Tsar wrote: ↑July 19th, 2022, 5:12 am
MrMan wrote: ↑July 18th, 2022, 10:59 pm
Tsar wrote: ↑July 18th, 2022, 11:35 am
2. The Modus Operandi of deities doesn't completely change.
Not sure what point you are trying to make. But throughout the Bible, God has agents do things and involved them in His plans, angels, humans, etc. He doesn't just do everything Himself, like you see to think he must do.
That is a contradiction. If someone whether a human or a god, was omnipotent and omniscient, they can be everywhere and do everything at once, and already know everything that happens. Sending lesser beings would be ineffective and slow down everything and lesser beings aren't as powerful.
There is not a contradiction. If one is omnipotent and cannot do what he wants, that would be a contradiction. If God is omnipotent and does not do everything the way _you_ think He should, there is no contradiction.
Something to keep in mind is that omniscient, omnipotent, and omnipresent are terms theologians came up with over the centuries. They aren't terms out of the Bible. The Bible says many things about God's great power and that God is the creator. Later theologians use terms like 'omipotent.' David says the following:
Psalm 139
7 Where can I go from Your Spirit?
Or where can I flee from Your presence?
8 If I ascend into heaven, You are there;
If I make my bed in [c]hell, behold, You are there.
9 If I take the wings of the morning,
And dwell in the uttermost parts of the sea,
10 Even there Your hand shall lead me,
And Your right hand shall hold me.
The theologian says that and says 'omnipresent', even though the Bible doesn't exactly say that.
Then, of course, there are smart alecks who say, 'Can God make a rock so heavy He can't lift it?' This has to do with the inherent logical contradiction of whether someone who is omnipotent can do self-contradictory things. The question doesn't have anything to do with God or the Bible. 'Omnipotent' is not in the Bible, not in any translation I have seen. There are many verses about God's power.
I never said a deity had to do everything themselves but then, if there's a contradiction in omnipotence and omniscience, then a deity isn't omnipotent. An omniscient being would need servants to help. But not an omnipotent being.
God create intelligent beings and involves them in the things He does, both humans and angels and whatever other type of intelligent being He chooses to include. You aren't showing a contradiction. You are assuming God would do things in accordance with the way you think, just do everything yourself. Your assuming if God has angels and people do things, that He must __ need__ help.
Also, if a being was omniscient, there wouldn't have been a rebellion. No deity would just sit back and let a rebellion happen without stopping it before the damage has been done.
How do you know? Have you ever been a deity? I know you made some boasts on here with such claims, followed a little later with discussions of health concerns, financial woes, issues finding women (which are human problems).
One philosopher answer the question of the problem of God and evil in the world by saying God could allow evil if He has a good reason. That's a good answer. We do not know everything, or the reasons.
But I would point out you are getting hung up on the terminology created by later theologians-- all the omnis, rather than the specific things God actually revealed about Him self through prophetic utterances He gave to prophets or the teachings of Jesus.
Also, is God male or sexless? Because it is true that Christianity is a patriarchal religion but it isn't practical for a male being who has never encountered a female to create females. Why do most religions have female deities but Christianity doesn't? Everything in nature has an opposite to balance it out or it's sexless or both.
God is revealed as Father. Why would God have trouble figuring out how to make a woman.
One man Adam, one woman Eve, implies humanity has incestuous origins because the offspring wouldn't have anyone else of differing genetics, and then that implies that somehow, all the different races evolved from those original people. No offense but that's one of the most unbelievable parts of the Bible, but it's basic biology and science. That's basically as fictional as atheists saying people evolved from monkeys.
There is a 'genetic Eve' in our prehistory that we are all descended from. God gave laws against incest at Mt. Sinai and this was before that. Another interpretation of Genesis is that God made mankind, and then He made Adam in the garden and formed Eve from her. God had breathed the breath of life into Adam. That would give Cain and Able the opportunity for wives were were not related.
Another fact about Abrahamic religions is that Lilith was Adam's first wife.
I believe that story is found in Jewish writings from around 300 to 500 AD. The word translated 'lilith' shows up in Isaiah 44:14, a 'night creature' in a list of other animals. Over time, maybe from Babylonian influence, some Jews began to have legends about a dangerous spirit, the wife of Adam story. Lilith is not a part of Christian belief. It's not mainstream Islam. It's a late Jewish legend.
then Yahweh supposedly created Eve from Adam's rib? I guess that means they are identical in genetics except for being different in sex. Which then implies a more asexual and incestuous origin to humanity if Eve was created by Adam's rib.
If God can create DNA from dirt, you don't think he can change DNA in a rib?
Then the flood myth where 2 of every animal was gathered and saved. That is also impossible and unfeasible both in ancient times and in modern times. There's no way for it to repopulate and many populations need much more than 2, and again it implies an incestuous repopulation.
Two of some, and seven of others. Rangers and dog breeders breed brothers and sisters together for multiple generations and they can grow populations that way.
I am also not convinced the wording of Genesis requires a global flood. In some contexts 'ha-eretz' is translated 'the land' and refers to the land of Israel. In other contexts, it is translated 'the earth.'
What is 'spirituality' by this definition-- some sort of interaction with a demon?
Interaction with demons is not spiritual. They are spirits, but witchcraft is a work of the flesh, so why would interacting with demons be spiritual.
Instead of defending Yahweh or Religion, which Yahweh is just a God of Jews who gained Goyim followers, and Religion is a centralized path with a leader as the spiritual authority, it's best to stop defending them.
I wonder if focusing on your disdain for the Jews led you to betray and reject Christ. God created the earth and mankind, but after Babel, he apportioned them to others. He took Abraham and later Israel as His inheritance, his portion. He promised Abraham that through him all the nations of the earth would be blessed. He told the Messiah, "Ask of Me, and I will give you the nations for your inheritance." After Christ ascended, He told His apostles that all authority had been given to Him in heaven and on earth. All nations now must submit to Christ.
@Pixel--Dude pointed out the time it took Yahweh to make all of creation, which implies Yahweh was bound by time constraints but if heaven exists outside of space-time then that is a contradiction, but if time exists in heaven, then god isn't a timeless deity present since the very beginning of time. Time is a human construct and it moves differently in other places of the universe.
I don't see where the Bible addresses the idea of God existing outside time or heaven being outside time. That is something some Christian philosophers and theologians, professional or lay, have asserted. Another approach to the issue is called 'divine time'-- the idea that time is almost like an aspect of God's being that we tap into or experience.
Also, if people were spiritual beings, we would experience things differently than we do in our material existence.
How would you know that? What set of experiences do you use as a frame of reference for this statement? When have you switched from being a nonspiritual to a spiritual being to experience the difference?
Another fact is that the existence of one god doesn't mean that other gods don't exist. Mutual exclusivity isn't a spiritual truth.
Other entities that people call 'gods' exist. The Bible teaches that. Paul even wrote in I Corinthians 8, 'For though there be that are called gods in heaven and on earth, we know that there is but one God.' I think we all agree that Pharaohs and Caesar Augustus existed. Some people considered them to be gods.
But now, God requires all men to repent of idolatry.