of believers and that faith in this same supposed sacrifice will grant the faithful eternal life on Yahweh's supposed New Earth after the purported resurrection at the end of time. None of this has any experiential or empirical basis in reality. Nobody has any substantial reason to believe that any of these things are really happening or will ever happen. Christians believe in these doctrines simply because they want them to be true.
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Re: Christianity vs Atheism vs Spirituality

Post by Cornfed »

Lucas88 wrote:
July 27th, 2022, 2:36 pm
Cornfed wrote:
July 27th, 2022, 11:39 am
Why make up stuff related to it then?
Control. Religions are a source of power for the priestly castes and political elites which promote them.
I mean why are you making stuff up about it. Where abouts in Christian theology is there anything supporting what you are talking about?
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Re: Christianity vs Atheism vs Spirituality

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Hey guys. Thought I would update this thread since conversation seems to have come to an end. We discussed Christianity at length over the last few posts so now I thought we could discuss Spirituality a bit. The members of the forum who are more into Spirituality such as @Lucas88 and @Tsar and myself can tell you guys what we think and this time @MrMan, @Outcast9428 and @Cornfed can ask stuff about our belief system or criticise it if they want, whichever they feel is more appropriate.

I'll kick off with the basics. Spirituality is different to both Atheism and Christianity. It elevates the individual to the position of potential god rather than an accidental spawn of some primordial soup or a servant to an authoritarian god. Although proponents of spirituality do have their own gods and goddesses with which we hold in reverence.

Unlike Christianity, a religion for the collective with set doctrines and rules, Spirituality is more about the individual. It is about expanding your own consciousness and general growth of one's self. It is the purpose of everything to grow and flourish and the human soul is no different.

Unlike Atheism, which is a belief system that reduces the human being to a biological machine and consciousness is nothing but a series of chemical reactions in the brain, Spirituality is a belief system for those who recognise that the human body is nothing more than a vessel for our soul to experience and navigate the material world so that we may grow through those experiences.

I personally have a conception of a creator god similar to the Hindu Brahman, which is the ultimate underlying reality. In the west the Gnostics called this being the All. The All/Brahaman isn't the perfect creator Yahweh claims to be, rather Brahman is experimental with their creation and seeks to grow itself through the experiences of its individuated units of consciousness (human beings and other lifeforms) which are known as the Atman (The Self). Although Brahman is not perfect, it still is very intelligent and artistic with its creation, leaving its fingerprint on all things it creates as we can see with the Golden Ratio etc.

If we all accept that the global elites are agents of evil for whatever reason then we have to ask the question of why is the Bible and all knowledge of it not suppressed? Why is it pushed on kids at a young age alongside the materialist scientific cosmological model? Both Christianity and Atheism are the two prevailing doctrines in the West which are institutionalised and ready for people to accept. Spirituality and anything related to the occult is dismissed as evil and obscured. Why is that?

Another thing I believe, and Lucas88 shares this belief, is that life is prolific throughout the cosmos. Look at some of the most inhospitable places on Earth and you will find life surviving there somehow. We believe there is life on other planets out there such as Orion.

The story of Enki and humanity is one of the oldest stories ever written by man which predates the bible by thousands of years. In fact, the Bible directly copies several themes from this ancient Mesopotamian mythology. However, the account of Zacariah Sitchin is not to be believed, as he's a self proclaimed Jew and part of the NWO.

Sitchin, who has supposedly studied the clay tablets in their entirety (which I can't see how as many are either destroyed or illegible.) claims the Annunaki, as they were known, created humanity for the purpose of mining gold in place of the Igigi or lesser gods. This is an erroneous claim however, as there is very little enthesis on mining gold in the Sumerian cuneiform tablets. Sitchin is a liar.

The real story, which is told throughout every ancient culture and even plagiarised in the Bible, tells a story of Enki teaching mankind the secrets of heaven and earth so that humanity can raise her kundalini (something Lucas88 has direct experience with) and eventually become as gods. Anu, the King of the Annunaki opposes Enki teaching mankind these forbidden secrets as he thinks mankind is unworthy and should only be as servile slaves. Anu is a direct parallel of Yahweh, who pins all his evil tyrannical deeds on Enki and slanders him as the devil or Satan. The roles of good and evil have been subverted.

I will let @Lucas88 go into more detail about this side of things as when we spoke in person he expressed interest in talking about the cosmological war between good and evil and the subversion of the roles as told in the Sumerian cuneiform tablets.

Another misconception about Enki and Enlil came from David Icke who popularised the Reptilian shapeshifter theory and even said Enki and Enlil were these reptilians. Which is another erroneous claim. The Sumerians made images of their gods, who closely resembled humanity and not Reptilian imposters.

And yes @flowerthief00 I believe in the Reptilian Overlords. 8)

Their origin is not David Icke, he simply made it popular. It originated with the Emerald Tablets from Thoth in Egypt, which served as the basis for the Hermetic faith in the West. In these tablets humanity is warned of shape shifting imposters who are malevolent in nature. The Reptilians. The Jews are their hybrid spawn who have been created to subvert and destroy the values of the old gods and turn the Gentiles into the servile beings Yahweh/El/Anu envisioned for us. I think this is why every Gentile nation has a natural aversion to the Jews. Everyone distrusts and hates them. Nobody likes them. Why is that? They are also the ones who have imprisoned us in their system of debt slavery. Yahweh's chosen people...

Pharoah Akanaten and Queen Nefertiti were most likely among the first Reptilian hybrids who infiltrated the culture of Ancient Egypt and tried to eradicate knowledge of the pantheon of Egyptian gods like Thot and bring about monotheism and worship of the one god Aten. But this is something the Egyptians vehemently opposed.
Just look how reptilian and demonic they were always represented.

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Later attempts were much more successful with the emergence of Christianity and Islam, the two who burned the library of Alexandria and murdered the gnostics and destroyed all knowledge of our occultic history. They sent us into the Dark Ages and now all knowledge of spirituality and the old gods has been forgotten. Now we are even turning our back on ALL notion of spirituality and the soul with the later emergence of Atheism and the religion of anti-religion. :roll:

Spirituality is now something which is seen as "quirky" or weird. People who identify as spiritual are often associated with the New Age movement, which promotes pacifism and weakness and other bullshit such as "The Secret" honestly what garbage! Have you heard of this @Winston? You seem to have knowledge of the New Age. I think the New Age is just a net which is set up to catch any stray spiritual seekers who have heard their true calling to Enki in a last ditch attempt to indoctrinate them with weak ideals.

True spirituality embraces the warrior spirit! Spiritual people know that we must fight for freedom and only through violent struggle can our freedom be won and noble values be imposed by a spiritual and noble aristocracy. Only fags believe in all that peace and love bullshit and expect passivity and weakness to bring about meaningful change which benefits everyone!

I've also had several experiences with both mediumship and psilocybin mushrooms which provides an experiential aspect to spirituality. I will go into more detail about sacred plants and occultism in a later post. Give everyone a chance to have a say on what's here so far and let Lucas88 have his say and Tsar as well. Look forward to seeing what the Christians think.
You are free to make any decision you desire, but you are not free from the consequences of those decisions.
david14433
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Re: Christianity vs Atheism vs Spirituality

Post by david14433 »

Psychedelics are the best religion right now, hands down. You can take a full blown atheist give them DMT and they will at least seriously reconsider spirituality and God if not fully embrace it. My brother was an atheist for the longest but his fasination with consciousness eventually turned him agnostic. And psychedelics highlight consciousness.
galii
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Re: Christianity vs Atheism vs Spirituality

Post by galii »

david14433 wrote:
August 13th, 2022, 11:53 am
Psychedelics are the best religion right now, hands down. You can take a full blown atheist give them DMT and they will at least seriously reconsider spirituality and God if not fully embrace it. My brother was an atheist for the longest but his fasination with consciousness eventually turned him agnostic. And psychedelics highlight consciousness.
I think I am kind of ready for psychedelics but here where I am there is no easy way to get it. So I will try to figure out a way I guess.

Outcast9428
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Re: Christianity vs Atheism vs Spirituality

Post by Outcast9428 »

@Pixel--Dude

You can't just ban the bible without causing an enormous shitstorm of controversy. The elites haven't even tried to ban books like Mein Kampf much less are they going to ban a book that's in most American households and try to destroy a religion practiced by 70% of the American population overnight. The neo-bolsheviks are much sneakier in their tactics then the old bolsheviks were.

What they have done, however, is do everything in their power to undermine authentic Christianity. They are putting drag queens in our churches, making the pope himself espouse woke ideology, make preachers emphasize "tolerance" instead of virtue and basically turning Christianity into a shadow of its former self. People trying to practice real Christianity get mocked in the media at best and are portrayed as nutty, crazy, or dangerous extremists at worst. The big buzzword in the media right now is "Christian nationalism."

The elites are definitely, EXTREMELY, threatened by us. The only reason why they haven't gone full Bolshevik on us is because they know it would backfire. I never see "spiritual but not religious people" really being focused on at all by the media. The media just kind of ignores them. I don't think the elites really care what religion people choose just as long as its not Christianity. To a lesser extent they're kind of hostile towards Islam too. They see Christianity as a weaker target probably and know the Muslims would chop their heads off if they tried to pull the same shit as they do in Christian countries.

My belief is that trying to become a god or viewing human beings as potential gods is extremely blasphemous and sinful. Yes God is our ruler but he is a just ruler. Human beings are inherently sinful and if they attempted to gain God's powers they would become evil and corrupted. Many men in the past have become obsessed with the idea of becoming gods and it never goes well. Hierarchy and authoritarianism is justified when the people who are lower on the hierarchy are not qualified for higher positions of responsibility. Just as a dog should show loyalty and faithfulness to a caring owner, human beings should show loyalty and faithfulness to our caring God. Not because a dog is inferior to a human being and "needs to obey" so to speak but because the human being genuinely has the dog's best interests in mind and is trying to create a good life for the dog. If the dog acts rebellious towards a kind owner, it only hurts the dog and the owner. In many ways, human beings have a similar relationship with God as dogs have with human beings. By rebelling against God we are not helping anyone. We are harming both God and ourselves. God doesn't ask us to obey because he considers us to be inferior creatures worthy of subjugation who he can toy around with and mess with, but because he is trying his best to give us the best life he can and we are not qualified for the amount of power and responsibility that God has. It would corrupt us and any human being given such powers would become evil. Human beings have enough trouble as it is just ruling countries without becoming evil, imagine ruling an entire universe.

Spirituality is about becoming closer to God, learning how to listen for his messages, figuring out how to communicate with him and recognize his method of communication. The more that a man or woman purges themself of sin, the closer they'll come to God and the easier of a time they'll have understanding him and what his plan is for us.
Tsar
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Re: Christianity vs Atheism vs Spirituality

Post by Tsar »

@Pixel--Dude @Lucas88

I think that spirituality is more of a threat because it was unnaturally wiped out across the world by Christianity and Islam. Buddhism replaced Asian paganism. The Bolshevik Lenin and Marxist Mao easily destroyed centralized religion.

There's no research into spirituality and spiritual concepts because people automatically believe in a religious path and believe that prayers or faith are the answer.

I don't see how that is any different than atheists.

Both claim their religion is correct, true, and nothing else could possibly be right.

Pagans were more likely to accept other spirituality concepts and religions because they weren't dogmatic.

Religious people cannot win arguments with using religious books. People in modern times cannot be persuaded with God orders it or tells you. It just doesn't work.

What really annoys some people is people who thank God for everything. Thank God for the bread, the sunny day, the nice weather, etc. Or they say all suffering is part of God's plan. That annoys me even more!

There is a contradiction:
The Abrahamic God cannot have created us in his image
We cannot become gods in the afterlife

The Abrahamic God loves us
Yet he gives pain and suffering as part of his plan

He has a Hell and allows believers to leave
All because He doesn't show himself for 2,000 years

All those contradictions

I am really annoyed when religious people use God as the cause, reason, answer, or justification for everything, then if they don't use that, it's all about the Devil or Satan because the cause of evil and suffering.

It's ways to accept Slave Values and Slave Life Circumstances in this life, instead of trying to create a heaven on earth.

I also don't believe in the binary afterlife of the Abrahamic Religions!

If I had a powerful weapon of mass destruction, I will use it to annihilate millions or even billions of people because I believe in the Warrior Spirit! My motive is to create a better world with good people and good leaders.

Holy War to defeat evil! If I had supreme power, I would need one month and our entire world would be unrecognizable!

Anyone who is realistic knows that violence must be done to be victorious!

Pacifists and people who think their Abrahamic God will save them or create peace on earth and people who believe in the inherent goodness of all humanity are weak, naive, ignorant, and will always be trampled because people without the ability to do righteous evil like violence against enemies if they had political power to do it without consequences but choose not to would be a slave because of their slave values.
I'm a visionary and a philosopher king 👑
galii
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Re: Christianity vs Atheism vs Spirituality

Post by galii »

It is hard to do the right thing. What is the right thing anyway. Sometimes I feel like a hero but sometimes I end up looking like Joffrey :mrgreen: :mrgreen: :mrgreen:

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Lucas88
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Re: Christianity vs Atheism vs Spirituality

Post by Lucas88 »

Pixel--Dude wrote:
August 13th, 2022, 8:42 am
I'll kick off with the basics. Spirituality is different to both Atheism and Christianity. It elevates the individual to the position of potential god rather than an accidental spawn of some primordial soup or a servant to an authoritarian god. Although proponents of spirituality do have their own gods and goddesses with which we hold in reverence.

Unlike Christianity, a religion for the collective with set doctrines and rules, Spirituality is more about the individual. It is about expanding your own consciousness and general growth of one's self. It is the purpose of everything to grow and flourish and the human soul is no different.

Unlike Atheism, which is a belief system that reduces the human being to a biological machine and consciousness is nothing but a series of chemical reactions in the brain, Spirituality is a belief system for those who recognise that the human body is nothing more than a vessel for our soul to experience and navigate the material world so that we may grow through those experiences.
I agree with your observation that religion and spirituality are fundamentally different. We've already touched on this earlier in the thread. Religion -- e.g., Christianity or Islam -- consists of fixed dogmas which are unexperienceable and unverifiable and must therefore be accepted on faith whereas spirituality without religion is simply a recognition of deeper, more occult levels of reality and may involve an open-ended exploration of the paranormal/nonphysical without fixed ideological assumptions. This is the fundamental difference which separates the two.

Christian fundamentalists for example assert that human beings are born into sin but that believers may be redeemed from the supposed wages of sin (i.e., death and hell) through faith in the blood sacrifice of Yahweh's firstborn son Jesus and will be resurrected into the "New Earth" at the end of time; however, as I've explained before, none of these things can be experienced or verified -- not even by believers -- and merely constitute abstract concepts which exist in the collective imagination of theologians and churchgoers. Any thinking rational person has absolutely no reason to believe that any of this stuff is really happening since it has no empirical or experiential basis. Christianity's core theological doctrines have no foundation at all in the real world. There's really no reason to believe in that religion other than a desire to do so or a personal affinity to its belief system. But a personal affinity doesn't equal truth.

Spiritual people on the other hand may experience deeper, more occult levels of reality and things that are generally regarded as supernatural or outside of immediate material reality such as qi phenomena, Kundalini, distance healing, encounters with nonphysical entities, or a near-death experience with veridical perception and come to the conclusion that such things exist and are part of a much greater spiritual realm or the creation of some greater intelligence, but without limiting ourselves to dogmatic and unempirical doctrines. I myself have had direct experience of qi phenomena and Kundalini (albeit the latter in a very negative context) as well as distance healing and a few other paranormal phenomena but I'm not forced to interpret them through a fixed ideological prism like Christians are. Rather my conception of spirituality and the deeper, more occult levels of reality is open-ended and able to accommodate new data and experiences. I believe that this kind of approach is much healthier than the closed dogmatism of organized religion.

Religious fundamentalists often criticize the spiritual-be-not-religious types like ourselves as people without consistency or otherwise assert that we simply wish to deny Christian doctrine in order to justify our participation in "sin" but this is just them projecting their own preconceived cultural notions onto others. What they fail to recognize is that some of us have a high level of conscientiousness and value truth and the open-ended investigation of reality and therefore cannot simply accept baseless dogmas just because they are popular with society or a certain community.

As for atheism, I observe that it works in a way that is very similar to that of organized religion. Like Christianity or Islam, the modern atheistic worldview is also a closed dogmatic ideology and is based on nothing more than abstract assumptions despite all of the tubthumping on the part of proponents of scientism about it supposedly being scientific. I could go on for longer about this but it would simply mirror what I've already written about organized religion.

That's all for now. I'll come back later to talk about some other points.
MrMan
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Re: Christianity vs Atheism vs Spirituality

Post by MrMan »

Lucas88 wrote:
August 14th, 2022, 11:36 am
I agree with your observation that religion and spirituality are fundamentally different. We've already touched on this earlier in the thread. Religion -- e.g., Christianity or Islam -- consists of fixed dogmas which are unexperienceable and unverifiable and must therefore be accepted on faith whereas spirituality without religion is simply a recognition of deeper, more occult levels of reality and may involve an open-ended exploration of the paranormal/nonphysical without fixed ideological assumptions. This is the fundamental difference which separates the two.
It's probably more of a case of modern occultists picking and choosing from polytheistic and ancient occultic practices that were dogmatic back in the day. Modern occultists, like New Agers, can pick and choose ideas from different religions. The historical sources might have been dogmatic and regimented.
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